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blankseplocked Carrier Nerf quietly re-introduced
 
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SiJira
Posted - 2007.11.05 22:31:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: milinkoee
I like this change, as I don't feel carriers should be taking the place of haulers/freighters. I miss the days where bestowers might drop valuable cargo in low sec.

YAAARRRRR!!!!!! YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!
you need to come find me and ill show you YAAAARRR YARRRR!!YARRRR!!

Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.11.06 01:12:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Darius Fox
Originally by: Davlos
There was a game that was awesome at first, then it got stupidly f**ked sideways by the devs because they chose to listen to all the whiners who wanted their game to be more like Counter-Strike.

Then it died.

It was Star Wars Galaxies.



Wrong. SWG died because the Devs nerfed things for the fun of it, until the game became a huge nerf circle jerk (nerf BH then Jedi, rinse, repeat).
Finally the game became so screwed they nerfed everything with little notice or consultation with the playerbase. Everyone left.

Then the game died.

I left and came here because of the minimal ner***e by devs. However REV III is making me wonder whether CCP have morphed into SOE Sad


Darius got it right. How soon do people forget history? SWG did not die because the devs listened to the players, but rather the exact opposite. If they had listened to the players, they would have fixed the legions of bugs in the game instead of working on new content that no one wanted. SOE was the perfect example of how to ignore and tick off your customers.

Originally by: Karlemgne
I'd like to point out that SWG still has as many players as EVE Online does. I'd also like to point out that the changes to the game probably come from Lucas Arts, but hey.


Well, considering that EVE has nothing to go on but it's own quality as a game and very limited advertising, while SWG was based on one of the biggest movie franchises of all time with a massive fanbase even before it launched, then the fact that they have about the same number of players is really saying something about how badly SOE/LucasArts screwed up.

So far as the changes to carriers, I think it's a bad idea. I don't fly carriers, and I definetly don't think that they should be used as transport ships, but if the ship's role is to carry a fleet of smaller craft into battle, it's going to cause a lot of problems if that fleet can't have any ammo reserves! If they want to keep the carriers from being glorified haulers, that's great, but they need to find a way around this dilemma. Keep carriers from being abused by all means, but don't do it at the cost of crippling their intended role, that's just foolish. (edit: it sounds like this situation may have been resolved, if so, great! :) )

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.06 01:17:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Aurinkokuningas
Originally by: Nobler
4 accounts ending November 22nd...


Likely more than 4 other players not cancelling because they can enter low sec without having to deal ****ers with solowtfpwnmachines. Rolling Eyes


People who think that Carriers are "solowtfpwnmachines" in lowsec would probably get ganked by 3 noobships.

Not even CCP came up with such poor reasoning, they admitted that they need to nerf the Carriers because people simply use them too much.


Devious Syn
Celestial Mayhem
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.11.06 01:21:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Fswd
Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:08:10
Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:07:56
Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:07:23
There are freighters for hauling stuff. The function of carriers is to carry fighters, not stuff. In some way, this can even be regarded as an exploit, like how miners use jet-cans.


oh gawd plz stfu

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2007.11.06 02:22:00 - [125]
 

Another pointless carrier nerf. Ships should be allowed to store anything they want in their cargo bays when they are in the carriers ships maintenance bay.

Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.06 03:22:00 - [126]
 

The carrier has a cargo hold, a corporate hanger, and a mainentance bay to put **** in and you ******s are crying because you have factor in an extra what 5km3 of space in your collective 2555000 of space! ROFLMAO on the titanic stealth nerf there!LaughingLaughingLaughing




Garborg
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.06 03:27:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Garborg on 06/11/2007 03:27:24
Edited by: Garborg on 06/11/2007 03:26:56
Originally by: Fswd
Edited by: Fswd on 27/10/2007 12:08:10
In some way, this can even be regarded as an exploit, like how miners use jet-cans.


AhCrap why didn't someone tell me I have been exploiting using a jetcan for mining!

Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2007.11.06 03:52:00 - [128]
 

Yay. Another nerf in a valiant attempt to make this game NOT FUN..

Quit changing game mechanics that have existed and worked for YEARS. I swear I will start calling you SOE instead of CCP; you're starting to make this game suck ass logistically.


Minsc
Gallente
Alpha Empire
Posted - 2007.11.06 03:55:00 - [129]
 

Have carriers even been out for years?

Merrin Farthing
KDM Corp
Posted - 2007.11.06 03:56:00 - [130]
 

do we reaqlly need to make POS logistics even less fun than they are now?


Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.06 04:33:00 - [131]
 

I did 3 pos refuels in my hoarder. 22 round trip it takes about all fing day!!!Laughing


Ja'kar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.11.06 09:25:00 - [132]
 

Quit changing game mechanics that have existed and worked for YEARS. I swear I will start calling you SOE instead of CCP; you're starting to make this game suck ass logistically.

*cough Cought WT0 Cough -

Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.06 10:51:00 - [133]
 

Well, after reading the post, it seems they just prevented people from putting transports in carrier cargo bays to carry more stuff, and nothing else. "Legitimate" use of carriers (transporting chips with ammo and stuff) still works.

You can still jump with a carrier and a cargo full of fuel, and you can also (in due time) use the jump freighter do to so.

So what I'd like is for the change to take place after they let people train for T2 freighters, but jump freighters need a price change (they are too expensive) and better jump capability.

Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:15:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Sharupak
The carrier has a cargo hold, a corporate hanger, and a mainentance bay to put **** in and you ******s are crying because you have factor in an extra what 5km3 of space in your collective 2555000 of space! ROFLMAO on the titanic stealth nerf there!LaughingLaughingLaughing



If you think that maintenance bay and cargo hold are equivalent in their usage and can just be lumped together, then I'm afraid we'll have to apply a 0.0 weighting factor to your considered opinions on this matter.

Meanwhile I'll heartily second those saying that alternative logistic techniques need to be ingame, debugged, denerfed and pilots and industry up to speed before any changes are made to carrier logistic capabilities.

Hikaru Kai
Caldari
Secretariate
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:26:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Sharupak
I did 3 pos refuels in my hoarder. 22 round trip it takes about all fing day!!!Laughing




Maybe use a better ship?

Saint Luka
Altruism.
Darkness Rising Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:30:00 - [136]
 

So, CCP identified a potential problem and is trying to avoid Capitals-Online, fact.

Giving "noobs" a fighting chance in the game, fact.

Nerfing a ship roles too oblivion in which many of your old (loyal) playerbase (not the new players who leave in 7 months) which most of have several accounts is destructive.

Remember what happened too the ever popular SWG, they had the ****y outlook that whatever they changed/did would still "keep increasing the playerbase" but it effectively killed the game.

Think twice about what your doing

Kayna Eelai
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:34:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 06/11/2007 11:33:54
Originally by: Rawthorm
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
this is one nerf that dont bother me much since we are getting new freighters as well.

taking away a few roles from the carriers to make them better in other areas doesnt sound to bad imo


Until a dreadnought force of yours needs ammo and stront taken with it on an offensive and you have to manualy pilot a dozen haulers down to the war zone :p


and your point is?

i'd just suggest one change: the NAME. don't call em CARRIERS as ppl. thinks it means they can CARRY whatever they want.


you know what kind of transports bring supplies to the warzone IRL? trucks. defensless lame huge cargobay trucks... wiuth an escort. and imo: that's how it should be in EVE. and it would open a door to loads of new strategies too.

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:34:00 - [138]
 

The 'carebears' who can fly Rorquals and Jumpfreighters for their logistical needs lol at you :P

137k on the Rorqual after Trinity is pretty decent. Keep crying about your poor, poor carriers but make room for the trucks.

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:35:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Sharupak
The carrier has a cargo hold, a corporate hanger, and a mainentance bay to put **** in and you ******s are crying because you have factor in an extra what 5km3 of space in your collective 2555000 of space! ROFLMAO on the titanic stealth nerf there!LaughingLaughingLaughing



Some of you guys are really totally clueless, but we're having a lot of fun watching you making yourselves look stupid.

Carriers can (now on TQ) carry 10.000m in the corporate hangars, around 3500m in the cargo bay (mostly used for fuel - it's needed there for jumping) and more than 50.000m in the cargo hold of industrial ships inside the ship maintenance array. Taking the latter away means that around 80% of the hauling capacity of Carriers is gone.


Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:36:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Minsc
Have carriers even been out for years?



Yes. Unlike the whining noobs.


Rainbow Bear
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:38:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: MEEATYOU


Carebears belong in empire. Warriors belong in low sec and 0.0




Leave me and my corp out of this! Laughing

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:40:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Saint Luka
So, CCP identified a potential problem and is trying to avoid Capitals-Online, fact.

Giving "noobs" a fighting chance in the game, fact.




They could have done this in early 2006 or so, when Goonswarm was boldly throwing T1 frigs at Carriers and Dreads. Instead, they buffed Capital ships.

Now that Goonswarm and other alliances have plenty of Capital ships too, they are nerfing them. Hmm...

In the end, this looks like the exact opposite of "giving noobs a fighting chance". It's more like "keeping the good stuff for a small elite" (with the good stuff being titans and the new T2 ships soon, few will have skills and ISK for them).


Vardemis
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:43:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Davlos
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away.... there was a game.

There was a game that was awesome at first, then it got stupidly f**ked sideways by the devs because they chose to listen to all the whiners who wanted their game to be more like Counter-Strike.

Then it died.

It was Star Wars Galaxies.

'Users of carriers' who post here, aka whiners ought to be slapped with the Order of Stalin's Silence for their own good.


Well said, cannot really add more.

Thicky McThick
Posted - 2007.11.06 11:58:00 - [144]
 


Since when would a carrier be designed to fight on the front line.
It would make more sense for it to live up to it's name and be a carrier, bringing in supplies and ships, together with a behind the lines full support setup for launching and repairs.
Being able to allocate fighters is exactly what it should be doing. rather than using them itself, as an up front fighting machine.

Make it the support vessel again.
If that leaves a need for another ship , then create some more offensive caps, and stop messing with the poor old carrier , trying to make it something it is not meant to be.

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.06 12:04:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Thicky McThick

Since when would a carrier be designed to fight on the front line.



Since CCP buffed its HP for this reason.

Quote:

It would make more sense for it to live up to it's name and be a carrier, bringing in supplies and ships, together with a behind the lines full support setup for launching and repairs.



So that's why CCP is nerfing the hauling capacity of Carriers too.

Quote:

Being able to allocate fighters is exactly what it should be doing. rather than using them itself, as an up front fighting machine.

Make it the support vessel again.
If that leaves a need for another ship , then create some more offensive caps, and stop messing with the poor old carrier , trying to make it something it is not meant to be.


They already did ... Too late.

Osiris Occido
The Nightshift
Posted - 2007.11.06 15:25:00 - [146]
 

Isn't the ship called a "carrier" ugh

Carrier: #static# Pilot cleared for take-off from Hanger XY-43 with replacement ship, over
Pilot: #static# Copy that, over
Carrier: #static# Fly safe, don't forget you have nothing to reload and I hope you don't need cap boosters. Your exotic dancer has to stay here too. I'd hold your ammo and charges but then I'd have no room for my fuel, over *static*
...
...
Pilot: #static# !@#$%^

Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.11.06 15:38:00 - [147]
 

And here was me thinking they'd based the name and what they wanted it's role to be on the modern day warship of the same name.

transport monkey
Posted - 2007.11.06 16:47:00 - [148]
 

nice so we getting jump freighters and carriers are getting nerfed. Ok they don't want to see us using them as haulers.

but in my case I just finished all the required skills to jump into a carrier strictly for hauling because till now I had no choice. If I had known this a half year earlier I would have trained Freighter 5 instead of BS5+DI5 and it would have been fine.

But I honestly think if they provide a ship like the carrier they should thought first about how people use it and than seeing that they are the only way to survive (logistic wise) in deep 0.0, so like 60 jumps from empire.

So if you nerf the carrier, provide at least a way to get out to deep 0.0 easier. like more access points. It would make it more fun out there because you don't spend all your playtime with logistics.

The second thing is a carrier is affordable for small corps a sa hauler, now the alternative of:

a) a dreadnought
b) a rorqual
c) a jump freighter

are a little bit more expensive. I rather do the task with a 1 Billion ship than using a 2 - 3 Billion ship.

So please put a new logistic mod on the carrier:

mod a) fighter control - can control fighters but limited maintenance bay

mod b) logistic control - provides boost to tanking and logistics but no fighters control

mod c) transport control - provides a significant boost of stuff what can carried, but can't use fighters or logistic modules when equipped with this module

a module can be only installed one and can be only fitted to it in station.

would make us all happy and should requires racial carrier skill level 1 so we don't have to waste more training time for this ship.

Osiris Occido
The Nightshift
Posted - 2007.11.06 18:11:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Osiris Occido
Isn't the ship called a "carrier" ugh

Carrier: #static# Pilot cleared for take-off from Hanger XY-43 with replacement ship, over
Pilot: #static# Copy that, over
Carrier: #static# Fly safe, don't forget you have nothing to reload and I hope you don't need cap boosters. Your exotic dancer has to stay here too. I'd hold your ammo and charges but then I'd have no room for my fuel, over *static*
...
...
Pilot: #static# !@#$%^


I take this back, I logged on the test server and saw that my combat ships can still have ammo and charges in my carrier. This is good that isn't changing and it can carry combat ships. I was preparing for a jump freighter anyway, so this change isn't as bad as I thought. This actually opens up more dangerous transport jumps because most carriers can defend themselves and their cyno jumping thru non-blue space, but in a defenseless jump freighter, this is much, much more dangerous if you get a bad bounce, for instance.

oh, also loving the new 1,000,000m ship bay ugh

Remember When
Posted - 2007.11.06 18:23:00 - [150]
 

I wish they would listen to the player base for once on this matter.


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