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Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2007.11.14 21:48:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: MingRan
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
trading guns for bigger drones is unreasonable.



Nope, it`s choosing a playstyle.




nice point actually, maybe instead of introducing a fixed 3 turret 125Mbit myrm a highslot module that increases bandwith (20Mbit?) would be the better way.... more flexibility.. YAY!

MingRan
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.14 22:00:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa

nice point actually, maybe instead of introducing a fixed 3 turret 125Mbit myrm a highslot module that increases bandwith (20Mbit?) would be the better way.... more flexibility.. YAY!


Now that`s a idea I kinda like :)
Should have mentioned it in this thread.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.11.14 22:31:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
Im sick of seeing the "full rack of neutron IIs and 3 magstabs" EFT setups.

1. You have 3 lows to fit tank. You cant passive shield tank it anyway, since you are using hybrids which eat cap.
2. You have exactly 250CPU and 300 grid to fit MWD, cap booster, web/scram... Even if you have a dedicated tackler, you need MWD and CBII, and you cant fit them.

It is a completely pointless setup, usable only to "prove" uber DPS of Gallente ships.


This is different from a harbinger how?Rolling Eyes

Oh and downgrade to ions and you lose maybe 8% dps and have the ability to fit mwd, injector, and dual mar tank. Downgrade to focused medium pulse and you lose like 18% damage and still cant tank nearly as well as the myrm.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.14 22:31:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 15/11/2007 00:33:33
I really like the replies to my OP. They're really funny to read.

I made the suggestion because appearantly the devs don't want the Myrm to be a drone boat. Yes, I KNOW we already have a (sort of) blaster boat with the Brutix, but quite frankly, it's a barely overgrown Thorax, and can't compete at all with the majority of other BCs, but then again, it's a Tier 1, not a Tier 2.

The Myrmidon has no focus. It has half it's DPS in drones, and half in guns. this makes it inefficient. You have to run blasters to get some DPS out of it, gun wise, yet it has no gun damage bonus, so you spend a LOT of cap for that extra 50% DPS (of it's total damage output). Not to mention all the other limitations of range/tracking etc.

75mbit of bandwidth isn't enough to use drones as the primary DPS, and keep the guns as a secondary system. 6x unbonused guns isn't enough DPS to make it a primary weapon system either. With the Myrm, you *have* to use both in order for it to be worthwhile, and this symmetry of DPS is what makes it unfocused and unworkable.

7.5% damage per level? It only has 6 guns. If it were to be a gunship, and Tier 2 at that, I'd expect it to have more gun DPS than a Brutix with BC5.

Everyone keeps quoting all these theoretical peak DPS numbers from EFT, and have no clue as to how the actual effective combat DPS ends up in application. If I want to fight at 20-30km with my drones, I can't apply any of my "OMG IT'S OVERPOWERED" blaster DPS. In actuality, unless the target is sitting at 1-2km, very little of the theoretical maximum DPS is realized.

Now due to the changes, I can't really fit a Myrm with rails or artillery, or autocannons, or anything else except blasters, as the drone DPS is so poor that if I go away from anything but the absolute maximum DPS guns I can fit, I don't get anywhere near the DPS needed to compete.

Bishop 5
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.14 22:42:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I really like the replies to my OP. They're really funny to read.

I made the suggestion because appearantly the devs don't want the Myrm to be a drone boat. Yes, I KNOW we already have a (sort of) blaster boat with the Brutix, but quite frankly, it's a barely overgrown Thorax, and can't compete at all with the majority of other BCs, but then again, it's a Tier 1, not a Tier 2.

The Myrmidon has no focus. It has half it's DPS in drones, and half in guns. this makes it ineffient. You have to run blasters to get some DPS out of it, gun wise, yet it has no gun damage bonus, so you spend a LOT of cap for that extra 50% DPS (of it's total damage output). Not to mention all the other limitations of range/tracking etc.

75mbit of bandwidth isn't enough to use drones as the primary DPS, and keep the guns as a secondary system. 6x unbonused guns isn't enough DPS to make it a primary weapon system either. With the Myrm, you *have* to use both in order for it to be worthwhile, and this symmetry of DPS is what makes it unfocused and unworkable.

7.5% damage per level? It only has 6 guns. If it were to be a gunship, and Tier 2 at that, I'd expect it to have more gun DPS than a Brutix with BC5.

Everyone keeps quoting all these theoretical peak DPS numbers from EFT, and have no clue as to how the actual effective combat DPS ends up in application. If I want to fight at 20-30km with my drones, I can't apply any of my "OMG IT'S OVERPOWERED" blaster DPS. In actuality, unless the target is sitting at 1-2km, very little of the theoretical maximum DPS is realized.

Now due to the changes, I can't really fit a Myrm with rails or artillery, or autocannons, or anything else except blasters, as the drone DPS is so poor that if I go away from anything but the absolute maximum DPS guns I can fit, I don't get anywhere near the DPS needed to compete.


The Devs don't play EVE anymore, they're too busy using EFT to decide what to nerf next, obviously. Sad


Tesal
Posted - 2007.11.15 01:11:00 - [36]
 

What about PvE? Nobody is talking about PvE for Gallente BC.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.15 02:36:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tesal
What about PvE? Nobody is talking about PvE for Gallente BC.


yeah, Myrm gets ruined for PVE doesn't it? Losing all that DPS from sentry drones. Be lucky you don't fly an Eos and lose a mid for shield tanks.

Cha Jeng
SOSUS Corporation
Posted - 2007.11.15 02:49:00 - [38]
 

Everyone wants the ship that automatically wins. The Myr was never all that great to begin with, and having extra drone space is always a good thing. 125mb and 250m3 drone bay? Sounds overpowered to me. 2 heavy 2 med and 1 small drone along with guns do very respectable dps, and having a variety of drones is a good thing as opposed to what all the dps freaks out there think.

Fly an ishtar if you want a smaller ship that uses heavies, it is better anyway.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.15 03:18:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cha Jeng
Everyone wants the ship that automatically wins. The Myr was never all that great to begin with, and having extra drone space is always a good thing. 125mb and 250m3 drone bay? Sounds overpowered to me. 2 heavy 2 med and 1 small drone along with guns do very respectable dps, and having a variety of drones is a good thing as opposed to what all the dps freaks out there think.

Fly an ishtar if you want a smaller ship that uses heavies, it is better anyway.


And 3x the cost. Not to mention the SP requirements.

Rabbitual Ferrier
Posted - 2007.11.15 22:39:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Buyerr
drones have always been a secondary weaponry, which have taken overhand, your not suppose to ONLY use drones.
if you use blaster+drones gallente get the most insane dps,
any one trying to kill of all the drones on a blaster+drone ship especially a ship as the myrm will either 1:be able to kill it very fast without killing the drones or 2: be dead because of the time it takes to finish of all those drones.

so stop whining and realize the balance.


Well there is another point that Gallente Drone ships tend to have much lower armour and shield levels, so getting in close isn't exactly the best plan (let alone the Cap usage when your running blasters, MWD and reppers).

Any blastership is always going to do insane damage if it gets in close. But if you're over 2500m away the dps slacks off rapidly.

The other option is pee-shooter hybrids (good range poor damage)

Gallente primary weapon of utility are drones (standard weapon with decent all round capability), but on Drone Boats they are the primary weapon of choice.

What you should be doing is accellerating away and shooting at the drones whilst you do it.


Lilane
Gallente
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2007.11.15 23:56:00 - [41]
 

I pretty sure this have already been sugested BUT some kind of "balanced" setting could be reducing the Gun slots to something like 4 AND having Bdwth/Bay like 100/200?

I just feel from the begining (ie that means from the firs time the Myrmidion ever flew on Sisi) that 4 Heavy Drone at a time is just what this ship needs to have a BC-Like fire power without being overated nor meaningless.

DJTheBaron
Caldari
FinFleet
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.11.16 02:06:00 - [42]
 

bc tend to have 25% more firepower than their cruiser counterparts with twice the tank, the myr seems to get more tank and more midslots but less damage, perhaps improving drone modification modules or giving it a boost to the drone enhancement modules by role due to its array of mid slots


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