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Atherin Gaius
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.27 20:36:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal


OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more.


Ok all that statement did was fuel more speculation about you and what happened.

Don't you think that since it was our isk that went up in flames we should probably know what happened, IN DETAIL?

You've been pretty good at communication since the incident other than about the incident.

Email all the shareholders or something with the info, including who, when and where; so that we can form our own decisions about what we want to do next.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2007.11.27 20:58:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: Atherin Gaius
Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal


OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more.


Ok all that statement did was fuel more speculation about you and what happened.

Don't you think that since it was our isk that went up in flames we should probably know what happened, IN DETAIL?

You've been pretty good at communication since the incident other than about the incident.

Email all the shareholders or something with the info, including who, when and where; so that we can form our own decisions about what we want to do next.


yer i agree here
like who attacked you etc? I mean if you going to say i lost bpo's and i was ganked in shuttle and refuse to say then i see this another scam. Also i still think its weird to travel afk in a shuttle with 5 BPO. I mean with all the posts about people getting ganked. For some reason my gut feeling this just bull anyhow

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.27 21:31:00 - [183]
 

My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it.

It's just a guess though.

Corvac
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.27 21:34:00 - [184]
 

The guy isnt scamming, it was a guy in my alliance that killed him. (And he was very happy with the loot, I might add) Killboard links arent allowed on the forums AFAIK, but it should be easy enough to find if you really need proof.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.11.27 21:41:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Corvac
The guy isnt scamming, it was a guy in my alliance that killed him. (And he was very happy with the loot, I might add) Killboard links arent allowed on the forums AFAIK, but it should be easy enough to find if you really need proof.

Well I can attest to the fact that the route is often camped by sniggardly stealth bombers looking for easy kills and loot. Cheeky bugger even convoed me, after failing to pop me, to ask about my claw setup! (Yes I was afk, who cares?)

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.27 22:42:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it.

It's just a guess though.


Spot on, and now I can talk about it. I did not want to give details of a petition away before I had an answer. Unfortunately, it came back negative, irrespective of what happened to my client, so let's move on. I am finalising details, but this much, no shareholder will loose a single ISK, in fact, they will gain.

Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums.

Regards,

Bakimi aka Feyloan


Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.27 22:48:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal
Originally by: Shadarle
My speculation is that he has been waiting for CCP before replying. I would bet he filed a petition saying it was a client bug that caused him to crash... and he came back to a pod and lost BPO's. If this is the case he can get the lost ones back. But if this wasn't the case and he still filed the petition he wouldn't want to talk about it until they had refunded the BPO's. Though even if it really happened it is better to wait on CCP before you say anything about it.

It's just a guess though.


Spot on, and now I can talk about it. I did not want to give details of a petition away before I had an answer. Unfortunately, it came back negative, irrespective of what happened to my client, so let's move on. I am finalising details, but this much, no shareholder will loose a single ISK, in fact, they will gain.

Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums.

Regards,

Bakimi aka Feyloan





I sure hope you used the excuse that you crashed and thus wanted your stuff back, not that you had investors who were mad Razz

Herodian
Minmatar
Gladius Noctem
Posted - 2007.11.27 22:52:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal
Just for the record, anyone wanting the kill mail can have it, I will not post it on the forums.


Regards,

Bakimi aka Feyloan




For the record i do...
evemail me

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:08:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
I sure hope you used the excuse that you crashed and thus wanted your stuff back, not that you had investors who were mad Razz


In fact, I appealed to their logical sense before their emotional sense. Both failed. So, we tick that box, and move on as of now, plan is following this post.

Killmail has been sent by the way.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:32:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 28/11/2007 01:44:16
Dear Forums, Dear Shareholders,

Praetoria Holdings has obviously had a tough birth. Yes, I made a HUGE mistake, I am man enough to admit this. I do however counter any allegations of maltreating other people's isk as not worth as much as mine. I have also invested in this operation, not only ISK, but a hell of a lot of time and effort.

I cracked a bottle of bubbly to celebrate when I had sold out, anyone who knows me will be able to confirm that I see Praetoria as my baby, my idea, and a way to enjoy Eve even more.

This solution gives a great deal more than just 30% liquidation value. In fact it offers 100% to be raised again, and to continue this BPO as originally planned!!!!!The only difference is the obvious delay in starting (SORRY!!!)

I go by the value that one ****ed off person is better than a couple dozen ****ed off people. In layman's terms, I am sacrificing myself for the greater good.

8,775,009,000 ISK was lost as a result of the gank. At 220 mill a GTC, that comes to just under 40. Rub your eyes please at this point, because yes, I am purchasing 40 30-Day GTCs to cover the loss caused by my carelessness/stupidity. Calculate it to your local currency please, and then put me up for "IPO Holder of the Year" where Riethe comes last place of course...



To the further Operation of this Venture:

The buyback stays the same, 90% until March with one weeks notice.

Changes are as follows:

  1. C-R-A Towers will be providing the facilities for Praetoria to do the research, rather than own POS. This will save the operation a considerable overhead per month


  2. This enables us to purchase a 7th BPO, which will be Obelisk, to make profit margins higher than original plan.


  3. Originally, each sale was going to be 80% straight to investors, with 20% going to corp to cover costs, and an extra dividend at end of month. This will change as follows: The split will be 85% to 15%, however there will be no extra dividend at end of month, the extra profit will be used to build up isk for share buybacks.

    EDIT: I have been given an interest free loan for 1 BPO, so the numbers will in fact be 75% to 25% now, for corp to help pay that off. I am not willing to go any lower than that though, so that will be final numbers.


If there are any serious concerns, please voice these, however I cannot imagine the shareholders revolting at this due to:

Increased Revenue
Decreased Costs


If there are concerns, these will be answered, and in the event of multiple shareholders showing wrinkles, then there will be a vote on the changes.

Regards,

Bakimi aka Feyloan

P.S.: Call goes out to Shattered Crystal on Thursday.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:34:00 - [191]
 

Oh yeah, and there will be a secure method of transportation arranged by Ricdic as part of the deal, aparently I'm not the best at it *grumble* Laughing

Ziberious
Gallente
UK Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:39:00 - [192]
 

Im not to pleased with the fact that your going to waste your RL money to pay us back. I'd rather you save the money and find another way instead of haulting your finances in RL before christmas. Just my opinion.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:40:00 - [193]
 

I'd say it is a good idea overall even if I think your announcement was ill timed. You should've announced the solution after you succeeded. I can see alot of people low balling your gtc's because as they see it, you need them.

Also, I think the plan fits the bill but is a horrible example of too much. It's a lot of cash to toss in like this imho but every man has the right to choose when to fall on his sword... and the choice of sword as well.

ProudGallenteCitizen
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:50:00 - [194]
 

Anyone telling you that you should not use the gtc for isk option really just wants to see your IPO fail because it would any other way. Good luck.

Norrec Vizheran
VisionTek Heavy Industries
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:54:00 - [195]
 

Either Feyloan has gone completely insane or he is greatly dedicated to this ipo. I wish he had looked for a less RL involved route out of this problem, but it's his life and i'll support him in any way i can .

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:54:00 - [196]
 

If you can afford to do it, why not. Sometimes I fork out on GTC's for resale if I need an isk boost and don't feel like asking the public. This is basically the same thing (pretend CCP have put his wallet in negative 7 billion and it doesn't seem so bad).

We have been chatting about this for a few days now and it was completely his decision. Not wanting to capitalise off his RL expenses I also have an express deal that when it comes time to shut down shop or buy out his corp, he buys my shares off me at 85% of initial value (as I done the buyback at 80% for others).

My buyback offer still stands, and will rise to 98% once I have the secured freighter bpo's in the C-R-A corp hangar locked down with the EBANK stamp of secured approval.

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.28 00:59:00 - [197]
 

Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :)

But I admire your fortitude and honour in wanting to solve it. This is just the wrong way - that is my 2c of course.

Good luck.

Mr Horizontal
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:01:00 - [198]
 

I'm surprised at the somewhat negative reaction Feyloan's got here. The man has shown some serious character putting RL cash behind his mouth, and I for one will be looking to now increase my 100m stake in him as a direct result.

This is serious stuff, and those mocking it should reconsider the size of their balls.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:04:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Astorothe
Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :)


It's only money Laughing You guys make out like his kids will miss xmas because of this. I am not trying to devalue what he is doing as it is a lot.

But think of this.

He could:

a) Cut his losses and lose his reputation
b) Call failure and have no-one ever invest in him again
c) Grind for the next year to try and sc**** isk together to repay investors
d) Dig into a spare savings fund so he doesn't need to grind or lose his reputation.

"Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. Shocked

Matalino
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:11:00 - [200]
 

I am impressed by your dedication to your investors. Not many CEO's would be willing to put in so much to recover from such a huge loss.

If I am able to assist with off loading those GTC's for you, I would be happy to do what I can. Obviously, I still need to protect my own business plans, so no gaurentees.

I have sent you an EveMail outlining what I would be able to do to assist you.

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:21:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
"Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. Shocked


It was a joke - I thought you would have detected my dry sense of humour =)

I personally would not put RL cash into GTCs for an IPO. I'm not saying he shouldnt, just that I wouldnt. I actually commended him on his committment to his investors. But the IPO is no longer for me and my corp thus we cashed out.

But again, I wish it luck and will be watching with interest.

Daeva Vios
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:28:00 - [202]
 

I am shocked by the sort of dedication you have to this IPO.

Bravo is all I can say. I hope the rest of your investors see that this sort of dedication is a good thing. Ignore the one who are calling you names for it, imo. They're jealous they can't do this sort of thing themselves.

I'm impressed, and I'll be hanging on for the long haul. Smile

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.28 01:38:00 - [203]
 

I dont think anyones called him a name yet. We're all adults here, mostly, so chill guys. Some people need to read what is typed before hitting that reply button.

NeoTrade
Posted - 2007.11.28 02:36:00 - [204]
 

I am impressed by your dedication, and it gets my "IPO CEO of the year" award :)

But I will not allow you to do this if it has any sort of impact on your RL ability to live (i.e. pay bills, issues with a wife etc etc). Please confirm you are able to comfortably afford this.

On a related note - with the new BPO's that you buy, please please ship them one at a time, and please ship them with an alt who is not in your corp etc. It's possible you could be targetted - and losing one BPO is way different to losing 5. You'll reduce the risk, both to the IPO and yourself (cause if it happens again you'll be so upset - its just not worth it).

VO Mathilda
Posted - 2007.11.28 02:47:00 - [205]
 

I will buy 1 of your GTC. Secure way plz.

Regards.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2007.11.28 04:25:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: ProudGallenteCitizen
Anyone telling you that you should not use the gtc for isk option really just wants to see your IPO fail because it would any other way. Good luck.


Most Retarted comment EVER!

Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Astorothe
Eve will no longer be just a game if you do this and spend that sort of cash on GTCs. You're going to feel dirty for a long time :)


It's only money Laughing You guys make out like his kids will miss xmas because of this. I am not trying to devalue what he is doing as it is a lot.

But think of this.

He could:

a) Cut his losses and lose his reputation
b) Call failure and have no-one ever invest in him again
c) Grind for the next year to try and sc**** isk together to repay investors
d) Dig into a spare savings fund so he doesn't need to grind or lose his reputation.

"Feel Dirty" is a little OTT imo. I feel dirty when my wife does the Xmas shopping and I find she forked out $1200 AUD on a few too many presents. Shocked


yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine!

Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert.

Originally by: VO Mathilda
I will buy 1 of your GTC. Secure way plz.

Regards.


not by shuttle right? LaughingLaughing sorry couldnt help it Twisted Evil

Daeva Vios
Posted - 2007.11.28 04:59:00 - [207]
 

Well it's a good thing for everyone involved that you're not the one running the IPO, then.

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.28 05:07:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Daeva Vios
Well it's a good thing for everyone involved that you're not the one running the IPO, then.


That's a fairly redundant statement considering he's not running the IPO. Can we not just accept each other's opinion and move on with the IPO it'self?


Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.28 05:09:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: northwesten

yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine!


He 'chose' to do things this way. I didn't force his hand nor did anyone else. I did recommend he work it off over time, or just shut the business down as a failure but he didn't want to let his investors down.

Quote:
Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert.


Sure, either way works. Doing the long haul both makes you have a huge grind, and likely means you still let down your investors because you don't meet the same repayments that you would have if you actually had the 10b. I would normally recommend a write-off in the event of a suicide gank however the reason the suicide gank happened was because not 1 but 5 freighter bpo's were in a shuttle. Had there been a freighter gank with 1 bpo in it then loss could be recouped.

Obviously the OP made a fatal mistake. He is willing to pay for that mistake. The means he chooses to do so should be irrelevant.

Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.28 05:23:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: northwesten


yer I see your point but I would rather work his way back to the shares much as it can. I mean Its all really nice he paying RL for this but again I dont agree! It's happened he got ganked so I would rather him trade and such to gain the money back. Hell if there going to be a delay fine!

Using RL cash and GTC out of the problem i don't agree! If i ever lost crap loads of isk I slowly make it back to the investors in game. That way your rep can rebuild because people will see your making n effert.




Hmmmm..

I *used* to be an investor in this but the OPs timing (24h after the loss), short handed rudeness ("You're not an investor, STFU!") and 'grace period' ("Just a few more days..") silence turned me off on the deal--especially when he tried to still enforce the "1000 shares ONLY" artificial limit on the only person willing to help him.

Why is everyone so quick to toss out the old adage "If it is too good to be true.."?

Which is easier/more believable:
A. Someone takes the left over IPO money and regains the lost 9.5b through trading/selling and/or modified business plan
B. Someone, out of the "goodness of their heart" *plans* to willingly invests $600 USD to help ppl recoup an investment in EVE (40x 30d GTC through Shattered [email protected] $14.99 each)

and he's applauded for it?

Maybe EVE has jaded me, but is there any proof that he has actually gotten all 40 of these GTCs? I mean I *really* like EVE, but $600 IRL money for it? Psssshyeah..

For some reason THIS THREAD haunts my thoughts over this news.


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