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Judas Jones
Amarr
UK Freedom Fighters
Focused Intentions
Posted - 2007.10.25 11:52:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Titus Lewis
Amarr are weaker than other races by design.

You fail. Gankageddon. 'nuff said.
It's not by design, it's by evolution.


Ohh gowd you talk so much crap on the forums it makes the baby in Verone's Sig cry harder! YARRRR!!

ArrowGankgeddon has not existed in-game since stack penalty was brought in coupled with Thermal nerf on amarr Crystals. These, coupled with the lack of damage bonuses on 95% of Amarr ships and the harsh cap penalties result in gimp set-up's which lack ommmphhh.

ArrowEvolution implies progress,as in moving forward, as in getting 'better', I don't think the Amarr race would consider its natural evolution to include reducing its damage capabilities and offensive ommppph in exchange for cap relays and Cap sucking Tachs you cant even fit on a ship.

Can't be assed to go into great detail of a pre-existing problem with Amarr ships/lasers that has existed for years. Suffice to say, for Amarr pilots, train elsewhere, you wont regret it!

Quote:
You fail....'nuff said....


Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:08:00 - [32]
 

actually i'm training amarr cruisers 'cause the Guardian is the best support ship ever for fleet pvp (apart from carriers), same goes for the Damnation... :)

amarr is not that bad actually :)

NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:17:00 - [33]
 

to the OP;

Grid armor. Fixers could be uber ;)

/Theo

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:20:00 - [34]
 

Its bad game design to intentionally leave a class/race/etc pre-nerfed from the onset of the game and all throughout it's lifetime. Its like saying "we dont like this, so we nerfed it, and we didnt tell you".

What, you want Amarr fliers to take another slap to the face?

Dillius Archania
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:24:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden
actually i'm training amarr cruisers 'cause the Guardian is the best support ship ever for fleet pvp (apart from carriers), same goes for the Damnation... :)

amarr is not that bad actually :)


The Guardian and Damnation aren't that bad. Notice how neither is a laser boat.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:29:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Judas Jones
Suffice to say, for Amarr pilots, train elsewhere, you wont regret it!


This is exactly why we other Jones call you Judas, you...you...Judas! Sad

Sartaron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:42:00 - [37]
 

We are the most advanced civilisation, since we have to learn the technology of our enemies. Shocked

Malashek Vatrii
Universal Apathy and Boredom
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:51:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Judas Jones
Suffice to say, for Amarr pilots, train elsewhere, you wont regret it!


This is exactly why we other Jones call you Judas, you...you...Judas! Sad


I guess that counts me out. I started Caldari, and then switched to Amarr... now I'm switching to Gallente or Mini.

Wew go indecision!

(Mind you I *can* fly every Amarr sub-capital ship)

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:59:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 25/10/2007 13:06:22

Originally by: Judas Jones
Gankgeddon has not existed in-game since stack penalty was brought in coupled with Thermal nerf on amarr Crystals. [...] Evolution implies progress,as in moving forward, as in getting 'better', I don't think the Amarr race would consider its natural evolution to include reducing its damage capabilities and offensive ommppph in exchange for cap relays and Cap sucking Tachs you cant even fit on a ship.


ONE meaning of the world "evolution" is progress/betterment.
It can also mean just "developement" or "series of changes", and not necessarily good ones.
Ok, so maybe not the MOST fortunate choice of words, but still.
Would you have liked it better if I would have said "It's not by design, it's just how it ended up after some old changes" ?
It's the same thing, really, not my fault you misunderstood me.

Fact remains, the Amarr were NOT "weak by design", and the Gankageddon IS more than ample proof for that... for as long as it existed, anyway.
It's like claiming "Caldari suck at PvP by design"... well, might I remind you of the cruise Kestrels, or the "omfg-always-hit-for-full-damage" torp Ravens of old ?

Things change in the game. It's a constant developement.
Some race gets better, other get worse.
It is evolution. Not of any race, but of the game.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:15:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Malashek Vatrii
I guess that counts me out. I started Caldari, and then switched to Amarr... now I'm switching to Gallente or Mini.

Wew go indecision!

(Mind you I *can* fly every Amarr sub-capital ship)


Hehe, yeah, it was more of a "family jones" snipe at him Laughing

Caldari and Amarr, as well as Gallente and Minmatar, seem to have this "we fly eachothers ships" thing. Must be the whole war thing.

Most amarr train caldari ships too, mostly cause we got the whole khanid thing and most caldari train amarr too, also due to the khanid thing i believe.

Makes for an easy switch.

Maximada
Minmatar
Black Aces
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:21:00 - [41]
 

I remember years ago when everyone was crying about how crap minmatars were. Its not like there is one race that is supremely overpowered anymore like when the caldaris ruled space. I just dont realise what all the moaning on the forums is about 'my race is crap now blah blah blah' who cares tbh at the end of the day we chose our races from the off and after a year in eve i was thinking i wish i knew more before choosing minmatar but you adapt and a true eve pilot will make the best of what he has rather than the everyday forum moan that were seeing everyday.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:46:00 - [42]
 

The basic design philosiphy behind Amarr ship design is brute force. Lot's of armour and lot's of damage with little room for flexibility or fancy tricks.
This in itself is fine, there's nothing specifically wrong with our ships being the most vulnerable to EW as our ships are infact designed to work best as part of a group (the slot layout promotes heavily specialised setups over more general ones).

The only real problem is that our ships don't do the two main things they are designed to do any better (and often worse) than other races. Granted in terms of tanking we still have some of the better ships but there are plenty that can match us in this area.
In damage terms however, we've been slowly crippled through numerous changes to the game mechanics that leaves many of our ships useless in comparison.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:51:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 25/10/2007 13:51:42
Originally by: Wild Rho
In damage terms however, we've been slowly crippled through numerous changes to the game mechanics that leaves many of our ships useless in comparison.


Yeha, there's nothing wrong with our damage.

We are, i think, in par with other races in damage. It's just that, over the years, the resistances somehow went against us.

Kinda like "yeah, we still shoot bullets, they just developed those darn vests."

Lucre
STK Scientific
Black-Out
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:57:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Titus Lewis
In fact, if you were CCP and had to pick one group to be the weakest, wouldn't you pick Amarr?



Er, no, I'd pick Minmatar. They're the romantic rebel slaves whereas Amarr are the evil empire slavelords. People playing Minmatar *want* to be the underdogs so surely they're a much more logical choice?

Besides, Minnie ships look like junk - surely nobody would think it unreasonable if they flew like it too? Wink

Oosel
The Riot Formation
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:11:00 - [45]
 

dont worry about us older amarr players....we have wow for the many long months on non eve play and we have patience....it still doesnt stop my daily sales eve wise and i can rest easily knowing my skills still rack up. amarr players have time and money on their side

Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:13:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Sarah Aubry
Give amarr more cap recharge, the rep bonus gallente got and buff their hp more and they will look like the race they were depicted to be. Big slow heavy tanking laser ships.

I worry about the new t2 frig with more drones than gallente :\


If you guys get anymore cap recharge buffs, you are gonna be insane godlike people and NOBODY is gonna use lasers. If it were me, I would setup arty/autos and afk omnitank anybody's damage. Hell alot of you guys do it now.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:19:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 25/10/2007 13:51:42
Originally by: Wild Rho
In damage terms however, we've been slowly crippled through numerous changes to the game mechanics that leaves many of our ships useless in comparison.


Yeha, there's nothing wrong with our damage.

We are, i think, in par with other races in damage. It's just that, over the years, the resistances somehow went against us.

Kinda like "yeah, we still shoot bullets, they just developed those darn vests."


we are just waiting for someone to work out how to get through that vest, (torp raven with explosive?)

and the gankageddon is still no match for the gankathron. at least i think not.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:20:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Sharupak
Originally by: Sarah Aubry
Give amarr more cap recharge, the rep bonus gallente got and buff their hp more and they will look like the race they were depicted to be. Big slow heavy tanking laser ships.

I worry about the new t2 frig with more drones than gallente :\


If you guys get anymore cap recharge buffs, you are gonna be insane godlike people and NOBODY is gonna use lasers. If it were me, I would setup arty/autos and afk omnitank anybody's damage. Hell alot of you guys do it now.


lol yes, lets enslave a race, and then discover they have better weaponry then us!!!

Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:37:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Sharupak on 25/10/2007 14:43:05
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Sharupak
Originally by: Sarah Aubry
Give amarr more cap recharge, the rep bonus gallente got and buff their hp more and they will look like the race they were depicted to be. Big slow heavy tanking laser ships.

I worry about the new t2 frig with more drones than gallente :\


If you guys get anymore cap recharge buffs, you are gonna be insane godlike people and NOBODY is gonna use lasers. If it were me, I would setup arty/autos and afk omnitank anybody's damage. Hell alot of you guys do it now.


lol yes, lets enslave a race, and then discover they have better weaponry then us!!!


But its true, they run around in their 30k armor repping tanks with 80% resist battleships (Its an exaggeration I realize that) and cry foul at minnies that try to counter with nanophoons.

Perhaps lowering laser cap use would help with the problem, but would that make hybrids a non option as a weapon?

Even in the scenario the OP posted. those situations happen in every single game and I dont think it has anything to do with..."lets make a crap race with the best RP storyline for all the D&D nerds to latch onto and complain since they are in the minority and that will equal less complaints by the rest of the community." It always comes down to a game mechanic that becomes difficult to balance. CAP is as vital... actually more vital than armor and shields because when you are out of it, you have nothing... no offense, defense, ew, or escapeability.

Honestly, the best way to fix it would probably be to come up with another stat that is disassociated with all of that. Like (hell, I dont know what to call it) "Laser Mojo" so that when it runs out, Amarr ships still have survivability. But then it pretty much becomes an "ammo stat" but the cool thing is that it would be a "recharging" ammo stat. Maybe you should fit a lowslot module for this that increases it. But balance it so that the one module is all you would need to sustain fire to almost indefinately and it increases one weapon stat (tracking damage etc...).

Take that with a grain of salt, as I dont fly Amarr ships so it could be a complete crap idea. The other thing is ranges of lasers are freakin wierd! It would definately take me some time to adjust to that maybe there is an advantage to this idk, If there isnt, perhaps this could be adjusted as well.

Alvara
Kuiper Belt Industries
Empire Research
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:40:00 - [50]
 

I fly amarr almost exclusively. I switched from caldari early on. Why you may ask?

Its simple. I like not worrying about ammo, and setting up ships with perma tanks with no chance of running out of ammo. ;) Slow and steady wins more battles then quick and decisive.

I can do things in amarr ships, that other races can't. Like solo some incredibly hard complexes and missions in one go.

If I had to choose a race other then amarr, it'd be gallente though. I'm running out of amarr T2 ships to train for, so maybe I'll go that way next.

False Myrm
Minmatar
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:43:00 - [51]
 

Why does the race with the most obsolete ships (amarr) have the most high tech weapons (lasers)?

Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:15:00 - [52]
 

I have a real hard time understanding why our laser turrets have tracking rates comparable to other non-laser type turrets. I mean, seriously, projectile typed turrets have barrels and ammo chains extending from their breach. It makes sense that they'd have mass to swing around and traverse.

Laser turrets have none of that. I don't know why anyone would even have a 'turret' with a laser when essentially all you need is equipment built into the hull of the ship, and mirrors externally to direct the beams. Mirrors aren't light, but they're a lot lighter than ammo and huge metal bored barrels.

We should have 1/4 or 1/8 the tracking of other turreted systems. Better tracking would equate out to more critical hits more often - which would be a boost to damage.


Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:37:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 25/10/2007 15:37:28
Originally by: Sharupak
But its true, they run around in their 30k armor repping tanks with 80% resist battleships (Its an exaggeration I realize that) and cry foul at minnies that try to counter with nanophoons.


Yeah, i only get like, around 75% resists on my abaddon Sad

Maybe i should post my idea for a HEAT producing, module targetting amarr laser turret here too Laughing

Tia Seras
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:41:00 - [54]
 

Of my two main characters, one is Amarr (my original pick when I started), the other is Caldari. At the time I didn't know the intricacies of the racial makeup of the player base, I just thought the Amarr as sort of duty bound Roman legionaires toward the end of the empire. Slaves are traded openly in Amarr, and even if I have 30 slaves from some mission I keep them in a hangar, drinking Quafe, as I am loathe to sell Eve flesh. (Since they aren't worth much anyway I can afford this moral stance). I'll gladly give them to a Minmitar character but I do believe there is no vehicle for actually "freeing" slaves in-game. If I try to fly them to Minmitar space I'll get busted for sure, so they play dice, ogle Amarrian women,and await their fate. Just like the 40 militants I have doing odd jobs and keeping the place clean.

Since Amarrians are politically incorrect given their slaver backgrounds, are they deliberately being kept down by the Devs? Maintaining this tactical inequality may be a deliberate intent, since they seem to be an odious bunch. But a 51% good, 49% evil universe will still appeal to Carebears, so let the Amarr be the reviled ones!

My Amarr character is currently satisfied with being a successful merchant, gathering ISK, flying an occasional mission to keep sharp, and ratting for loot and salvage. Joining a corporation just to get ganked to and from Jita sounds like a lot of stress to me, and having to meet at system "X" to mine ore to build the next capital behemoth for the glory of corporate and alliance warfare just seems like work.

I've always liked the underdog, miserable curs we may be. But moaning because another race has an advantage? Pretty people have an advantage in the real world, and Gallente ships all look like they were designed from a pile of disembodied human organs anyway.

My consciousness drifts in and out of Eve, in and out of character. Do I want to be the Caldari lab-coated mousy production and mining genius today? Or do I want to strap myself in my Arbitrator and hunt Sansha's Minions? PvP? Naw, sounds like even more work, the game is challenging enough at this point. Maybe later when I have 15m+ skills or so.

Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:49:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 25/10/2007 15:37:28
Originally by: Sharupak
But its true, they run around in their 30k armor repping tanks with 80% resist battleships (Its an exaggeration I realize that) and cry foul at minnies that try to counter with nanophoons.


Yeah, i only get like, around 75% resists on my abaddon Sad

Maybe i should post my idea for a HEAT producing, module targetting amarr laser turret here too Laughing


You never know, this might be the day that you wont get flamed...the ground did feel aweful cold this morning.


No. Here is the real deal folks! Its job security! If CCP fixed Amarr, then half of the moderating community would get fired due to 50% less board activity due to no more annoying Amarr whine posts!LaughingLaughing

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:51:00 - [56]
 

Metal Bored barrels?

Thsi is the future man! We don't use metal. Our guns and ammo are made from composite plastics!


Khrillian
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
Hav0k.
Posted - 2007.10.25 16:30:00 - [57]
 

OP has a really good point.

Malashek Vatrii
Universal Apathy and Boredom
Posted - 2007.10.25 16:56:00 - [58]
 

Or get a free command ship from your corp mates by skilling in Gallente ASAP...


lol ^^

Andreya
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.10.25 17:51:00 - [59]
 

new amarr missile ships are amazing.. new t2 ewar frig rules, the sacriledge is a pimp daddy.. and the redeemer is going to be the best t2 Bs in the game hands down...
amarr is actually good enough now that i finished minmatar, now im doing amarr (ps the heretic is wicked, and the malediction rocks)


amarr kicks arse, stop complaining

Arnold Duncan
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:07:00 - [60]
 

I perfectly agree with the op.

The only thing the OP doesn't say but that i firmly believe is that the race is not always the same but usually cicles every almost every year.

Amarr were pretty good before stacking penalty and laser nerf. Now gallente is pretty good. Next year will be minmatar turn perhaps. And the (still perhaps) they'll care about amarr and bring them in line with other races.


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