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Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:17:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 08/12/2007 10:03:08
Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 04/11/2007 17:42:47
I have completely rewritten this first post for clarity and accuracy. Original post can be found at Eve-search.

The knowledgebase article on gaining security status is here.
The knowledgebase article on where you can travel with your security status is here.

You can view your current security status by right clicking your name in local and selecting "view member details." The retrieval of your security status is buggy so you will want to do this about 5 times to get the most recent value.

You can view security status adjustments by opening your character sheet and selecting the security status tab (will need to select a different tab and then the security status tab again to refresh). Alternatively you can click on the standings tab, scroll down to CONCORD, right click them and view transactions.

Formulas
Security status will need to be entered as a decimal in the following formulas. 0.1% = 0.001

The formula for a security status gain is:
current_security_status + (10 - current_security_status) x security_status_gain = new_security_status
As an example, if you currently have -1.5 security status and you receive a 0.25% increase, it would be
-1.5 + (10 - -1.5) x 0.0025 =
-1.5 + 11.5 x 0.0025 =
-1.5 + 0.02875 = -1.47125 (will show as -1.471)

The formula for a security status loss is:
current_security_status + (10 + current_security_status) x security_status_loss = new_security_status
As an example, if you currently have -1.5 security status and you pod someone (-12.5%)
-1.5 + (10 + -1.5) x -0.125 = -2.5625 (will show as -2.563)
The penalty for aggression is -0.5%, ship kill is -2.0% and giving the podding is -12.5%.

Looking at these two formulas you see that the lower your status is the more you gain from ratting and the less you lose from criminal acts.

Increasing your security status
As the linked article states, you increase your security status by killing NPC pirates (rats). I do not know 100% how this works but I'll describe it to the best of my knowledge. When you kill a rat in a system, the game starts a timer and it remembers the biggest rat you've killed so far. After about 10 minutes, when you kill another rat the game will grant you a security status increase based on that biggest rat you killed. It then starts a new timer for your next increase. The number of rats you kill doesn't matter. It is possible to kill 1 rat per 10 minutes and gain a security status increase every 10 minutes.
There is a way to rat in multiple systems killing 1 rat in each so that you gain a security status increase more than once per 10 minutes. I am not really sure on the in's and out's of this.
0.0 space battleship rats grant the largest security status increases outside of faction / officer spawns. As you see in the below chart, it is very important to be killing the largest rat you can find if you need to gain a lot of security status back.

bounty Sec %

500k 0.16
650k 0.17
800k 0.18
950k 0.19
1100k 0.20
1250k 0.21
1400k 0.22
1550k 0.23
1700k 0.24
1850k 0.25


How long will it take me to recover from -10?
Ter Fordal has given us some nice equations to calculate how many security status increases you need to recover from a certain security status in a post below.

His math and mine agree that if you are getting a 0.25% increase (a 1.85m bounty battleship) every 10 minutes, it will take 34 hours of ratting to get from -10 to -2.

Fast Talk
Fast Talk is now currently working correctly. Scroll down to my later post to see the table of how fast talk affects increase %.

Wind Ictiva
Delta Kappa Gamma
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:30:00 - [2]
 

thanks for that mate. that math looks real impressive, at least in my drunken state right now. as im sure it will when im sober.

however i think i recall my friend ratting himself up a bit faster than that. cant be sure ofc, not being completely sober right nowVery Happy

what level of fast talk do you have?

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:42:00 - [3]
 

It used to be that you could change solar systems, kill a rat, get a security status increase, switch solar systems, kill a rat, get a security status increase, etc.

They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently.

I actually don't have fast talk as I heard that it didn't help much. Maybe I'll train it in the future and see what the difference is for the security status increase.

Wind Ictiva
Delta Kappa Gamma
Posted - 2007.11.03 01:20:00 - [4]
 

yeah ive heard many think fast talk doesnt do anything. id love definite proof on that, one way or another.

Flinx Evenstar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.03 01:26:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 03/11/2007 01:26:14
Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
I was watching my security status slowly increase while ratting and started wondering the math behind it.




This is a good example of how dull ratting for sec actually is Laughing Of all the things you could have dreamed of while you were semi afk pressing F1-8...you chose maths Embarassed

Even maths is more exiting than ratting


Lord Bleu
Darkstorm Command
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.11.03 01:26:00 - [6]
 

here's my simplified formula

shoot 1 x npc rat, sec status = increase
shoot 1 x player (low sec) sec status = decrease
shoot 1 x player pod (low sec) sec status = decrease OMFG!
shoot 1 x player 0.0, sec status = aint moving

Now I didnt use a calculator for that but I'm -99.9% sure my figures are correct!

Corwain
Posted - 2007.11.03 02:29:00 - [7]
 

Bookmarked. I call for a sticky!

Arekhon
Eternal Perseverance
B A N E
Posted - 2007.11.03 04:48:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Arekhon on 03/11/2007 04:48:41
I have been ratting an alt back up from -5 currently at
-3.85 and what I've been doing is killing the .17% to .19% bs's in one system then jump to next system and kill another one, and back again. When I do that I get 2 sec increases 7-8ins apart then the third come and 15-16 after the second, then it repeats. Is this cause I'm changing systems?


Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
Posted - 2007.11.03 05:29:00 - [9]
 

193? Ffs, long way to go. Forget ever going back up.

Vele Nori
Amarr
Dakinii
Posted - 2007.11.03 08:22:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Wind Ictiva
yeah ive heard many think fast talk doesnt do anything. id love definite proof on that, one way or another.

my friend got fast talk trained one level and when he kills some rats he says he gets same boost to sec status on his character sheet showing up as he had without the skill

Vele Nori
Amarr
Dakinii
Posted - 2007.11.03 08:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently.

Do you have a link to where it says that they changed that? Or is this speaking from experience?

Ter Fordal
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Ter Fordal on 03/11/2007 15:15:57
I made a post on this a few weeks ago, obviously raising sec status really is that boring that even logarithms are more interesting. Same maths as yours but giving the number of rats needed to get a certain change in sec status directly:


Originally by: Ter Fordal

I'm bored whilst ratting for sec status so I worked out how long it was going to take.

S - current sec status F - final sec status P - fractional increase per rat
n - number you need to kill

n = ln( 10-F / 10-S ) / ln (1-P)


eg. I am at -4, I want to be 0 again and typical rats I am killing give a 0.2% or 0.002 increase in sec status.

so n = ln (10/14) / ln 0.998 = 168 rats

If you are waiting 15 mins for each one this is 42 hours
If you jumping systems and managing one every 4 mins this is 11 hours



for decreases in sec status it is very similar

n = ln( 10+F / 10+S ) / ln (1-P)


eg. I am at 0, I am heading for -9.5 and I am aggressing (0.005), killing (0.02) and podding (0.125, total 0.15 decrease)

n = ln (0.5/10) / ln(0.85) = 18 victims


More usefully for me when staying on the outlaw threshold, one suicide job ~5 rats = 30 mins good ratting, yarrrr!




So your calc of -10 to -2 with 0.0025 rats is:

ln (12/20) / ln (0.9975) = 204 rats = 34 hours at 10mins a rat, so we are in agreement.

Ter Fordal
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:13:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vele Nori
Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
They changed that. So now the most you can hope for is one security status increase per 10 minutes and the best with just plain asteroid rats is 0.25% So unless my math is way off the 34 hour figure is close to how things stand currently.

Do you have a link to where it says that they changed that? Or is this speaking from experience?




This was definitely still working a couple of weeks ago. Seems to be every 15 mins in my experience before you can kill one if you stay in the system but if you keep jumping and killing you do get more frequent increases.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 03/11/2007 15:26:34
The bit about not being able to switch any systems anymore was based off of a developer quote. I will play around with trying to bypass the 10 minute delay today and see what happens.

Nice math with the logarithms there. I was just playing around in excel and did it the long way.

As far as fast talk goes, the way I understand it, it just increases the security status %. Exactly how and by how much would determine how useful it really is. I don't know if it adds so that at level 4 you are getting 20% bonus or it multiplies so at level 4 you are getting 21.55% bonus. I'm going to try to get level 1 and 2 and see what numbers it gives. Then I'll see how much time it saves.

Oh and to the guy who mentioned 15 minutes, I'm 100% sure it's 10 minutes if you stay in the same system.
You would start by killing a frigate to start the timer. Then kill a high bounty battleship to ensure you got the battleship security gain. Then wait 10 minutes (can see time you killed something via your journal). Then when 10 minutes is up, kill a frigate or anything close by to trigger the new timer and then go find a battleship to ensure you get the high security status gain again.

Ter Fordal
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 03/11/2007 15:26:34

Oh and to the guy who mentioned 15 minutes, I'm 100% sure it's 10 minutes if you stay in the same system.
You would start by killing a frigate to start the timer. Then kill a high bounty battleship to ensure you got the battleship security gain. Then wait 10 minutes (can see time you killed something via your journal). Then when 10 minutes is up, kill a frigate or anything close by to trigger the new timer and then go find a battleship to ensure you get the high security status gain again.


Thats really useful to know. I have been waiting until the new entry appears under 'show transactions' for concord but seems this must be delayed by 5 mins or so.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.03 15:59:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 03/11/2007 16:43:19
I watch the security status tab of the character sheet. You have to switch tabs to get it to update but it keeps a running list with the times. I was noticing when I was ratting constantly that the times would be 11-12 minutes apart. I got it so that I would wait until 10 minutes was exactly up and then kill a frigate and *ding*, security status update.

edit: just wanted to add that this is not a 100% accurate guide before people find more inaccuracies. This is something I threw together one night while ratting myself numb. I have noticed strange things myself like a security status increase occur spontaneously if all I've killed are small ships in the past 10 minutes. I've gone afk for an hour, come back and killed a rat and triggered an old security status update and other times I'll go afk for 30 minutes and it will trigger a security status update while I'm just sitting there doing nothing.

Quaintaina
Minmatar
Leela's Lamas
Posted - 2007.11.03 19:38:00 - [17]
 

the life of Quaintaina in relation to sec status increase is to walk in circles:

1: CEO trying to convince me to go rat for sec status so I can join high sec wars. This takes approximately 1 week.

2: I begin the tedious process of going from -9,9 to -1,9 or better.

3: Upon reaching -5,0, I whine in corp chat and say I am so horrendously bored of ratting that I will never play Eve again, and I cancel my sub.

4: After 1 month without Eve, I resub and begin ratting again.

5: At the last kill I need to stop being an outlaw, I am promptly ganked in a bubble, and podded back to lowsec.

6: I swear in corp chat that I am never killing an npc again, and go on a pod-killing spree, reaching -9,9 again within 1-3 days.

7: Go back to part 1:

Leora Nomen
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.03 20:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Quaintaina
the life of Quaintaina in relation to sec status increase is to walk in circles:

1: CEO trying to convince me to go rat for sec status so I can join high sec wars. This takes approximately 1 week.

2: I begin the tedious process of going from -9,9 to -1,9 or better.

3: Upon reaching -5,0, I whine in corp chat and say I am so horrendously bored of ratting that I will never play Eve again, and I cancel my sub.

4: After 1 month without Eve, I resub and begin ratting again.

5: At the last kill I need to stop being an outlaw, I am promptly ganked in a bubble, and podded back to lowsec.

6: I swear in corp chat that I am never killing an npc again, and go on a pod-killing spree, reaching -9,9 again within 1-3 days.

7: Go back to part 1:

lol well at least you get richer while you rat ... this of the iskies :)
but i've known people who traded their character or bought a second one all because the char had negative status and couldn't do empire war decs and they just hated npcing

Wedge Capulet
Reaction Theory
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2007.11.03 21:06:00 - [19]
 

You can still get it up faster by ratting in more than one system. Each system has its own ten minute timer, so pop a rat in 3 systems and then go back to your first for faster sec hits. I know some people say this doesnt still work, but I'm pretty sure it does. This is a screenie from my character sheet. As you can see, two rats were killed before 10 minutes was up.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

This wasn't very long ago, so unless they've changed this in the last few weeks then this is the way to rat. 3 systems, pop one BS in each and move on.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.04 04:47:00 - [20]
 

That's good to know Wedge. I added a disclaimer at the top to read through the whole thread. Sorry to all for posting that inaccurate information to begin with. I'm working on seeing what (if anything) fast talk does. I'll add that onto to this when I find out.

IgnorantBliss
Gallente
Friendly Hostility
Posted - 2007.11.04 06:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
That's good to know Wedge. I added a disclaimer at the top to read through the whole thread. Sorry to all for posting that inaccurate information to begin with. I'm working on seeing what (if anything) fast talk does. I'll add that onto to this when I find out.


Though I've not done it personally, from talking to other people and reading other discussions Fast Talk seems pretty worthless. Because it's a percentage of the percent. So say your increase was 0.02 with it at level 4 or 5 it would end up being 0.028 or something to that effect. My figures may be horribly wrong, but the way everyone has explained it to me was if you don't go up and down in sec status a lot, it's not worth the training time to just get back from -10.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.04 07:01:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 04/01/2008 07:50:42
edit: changing table to show addition rather than multiply as that matches up better with my new data (ie fast talk 3 = 1.15 not 1.1576)

I completely rewrote the original article as a guide since you guys provided better information.

edit: ignore this paragraph
I trained up fast talk and it does ... nothing. Absolutely nothing. Both the security status increase and the actual security status I have after an increase indicate that it's broken. I'll be filling a bug report after this post and see if we can't get a developer looking at it.

edit: math in this paragraph isn't right b/c ft adds not multiplies
If it did work, I would say it would be a very valuable skill indeed. Yes it's a % of a % but the numbers are close together so that little bit really helps. Let's say level 4 would give 20% (I don't know if it's supposed to add (20%) or multiply (~21%). Then a 0.25% rat would be giving 0.3%. So if you're going from -10 to -2, that 34 hours (204.1 increases) becomes 28 hours (170.0 increases). If you don't have to recover your security status often, then yeah it's a pretty pointless skill as the whole point of the skill is to increase your security status faster.

I believe Fast Talk skill adds (ie fast talk 4 = 1.20 or 20% bonus):

Bounty FT0 FT1 FT2 FT3 FT4 FT5
500 0.16 0.168 0.176 0.184 0.192 0.200
650 0.17 0.179 0.187 0.196 0.204 0.213
800 0.18 0.189 0.198 0.207 0.216 0.225
950 0.19 0.200 0.209 0.219 0.228 0.238
1100 0.2 0.210 0.220 0.230 0.240 0.250
1250 0.21 0.221 0.231 0.242 0.252 0.263
1400 0.22 0.231 0.242 0.253 0.264 0.275
1550 0.23 0.242 0.253 0.265 0.276 0.288
1700 0.24 0.252 0.264 0.276 0.288 0.300
1850 0.25 0.263 0.275 0.288 0.300 0.313


Arekhon
Eternal Perseverance
B A N E
Posted - 2007.11.04 08:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Wedge Capulet
You can still get it up faster by ratting in more than one system. Each system has its own ten minute timer, so pop a rat in 3 systems and then go back to your first for faster sec hits. I know some people say this doesnt still work, but I'm pretty sure it does. This is a screenie from my character sheet. As you can see, two rats were killed before 10 minutes was up.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

This wasn't very long ago, so unless they've changed this in the last few weeks then this is the way to rat. 3 systems, pop one BS in each and move on.


no body reads obviously....I posted the same thing in post 8 but I did not have a screenie...ok whine over

but no really it does work that way.


Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2007.11.04 10:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
Fast Talk
This skill appears broken at the moment. I plan to file a bug report shortly and will update this post if I hear anything back from it.

They already know about the problem. I bug reported it in august, and I think a bunch of other ppl have bug reported it before that.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.11.04 17:41:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Scorpyn
Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch
Fast Talk
This skill appears broken at the moment. I plan to file a bug report shortly and will update this post if I hear anything back from it.

They already know about the problem. I bug reported it in august, and I think a bunch of other ppl have bug reported it before that.


Thanks for the heads up. I had already filed the report and got the same info from them--fixed on internal servers blah blah blah. I had filed it because at least one person had told me that CCP / a gm / a dev / someone had said it was working as intended.

Elliott Manchild
Animosity.
Posted - 2007.11.04 18:36:00 - [26]
 

Kil 1 rat per system still works, I was doing it earlier getin a sec increase every 2-5mins

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.11.04 23:55:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Elliott Manchild
Kil 1 rat per system still works, I was doing it earlier getin a sec increase every 2-5mins


the great Elliott is a npcer!!!!!!!

Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.05 03:59:00 - [28]
 

While you rat more for more security status, I suggest that you next work out solving galactic hunger.

After that, figure out how to make Goonswarm leave COAD alone.

Then I'll hire you for personal work. :)

Newbear
Posted - 2007.11.05 04:44:00 - [29]
 

I wana know how I can get past 6.5 sec ugh. A GM told me I can only get higher by killing commanders. Any ideas?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.11.05 04:50:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Newbear
I wana know how I can get past 6.5 sec ugh. A GM told me I can only get higher by killing commanders. Any ideas?


hax the sec status tables?

and curzon you are looking for god to do your personal work?


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