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Jonas Vinthyn
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.03.14 14:49:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: W3370Pi4
if they find time to devellop a small rorqual why not some sort of small Freighter to fill the gap between Transport ship and Freigters :S


Tier 2 industrials.....long overdue. Nothing too fancy, couple less highs and mids, couple more lows. A Woodchuck Mark II (see what I did there? :) ) with 6 lows, 2 mids, and 1 high would add capacity to the badger but still not "nerf" transports since its still a t1 with little resists but it would fill the in between role nicely.

-Jonas

Zanpt
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.14 21:20:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Hilly22222
and...a casino!


And an S&M room where CCP devs can be bound and beaten.

quickshot89
Caldari
89th Logistics
Posted - 2008.03.14 21:42:00 - [243]
 

i cant wait for more info for this, my corp has already said we are getting once if we can afford / have the skills by the time its out Very Happy

shady trader
Posted - 2008.03.14 23:23:00 - [244]
 

That I would think Eve needs is as a ship that is part industrial, part command ship and part mini carrier.

1) It has the command bonus to mining and scanners.

2) It either has a massive ore specific cargo hold and a reasonable main hold (say 4,000m3 for loot, ammo fuel and spare crystals etc) or ore compression. as well as tractor beam bonuses.

3) The abbility to carry a number of ships, with significant bonuses to industrials and barges assuming this is total cargo hold size. This way corp member can be sent out in frigites to scout belts and then switch to mining or indy ships without having to leave the system. Say room for 3/4 barges and a hauler. One way to do this is have a very small ship bay but have massive bonus to specific classes similar to strip miners fitting on a barge.

To balance it make it have less production lines then it's big brother + possibly a shorter range scan and tractor beam. Also make in slow at non warp speeds (partly to stop it being a perfect looting machine) and so it cannot just zip onto a belt grab the cans and then go back to its safe spot, if its slow then it will have to sit in the belt.

As a person who does small mining ops I realy want a large hauler that gives mining bonus. The ability to be able to load my whole mining op onto 1 ship and move it another system without sending hours hauling supplies and rigged ships would be very useful. Especially then looking at mining missions as you often have to do them in another system. You first need to use a combat ship to clear the area, then bring in barges, finally you need several haulers (or several trips) to haul the ore back to your agent.

FullBoat
Chateau D'If Exiles
Posted - 2008.03.16 01:52:00 - [245]
 

I would think something like this would be good:

1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all
2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams
3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods
4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper.
5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel
6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed.

It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec.
It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt.
As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :)

Skills:
- Mining Barge 5
- Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5
- Mining 5
- Astrogeology 5

I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked.

KAELA MENSHA
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:29:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: FullBoat
I would think something like this would be good:

1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all
2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams
3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods
4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper.
5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel
6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed.

It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec.
It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt.
As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :)

Skills:
- Mining Barge 5
- Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5
- Mining 5
- Astrogeology 5

I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked.


---------------------------------------------------------

In that form. About as much use as a chocolate pokerSad

Or is that the idea ?

Kamikazi ONE
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:15:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: FullBoat
I would think something like this would be good:

1) 1 lane for compression - This is high-sec after all
2) Be able to use capitol tractor beams
3) Get a nice mining bonus, and be able to use 2 gang mods
4) Nice sized drone bay. Say 250m3, and be able to put out 5 heavy/sentry's. Just for help with rats, and the crazy can flipper.
5) 4,000 m3 cargo hold, for the ore/fuel
6) 1,000 m3 Corp Hanger. For the crystals, and maybe to switch out mods if needed.

It shouldn't be able to carry any ships. You don't really need it for high-sec.
It should be about as fast as molasseses in December. Say 50m/s? It's not like it's going to go anywhere once it's in a belt.
As for the Cap/CPU. Enough to fit a XL-SB and maybe a couple of active shield hardeners. But, nothing crazy. Most likely the lows are going to be cargo expanders anyway. :)

Skills:
- Mining Barge 5
- Advanced Spaceship Command 4.. maybe 5
- Mining 5
- Astrogeology 5

I'm sure I'm missing some on the skills, but to me that seams like a nice rounded ship. It's not a total killer, but a lot better then what's out there. As for cost. I'm thinking it should take about 1bil to make. The "Big Brother" is going for about 2bil last I looked.


A couple of comments ...
The command mods should be the same as the Fleet Command ships = 3 gang mods.
A 4k m3 cargohold is pointless, 400k+ would be more like it (even if only useable whilst in its industrial mode).

I would still like this thing to be able to transfer ore directly to a freighter to move back to a station.

Emporer Norton
Posted - 2008.03.27 06:27:00 - [248]
 

How about a 40-50km3 cargo but ore and ice take 1/10 normal space so it will hold a full belt worth of ore but is only for ore anything else is more then industrial but less then freighter

KAELA MENSHA
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:51:00 - [249]
 

must have ability to carry rigged ships I.E hulks etc
decent cargo capacity.
and mining bonus, please can we have scan probe bonus aswell.
if mining is moving toward exploration based mining.

loki gallach
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:19:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: shady trader
That I would think Eve needs is as a ship that is part industrial, part command ship and part mini carrier.

1) It has the command bonus to mining and scanners.

2) It either has a massive ore specific cargo hold and a reasonable main hold (say 4,000m3 for loot, ammo fuel and spare crystals etc) or ore compression. as well as tractor beam bonuses.

3) The abbility to carry a number of ships, with significant bonuses to industrials and barges assuming this is total cargo hold size. This way corp member can be sent out in frigites to scout belts and then switch to mining or indy ships without having to leave the system. Say room for 3/4 barges and a hauler. One way to do this is have a very small ship bay but have massive bonus to specific classes similar to strip miners fitting on a barge.

To balance it make it have less production lines then it's big brother + possibly a shorter range scan and tractor beam. Also make in slow at non warp speeds (partly to stop it being a perfect looting machine) and so it cannot just zip onto a belt grab the cans and then go back to its safe spot, if its slow then it will have to sit in the belt.

As a person who does small mining ops I realy want a large hauler that gives mining bonus. The ability to be able to load my whole mining op onto 1 ship and move it another system without sending hours hauling supplies and rigged ships would be very useful. Especially then looking at mining missions as you often have to do them in another system. You first need to use a combat ship to clear the area, then bring in barges, finally you need several haulers (or several trips) to haul the ore back to your agent.


thats about right. Very Happy
scan the site, clear it. and team mates bring in the mining equipment

Mehg
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:20:00 - [251]
 

I'm a small scale high-sec miner. I don't have the resources to move into low sec, let alone 0.0.

In small gangs (<5 people), T1 industrials work fine, and like has been said - there are almost always refineries within 1-2 jumps.

The biggest problems with carebear mining that I've seen are:

Jetcan mining - most semipro highsec miners have hauler bots, or friends that love doing nothing than going from Point A to Point B ad naeusum. Giving said bored person something more to do would be great to make it less boring, or give us something big enough to haul so said person can actually do some mining inbetween trips (make the Orca deploy to a giant can to mine to, ship is immobile but can use stripminers/drones, and nearby miners can deposit directly into cargo hold - I dunno, just thinking out loud here)

Virtually no Low-Sec mining - it's just not profitable to mine in small gangs in 0.4-0.1 space. There are thousands of tasty belts, but so many "pirate gangs" decide that since it's low sec they can claim it as "turf" with impunity, or even worse, just decide to pop barges because they are sitting ducks - all it takes is a frig warping in close with a scrammer and wait for his buddies in "any ship with weapons" and it makes the risk much too high for something you can get in high sec anyway. Sure - if you get together a sizable crew you can scare them off, or maybe cut a deal with whatever pvp corp is in the area, but those aren't really options for small-scale corps. I don't think the Orca is a solution to this unless it took a drastic military turn - more like a POS you could anchor in a belt, online defenses (maybe existing POS defenses), store ore in while it's anchored, and could back something big enough to haul a belts' worth of ore at a time.

Lots of people love to say "Move to 0.0", but it isn't practical unless your with a decently crewed alliance - there is no incentive for small corps. What really needs to be done is do something to make low-sec more attractive for people who are ready to move out of high sec, but don't have the political backing to move to 0.0. Right now, unless I get a corp that has established safe belts in 0.0, there's no reason to leave high-sec mining, especially with the way Trit prices have been climbing. I don't really see the need for another high-sec mining support ship - I'd love to see a tool that enables us to move into low-sec without needing a gang of armed guards nearby.

Make the risks in low sec more manageable, and balance out the Risk vs Reward in mining in other-than-highsec areas - that's what really is broke with mining today.

loki gallach
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:57:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: quickshot89
i cant wait for more info for this, my corp has already said we are getting once if we can afford / have the skills by the time its out Very Happy


Same here if they get the specs right.
Rorqual was a white elephant. (No use what so ever)Sad

Esab
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.27 23:25:00 - [253]
 


Same here if they get the specs right.
Rorqual was a white elephant. (No use what so ever)Sad


Are you serious? You must be doing something wrong mate.


CliveMerric
Posted - 2008.03.27 23:34:00 - [254]
 

wow this thread is still going strong :)

hurry up CCP

/me shakes fist

shady trader
Posted - 2008.03.28 11:41:00 - [255]
 

Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space.

The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining.

Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed.

As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! Smile so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull.

loki gallach
Posted - 2008.03.28 17:17:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: shady trader
Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space.

The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining.

Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed.

As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! Smile so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull.

------------------------------------------------------
At last the voice of reasonVery Happy. design a ship for the future, not to make it fit in with what we've always done.Shocked The ability to evolve or adapt keeps the game fresh. Doing things the old way leads to stagnation

Mandriard
Posted - 2008.04.13 11:18:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it in this thread or not, but a ship maintenence bay would be great for hauling rigged ships in empire. As it stands now, moving rigged ships around is a pain since you have to actually fly them individually to their destination. I would love to be able to load up a couple of hulks and a hauler and move them all at once to a system to do a mining op.


I totally concur, In my opinion miners are in essence a nomade type of breed, moving from system to system - at present unfortunately logged down by the massive logistical challenge of moving equipment - in RL this would certainly be resolved by deploying a vessel that would allow you to move continously.

The Orca should certainly allow for Rigged ships to be carried in x numbers. I also do believe that the ship should only be obtainable/useable if the Player is in a player corp. Even if the corp only holds 1 person in that corp.. It at least allows for dealing with Macro miners ...

Blackbolt
Posted - 2008.04.13 16:51:00 - [258]
 

Agreed. Not a good idea. The market for empire-based minerals is viable as-is.

What would be a good idea, though is a mini-freighter (or maxi hauler) with 100k m3 cargo capacity. Been looking for that for years - just ask any POS specialist how badly they need it.


Originally by: mamba mo
THIS IDEA SHOULD BE SC****D!!!!
with the rorqual, 0.0 mining is better and its worth mining low end ores such as veldspar and scordite however if this hi-sec verison is introduced then it will be just the same as before and people will go back to briging minrals into 0.0 by module compresion like the pasive targerter ect.

Blackbolt
Posted - 2008.04.13 16:59:00 - [259]
 

Discoverbale belt has absolutely no change, m8. Not sure why CCP thinks this is needed.
Scan probers will get you zeroed in less than :60s. Combat or mining begins.
There's absolutely nothing that you can do in .01-.04 to stop a PvP gang from torching your billion isk investment in a matter of 1-2 minutes - unless you load up full of chappies and have them stand guard. But if you're going to do that, might as well mine crok or ark.

In high-sec, there's nothing that you can do to prevent the same scenario except the offending party just zeroes in on you to squat/piggyback/claim jump your belt with their ships and strip, strip, strip away - while you shake your fist complaining that you did all the hard work to find it.....

[email protected] - another *not so great* feature change.

Originally by: shady trader
Given that we are going to be moving from fixed belts (dev blogs and drawing board) to discoverable ones (using scanners) and the exploration belts that can be found now. I do think we need to have a cap ship that can carry a few mining related ships and can allow players to switch from frigites in space.

The reason for this is simple, you use the frigites to scout the planets (to scan from) in a system or more to find the based belt(s), call for the Orca (I assume its a slow ship) the other scouts can then head to the same system and belt, meet up with the Orca/clear the belt of rats. Then take there hulks and indy's out of the ship hold and start mining.

Given that the majority of ships used in a mining op in high sec are rigged to some extent, moving them to a statation in a system is a real pain especially given their low base speed.

As CCP move more to non fixed roid locations and the high sec population grows its going to become more complicated to find roids with decent amounts of ore that is not being mined. If you go off the beaten track you have more chance to find untouched ore but you may also run into other groups doing the same. As a result scouting systems will become more important. Having the Orca be able to support this way of mining would be very usefull and make it in greate demand. Also thair are a number of high sec systems were their is no station, while there is one in a next door system it still increases the time and complexity of the mining op, and one thing all miners know time=isk! Smile so being able to have the op be self sufficent would be very helpfull.

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.04.15 23:55:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Mika Meroko on 15/04/2008 23:57:16
I want my transforming ship!!!!


but seriously, just need compression, a massive hold, (400k) and maybe command modules...


as long as it is not a T2 verison of the Roq... I am fine with it....(yeah, if its T2... yeah, it will be pretty useless due to it costs..*come on, is designed for highsec!!!!*... earning 12 billion for a highsec Roq...yeah....... atleast the jump freighter is useful...)

Gilgamoth
Minmatar
Eldritch Storm
Posted - 2008.04.16 11:39:00 - [261]
 

I'm just gonna drop in my 0.02 ISK here. Personally, I see the Orca as a cross between a Command Ship and a mini-carrier.

Yes Please
1) It does need 3 gang mods and bonuses to said mods.

2) It should have bonus to tractor beam range and/or be able to use Cap Tractor Beams (or medium/large tractor beams). This is to bring the jet cans dropped by the barges to itself so that the hauler has one pick-up point.

3) It should be able to defend itself either through drones, sentries or fighters (or resists).

No Thanks
1) The Orca doesn't need compression. You're never more than a couple of jumps from a station in empire (high and low sec). Also compression = "siege mode" = ganked in low sec, it should be mobile enough to get out or be able to defend itself.

2) It doesn't need to be a massive hauler. Every time you dock or leave system your gang will loose it's gang boost. Max expanded T1 haulers (+38k m3 itty 5) can easily manage in high sec. 45k m3 is enough to be able to hold two full jetcans.

Nice To Haves
1) It would be nice to have a ship maintenance bay. Not necessarily limited to barges & industrials as you'd want to store frigates/shuttles in it whilst the barges are in use (if running ops in low sec)

2) Jump capabilities would be nice. However, as this is primarily an empire ship and you can't light a cyno above 0.4, this might be a waste. ALso, do you really want to light up a beacon that says "here I am" to every pirate that's watching the map?

As I said, just my 0.02 ISK.

Regards,

Gil

Alex Redwidth
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.04.16 18:18:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Alex Redwidth on 16/04/2008 18:18:55
My own thoughts are a little different, as rather than simply a 'mining m3 booster', I think the Orca could have more influence on encouraging co-operative mining ops with larger fleets.

1, possibly 2 Gang module(s).

Skill bonus to tractor range (x2?).

4-5 High slots (tractors).

Cargo hold of 'bugger all'.

No drones.

Now for the reasoning:

Put 3 gang modules on this and give it defensive capabilities as people are suggesting and it is a valuable command ship. Put a huge hold in it and end up being used as a better industrial before the path to freighter. Pilots of the orca wouldn't have any need to fly their industrials any more.

Give it the above and you make it useful in mining ops, providing a single 'destination' for your haulers (tractoring the cans) and will encourage larger mining ops. Rather than removing traditional roles within a mining op, you'd be expanding them and encouraging more pilots to join in.

It also is less useful to dual account/2-3 account mining ops[1] and shouldn't affect current skill paths to freight/command ship.

The Orca would have a clearly defined role and be little more than a tractor platform with a fleet mining bonus, maybe destroyer sized as it'd rely on rabbiting at the sign of trouble.

It might even make mining ops more of a target and encourage mining ops to include combat patrols.



[1] I say this as a dual account miner, we make boats loads of ISK in high sec as it is and I'd rather see something to encourage 'team play' than simply make us more profitable.

Vlad Dakovnovich
Posted - 2008.04.18 12:05:00 - [263]
 

it would be nice to get an expected release date and a few details so that we can start training for it. We have been waiting a long time since it was first mentioned.

Also if it is a high sec ship are the BPO's going to be seeded in high sec or just in ore space like all the other ore ships. Seems a bit backwards to me.

Kev Hunter
Posted - 2008.04.20 06:09:00 - [264]
 

Ahh yes, the Orca.

I'd like to see it hold 100k m3. I could care less if it compresses ore or not.

Obviously something of this nature is going to move slow in space.. so I'm not going to make an unreasonable demand that it move as fast as a frigate.

Capital tractor beams, very nice. Also allow it to use non-capitals as well?

A drone bay would be nice. At least 50 m3.

If it were to have the same mining foreman/mining director bonuses as the Rorqual I'd be happy with that.

Well, those are my reasonable requests... Here are my trolling unreasonable demands:

1) Infinite Hull, Armor, and Shield.
2) It must have a top speed of 1,000,000 m/s
3) A cargohold of infinite m3.
4) Unlimited range on all tractor beam types
5) Drone bay of infinite m3 with infinite drone bandwidth.
6) 65,535 High, Medium, and Low slots
7) So many mining bonuses that all miners can use a Miner 1, fire a 1 second mining cycle on ANY asteroid and it be depleted and automatically jetcanned.
8) BPO = 1 ISK
9) Build time = 1 second
10) Requirements to build it: 1 tritanium

Okay, I got the trolling out of the way. I now bring you back to your regularly scheduled forum topic.. already in progress.


Ortos
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.04.21 00:18:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
You all realize that this ship is secretly beingintroduced to stop all the "Give Chribba A Highsec Rorqual" petition threads popping up every so often? Very HappyLaughing


Someone needs to gank the veldnaught, maybe a frig op with a couple of thousand frigs or something.. =P

Nick Bison
Gallente
Bison Industrial Inc
Posted - 2008.04.21 20:29:00 - [266]
 

I read quite some time ago that CCP had some basic design ideas about the Orca. i also asked back then to let us know the outline of their ideas so we could make our discussion more productive instead of a big wishlist.

If I missed CCP's post on their outline, please point me toward it. If it has not been posted yet ... come on guys, throw me a bone here! Very Happy

agrajag119
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.04.21 21:17:00 - [267]
 

My .02 isk on the Orca.

Design it for in-belt work. Give it a bonus to shield transfer array distance, but not to *capital* shield xfer. Give it the cargo to handle about 3-cans worth of ore, and able to fit capital tractors.

So it would be used as a consolidation point of an op, it pulls all the cans in and holds them internally until a hauler is nearby. This keeps the jetcans out of the belt, thus minimizing the threat of flippers as well as providing a buffer to make ops in systems w/o stations more feasible.

Should cost roughly a billion, mainly to make it an achievable goal for corps.

Relevohs
Posted - 2008.04.27 11:41:00 - [268]
 

...or - just let me move the Rorqual to High sec :) (age old grumble)
/rant off

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.04.27 17:38:00 - [269]
 

Right now Orca vs Rorqual in the DB is:
100K PG vs 320K PG
20K vs 40K Cargo
4/4/2 vs 6/7/3 Slots
12K vs 30K Armour

I worry about the cargo bay due to compression.

quickshot89
Caldari
89th Logistics
Posted - 2008.04.27 22:33:00 - [270]
 

how did you find that out?


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