open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Praetoria Holdings [.PH.] 5% Minimum [SOLD OUT]
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (12)

Author Topic

Daeva Vios
Posted - 2007.11.26 11:22:00 - [151]
 

Definitely some good ideas.

TBH, the biggest thing you have going for you is your swift reply here. You're showing that you're willing to communicate and consider options.

Though your reactions are less than dazzling, I suppose it's understandable. I'm most concerned with the fact that you treated our money as though it was worth less to you than yours. Every precaution should have been taken, and you used the #1 most dangerous way to transport billions of isk in goods.

It was just plain stupid.

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.26 11:26:00 - [152]
 

Any chance of an IRC discussion between shareholders and Bakimi?

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.26 11:54:00 - [153]
 

Big big thank you to Kara, I like the thinking, and those ideas have definately been taken on board and probably combined with other plans to make all round more effective.

Originally by: Daeva Vios
TBH, the biggest thing you have going for you is your swift reply here. You're showing that you're willing to communicate and consider options.

Though your reactions are less than dazzling, I suppose it's understandable. I'm most concerned with the fact that you treated our money as though it was worth less to you than yours. Every precaution should have been taken, and you used the #1 most dangerous way to transport billions of isk in goods.

It was just plain stupid.


As said, I was wanting to wait a day or two to reply at all, but that would simply be the wrong attitude to the shareholders, and only protecting myself whilst others get more and more concerned. I'm getting nothing short of what I deserve so far, because it was completely stupid, I have not denied this, however noone is more angry about this than me, I can guarantee you.

To your statement about the ISK. I value time greater than ISK, and although I do have a considerable investment in ISK in this venture myself, I have put a lot more time into it. Fact is, I made a mistake, this does not however mean I do not value other's input into this venture any more or less than mine, as my planned solutions will show.

As to my reactions (so far) being less than dazzling, I have given the numbers and calculations to the standard 3 solutions. However, I would not be me if I chose a standard solution, because noone wants to accept a 70% loss, which is why I am brooding on more ideas. I promise this will not take too much longer.

Originally by: Astorothe
Any chance of an IRC discussion between shareholders and Bakimi?


Sorry, I do not use IRC, however we can hold an in-game discussion or over msn, I am trying to answer all questions posed here as quickly as possible.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.26 13:58:00 - [154]
 

Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc

Amandrace
Minmatar
DSC inc
Posted - 2007.11.26 15:54:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc


I'll try contacting you in-game.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.26 16:39:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc


Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains.

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.26 17:58:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Shadarle on 26/11/2007 17:58:20
Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal
Originally by: Ricdic
Anyone interested in selling their shares as a result of this can sell them to me for 800k per share. This is of course a personal offer and not in any way related to EBANK/C-R-A/TCCS/C-P-H/etc


Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains.


How exactly is this enforceable unless you were to pay dividends manually in the future? He seemed to be giving you a fairly graceful way out of some of this mess...

Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
Posted - 2007.11.26 18:07:00 - [158]
 

Share limits are out the window once those shares leave the corp wallet. It's unenforceable and there's really no reason to enforce it either. It's perfectly understand to limit the amount of shares purchased during the IPO but shares are part of the free market, you can't control them.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.26 18:15:00 - [159]
 

Yeh the idea at this point is to try and limit the Wylker affect. I have a fair bit of spare personal isk available so can take a risk with that buyback. Obviously it's all hinged on your success or failure Smile

Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.26 18:44:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal

Simply thinking that you might be inundated with offers, I feel obliged to tell you that the 1,000 shares per person limit still remains.


Shouldn't you be thankful for any assistance out of this mess of your own making?

Atherin Gaius
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.26 23:48:00 - [161]
 

I would think you would welcome Ricdic attemp at bailing you out by giving us investors an opportunity to only lose 20% of our investment rather than 70% as has been projected.

Instead you quote rules that you created to foster investment by multiple people including new investors (i bet they are excited about the investing side of EVE now) that have no bearing on what happens after the initial shares are sold.

If I was ricdic (and I know he won't do this) I would withdraw the offer and watch you sway in the wind.

Fortunately I only invested 100mil so I am not contemplating character suicide or anything but I am interested what great idea you have to salvage this situation.


northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:20:00 - [162]
 

ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened?

Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:37:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: northwesten
ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened?


The OP lost 5 Freighter BPOs and a 7000 ISK shuttle while being afk piloting at a gate in empire.

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:49:00 - [164]
 

Quote:
Instead you quote rules that you created to foster investment by multiple people including new investors (i bet they are excited about the investing side of EVE now) that have no bearing on what happens after the initial shares are sold.


As someone who imposed limits of how much someone could purchase during my launch, I think it's a bit silly to enforce people never *owning* more than 1000 shares after initial launch.

In order to distribute the shares initially amongst many peeps its good, but from there on it's anybodies fair game, and I think it's crazy (and impossible) to enforce people *never* owning more than 1000 shares, and more importantly it has no effect on your business operation.

Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Wink

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:55:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: northwesten
ok many pages went by and i take it this turned bad? what happened?


The OP lost 5 Freighter BPOs and a 7000 ISK shuttle while being afk piloting at a gate in empire.


umm afk? freaking hell! I hope they didn't get it

Ina Mina
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:56:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Ina Mina on 27/11/2007 00:56:16
Nevermind.

Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.27 01:00:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: northwesten


umm afk? freaking hell! I hope they didn't get it


Apparently 3 BPOs were destroyed and 2 looted by the killer.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.27 03:43:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Wink


Haha that is awesome, but no I am not that smart.

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.27 03:52:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Ironically, (and I'm not suggesting anything, i just think it'd be damn funny) if Bakimi was an alt of ricdics, and he's now collecting back shares at a fraction of the initial price in order to "wash things over cleanly" and earn 20% of the total investment Wink


Haha that is awesome, but no I am not that smart.


Sly like a fox comes to mind! You are playing dumb just to pull off such hoaxes! Mwahahaha Twisted Evil

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.27 04:00:00 - [170]
 

I knew it. It's a Ricsploitz!

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.11.27 05:11:00 - [171]
 

Would the 1000 shares per person limit not be an issue if ricdics just kept 1k shares on each of several different alts? If so - doesn't that make a mockery of the whole idea? If not, how was this 1k shares limit planned to be enforced anyway?

I can understand limiting share purchase at IPO time - i did the same myself. But thereafter, attempting to restrict share ownership is unenforcable and pointless.

Note: I hold no shares in this venture so have no axe to grind either way. Just seems very wierd to try to use an unenforcable restriction to prevent something which would be of benefit to some shareholders.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.27 06:16:00 - [172]
 

Yeh I offered the buyback because I am fairly confident in Feyloan's skills to resolve the situation. Obviously other's aren't and I don't really want this thread to end up like Wylker's one. As I said when I first bought into it I do see the potential for Feyloan in this industry. He made a fatal mistake but the true testament will be seeing if he can recover from it.

Just coming back here and looking for resolutions shows that he doesn't want a tarnished reputation and my chats with him on msn and in-game lead me to believe he is going above and beyond the call of duty to try and fix the problem.

As was seen by Riethe, I could be wrong again which is why I am only buying back at 80%. Unfortunately the Riethe scam made me step back and look at those around me in a whole new light, people I have known and trusted with billions for years with me having to double question the trust etc. It's a good and bad thing but I hate having to do it.

Anyway yeh I could just buyback on all different toons it wouldn't matter and isn't enforcable. If anything I would see the Feyloan restriction of 1000 on me as a way to try and limit any fallout I recieve if he cannot resolve the situation.

Either way, I didn't get into the financial position I am in now by not taking risks. CCP made this game with Risk Vs Reward in mind, and even though they have had near zero hand in the MD portion of Eve over the years, Risk Vs Reward is still very much an important factor.

My reward if my belief in Feyloan is correct, is that those 5% minimum repayments go up to 6.25% minimum if Feyloan recovers and continues to meet repayments. If not and he liquidates then I get a higher amount back.

Liquidation at a loss or complete failure/scam is the adverse end of the scale. Time will tell but I can afford the loss if it occurs.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.27 08:04:00 - [173]
 

I will explain why I mentioned the cap.

Two Reasons:

1) Ricdic has slightly more knowledge because I sought his advice on not-standard solutions

2) It negates the main idea behind Kara Rhane's Idea I wanted to implement with buyback & Resale

Ecpect an announcement within 24 Hours now btw. pending one issue being solved. I think the tone of some people will change drastically when that announcement is made.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.27 08:10:00 - [174]
 

Insider trading 4tw. Sell me your shares under priced.

Nah, I just know what he is trying to accomplish. If all that fails then I lose a lot more than the 20% discount for doing this buyback Smile

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.11.27 13:49:00 - [175]
 

I ran this past corp mates and we decided to pull out - taking up Ricdic's offer of 80%.

Best of luck - will be keeping a close eye on developments - good luck.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.27 17:26:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Bakimi Ghevorchal on 27/11/2007 18:00:35
From the Praetoria Holdings Mailing List, posted by me:

OK, I will be posting the saving plan tonight on the forums, at some point, so don't complain if it's midnight and it is not there.

I will accept this plan as being the way to go, due to the alternative being a 30% payout of original investment. This will be very important for you, the investors.

Thank you

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.27 18:16:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Shadarle on 27/11/2007 18:16:49
I wonder if this involves a petition asking for BPO's back from CCP due to the death being caused by a crash. Thus refunding the 3 BPO's that were destroyed.

This would of course be the best way to recover easily and would have taken a few days perhaps.

Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.27 18:27:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked.


Couldn't think of a way of doing this so far apart from purchasing new ones, any ideas?

Shadarle
Posted - 2007.11.27 18:30:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Bakimi Ghevorchal
Originally by: Shadarle
Of course somehow getting the 2 back that were taken by some means is of course another avenue that might have worked.


Couldn't think of a way of doing this so far apart from purchasing new ones, any ideas?


Depends who it was that killed you of course. Probably too late at this point anyhow. I honestly can't tell you as I have 0 clue what actually happened as you've never explained it. It's all about who got you and how much you can find out about them.

Bakimi Ghevorchal
Praetoria Holdings
Posted - 2007.11.27 18:39:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Shadarle
Depends who it was that killed you of course. Probably too late at this point anyhow. I honestly can't tell you as I have 0 clue what actually happened as you've never explained it. It's all about who got you and how much you can find out about them.


OK, well considering who it was I felt that route would not be worth it anyhow. As to what happened, I have my reasons for not posting it so far, as i do for asking not to speculate, the only known fact is I was in a shuttle, nothing more.


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (12)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only