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Cybrex
Posted - 2007.11.02 12:33:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: Nian Banks
Edited by: Nian Banks on 01/11/2007 14:52:12
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 01/11/2007 14:38:21
what do you load them with. i can't find anything to put in it???



That would be because they have yet to seed the modules.

Ofcourse don't get excited. Basically CCP have halved both the bonuses in Sensor Boosters and have stated that the scripts you put into them will then double one effect and reduce to 0% the other effect. Effectively making Sensor Boosters give only Targeting Range or Scan Resolution at the original unnerfed % bonus.

Sensor Booster II
Current: +60% Targeting Range +60% Scan Resolution
New Nerfed, No Script: +30% Targeting Range +30% Scan Resolution
New Nerfed, with Targeting Range Script: +60% Targeting Range +0% Scan Resolution
New Nerfed, with Scan Resolution Script: +0% Targeting Range +60% Scan Resolution


Thats right, sensor boosters have been nerfed by 50% of original effectiveness.


The scripts are seeded at the moment. The changes made to the way sensor bosters work aren't bad. It looks as though they retain the percentage of target range and scan resolution they currently have with respective scripts in.

However, the nerf to Sensor damps was way over the top. A nerf of such magnitude to anything, is either proof that the developers screwed up previously, are about to screw up now, or both. Unskilled with scripts, the best named damps only reduce targeting range or scan res by 34%. With signal suppression level 4 and a damp rig (which has also been nerfed to 5% effectiveness), this can be increased to a pitiful -42.84% penalty.


So good bye arazu/lachesis =(

Kel Solaar
Einherjar Rising
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:30:00 - [32]
 

Dunno what CCP is doing with all those nerfs, but the sure thing is that they are killing a whole cruiser class... What the point of flying a lachesis or arazu after this? Even with scripts loaded on Phased Muon Dampeners with my skills and a Lachesis I get -25.5*100% + -25,5 = -51% Max Targeting Range Bonus... A Phased Muon is currently -48% without any skills... I can understand the need to balance the game, but first too much balancing kill the balancing. Why not creating counter weapons instead of nefing existing ones? Like the NOS for example, it would have been better to create an anti NOS module. Now whats the point of flying a Curse? I hope CCP will change back the level to be at least the same as before when you load scripts and not kill this ship class...

James Adams
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:45:00 - [33]
 

Just tried on the test server...

In my max-skilled lachesis with 4 RSD IIs I can bring a Dominix with no sensor booster down to 11km lock range. I mean WTF. I'm in a maxskilled dedicated EW ship and I can't take one bloody ship out of the fight?

I really can't see anything wrong with the old stats. I think it's great to split them up so you can't both increase lock time and reduce lock range at the same time, but why on earth did they feel the need to completely destroy the gallente recons. I can't even force a single battleship into web range anymore.

And it can't be used against snipers neither, as RSD IIs only have 90km optimal range with Long Distance Jamming 5.
Anything with a MWD will close way too fast, and you can't adapt to lock time scripts on the fly without them instantly getting within lock-range and targeting you before you can activate the new scripts on them.

I'll be training Caldari Cruiser 5 I think and get a Rook/Falcon. At least I can put some ships out of action once in a while then.

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:49:00 - [34]
 


Yeah this screw once agains screws amarr ships. I guess though i am glad ccp is spending time on these changes. i mean where else could they put their resouces? I mean they have fixed lagRolling Eyes

Martinez
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:53:00 - [35]
 

Yeah and gallente recons are screwed also. why can the ships that are meant for certain jobs be immune to the nerf bat. yes nosf needed a rework but to beat the crap of the amarr recons and make them useless was a bit much. seems ccp like ruining ship classes. caldari was the first nerfed, then amarr, next recon on the tee is gallente. if i was a minmatar recon pilot i would start training for another ship now because you are next.

Dingus Rx
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.02 15:39:00 - [36]
 

Gallente gets the nerf bat: Myrmi, EOS and now the Lachesis. The Lachesis was an effective EW support ship. Those days are gone.
Dingus Out

Kel Solaar
Einherjar Rising
Posted - 2007.11.02 17:31:00 - [37]
 

Save Celestis! A Whole Ship Class Is Gonna Disappeared!

FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
Posted - 2007.11.02 17:46:00 - [38]
 

Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.


Sonorra Baki
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.11.02 18:00:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: FOFOFOF
Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.




Thread over.

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2007.11.02 18:29:00 - [40]
 

Thing is, the Rook has been able to somewhat keep its strength. I've jammed out 3 commands and a HAC for the duration of a fight with my rook. What about the Arazu/Lachesis? I'm not sure that they're nerfing them into uselessness, but it will change your gameplay for sure. But Gallente pilots don't have too much to complain about, this is also a direct boost to blasterthrons :) I cannot wait, you have no idea how ****ed I am when my bthron is instant damp primary for most fights.

But we will all adapt. The one change that is definitely too much is reducing the damp rigs to 5% =/ It's simply unbalanced with the rest of the game.

Niskin
Minmatar
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Posted - 2007.11.02 18:34:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: FOFOFOF
Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.




Which is a great argument for lowering the stats on the modules a bit. However the current solution seems pretty lame. This whole script business is a joke. Just nerf dampener/booster strength across the board and call it a day...

Sara Finn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Posted - 2007.11.02 18:56:00 - [42]
 

Unless they also change the EWAR drones stats too, look on the bright side: these guys actually get a big of a boost and aren't as under-powered as they are now.

As for the Gallente recons, learn to adapt: put in 4 light damp drones, and learn to suck it up like the Curse/Pilgrim pilots have.

Natalie Jax
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.02 19:33:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Natalie Jax on 02/11/2007 19:34:12
When they nerfed ECM they also added boosting modules so you could still use ECM effectively if you wanted as long as you committed your ship to it.

At least you can use rigs to boost your RSD's ... oh wait they nerfed those down to 5% too.

Menellaix
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.02 19:42:00 - [44]
 

So maybe increase the optimal range of the RSD modules?

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:05:00 - [45]
 

This was a much needed *change*.

Range has for too long been too little of a factor in combat, this will fix that.

I see all the short range races whining, the truth is, ships like the Rokh, that rely on range as one of their combat strengths have been completely unable to make use of said strengths.

While this is hardly a complete fix, it does remove a significant hurdle to their effective use.

As for tracking computers, with the range script, it will be mre or less the same, you just won't be able to pick off fast moving frigates from 100km+....

this hurts the stupidly overpowered blaster boats but other than that I think that this is for the most part a positive change. As far as Amarr however, I'm curious as to whether this will be a good or a bad thing as there are pluses and minuses to be had out of this.

TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.11.02 20:54:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: FOFOFOF
Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.




ECM ships are getting boosted.

Storm Strike
Posted - 2007.11.02 21:17:00 - [47]
 

Based on the responses(bunch of whines about damps) I believe that ccp was right in nerfing them. However based on the responses regarding tds (very few) im thinking ccp is wrong, there seems to be no one using them to whine about it.

Kel Solaar
Einherjar Rising
Posted - 2007.11.02 21:39:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Kel Solaar on 02/11/2007 21:40:37
Quote:
Based on the responses(bunch of whines about damps) I believe that ccp was right in nerfing them


While I agree that dampeners should be nerfed, I think that it will be killing Celestis class ships: Celestis, Razu and Lacha are not ships that you tank, they are paper thin, and when pinned they are dead, while a Celestis fitted with T1 is around 8 million, a properly fitted Razu with rigs and TII gear is around 200 million and Lachesis around 150 million. Now whats happening : We jumped on Sisi with a mate, with my skills and 3 Phased Muons I dampened his abaddon to 18km (he was not using any sensor boosters). He just took 1 SB II and his range get to 37 km, with Level 4 recon you can warp disrupt up to 43 km so its only 6km more than his max targeting range with one SB II. If he had 2 SB II on, he would have toasted me in one or two volley... That is for a slow ship. There is the story of nano ships too, properly fitted lachesis had at least a chance to escape them. Now you are toasted :) And dont tell me fit to tank, whoever flyed a Celestis Class ship know it's useless even TII ones... What should do ccp? nerf abaddon dps? and nerf nano ships?

Vishous
Exsilium Militaris
Exiled Collective
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:54:00 - [49]
 

As an inspiring gallente recon pilot, this nerf to damps is disheartening. Even though I have to agree that the damps were quite high in the first place, the fact that you could reasonably hinder multiple targets (or lock down one target) was what it's intended purpose was. With this nerf, the damp ships will be forced to only focus on one target to messup, leaving it's paper thin hull vulnerable to all sorts of nasty primary rounds poping it within seconds. Just how many ew ships does CCP thing ppl bring along in gangs, with such low survivability. Of course, these damps, along with everything else atm, are subject to change. I pray CCP sees the light, and does not cripple damps.Sad

Ga, sorry, this sounds like a whine, but the only people who would say that damps are perfect after such a drastic nerf has been ****d many times by them. YARRRR!!

bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.11.02 23:21:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
I can see a good market for faction / invented / officer scripts with much better stats.


Too good a market, IMO. There is already too big a disparity between a standard T2 fitted ship and the ship you can fit if you have billions to spend (from whatever source). Leave it alone. The last thing we need is 3b isk Battleships that can shoot 250km and then the rest of eve that can only shoot 125.


Kel Solaar
Einherjar Rising
Posted - 2007.11.04 13:58:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: Sokratesz
I can see a good market for faction / invented / officer scripts with much better stats.


Too good a market, IMO. There is already too big a disparity between a standard T2 fitted ship and the ship you can fit if you have billions to spend (from whatever source). Leave it alone. The last thing we need is 3b isk Battleships that can shoot 250km and then the rest of eve that can only shoot 125.




Hehe yeah :) That kind of thing might happen the way they are designing the script thing.

welsh wizard
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.11.04 14:27:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Idaeus
I'm not terribly fond of it. Really reduces the effectiveness of the Gallente recons Sad


Might want to wait untill we see exactly how things are changed?

Only sad part about all of this is that the winner once again is.. caldari. I wonder what they'll find to whine about in it.


Are you a Gallente pilot? If you are have you been playing Eve for the last 2 years or something else?

Earth shattering hypocrisy.

FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
Posted - 2007.11.04 14:38:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: FOFOFOF
Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.




ECM ships are getting boosted.

Scenario before and after:
Rook: 20% / 20%
Falcon: 10% / 20%
BB: 10% / 15%
Scorpion: 20% / 20%
Griffin: 10% / 10%

any of them got more than 20%?

HostageTaker
Gallente
Band of Freelancers
Posted - 2007.11.04 15:09:00 - [54]
 

Celestis, Arazu and Lachesis need a % boost to RSD effectiveness per lvl tbh... From 5% to 7.5%

Idea




Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.11.04 15:33:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: NiGHTSintodreams
Originally by: Hozac
Originally by: Nian Banks
Hrm? The only people who will support this nerf are those who pilot Frigates T1&T2, Blaster/AC/Pulse pilots who like close combat and couriers who don't like camps.


And I love it.


me too. its quite clear that this nerf is designed to give the smaller ships in fleet pvp a better chance at doing something other than being popped.



Good point! This'll be interesting for sure. Like to see small cruiser gangs darting in and out of the large fleet blob. That'd be neta.

Sqalevon
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.04 15:35:00 - [56]
 

Did they also change remote tracking and sensor links ?
Else the tracking link bonus on the Scimitar / Oneiros is even more useless compared to the Guardian / Basilisk Cap reduction.

Phaedruss
Rat Katchers inc.
Posted - 2007.11.04 16:02:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: FOFOFOF
Do you ppl remember the ecm nerf?
At first it looked like it was overnefed, but, what it done in effect was countering every frakking ship using it at almost the same effect as the ships meant to do it.

Atm everyone carry it, as it shutdown targets better than ECM, you want to shutdown a target? bring ecm, damps are meant to break LONG range target or cripple lock time, its not meant to shutdown targets.




Yes, ECM was overnerfed. That's why they've decided to give it a boost, and its quite a significant boost for several ships.

The proposed changes also overnerf Sensor Damps. In short range engagements damps can be very limited, especially if the target is using a Sensor Booster. Given that Sensor Boosters are carried by every man and his dog these days, and not specifically to counter damps as some imply, but to give an overall advantage in targeting range and lock times, I believe Sensor Boosters themselves approach being over-powered for their dual application.

If it is the general belief that damps are over powered, fair enough, but please don't swing the bat around without thinking about it. Start with a sensible 5% reduction in effectiveness and then tweak it as necessary. Before anyone starts suggesting that 5% is peanuts, consider the weeks of training and hundreds of millions of isk players spend to get an extra 3-5% performance out of their ships and modules.

J Valkor
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.04 16:41:00 - [58]
 

Sweet jesus.

Bring Caldari and Gallente recons together. Have the Gallente recons concentrate on lowering lock times and the Caldari ships on trying to make as many ships as possible lose locks. Have an EOS support both with its bonuses (which I am sure none of you are factoring) in order to boost the effectiveness of both. CCP is trying to force the player base to mix and match ship types and mid slots for maximum effectiveness instead of spamming one module and most of you cannot do anything but cry about it.

Ra'ita
Posted - 2007.11.04 16:53:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: J Valkor
Sweet jesus.

Bring Caldari and Gallente recons together. Have the Gallente recons concentrate on lowering lock times and the Caldari ships on trying to make as many ships as possible lose locks. Have an EOS support both with its bonuses (which I am sure none of you are factoring) in order to boost the effectiveness of both. CCP is trying to force the player base to mix and match ship types and mid slots for maximum effectiveness instead of spamming one module and most of you cannot do anything but cry about it.


And even more so with a Keres/Kitsune group. The new EAS seem to match up with these changes quite well, especially with small gangs.

Recons do seem to need some balanacing in all of this, but I really don't think it's quite the hit that everyone seems to think it is. It's an interesting change, at least. And that's from someone who just managed to spec both Cal and Gal recons.

CaptainMiller
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.09 19:07:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: James Adams
Just tried on the test server...

In my max-skilled lachesis with 4 RSD IIs I can bring a Dominix with no sensor booster down to 11km lock range. I mean WTF. I'm in a maxskilled dedicated EW ship and I can't take one bloody ship out of the fight?

I really can't see anything wrong with the old stats. I think it's great to split them up so you can't both increase lock time and reduce lock range at the same time, but why on earth did they feel the need to completely destroy the gallente recons. I can't even force a single battleship into web range anymore.

And it can't be used against snipers neither, as RSD IIs only have 90km optimal range with Long Distance Jamming 5.
Anything with a MWD will close way too fast, and you can't adapt to lock time scripts on the fly without them instantly getting within lock-range and targeting you before you can activate the new scripts on them.

I'll be training Caldari Cruiser 5 I think and get a Rook/Falcon. At least I can put some ships out of action once in a while then.


Welcome to Amarr Recon pilot's world about a month ago. /emote cries himself to sleep


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