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blankseplocked Quarterly Economic Newsletter, 3rd Quarter 2007 by Dr.EyjoG
 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.11.13 00:46:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
A couple of things really jump out at me, having a background in Market research and the lighter side of statistics.

First, I believe the characters with less than 1 million SP should be considered outliers. So many people have alts that are in Jita, or for scouting, or simply out of the box market alts that sit on the same account as their main character (I'm guilty here, too).

Addendum:
I just created an alt with 800k SP, and went to train a rank one skill from level 4->level 5 (need a cyno character :p ). Even without implants, it takes 7-8 days to train from level 4 to level 5 (45k SP to 256k SP), which would put my character to over 1 million SP in just over a week, not a month as the Dr. indicates in the first full paragraph on page 5. Again I say, you need to run numbers again, without the <1mil characters.



I perfectly agree with you on this point. Our biggest problem was that we wanted to include new players in the numbers so our only option was to include all characters. We have also been thinking about reporting only account averages rather than character averages? What does the forum think about that?

Dr. EyjoG


+1 vote to not count the less than 1 mil characters. as it takes about a week to get over 1mil sp (and by the end of the trial account 1.1-1.2mil should be the norm)

also note he says it takes about a month to gain 1million skill points, not 1 month to break 1million skill points. aka after a month a new person should have about 1.8 mil sp.

Ed Anger
Weekly World News
Derek Knows Us
Posted - 2007.11.13 00:47:00 - [92]
 

13% in lowsec, and 9% in 0.0?? i would have thought it would be the other way around...

1st MOAB
Posted - 2007.11.13 00:48:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
A couple of things really jump out at me, having a background in Market research and the lighter side of statistics.

First, I believe the characters with less than 1 million SP should be considered outliers. So many people have alts that are in Jita, or for scouting, or simply out of the box market alts that sit on the same account as their main character (I'm guilty here, too).


I perfectly agree with you on this point. Our biggest problem was that we wanted to include new players in the numbers so our only option was to include all characters. We have also been thinking about reporting only account averages rather than character averages? What does the forum think about that?

Dr. EyjoG


account averages are really the only way especially since even a noobe has to have an account.

Ulstan
Posted - 2007.11.13 01:43:00 - [94]
 

Account averages are far far less useful than looking only at mains.

Of course, if you exclude anyone with less than 1 mill xp, then the account average *would* be the main, unless for some bizarre reason someone is trying to train two characters simultaneously.

Lobster Man
Pigs On Teh Wing
Posted - 2007.11.13 02:07:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG
Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
A couple of things really jump out at me, having a background in Market research and the lighter side of statistics.

First, I believe the characters with less than 1 million SP should be considered outliers. So many people have alts that are in Jita, or for scouting, or simply out of the box market alts that sit on the same account as their main character (I'm guilty here, too).


I perfectly agree with you on this point. Our biggest problem was that we wanted to include new players in the numbers so our only option was to include all characters. We have also been thinking about reporting only account averages rather than character averages? What does the forum think about that?

Dr. EyjoG


Perhaps not account averages, but exclude characters with very low playtimes or very sporadic playtimes. I know my market alts are not usually logged in as for more than 20 minutes at a time, max. I'm sure some sort of exclusion algorithm could be devised...

TheDevilsJury
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.13 02:29:00 - [96]
 

Account sums will produce more useful info than account averages. I would add up all the skillpoints on an account, then subtract 800k skillpoints for each character. That produces the total sp trained on the account.

Dythe
Minmatar
TK Corp
Aegis Consortium
Posted - 2007.11.13 02:51:00 - [97]
 

The percentages of people using 0.0 make me wonder if they are accurate.

That would mean that a very small minority has access/is willing to deal with most of the content and systems added.

78% of the population in Empire space and what percentage of the content does that reflect? How about what percentage of systems?

This tells me 2 things: one you need a better way of counting alts and mains--while I do suspect that most of the population is in Empire, I don't think its that skewed.

And it makes me wonder just why expansions give more 0.0 space than Empire (or is this an incorrect impression)?

Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.13 03:44:00 - [98]
 

I'd just like to thank Dr.EyjoG for a very good report, it confirmed a lot of things which I had intuitions about. It would be nice to have data on everything in every quarterly report, but I understand the effort it would take to do that as being beyond one person. You mention its supposed to help our gameplay to read such information, but I don't see much of anything in that regard. If anything, this helps CCP manage the economy better. Ultimately, players don't have control over the isk faucets and isk sinks... and as long as those two are imbalanced, issues will arise that affect us but can't be overcome by us. Its good to see that you've suggested CCP remove that hard coded 3.6 isk/trit that comes from shuttles.

Some comments I wish to make... while its nice to know that I'm in the top 200 in terms of skillpoints, it wasn't too long ago that I was in the top 500, or top 2000. Seven months for the typical stay in EVE Online is pretty poor because there isn't much you are going to experience in seven months, let alone master. I'm wondering how different the game would be if all those names and faces I remember from years ago had continued playing actively. Pretty much all of them quit citing the same reasons, those that said nothing simply lost interest. I would say thats a good amount of time for playing a game, but is it good enough for one that aims to become a true virtual world? What impact would this have on the economy? The most obvious one is that fewer high skillpoint players means fewer producers of high end products. CCP already reduced the skill requirements of t2 battleship construction CONSIDERABLY.. now what will happen if we get tech 3?

Who does CCP cater to in such a situation? The few older players that have the skillpoints to take advantage of new gameplay much sooner than most people (and possibly monopolize on it) or make new features/gameplay easier to get, negating any real advantages older players would have in this regard?

Theres a lot of stuff that should of been addressed a long time ago, that is shown to be true by this report, and I would like to see you, Dr.EyjoG, become the administrator of economic integrity. CCP's approach in the past has been one of fear - don't touch it if its not broke, and if its broke, fix it. But if something breaks in the economy, there is lasting repercussions. People are able to abuse situations to become rich, command market control, or otherwise have negative impact.

Landarian
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.11.13 03:47:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Dythe
The percentages of people using 0.0 make me wonder if they are accurate.

That would mean that a very small minority has access/is willing to deal with most of the content and systems added.

78% of the population in Empire space and what percentage of the content does that reflect? How about what percentage of systems?

This tells me 2 things: one you need a better way of counting alts and mains--while I do suspect that most of the population is in Empire, I don't think its that skewed.

And it makes me wonder just why expansions give more 0.0 space than Empire (or is this an incorrect impression)?


Personally I think it says that the vast majority of players aren't interested in dealing with PvP most of the time. Or perhaps that they don't want to deal with the possibility of PvP and so don't bother to go the "unpoliced" areas.

Which I think is the case with most human mindsets - the majority don't want to live their lives looking over their shoulders wondering what smacktalking pirate might jump on them :)

As for the expansions and content, CCP would *like* for us to venture out into those areas and not have so many of us live in Empire, and so they keep adding things to tease us out there but so far it doesn't seem to work out that way. /shrug

Violent Blue
Posted - 2007.11.13 05:39:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Dythe
The percentages of people using 0.0 make me wonder if they are accurate.

That would mean that a very small minority has access/is willing to deal with most of the content and systems added.

78% of the population in Empire space and what percentage of the content does that reflect? How about what percentage of systems?

This tells me 2 things: one you need a better way of counting alts and mains--while I do suspect that most of the population is in Empire, I don't think its that skewed.

And it makes me wonder just why expansions give more 0.0 space than Empire (or is this an incorrect impression)?


I agree with the skewing. I have 4 accounts. Of those 3 of my mains are 0.0 residents and the other main is an empire dweller. however, I have 8 more <1M sp alts who reside completely in empire doing various tasks for me. (including forum posting) If you count my mains I am 25% (1/4) in empire. if you count all my chars I am 75% (9/12) in empire.

really throws off the numbers.

ishkabibble
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.11.13 06:24:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Ed Anger
13% in lowsec, and 9% in 0.0?? i would have thought it would be the other way around...


Doesnt surprise me at all

More CNR's are lost than thanatos, and as far as i have seen a large amount of those are used for mission running.

Low sec has some good lvl 4 and 5 agents so the increase in low sec should surprise anyone if it even increases next Q, and factor in the new marauders that will be used will make it faster for mission runners to make isk and increase population in low sec

0.0 is only good for 2 things, building super caps and moon mining. At least thats my opinion.

iudex
Posted - 2007.11.13 07:04:00 - [102]
 

Nice work, thanks.
Most interesting thing for me was Figure 9: Isk in wallet.
So there are people (1 or more, the blue bar is tiny though) that have more than
100.000.000.000 (>100bil !) isk in their wallets ? That's awsome.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.11.13 07:24:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
I'd just like to thank Dr.EyjoG for a very good report, it confirmed a lot of things which I had intuitions about. It would be nice to have data on everything in every quarterly report, but I understand the effort it would take to do that as being beyond one person. You mention its supposed to help our gameplay to read such information, but I don't see much of anything in that regard. If anything, this helps CCP manage the economy better. Ultimately, players don't have control over the isk faucets and isk sinks... and as long as those two are imbalanced, issues will arise that affect us but can't be overcome by us. Its good to see that you've suggested CCP remove that hard coded 3.6 isk/trit that comes from shuttles.

Some comments I wish to make... while its nice to know that I'm in the top 200 in terms of skillpoints, it wasn't too long ago that I was in the top 500, or top 2000. Seven months for the typical stay in EVE Online is pretty poor because there isn't much you are going to experience in seven months, let alone master. I'm wondering how different the game would be if all those names and faces I remember from years ago had continued playing actively. Pretty much all of them quit citing the same reasons, those that said nothing simply lost interest. I would say thats a good amount of time for playing a game, but is it good enough for one that aims to become a true virtual world? What impact would this have on the economy? The most obvious one is that fewer high skillpoint players means fewer producers of high end products. CCP already reduced the skill requirements of t2 battleship construction CONSIDERABLY.. now what will happen if we get tech 3?

Who does CCP cater to in such a situation? The few older players that have the skillpoints to take advantage of new gameplay much sooner than most people (and possibly monopolize on it) or make new features/gameplay easier to get, negating any real advantages older players would have in this regard?

Theres a lot of stuff that should of been addressed a long time ago, that is shown to be true by this report, and I would like to see you, Dr.EyjoG, become the administrator of economic integrity. CCP's approach in the past has been one of fear - don't touch it if its not broke, and if its broke, fix it. But if something breaks in the economy, there is lasting repercussions. People are able to abuse situations to become rich, command market control, or otherwise have negative impact.


this is quite important

i suppose 7 months because at 7 months the next thing to train takes 2-4 weeks to train, think; cruiser 5, battle cruiser 5, medium weapon 5, battleship 5, and large weapon 5.

that and the okay now i can do missions good, what next? 0.0 well how do i make isk in 0.0? and not get destroyed by the "big boys" and the how do i get my stuff down there and back.

heh getting tech 3, now there is an interesting point. given the already existent barriers to t2 production

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.13 07:37:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Ulstan
Edited by: Ulstan on 12/11/2007 16:31:19
Edited by: Ulstan on 12/11/2007 16:30:44
Quote:
On another note, these days it seems to be far to easy to earn isk


By no means.

There are 195,000 accounts.

536 billion in, 365 billion out.

That is ~877k per account per day earned.

That means that it will take, on average, 114 days for a player to earn enough money for a 100 mill battleship (If you're Caldari, as most players are, the Raven is your first viable battleship) if he saves every single dime and has no ammo expenses, unexpected ship losses, etc. For a newbie of course it will be much longer, because they don't earn as much money as the pros, so they will be making less than the average. So if we assume the newbie already has a fitted out money earning cruiser platform and then saves for 5 straight months, he can get his battleship.

That rate seems perfectly fine to me considering that apparently the average length of time to play the game is 7 months.

are you honestly telling me that you think it takes new players that long to make enough isk for a bs?
the 877k pr account is what you earn from shooting a single bad npc in 0,0
or what you earn on a level 2 mission for that matter


It may seem strange to you, but to me about 4 months to get a BS seem right. I started playing in April 2006 and got my first BS in august.

Ulstan calculation about isk earned is incorrect for other reasons, as most isk sinks affect older players, not starting players (with the exclusion of skillbooks, but most starting player skillbooks aren't so expensive).

Most important isk earned is different from the quantity of isk that enter the system, generally the idea is that new players earn isk from isk faucets, then the isk move to older players through buy order, till it get out of the system when the older players pay for NPC items/services.

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2007.11.13 08:00:00 - [105]
 

What does it mean when I click the link for download, and I get a completely blank page?


Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:19:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Speaking of low sec, I was quite honestly surprised to learn that 13% of the population is in low sec compared to 9% for 0.0. Of all the enormous empires out there in 0.0, there must be a *ton* of people running around in low sec, which makes me think the 'low sec isn't populated' complaints coming from pirates are mostly indicative of them being unable to pry themselves off a gate camp and actually make the effort to go out and find people.


Well, 9% seems low, but remember that that is the proportion of all characters, so it includes all the alts etc, a lot of which are probably price-check or science alts which you would expect to be sitting in empire. 9% of all characters corresponds to 38970 characters (based on the 433k total count stated in a previous paragraph). Adding up the membership counts for the Top 10 alliances on the alliance webpage (which I know is a bit out of date), you only get 21959 characters.

This also gives us 56290 characters in low sec. If we assume that everyone with a negative sec status (however small the negative) indulges in low-sec piracy to some extent, that would give us 32000 pirates preying on (433k*0.13-32k)=24290 other players. That sort of pirate-to-victim ratio would indeed make low-sec look underpopulated from the pirate's point of view, even if it's quite well-populted from a universe point of view. Of course, if we take the more stringent -3 sec status view, it looks a lot different, but my gut feeling is that the 0 to -2 sec status range contains a lot of part-time pirates, who indulge every so often while ensuring they never shut themselves out from empire space.

It would certainly be interesting here if it was possible to trawl back through the logs and aggregate just the negative sec-status movements for each character, and then take an average over time to make it comparable with characters of different ages. This would give a better indication of the levels of piracy really being committed, without being masked by the rat-grinding a lot of people do to compensate their sec status.

What would also be interesting is to repeat the population distribution, but only counting the character with the most SP on each account. This should eliminate the effect of alts, and give a better impression of what people are actually doing with their main characters.

Originally by: Ulstan
I'm also curious as to what CCP thinks of the rate of ISK in vs ISK out. If I'm understanding it right, then on average, a character *makes* about 400k per day in net profit from something like NPC trading, mining, ratting, after counting fees and repairs and such (excluding things like module purchases and ammo, etc).

That's uh, almost laughably small.


While they "make" about 400k per day, that's not reflective of their turnover or purchasing power. That's their contribution to the increase of the total amount of isk in the game. It doesn't include the increase in their holdings of "stuff" (that, while worth isk, is not in itself isk). Generally, players only get isk in order to spend it on stuff. So in terms of the "richness" of a player, the rate at which they can sustainably spend isk is more important than the amount of isk they hold at any one time (i.e the velocity of isk that's mentioned in the QEN).

Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
Again, if you only take one suggestion from my post, please let it be this one:
REMOVE <1mil characters from your sample's base size across all your calculations.


I would suggest a refinement to this. Exclude <1mil characters unless they are the highest-SP character on that account. This should exclude all the second and third character "alts", while still including the genuine new players.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:20:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Karanth
What does it mean when I click the link for download, and I get a completely blank page?




You may have an old version of Adobe Reader, or one that for some reason isn't working well together with your browser (I've had this in the past).

Try right-clicking the link and select "save target as..." or equivalent menu entry, this should stop the browser from trying to open the PDF right away and will instead save it to disk.

Higgous
Gallente
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:23:00 - [108]
 

Great stuff!

Really impressed with the economic stuff so far! Adds alot to the immersion of the game! Very Happy

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:39:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Sky
Originally by: Ulstan
Newbies are not going to 0.0 and shooting battleship NPC's, nor are newbies earning 877k per L2 mission, except *possibly* Recon1 after they've trained all the relevant social skills to IV.

Anyway, that's the math. The average account earns 877k per day. You and I earn far more than that per day, so therefore, there must be people earning far less than that per day, probably the elusive 'casual player' we keep hearing about.


Yes, the elusive casual player skews the results - like myself, yesterday I made something like 6 million isk, and that's the busiest I've been in about a month. ;) Granted, that was 6 million isk through level 1 missions in an assault frigate, probably in about 3 hours of play, giving around 2 mil isk/hour.

I would expect a newbie to make isk somewhat more slowly than I did as they would need more time to complete the missions (punisher does around half the damage of a retribution, has lower speed, less optimal range, their skills are lower, etc.).

Even so, for those that have forgotten their early days, that should give an idea of what a newbie would be able to make through missions early on, about 1 to 2 million isk per hour. So a mission running newbie could get into a battleship in 50 to 100 hours of mission running, without anything more than a decent level 1 agent and a frigate.

If one of my crazy friends were to begin playing Eve on a Friday, and did their non-stop 3 day weekend of gaming routine... they'd probably have 100 mil by the next Monday. It would, of course, take way more time for them to actually be able to fly a battleship, at least in a manner worth speaking of.

-Rash


I think you are forgetting the expenses he will have, from ammunitions, to modules, ships, skillbooks and implants.

As a newbie running mission in whatever ship he could pilot he probably will lose a lot of ships, consume tons of amunition (low damage and low knowledge of optimal, tracking and c.), be incapable of using most helpful modules and so on.

Getting a 1 million/hour (loot and salvage included) doing mission don't mean so much if he lose a 300K isk ship every 2 hours, especially as probably he will be incapable of salvagins, so cutting his income.

A player running a lot of mission or mining a lot will earn 100 million isk relatively fast, but in the meantime he will have a lot of expenses: 1-2 skillbook every day, buying and upgrading implants for faster learning, ship lost or outgrowth.

His best bet for a fast isk inflow is to run missions with oversized ships (cruiser in level 1, BC in level 2), as that will lower his number of ship lost, but still he vill not get the isk for a BS in 3 days, simply because he will be using them almost as fast as he get them.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:50:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Garrick Konquero
It would also be interesting to include information not merely on characters and accounts, but players, since a chunk of the player population plays with more than one account.


The problem with this is trying to associate different accounts to the same person. While matching the personal account details may work with some, it won't with others, and it would be very difficult to work out how effecitve you were being at the matching.

Originally by: Derboff
One point I would be interested in. Figs 5/6 shows the relationship between industry and pilots. Is there any reason for the link in the faucets and sinks to pilots and not industrial. Is there any figures on the cost of industrial fees etc related to the figure of 365 billion. Also does the sink fee include researching and invention ?


It's just simpler to link them into one box than both, I think. And as the text explains, an "industrialist" in one context will also be a "pilot" in another context. In effect, you're saying that a "pilot" always interacts with the NPC's, and supplies services to the "industrialist" as a middle-man. Though in many situations, the "pilot" and "industrialist" will be the same character, so the player themselves never makes this distinction. It's a good model for explaining why minerals you mine yourself are not free to your production process.

And he does mention that the sinks (Box D) includes all forms of fees, including lab fees. Though with invention it's important to remember that buying datacores with RP is not an isk faucet, because it's introducing stuff into the game, not isk. Similarly, the destruction of datacores/decryptors/BPC's/items in the invention process is not an isk sink because again, it's "stuff" leaving the game, not isk.

Originally by: Ulstan
By no means.

There are 195,000 accounts.

536 billion in, 365 billion out.

That is ~877k per account per day earned.

That means that it will take, on average, 114 days for a player to earn enough money for a 100 mill battleship (If you're Caldari, as most players are, the Raven is your first viable battleship) if he saves every single dime and has no ammo expenses, unexpected ship losses, etc. For a newbie of course it will be much longer, because they don't earn as much money as the pros, so they will be making less than the average. So if we assume the newbie already has a fitted out money earning cruiser platform and then saves for 5 straight months, he can get his battleship.

That rate seems perfectly fine to me considering that apparently the average length of time to play the game is 7 months.


That's not right though. The 877k is the amount of new isk added to the game, not the amount of isk an individual will have seen enter their account during that time. To gauge that, we need to look at the velocity of isk round the loop, which is the 2.1 trillion per day. Which with the 195k accounts averages to 10.76mill per day.

Kakita J
Placid Reborn
Posted - 2007.11.13 09:52:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Ulstan
Newbies are not going to 0.0 and shooting battleship NPC's, nor are newbies earning 877k per L2 mission, except *possibly* Recon1 after they've trained all the relevant social skills to IV.

Anyway, that's the math. The average account earns 877k per day. You and I earn far more than that per day, so therefore, there must be people earning far less than that per day, probably the elusive 'casual player' we keep hearing about.

possible, but i havnt met many of these in my time in eve tbh.
even one hour of mining will generate a lot more isk then 877k

Wrong, mining does not generate any isk at all in this terminology... it merely redistributes it among players.

Also, do all the faucet-crashers, keep in mind a) the population increases, b) the population matures, and c) we see prices decreasing, not increasing.

a) is pretty straight forward, more people, more cash, even if everybody's wallet stays the same.

b) All characters age at the same rate, and since the total population increases, the average character gets older (unless we have some very unlikely or impossible join/leave statistics). Older characters use and lose more expensive equipment, and thus hold more money in their wallets for possibly needed replacements. Older characters also typically have better money making abilities.

c) We see a deflation of prices. I'm not an economist, but shouldn't the prices start increasing if everybody had lots of money to spend?

Redbad
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:23:00 - [112]
 

Goodafternoon Dr. EyjoG,

First of all congratualtions on a very nicely presented Economic Newletter. It has some very detailed content. Because you dealt with a digitized Universe you were able to get some very nice statistics and data. On most parts you did an excellent representation of this data.

It is however that I like to warn you that your "might" in the digital universe to obtain this data makes you a very powerful person in the ability to present such data we all have to guess or figure out by experience. You have to use that might wisely sir!

You've now shown with this detailed newsletter the EVE-public you are a very capable person that understands the economic implications surrounding interaction with this digital economy. Your newsletter is in some parts so detailed it can give away a lot of "clues" to the smart players. And the darnest thing is, I consider my competitors all smart players. Wink Ofcourse you can say we all got this info, but I consider it a sport to figure most of this stuff out myself and use it in my business strategy.

I think this Newletter is much too detailed and would like to see the next newsletter more describing the trends and more opinonation thoughts from players themselves.

You are here to guard our digital economy from harm that can be done by future expansions of the game, not to explain it's workings to every player and his wife and give them a heads up backed up by flawless raw data from the game. In essence this Newsletter, if it gets too detailed like this, can harm that economy itself. Don't give too much details, those are to be discovered by the players themselves.

Good to have someone watching out for the market though, that is a good move on CCP's parts, judging your report, you are the right man for the job. Just don't flaunt it that much. Wink

RB

Malarki X
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:41:00 - [113]
 

Cant open / DL - getting an error.

Sabahl
Minmatar
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:49:00 - [114]
 

Link dead for me too. Is this mirrored anywhere?

Cybergoth
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:49:00 - [115]
 

Same here; file not supported error. Crying or Very sad

Reverend Revelator
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:53:00 - [116]
 

can't click on the pdf, and 'Save target as...' didnt work either

Raxxar
Arioh Private Corp
Fixed Realms
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:54:00 - [117]
 

Quote:
Not Found

The requested URL /pdf/QEN_Q3.pdf was not found on this server.


Can you lucky guys, who got it upload it to eve-files?

Tamsin Jakiri
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.13 10:57:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Tamsin Jakiri on 13/11/2007 11:20:03
The most logical metric to use for the SP distribution is "skillpoints trained per account", which is the total number of skillpoints on an account with 800k subtracted for each character.

Obviously this gives an inaccurate result for anyone whose character was made in an age when this wasn't the starting amount of SP, but such a length of time has passed since this was the case I'd say that either the character has enough SP for this not to cause any significant difference or has not been actively trained for some time.

A better way to do that would be total skillpoints with the number of starting SP when the characters on the account were made subtracted, but considering the amounts are relatively small it's a much greater amount of work for not much benefit.

A useful sideeffect is that if there are any accounts that have been "abandoned" by people who logged in once to never return, or unused alt accounts created for a purpose that ran out before the trial did, they would have either a near zero or negative skillpoint total, meaning you could limit their effect on the rest of the information relatively trivially.

Originally by: ArmyOfMe

On another note, these days it seems to be far to easy to earn isk, and is there any plans about reducing the income of isk the game?


I'm not sure why you chose to pick out mining as an example of how isk making is too easy "these days" given that its rate of income has gone through the floor since the removal of the 2.6 isk/unit tritanium cap.

(Some completely unrelated graphs from The Forge's mineral price history for you graphically minded chaps:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7889/completelyunrelatedgraplu4.png
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7580/completelyunrelatedgrapkg4.png )

Since by design not all ores are created equal or supposed to be equal, and given the player bases' inability to increase the efficiency of mining in other ways*, mining's viability as an income source is through the floor.

*Except macromining. That's a very efficient way of getting trit, but I'm not sure it's something to encourage or assume.

Originally by: Ulstan
Also, for all the CNR hate, some interesting figures:


For Jan-Aug:

CNR produced: 2300
Thanatos produced: 2800

CNR lost: 1500
Thanatos lost: 450

The CNR is produced less often than the Thanatos and lost at a far higher rate. Again, it doesn't look like mission running, even in an expensive CRN, is 'risk free', at least to the majority of the EVE population.



According to figures from http://www.nsc.org/public/issues/CPSCSafetyReport.pdf , candles caused 50% more deaths in the sample than chainsaws. Are candles more dangerous than chainsaws? No, obviously not - but you pay much more care and attention when using a chainsaw than using a candle, you wear protective clothing, in many cases you go through training to use them. If you used candles the same way you used chainsaws, you wouldn't see any candle deaths at all.

Similarly, it's not outside the realms of possibility to suggest that people think of mission running as "safe" because it is - relative to more dangerous forms of moneymaking - and that the results are being skewed by mission runners not paying sufficient attention, or using sufficiently good equipment, or being sufficiently prepared in other ways. Someone used to more dangerous forms of moneymaking might be able to mission with impunity and never come close to dying.

This isn't necessarily what is happening, but given that the biggest cause of death for moneymaking ships anywhere is "not paying sufficient attention" (forgetting to turn off your booster, not seeing hostiles in local, not noticing rats spawning and attacking your untanked mining ship being three examples) I don't think we have sufficient evidence from the number given to make any substantiated claims especailly as we have many simpler ways of testing any hypothesis.

VVV Hi there!

Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2007.11.13 11:01:00 - [119]
 

Account averages would be a mistake IMHO - having scout or market alts should not distort apparent skill or isk totals.

Likewise I'm not convinced by "take highest character" suggestions as some people do have significant skill point totals on their alts - lots of transport/freighter and production/refining/T2 alts out there. My feeling is that as you can only train one character at a time, the significant figure is total skill points per account (though a graph of total skill points per player would also be interesting!). Isk OTOH can be accumulated by and distributed over several characters and accounts so would probably best be analysed on a "per player" basis.


Daesor
Posted - 2007.11.13 11:10:00 - [120]
 

An excellent read! Thoroughly enjoyed it.

One very simply (albeit trivial request), could we get commas attached to the numbers on Figure 9 at every 1,000 unit?
Eg. 1000000000 becomes 1,000,000,000.

Ok so that was fairly inconsequential - just makes reading the data easier Smile


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