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blankseplocked The new Eos: an Astarte with less grid, and the DPS of a Thorax.
 
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Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.11.09 20:41:00 - [61]
 

Quote:
The claymore sucks 1v1, the damnation sucks 1v1, the vulture sucks 1v1. Welcome to balance.


Now translate this into 5v5, 20v20, or 200v200. The Eos STILL sucks, and the others don't. Welcome to "balance".

Admiral Seafort
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.09 23:26:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Admiral Seafort on 09/11/2007 23:26:43
Originally by: Safron Mista

Most eos pilots outhere just want their gank mobile back.


No most Eos pilots just want a useful ship that isn't outclassed in every practical role by another Fleet Command.

The RepoMan
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
Red Horizon
Posted - 2007.11.10 00:26:00 - [63]
 

if the eos can still do comparable damage to a thorax, it's still overpowered. Stop crying.

Zitelli
Eyes of the Night
Posted - 2007.11.10 01:01:00 - [64]
 

I've been flying my Eos in small gangs for the last month trying unsuccessfully to get it popped. Finally, few days back I jumped solo into a gatecamp it was done. I don't intend to buy another.

-Zitelli

Kamen
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.11.10 01:10:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: diska
My current target was an EOS. I planned it with EFT and 51 day remain. But since the new changes I don`t think that I still need it as well.

But I still training to it, cause it`s my personal fleet command ship. I`m don`t want to solo PvP with him, just for primary target - gang bonuses for 5 lvl agents.

You should have trained for a vulture then. Its DPS is definitely going to impress you.

ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.11.10 01:23:00 - [66]
 

What I'd see as useful is 1 bonus to sentry drone bandwith usage (allowing 5) and either a boost/outright change to its warfare links, and or perhaps a jack-of-all-trades bonus like 1.5% instead of 3% for racial?

Zendoc
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.10 01:53:00 - [67]
 

What I don't understand is... Why everyone is complaining about it being a bad solo ship. Not one of the fittings I have seen posted in this thread has been a fleet command setup. I haven't seen a single fitting incorporate gang warfare links. And those of you saying the infowar link modules are useless are just dumb, EW is extremely useful to fleets, I have no idea why you think that's a good argument. And I will state it again, you don't have to fit only info war mods, I fit seige warfare mods on my claymore without getting the seige warfare bonus.

Your ship does more dps than a claymore, holds more drones, and has an extra low slow. Stop crying and use the damn ship as a fleet command, you know... what its supposed to be. You just want your ships to be better than everyone else's in every case scenario, because you're gallente and it's what you're used to. Its called balance. Live with it. Fleet commands are NOT solo ships. They are meant to use 3 gang warfare links simotaneously. If you don't want to fit gang warfare mods, buy an astarte.

Kamen
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:07:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Zendoc
...You just want your ships to be better than everyone else's in every case scenario, because you're gallente and it's what you're used to...

I don't think anyone could have said it better

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:14:00 - [69]
 

Quote:
The new Eos: an Astarte with less grid, and the DPS of a Thorax.


The thorax has equivalent or more DPS than the nighthawk, which is a FIELD command ship, meant for combat and not just gang support. The nighthawk is the Caldari astarte, and the thorax can match it for DPS.

AKA stop complaining about the eos; it's now in line with the other fleet commands, and you still have the astarte for wtfpwnage.

Zendoc
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:20:00 - [70]
 

To be fair though, my rifter can match the nighthawk for DPS.

Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:21:00 - [71]
 

Typical for Gallente. That's what you get for your holoreel and booster addiction.

Zendoc
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:30:00 - [72]
 

Maybe this thread has really opened up our eyes to the real problem which is, Thorax do way too much damage. Now that I think about it, I've been out DPSed by a thorax in my vagabond. Not that the vagabond is the top of the line for DPS or anything, but jesus its a hac vs a tech 1 cruiser. Maybe instead of saying buff eos, we should be saying... nerf thorax. Then your Eos would seem alot better.

Problem solved.

Xthril Ranger
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:35:00 - [73]
 

change the ewar range ganglink module back to the original bonus (that never made it to tranquility) and I will not complain.....

Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:50:00 - [74]
 

Each fleet command ship has a role that they are good at..

The Vulture tanks well and has the ability to hit at 200km+ with railguns, augmenting fleet snipers.

The Claymore gets a bonus to arguably the best ganglink, it gets 8 high slots for 5 guns and 3 links, and is considered the hit & run of the command ships with the fastest speed and the ability to tank a high amount of burst dps..

The Damnation gets a double tanking bonus that allows it to have an incredibly high amount of armor. Although 5 missile launchers with no damage bonus gives it a pretty weak dps.

Pre-nerf Eos weakest tank of all the command ships, but it made up for it by having twice the dps of any other fleet CS, its large drone bay and ability to field 5 25m3 drones gave it much flexibility with combat,logistic,and EWAR drones.

Post-nerf Eos weakest tank of all the command ships, still highest dps with the standard Gallente limitations, high cap usage for guns, very close range required, drones are vunerable. Lowering the drone bandwidth to that of a Raven(the most limited drone race) limits the total usefullness of its drone bay.


Zendoc
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.10 02:52:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Rastigan

Post-nerf Eos weakest tank of all the command ships, still highest dps with the standard Gallente limitations,



There, you said it.

Unworldly1
Gallente
Intergalactic Jesters
Posted - 2007.11.10 03:57:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Unworldly1 on 10/11/2007 04:12:40
Originally by: Zendoc
Not one of the fittings I have seen posted in this thread has been a fleet command setup.


I suggest you check post 54 of page two.

As for your recommendation to use Eos in fleets, well, other than dying quickly if the other FC notices you, what will the Eos be doing in the fleet? Oh, it'll boost the EW, whilst doing *0 DPS* to anything at all.

Similarly, whats with all this 'Eos can do same damage as a Thorax! OMG NERF!!!'... uhhh... the Brutix does more damage than a Thorax, yes? And the Eos is BASED ON the Brutix, and yet (post-nerf) DOES NOT outdamage it? But... Brutix outdamages Thorax?!? it must need a nerf, being a higher class of ship!

Also,
Originally by: Zendoc
jesus its a hac vs a tech 1 cruiser

So... you're saying the T1 ship should not outdamage the t2 ship... guess what, Eos is a t2 ship. By your argument, it SHOULD outdamage the Thorax.

Anyway, whilst Zendoc here is attempting to say that Eos, in fact, should no longer exist at all (read:If this nerf is how it will be, look forward to never seeing an Eos on the field again, except while people are trying to get them blown up cos they can't sell them), he avoids the crucial issue: The Eos no longer has a point. You say take it into an EW squad? Well, you can bonus the squad but who will do the damage? the EW ships certainly don't do much damage, and the Eos as EW ranges won't be damaging anything either. As shown on page 2, to fit medium rails on there means the Eos will have empty mids and empty lows. It simply can't do it.
Thus, the suggestion: Take the Eos damage bonus (noone who is actually thinking about balance cares about the DPS anymore - the current nerf to the damage has put it in line with other Fleet Commands). Switch the damage bonus for an optimal bonus. Regrid the Eos to use rails. Give it a static dronebay, and change the dronebay/level bonus to either: a bonus to the bandwidth of repair drones, allowing it to rep gangmates, or a bonus to bandwidth of sentries, allowing it to actually effectively be part of an EW squad.

There, not so hard? BTW, as shown on the page two, a 5xsentry 7xrail (which is 2 rails more than it should have after balancing) with CN antimatter does 500dps. Well in line with other FC ships, and actually with in-line range too (wow, balanced!). With 5xrails, the Eos will then be able to be outdamaged by the other FC ships.
Now please, can some of us read the posts in this thread, and the 'Eos changes' thread, and understand that the serious Eos users agree that the Solo-Eos should never have been an option! The DAMAGE TO US IS IRRELEVANT, *IF* it has another role. Which currently it doesn't. The EW links are very specialised and therefore not commonly used. Putting other types of links on is dumb, when, as you say Zendoc, every % counts and can turn the tide of a battle, why use unbonussed links when you can use bonussed ones?
It formerly was a drone ship (just fyi, you say its not because it doesn't have drone dmg/hp bonuses - well, it does have a drone bonus: the DRONE BAY SIZE bonus - the only thing that bonus helps is DRNES. Thus its a drone ship.) Now, it can't do that effectively anymore - after all, 5xblasters plus 5xmeds is FC damage, true, but with pathetic range.
So lets check roles:
Drone ship - not really, anymore. 5xmeds is easily tankable (admittedly, 5xheavies is too, but noone seems to remember that when chanting 'BS SIZED WEAPONS! WAAAAH').
Solo Ship - nope, not anymore (and good riddance. We have an Astarte too, you know).
Fleet Command - not really. EW links mean that, unlike, say, the Vulture, the Eos when assisting a squad cannot do damage due to range limitations. Ew links mean that Eos will be unlikely to be picked for small gang fighting over a Claymore, which adds ever-useful speed, or a Damnnation which adds very-useful armour tanking ability, or a Vulture which adds sometimes-useful shield tanking ability.

....concluded below (damn limit)

Unworldly1
Gallente
Intergalactic Jesters
Posted - 2007.11.10 04:01:00 - [77]
 

.....so, maybe i'm missing something, but what CAN the Eos do that another Fleet Command can't do better? Previously it was damage, but, again, that's the reason for the Astarte existing. So what point is the Eos. If you want to fit unbonused links, then, you'd be mad to not use a Vulture which can assist the EW then, as well as actually add some damage to the fleet. If you're with an armour tanking EW gang (it could happen), then bring a damnnation with unbonused Ew links and armour links, because it'll survive longer.
Where's the poor little Eos after this "triple nerf" as Bellum puts it? I'll tell you: It's become one of EVE's primary dust gatherers in the corner of hangers throughout the galaxy.
Or, it's become scrap in space where someone has suicided it as they can no longer sell it for any meaningful amount.
Or, it's in a gang that couldn't find a Vulture, or Damnnation, of Claymore.

Kamen
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.11.10 04:14:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Kamen on 10/11/2007 04:14:15
Originally by: Unworldly1
.....so, maybe i'm missing something, but what CAN the Eos do that another Fleet Command can't do better? ...

.... so maybe i'm missing something, but CAN't the Eos do MORE damage than any Fleet Command STILL?

Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.10 04:21:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Kamen
Originally by: Unworldly1
.....so, maybe i'm missing something, but what CAN the Eos do that another Fleet Command can't do better? ...

.... so maybe i'm missing something, but CAN't the Eos do MORE damage than any Fleet Command STILL?


And what about that 7.5% armor rep amount bonus? Everyone seems to forget this one. It helps the Eos tank better just like the 7.5% shield boost bonus helps the Claymore. I don't see why one would tank better than the other.

The new Eos is fine.

Zendoc
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.10 04:37:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Unworldly1
...blah blah blah whine whine whine....


You sir are an idiot, and your slippery slope arguments are redudnant and nonsensicle. I never said the Eos shouldn't exist. Quite the contrary, I stated that ITS ARGUABLY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER FLEET COMMAND even after the nerf. What is it you think fleet commands are supposed to do? They don't have super powers! Eos = Fleet command with most dps and most drones. Kazing! We have a winner. None of the fleet command ships are that amazing. They run gang warefare mods! That's their purpose in a fleet. Yours has the added bonus to doing more damage than ANY OTHER FLEET COMMAND. Its not our fault that your other ships do insane damage and are capable of out DPSing tech IIs. You know what that spells? Your tech 1 ships should be nerfed. Guess what else, fleet commands are not meant for direct combat! They are support role ships! They BOOST THE GANG WITH 3 GANG ASSISTS, that's their purpose! The Eos can do that. If you want dps fly an astarte! I don't fly a claymore for dps, I fly a sleipnir for dps. Stop crying, your Eos is absolutely fine. It was ridiculous before, now it's fixed.

Incantare
Posted - 2007.11.10 04:46:00 - [81]
 

Different character, same old murder one threads.

Bentula
Posted - 2007.11.10 08:55:00 - [82]
 

So EOS is not the best fleetcommand for big fleets? Guess what, it never was. It was always a ship that excelled in small gangs, and it still does.

All those people that complain about its damage, you make me sick. Sorry thats about as friendly as i can say that, you dont get extra damage just cause your crap in your role. You also dont get granted wtf solocapability just cause your crap in fleets. And you dont get to do more damage than t1 ships just cause you sit in a t2(support).

It didnt work that way for the curse and pilgrim, it doesnt work that way for the apoc, and it wont work like that for the eos. So you have the worst fleetcommand? Deal with it. Somebody has to be the worst and this time its gallente.

If the infowarfare links are so horrible why did you train for the eos? They are fine for the people who actually need them. If you trained it for the firepower it had, fly a astarte instead.

Next thing we see is hulk pilots whining that they cant run lvl 3 missions ...

Kaker
Waiting for Palli
Posted - 2007.11.10 09:03:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Zendoc
Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 08:11:29
So the point is this.

The Eos is the fleet command ship, and unlike all of its fleet command ship breatheren, it was dishing out more DPS than its Field Command Ship counterpart. If you read the description, you will see that it states that the fleet command ships are not really made for direct combat, this is the reason they can use more than 1 gang mod at once.
The field command ship is supposed to be the powerhouse of the 2. Look at any other Fleet command ship, you will see its DPS is significantly lower than its field command twin, Claymore vs Sleipnir for example.

You asked what's the point? The Eos was vastly overpowered, it needed a nerf, and the game is better off because of it.


Are you thinking? Because if you look at all of the other Fleet commandships they all kept the same amount of weapons systems. Brutix just had 7 guns ferox had 5 vulture has 5. Add the t2 bonus to this you get a good ship that everyone whines about. Yet again ccp helps the whiners and doesnt listen to the other playerbase. 6 mil sp in drones wasted cause only 4 ships can use a full rack of heavy drones. X_X

Derrios
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.10 09:15:00 - [84]
 

I like how 90% of the people chiming in on all the Eos threads cant even fly the ship.

I now have a completely worthless fleet ship (still)

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.10 09:38:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Derrios
I like how 90% of the people chiming in on all the Eos threads cant even fly the ship.



Yeah. I guess expecting people to know what they are talking about is generally a bit too much to ask.

I fly the Eos and the Damnation, and post-nerf there is no reason to ever undock with the Eos. It sucks for the only role left for it (fleet support).

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.10 09:49:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Ogul on 10/11/2007 10:30:35
Originally by: Wrayeth

The thorax has equivalent or more DPS than the nighthawk, which is a FIELD command ship, meant for combat and not just gang support. The nighthawk is the Caldari astarte, and the thorax can match it for DPS.


That's hilarious.

The range difference between a Nighthawk and a Thorax is what? Around 80 km? Laughing

Are you going to complain that a close range gank Thorax can outdamage you fleet sniper battleship next?

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.10 10:11:00 - [87]
 

You are all right. Thorax does too much DPS, even in realistic setups. Please, please CCP, nerf all blasterboats!

Bentula
Posted - 2007.11.10 10:18:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Derrios
I like how 90% of the people chiming in on all the Eos threads cant even fly the ship.



Yeah. I guess expecting people to know what they are talking about is generally a bit too much to ask.

I fly the Eos and the Damnation, and post-nerf there is no reason to ever undock with the Eos. It sucks for the only role left for it (fleet support).



Not that i will ever undock in my eos again but ... wasnt the fleet support role the only role it was ever supposed to do? As i see it its kinda like minmatar EW, target painters Rolling Eyes.

What i, as a eos pilot who never used the warfare links cause i didnt ever need them, dont understand is why people dont just switch to astarte like i do? Its not that much worse than current eos in combat and the warfare links being kinda specialised isnt exactly news.

I mean its not like we depended on the eos for combat cause the astarte is so bad or something, we do have a viable alternative. You need the warfare links you fly eos, you want to blow stuff up you use the astarte. Those who actually used their links actually even got a buff cause they now have a better tank.

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.11.10 10:18:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Zendoc
Edited by: Zendoc on 09/11/2007 08:11:29
So the point is this.

The Eos is the fleet command ship, and unlike all of its fleet command ship breatheren, it was dishing out more DPS than its Field Command Ship counterpart. If you read the description, you will see that it states that the fleet command ships are not really made for direct combat, this is the reason they can use more than 1 gang mod at once.
The field command ship is supposed to be the powerhouse of the 2. Look at any other Fleet command ship, you will see its DPS is significantly lower than its field command twin, Claymore vs Sleipnir for example.

You asked what's the point? The Eos was vastly overpowered, it needed a nerf, and the game is better off because of it.


The point is IT ****ING SUCKS.

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.10 10:33:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Bentula

What i, as a eos pilot who never used the warfare links cause i didnt ever need them, dont understand is why people dont just switch to astarte like i do? Its not that much worse than current eos in combat and the warfare links being kinda specialised isnt exactly news.


Some people like drone boats.


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