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Glacialis Routa
Caldari
Aditi Incorporated
Posted - 2007.11.07 17:42:00 - [1]
 

As all proper Caldari are aware, the dutiful pursuit of efficiency is of highest importance and the purest virtue. Why then, is the Caldari State allowing inefficiency to run rampant among it's policies? I'm talking about the so-called 'natural procreation'.

The creation of new humans is fraught with randomness, and causing the labour resources available to the corporations to be highly heterogenous, which makes the smooth running of operations more difficult than they need to be. Starting from simple genetic matter recombination during gamete meiosis, and later on during the fertilisation of the ovum, and continuing with the different methods of upbringing parents give to the children under their care, things have too much randomness and uncontrolled factors.

This randomness causes the management of workforce to have to cope with a lot of psychological and, to some extent, physiological differences. These differences also affect markets, as you have to spend considerable time in analysing your segments and then picking the most suitable one as your target.

All this could be avoided if the traditional way of producing children would be prohibited, and the creation of new humans would be the sole responsibility of the State via the creation of tube children, that would then be in highly regulated State creches until reaching suitable age for integration into the labour pool. This way the genome could be made more safe from random mutations that can spoil the whole individual for the community. It could also be used to identify and remove unwanted traits by close observations of problem cases and their corresponding genetic make up.

I do believe, however, that a certain amount of randomness is required to make the populace more resistant to harmful natural phenomena, and to make sure that there is enough variation in characteristics to discover new useful genetic combinations.

Some randomness in psychological make-up is also required to allow for innovation, as this is mandatory for the development of sciences and myriad of other things.

I'm more after the way the Jovians went, rather than the Sansha.

The current ethical limitations are too reminiscent of Gallentean philosophy to be a pure Caldari thought. We must rid ourselves from such tainted reminders of our past and to truly go our own way.

John Newport
Caldari
Newport Family Trust Fund
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:12:00 - [2]
 

An interesting subject Routa-haani.

The Caldari State has some old en powerful families that entirely rely on natural breeding to preserve and aquire good genes. The Newport Family however have always bred in the form of natural procreation with the finest counterparts in the State but does this with the utmost care in selection. We have done very good business in procuring the finest genepool regarding their influence on developping good business traits if given proper education.

As we are social entrepeneurs in our family, the wellbeing of our workforce is always the most important. We've thought about aquiring slaves like the Amarr business relations suggested, but we found Minmatar to be too unreliable and a controlling matter would arise if we would use our own social methods instead of the Amarr surgical/toxic methods. The Gallente .... ah well, we all know why they aren't an option.

Your solution might be fine for the working class, but for our more educated Citizens it would be better to procure the genepool that is created through natural procreation for preserving our longstanding familyname to the highest standards. Perhaps some little genetic engineering in our procreation process, instead of using some implants would be a good direction to go in?

John Newport

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:41:00 - [3]
 

***These veiws are my own***

I think you are missing some of the inefficiencies that your solution creates. For example you would place the burden of child rearing on the Megacorps versus on the genetic parents of the child, this will divert resources from their main goals and activities. You also miss the point that the process by which natural conception occurs is also a recreational activity and a method by which the couple becomes closer uniting two families creating a larger entity. Those natural children are themselves a unifying factor.

Also the output of employees and their overall efficiency may increase in order to supply a better life to their offspring. While the employees own efficiency may go up a decent amount the reward for their increased efficiency may not need to be as high or can be rewarded by creating opportunities for their offspring.

If all the citizens of the State were parented by the State, which itself sounds like some Federation idea of equal rights and opportunity for all children, I would be concerned about the loss of creativity and ingenuity that the individual genetic differences within the greater whole brings.

If we are all the same then the whole will operate exactly as the Individual created in the State/Megacorp run program. This will make organizations predictable, easy to manipulate by outsiders, and in my view weak.

Glacialis Routa
Caldari
Aditi Incorporated
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:48:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Glacialis Routa on 07/11/2007 19:01:00
To John Newport: Risking the ire of your family when speaking as a capsuleer to capsuleer, but I do not see the point in maintaining such archaic institutions as families and kin. The leaders of the State, more than anyone, should be carefully engineered and educated to be able to give the best possible responses and make the best decisions.

I'm a Caldari, born and bred, as I am a tube child myself, and thus have never had the burden of the deeds of my family to hinder me or limit my perspectives. I rather see the State itself as my family, and thus have great commitment to it's wellbeing and benefit. The traditional family concept, in my opinion, just breaks the focus of what truly matters.

Glacialis Routa
Caldari
Aditi Incorporated
Posted - 2007.11.07 18:59:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Dex Nederland

If we are all the same then the whole will operate exactly as the Individual created in the State/Megacorp run program. This will make organizations predictable, easy to manipulate by outsiders, and in my view weak.


This, I must admit is a valid concern, and a one I didn't think of.

Of the parents' efficiency increase I can't know of, as I have no intention of becoming one, nor could have seen that in my parents, as I have none. How I would see it is that the child is an unnecessary distraction, rather leading to lowered productivity, despite hightened motivation.

I see the creches run by the State and it's constituent parts more as an investment in the future, than a distraction. Like growing grain to get the benefit from it in the future. Obviously something would need to be done to the point I quoted you about above.

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2007.11.07 19:24:00 - [6]
 

While you may have shed the restraints of presumed Gallentean ethical considerations, you've more than compensated with outright ineptitude in not only solving the crisis of inneficiency but identifying the problem precisely. I would love nothing more than to be an observer in the room when you present to State officials the notion that natural procreation is obsolete. The laughter alone would be priceless.

The inherent flaw in your reasoning is that an entire workforce's procreation habits need to be restricted and the subsequent development of offspring controlled vigorously. The process you've described is wholly inneficient when reasoned that the workforce is not the root cause of inneficiency, rather the net result of poor management and allocation techniques by the upper echelons.

Rather, it would be significantly improved with the controlled development of a much smaller subset, with the intent of developing more efficient processes that the workforce may enact. A closer look at the competency of the Caldari State education system would be far more effective and viable solution in resolving your dilemma.

Furthermore, the attribute that elicits the most amusement from your proposed solution is the conclusion that human reproduction needs to be controlled. Removing one of humanity's primary motivators without adequate consideration would be a suicidal decision with disastrous consequences. In short, the ruling caste of your society wouldn't be in power for very long.

The dilemma of inefficiency in the workforce isn't a topic new to science, nor is it restricted to the Caldari people. Ethics aside, there are far more effective techniques to controlling a population than rounding them up like livestock. However, your insistence at blaming Gallenteans for your ineptitude and inability to provide a practical solution to your problem displays the inherent cause of the debacle to begin with.

If I didn't know any better I'd have thought you were educated at Hedion University.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2007.11.07 20:22:00 - [7]
 

Yes, because with psychopathic slavers following programs of eugenics, genocide and forced breeding in the name of a demonstrably false religion, what the universe needs now is less ethics.

Roy Gordon
Caldari
Caldari Advanced Response Division
Power Of 3
Posted - 2007.11.07 22:45:00 - [8]
 

As a 'Tube'e' myself, I think myself rather fortunate that I don't have a family to concern myself with. The State is my family, and my loyalty does not have to be divided between the State and any blood family.
And no, I have no desire to trace the parentage of my clone cells, it just does not bother me.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.11.07 23:26:00 - [9]
 


Probably because the short-term advantage of homogenous population is negated by the long-term disadvantage of not having the population evolve through natural selection.

Every time there is a natural birth, there is a small chance that the offspring will be superior to even the best vat-grown specimen.

So while other societies would be evolving, the Caldari genepool would remain stagnant.

Vendrin
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.11.08 07:42:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Glacialis Routa
I'm more after the way the Jovians went, rather than the Sansha.


And the Jove are doing wonderfully surviving as a species aren't they? Tinkering with genetics and keeping natural selection from doing it's part is not the wisest of courses to plot.


Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.08 09:14:00 - [11]
 

If you want the Caldari to have more efficient procreation, I strongly suggest you send at least half your population for a shave.

Please.

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.08 09:43:00 - [12]
 

The Creche program that you speak so highly of was only supposed to be a temporary solution to the temporary problem of low population. However, once it was instituted, the megacorps saw that they were creating an entire class of worker who saw the State as both mother and father; an entire class who gave their loyalty to the Caldari State rather than to the Caldari people.

And so, even though the State economy has grown sluggish and the addition of more workers to the labor pool are unnecessary ... the program continues. And our proud traditions of honoring family and the deeds of our ancestors continue to erode. And now you suggest that the Caldari people should be forced to discard these traditions entirely; to cast aside the very traditions that made us strong.

Fool. You would remake our people into an army of slaves who believe themselves citizens; an entire race of Caldari Kameiras. You would place the fate of our entire race in the hands of the same corrupt megacorporations who can't even be trusted to properly run the creches already in existence. And you suggest that we do this in the name of 'efficiency'! As if efficiency were something to be worshipped as the Amarrians worship their imaginary blood-stained god.

Natural selection made us a proud and strong people. Nature provided us with our competitive spirit and our indomitable will. It led us to free our people from the soft oppression of the Federation and it will continue to serve us well long after the State is no more.

And before argue that the State will be eternal, know that the rulers of the Raata thought the same of their empire. The Raata Empire endured for more than 35 centuries. The State isn't even two centuries old and it's already cracking. And if you represent the future of the State, the time of its death and the coming of next great Caldari Revolution must be at hand. Our people will be free again. It is our nature.

Number 17
Caldari
COLD-Wing
Posted - 2007.11.08 09:52:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Number 17 on 08/11/2007 09:56:25
Quote:
If you want the Caldari to have more efficient procreation, I strongly suggest you send at least half your population for a shave.

Please.

-Eva-



DONE:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


smooth as baby skin.

EDIT: Mr. Ledoux types faster than i shave

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2007.11.08 12:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

Probably because the short-term advantage of homogenous population is negated by the long-term disadvantage of not having the population evolve through natural selection.

Every time there is a natural birth, there is a small chance that the offspring will be superior to even the best vat-grown specimen.

So while other societies would be evolving, the Caldari genepool would remain stagnant.


For once, I'd have to agree with the Matari. The rest of you are as such missing the point. Fossil record shows most speciese that give up sexual reproduction go extinct fairly quickly (hence why you'll have a time trying to find a living example). Heck, even fredo's have sex

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2007.11.08 13:50:00 - [15]
 

***These views are my own***

Quote:
The Creche program that you speak so highly of was only supposed to be a temporary solution to the temporary problem of low population. However, once it was instituted, the megacorps saw that they were creating an entire class of worker who saw the State as both mother and father; an entire class who gave their loyalty to the Caldari State rather than to the Caldari people.


I hope the creche's are encouraging their charges to be loyal to their family, Corp, and the State. Obviously they are not completely efficient or Mr. Ledoux would not have betrayed those things and become an anti-State pirate.

Each Corporation that provides creches does need to look at their curriculum and care and determine what is needed. Most of them are effective and safe environments for the children of corporate employees. Mr. Ledoux points to an article stating 7 creches across the Sivala, Yashunen and Iivinen systems, how many creches are there across those systems? 10s? 100s? 1000s? maybe more? Does this mean that all of them have such problems? No, not every official is corrupt.

Quote:
the coming of next great Caldari Revolution must be at hand. Our people will be free again.


I am curious what Mr Ledoux means by freedom. Is he speaking of individual freedom, freedom for the group to pursue its own goals, or something more like anarchy.

Why encourage an revolution of individual freedoms when merely a few centuries ago we fought to remove ourselves just such a system? The will of the people, true democracy at its best? More like Tyranny of the Masses.

Sex is an important part of being human, reproduction, purposeful or accidental is part of the human condition.

However this is the State and so if Aditi Incorporated wants to internally ban natural human procreation in favor of artificial technology maintained procreation that is the decision of Aditi Incorporated.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Risen Angels
Posted - 2007.11.08 14:27:00 - [16]
 

Completely disregarding the issue of culture, the first question you'd have to answer would be concerning the quality of individual that comes out of a creche program: How many tube-grown Caldari fill "cog" jobs, versus how many that pioneer new things (corporations, military strategies, etc). How does that compare with the population at large?

I know there is a conception of Caldari aspiring to be faceless workers. I also know that this is blatantly not true. For all the power of the megacorps, each was started by a single person with a single idea. Each was created to seek for something, or in response to something, and this act of creation is the primary benefit that those creators brought to the State. Each was a large change, which brought immense rewards to the State and population as a whole.

And you propose a large change, with the benefit of increasing inertia (by eliminating change). Because, historically, change and individuality has always been such a bad thing for the State...

John Newport
Caldari
Newport Family Trust Fund
Posted - 2007.11.08 14:58:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi
Completely disregarding the issue of culture, the first question you'd have to answer would be concerning the quality of individual that comes out of a creche program: How many tube-grown Caldari fill "cog" jobs, versus how many that pioneer new things (corporations, military strategies, etc). How does that compare with the population at large?

I know there is a conception of Caldari aspiring to be faceless workers. I also know that this is blatantly not true. For all the power of the megacorps, each was started by a single person with a single idea. Each was created to seek for something, or in response to something, and this act of creation is the primary benefit that those creators brought to the State. Each was a large change, which brought immense rewards to the State and population as a whole.

And you propose a large change, with the benefit of increasing inertia (by eliminating change). Because, historically, change and individuality has always been such a bad thing for the State...


Agreed, one nation of farce and freedom in this universe, led by a single straw-man, is enough.

John Newport

Natalcya Katla
Naqam
Posted - 2007.11.08 15:29:00 - [18]
 

This is an interesting subject. In fact, I have personally long held that CONCORD should develop its own tube child and creche program, much along the same lines as the Caldari State, and Astropolitan Front has already instituted such programs on a private basis in all of our major offices.

The children grown here are made from thoroughly mixed-breed genetic samples, meaning each of them will grow up with blood from every major race flowing through their veins. They will be trained by professional pedagogues and taught the Astropolitan mindset from birth, preventing the risk of racist influence and obsolete dependancy to dirtside culture that would come with being raised in a "natural" family.

That is not to say we forbid natural procreation among our employees, as that would indeed be a futile project. The contracts signed by the parents determine what they can and what they can't teach their children, however, and the children are taught in school (and through the many mandatory extracurricular activities) to be on guard against anti-Astropolitan influences at home, and to report such things to their teachers and officers if they do happen.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2007.11.08 17:21:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 08/11/2007 18:52:59

Once again, I find myself largely in agreement with Mr. Ledoux. The Caldari State was founded to protect the proud traditions of its people, those surrounding family high among them, and even the corporations are bound by those traditions.

The corporations, the CEP, the State-- all of these are merely tools for protecting and advancing what the Caldari believe in most strongly: family and community. Because these tools dominate so much of our day-to-day lives, we sometimes forget this, and such forgetfulness is in the interest only of those who would abuse these tools for the sake of their own power. And despite our best efforts, it should be obvious that such people do exist, and, at least in places, do hold the reins of power.

The alternative Mr. Ledoux suggests, however, that the State should fall, I must consider premature and somewhat short sighted. It is true that the Caldari people would survive such a calamity (and make no mistake, the fall of the State would be a very messy business), and that new structures would take form in the resulting chaos. I would remind Mr. Ledoux that what remained in the wake of the Raata was neither admirable nor very effective: it was a collection of little warring states which made up in petty bickering what they lacked in direction. Were the State to fracture along regional, planetary, or, worst of all, corporate lines, the results would be no prettier, and probably a good deal less so. The Raata remnants weren't capable of orbital bombardment.

If the State is salvageable, it should by all means be salvaged. It will not be salvaged, however, by tossing aside our history and traditions in the name of efficiency. Efficiency is a virtue, yes, but, like any virtue, it is a virtue because it tends to be a constructive force in our lives and society. Taken to an extreme, however, a virtue becomes a vice, a force which tears at the very society which upholds it.

Moderation, please, in all things. Let's not forget the other virtues in pursuit of this one.


 

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