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Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.15 01:24:00 - [361]
 

Inbred Amarians. if you spend less time sleeping with your sisters and more time developing proper Man size weapons (like smartbombs) then you woudnt be in the pickle you are in now.

Slap head, robe wearing imbreeders 4tl.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.11.15 01:48:00 - [362]
 

amarr rock you just need to know how to use them

Kash Ka
Amarr
House of Ka
Posted - 2007.11.15 02:03:00 - [363]
 

Edited by: Kash Ka on 15/11/2007 02:05:23
/signed

I have complained about how amarr suck in local and corp chat, but i never really could back up my points. Untill now thank you.

I would also like to mention that amarr are ment to have some decent frigs, and i myself love to fly AF's because the amarr cruisers suck so bad. Every time i fight another cruiser in a AF i loose but isnt the AF ment to be able to take out cruisers i mean the HAC's can easily kill BS's, well the mimatar and gallente ones anyway.

Amarr need to be looked at, decrease cap use, increase thermal dmg, decrease em resists on every ship or increase the bonuses, hell add new crystals that let us do more than just em and thermal. Please CCP give amarr a break!

EDIT: typos

Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Posted - 2007.11.15 02:30:00 - [364]
 

Originally by: Kash Ka
Edited by: Kash Ka on 15/11/2007 02:05:23
/signed

I have complained about how amarr suck in local and corp chat, but i never really could back up my points. Untill now thank you.

I would also like to mention that amarr are ment to have some decent frigs, and i myself love to fly AF's because the amarr cruisers suck so bad. Every time i fight another cruiser in a AF i loose but isnt the AF ment to be able to take out cruisers i mean the HAC's can easily kill BS's, well the mimatar and gallente ones anyway.

Amarr need to be looked at, decrease cap use, increase thermal dmg, decrease em resists on every ship or increase the bonuses, hell add new crystals that let us do more than just em and thermal. Please CCP give amarr a break!

EDIT: typos


No AF will kill a cruiser pilot of equal competence.

And the vengeance is leet, learn how to fly it. As is the malediction.

RossP Zoyka
Posted - 2007.11.15 03:12:00 - [365]
 

Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Kash Ka
Edited by: Kash Ka on 15/11/2007 02:05:23
/signed

I have complained about how amarr suck in local and corp chat, but i never really could back up my points. Untill now thank you.

I would also like to mention that amarr are ment to have some decent frigs, and i myself love to fly AF's because the amarr cruisers suck so bad. Every time i fight another cruiser in a AF i loose but isnt the AF ment to be able to take out cruisers i mean the HAC's can easily kill BS's, well the mimatar and gallente ones anyway.

Amarr need to be looked at, decrease cap use, increase thermal dmg, decrease em resists on every ship or increase the bonuses, hell add new crystals that let us do more than just em and thermal. Please CCP give amarr a break!

EDIT: typos


No AF will kill a cruiser pilot of equal competence.

And the vengeance is leet, learn how to fly it. As is the malediction.


And the crusader....

Don't mess with Amarr interceptorsTwisted Evil

Sofring Eternus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.15 07:35:00 - [366]
 

Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II

Heavy Pulse Laser II x7
Medium Nosferatu II

Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k
Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443
Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff
Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so)
Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger

Edit: That was in response to post 354.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.11.15 07:39:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: Sofring Eternus
Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II

Heavy Pulse Laser II x7
Medium Nosferatu II

Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k
Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443
Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff
Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so)
Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger

Edit: That was in response to post 354.


please add the base amor em resistance on the hurricane plus an active harderner, the all reisitances type.

now do the same to the other damage type.

Gamer Maximus
Posted - 2007.11.15 08:13:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Sofring Eternus
Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II

Heavy Pulse Laser II x7
Medium Nosferatu II

Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k
Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443
Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff
Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so)
Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger

Edit: That was in response to post 354.


You need to take into account the other ships setup; what if you were webbed and the hurricane was loaded with Heavy Missles and Arty Cannons? How about the diffrence in speed cuasing a general lowering of DPS on the hurricane? Seriously people, take into account how the other ship is used before making points like this, as this is totaly irrelevent.

Khes
Posted - 2007.11.15 08:28:00 - [369]
 

Thanks to OPs intital comparison, now we see that CALDARI need a DPS BOOST. Cool

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.11.15 08:47:00 - [370]
 

Originally by: Sofring Eternus
Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II

Heavy Pulse Laser II x7
Medium Nosferatu II

Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k
Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443
Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff
Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so)
Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger

Edit: That was in response to post 354.


Is this a joke?

800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

626 DPS, 45,000 hit points, a repair unit, STILL faster than that harbinger, better damage types, variable damage types, faster drones.

PeacefullNub
Posted - 2007.11.15 10:07:00 - [371]
 

Harbinger the worst tier2 BC. It is recognized even by those who does not see "amarr problem". Could someone compare tier1 BC or tier2-3 cruisers?

GoddessHekate
Posted - 2007.11.15 10:21:00 - [372]
 

Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.

Cursus Publicus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.15 10:40:00 - [373]
 

Even though I'm just starting the game, I've been sticking to amarrian ships and will stick to them in future too, despite seeing the slight differences already in frigates. The ship I'm interested in the most is the Providence freighter for the looks anyway. Cool

One thing confuses me though. I've always wondered about the damage crystals in the lasers of amarr ships. Sure, most of is is supposed to be electromagnetic but why the heck does infrared crystal have "EM damage slightly increased" when IR radiation is supposed to be pure thermal radiation for all that I know. Same thing with at least microwave and gamma radiation too. MW is basically supposed to accelerate the atoms it's affecting resulting in increased heat on the object, and gamma radiation ionizes target atoms (EM damage) but in the game they pretty much do the opposite things.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:14:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: Hardin on 15/11/2007 11:16:30
I wasn't going to post this here as it's not an Amarrian problem but higher authorities think I should ugh

Stop the whining. Be Amarrian and be proud!

Why choose Amarrian:

Exclusivity - join EVE's most exclusive club

EVE's coolest looking ships.

The best pound for pound battleship in the game (Armageddon)

EVE's coolest ship names -Damnation / Apoclaypse / Armageddon / Curse (wtf is a thorax after all?)

The coolest people are Amarrian - Stavros / Sir Molle - to name just two

The most powerful RP alliance in EVE is Amarrian (CVA)

You can own slaves legally

If you do get pwned you have a ready made excuse :p

The oldest still active corp in EVE is Amarr only (PIE Inc.)

Amarrians don't sleep - we wait.

You get the chance to wear cool robes and hoods.

One day the 'Reclaiming' will begin and then the heretics will be sorry.

We haven't got an Emperor but we still rule half the galaxy. Suck on that slaves!

Lasers rock and look pretty.

Amarrians don't wear watches. We decide what time it is.


Amarr Victor!

Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:22:00 - [375]
 

Excellent analysis, and (as a mostly Amarr-spec'd Gallente!) signed with feeling.

Sadly the only Amarr problem CCP seem to have got around to fixing in the last 2 years or so is finally allowing us to mention the Damnation here without censoring it every time! (I hope!)

Oki Riverson
Amarr
Pre-nerfed Tactics
SOUL CARTEL
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:26:00 - [376]
 

I'm Amarrian spec'd. And it feels completely inflexible.

/me Signed.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:27:00 - [377]
 

OP needs to rename thread "Amarr Internment Camp"

Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:27:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: PeacefullNub
Harbinger the worst tier2 BC. It is recognized even by those who does not see "amarr problem". Could someone compare tier1 BC or tier2-3 cruisers?


Actually the harby can readly be compared to the brutix, and you will find out that the harby is easier to fit, and that is about it...

Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:29:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: GoddessHekate
Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.


I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)

And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.

N1fty
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:35:00 - [380]
 

Edited by: N1fty on 15/11/2007 11:40:03
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: GoddessHekate
Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.


I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)

And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.


I always thought a nice boost to Amarr (and other races to a lesser extent) would be to include a 'Reload all with <ammotype>' function to the guns rightclick menu.

This would mean Amarr can change crystals as fast as possible, so they can actually complete a switch quickly enough to keep up with the low falloff of lasers.

It would make things MUCH better with regards to T2 crystals and that annoying bug where turrets STEAL crystals from eachother.

Finally it would probably reduce lag because the server recieves one 'Reload all with <ammoType>' command instead of up to 8 individual reload requests.

I suggested this idea several times on the game development forums, but it never recieved dev input.

EDIT: Found some linkage to my posts:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=505299

I also had an idea about module grouping, I think CCP might be bringing something like this in, not sure.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=542094

Bentula
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:37:00 - [381]
 

Edited by: Bentula on 15/11/2007 11:44:45
Originally by: Cursus Publicus
Even though I'm just starting the game, I've been sticking to amarrian ships and will stick to them in future too, despite seeing the slight differences already in frigates. The ship I'm interested in the most is the Providence freighter for the looks anyway. Cool

One thing confuses me though. I've always wondered about the damage crystals in the lasers of amarr ships. Sure, most of is is supposed to be electromagnetic but why the heck does infrared crystal have "EM damage slightly increased" when IR radiation is supposed to be pure thermal radiation for all that I know. Same thing with at least microwave and gamma radiation too. MW is basically supposed to accelerate the atoms it's affecting resulting in increased heat on the object, and gamma radiation ionizes target atoms (EM damage) but in the game they pretty much do the opposite things.


If we go by logik lasers should deal explosive damage. Cause you know, they heat a small area up in a very fast way, one could even say they turn that area into a plasma. Things that heat up expand, and if something that is surrounded by solid matter starts to expand very fast ... that is called a explosion, and a ugly one at that due to the debris of the solid matter rapidly advancing away from the center of the area the expansion started.

P.S. No you cant reproduce that effect with a magnifying glass and some sunshine Laughing.

Edit: But an egg and a microwave ... that should illustrate the point somewhat.

Brianna Talnor
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:42:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: N1fty
Edited by: N1fty on 15/11/2007 11:40:03
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: GoddessHekate
Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.


I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)

And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.


I always thought a nice boost to Amarr (and other races to a lesser extent) would be to include a 'Reload all with <ammotype>' function to the guns rightclick menu.

This would mean Amarr can change crystals as fast as possible, so they can actually complete a switch quickly enough to keep up with the low falloff of lasers.

It would make things MUCH better with regards to T2 crystals and that annoying bug where turrets STEAL crystals from eachother.

Finally it would probably reduce lag because the server recieves one 'Reload all with <ammoType>' command instead of up to 8 individual reload requests.

I suggested this idea several times on the game development forums, but it never recieved dev input.

EDIT: Found some linkage to my posts:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=505299

I also had an idea about module grouping, I think CCP might be bringing something like this in, not sure.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=542094


I may be way off but reloading all ammo at once is coming in the next expansion. I swear I read it in a dev post.

BobMoo22
Endless Destruction
Legiunea ROmana
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:43:00 - [383]
 

I stopped reading after I saw that you calculated the dps of the hype with 3 Mag Stabs. The hype has a total of 6 lowslots. Filling up half of those with mag stabs is simply ******ed. Sure, your arguments look good on paper, but they would get popped in half a second in actual combat.

N1fty
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.11.15 11:45:00 - [384]
 

Originally by: Brianna Talnor
I may be way off but reloading all ammo at once is coming in the next expansion. I swear I read it in a dev post.


Yeah I think they are bringing in module grouping. But maybe we should remind them about it incase they 'forget'...

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.15 12:46:00 - [385]
 

Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.

NoobALTS
Posted - 2007.11.15 12:54:00 - [386]
 

Edited by: NoobALTS on 15/11/2007 12:54:55
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.


Well, I guess that could be proof that whoever designed Amarr could not be bothered to finish them!

Hydrogen
Enterprise Estonia
Session Changes
Posted - 2007.11.15 13:05:00 - [387]
 

/signed

Had fun reading some of those replies here...

Sofring Eternus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.15 13:27:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Sofring Eternus
...


please add the base amor em resistance on the hurricane plus an active harderner, the all reisitances type.

now do the same to the other damage type.


Like I said, I was using the setups provided in the previous post, which used 3 active hardners for KIN/THR/EXP. And there is no such thing as an all resistances active armor hardner.
The kill time I provided assumes 75% resist for the Hurricane against all Harbinger damage (when the shield and the hull will actually have less). The kill time for the Hurricane assumed only 50% resist for all the Harbinger hitpoints.(again, shield will have more EXP resist, and hull will have 60% from DCUII)

Originally by: Gamer Maximus
Originally by: Sofring Eternus
...


You need to take into account the other ships setup; what if you were webbed and the hurricane was loaded with Heavy Missles and Arty Cannons? How about the diffrence in speed cuasing a general lowering of DPS on the hurricane? Seriously people, take into account how the other ship is used before making points like this, as this is totaly irrelevent.


I did take into account the other ships setup. They key parts about optimal and falloff mean if the Harbinger can keep the Hurricane at 10km then it will severely reduce incoming damage since that puts the Hurricane at almost double falloff (reducing DPS to 25% of EFT), while only half falloff for the Harbinger (reducing DPS to 75% of EFT).

@Goumindong
Yes I know there are better setups, and I'm pretty sure you can figure out a better fit than I can most any day of the week. It just annoyed me that the Harbinger was setup for dual reps, when that really isnt feasable for Amarr ships, they just dont have the spare cap to run them. Dual reps are for ships with rep bonus or capless weapons (drones/missiles/projectiles) IMO.

N1fty
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.11.15 14:32:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.


Yes and lets not forget about the awesome skinning job done on the Apoc. I wonder if the Trinity Apoc still retains that 'feature'.
Not that anyone will notice; nobody uses Apoc's.

Overall Amarr feel a bit forgotten, a little neglected. Bit of a polish, a minor tweak here and there, might be fit for public consumption Smile

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2007.11.15 14:48:00 - [390]
 

/signed

The Devs are escaped Minmatar refugees or something... Why the hate?
BTW, to people who point out about the Malediction/Vengueance (bah, all Khanid ships), they are not Amarr, they are Khanid, lol (sorry, had to say it)

Jokes aside, those ships don`t rely on lasers, thus they don`t suck!
Had I known Khanids were going to rely on missiles, I would have trained some when I started the game! CCP totally hates Amarr, dude.


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