open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked Tech II ships coming in Trinity, new Dev Blog by Fendahl
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 ... : last (18)

Author Topic

Vitaki
Rens 911
Posted - 2007.10.23 18:58:00 - [241]
 

#1 issue: Mechanical Engineering datacore prices are going to make all the bad ships unprofitable to invent. You will probably see very few people inventing any of the "bad" ships: Paladin, Golem, Devoter.

#2 issue: The Kronos is totally insane, it's going to blow everything out of the water. This one ship may even make all other t2 BS (including all black ops) unprofitable to invent.


I hope you change the Palidin and Golem when you see that no one invents them after the initial push. A T2 apoc without a damage bonus? Have you noticed that no one has flown an apoc since the abaddon was released? And a raven that does less damage then a CNR, and when you account for defenders it will do jack squat in missions?

Hardly anyone will sell any of the black ops either because you only need it for warping in your friends, I doubt you will see any in combat, instead they will just sit cloaked in safespots. As 1000 other people have said in this thread, they need to use cov ops cloaks.

The ewar frigs are probably going to make interceptors obsolete, even if they get the new changes as proposed currently on sisi. When an inty faces one of these it will just get killed or jammed or whatever.

All I know is that I'm stopping training for battleship invention (since I naivly believed that the Amarr marauder was going to be worth a damn) and I'll concentrate on the frigs and cruisers, but then again I won't bother with the amarr heavy dictor. I doubt it will be profitable to invent given Mechanical Engineering datacore prices.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2007.10.23 18:59:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Marauders
Simply, WTF?! This simply seems to be a means of appeasing the mission runners of Eve. 100% bonus to tractor beam, increased damage, and increased resists. You might as well up mission bounties and have all level5 agents require a standing of 1.0 whilst you're at it.
If these ships were paper-thin, over-gunned, pew-pew boats; I'd not have minded. But this ECM weakness seems to only exist in order to give the gimped ECM ships something to attack.

The majority of mission runners are Caldari trained and will not change to the Golem.
Firing 4 missiles of which 2, 3 or even all 4 will be shot down by defender missiles makes for less DPS than a BC (probably even less than a Caracal).



I believe that each time you fire a missile at the npc, the npc has a fixed chane of launching a defender. So the decrease of dps due to npc defenders shouldn't change.


You'll lose exactly as many missiles to a defender, true. But each missile does TWICE the damage as before and you shoot less missiles. When before a rat killed two of your missiles you lost 2 out of 6 (or 7), leaving you with 66% (72%) of your dps. When you lose 2 missiles with a Golem your dps goes down to 50%. Quite a significant difference.

The Golem as is will perform quite poorly in missions.

Aselus
Amarr
Crimson Right
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:03:00 - [243]
 

thanks for making the Amarr t2 BSes worthless ;-P. That's about all i can say, w/o exploding.

Cpt Constantinus
Corp 54
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:04:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Cpt Constantinus on 23/10/2007 19:06:20
The Paladin is probably the most useless ship ive ever seen, i mean...it tanks well..., great!
Oh, no...wait a sec, the Apoc already tanks more than enough for most missions...but...hrm, at least the Paladin can kill stupid frig pilots which are braindamaged enough to get into webrange, if it actualy gets trough their tank.

So, thanks CCP, another massively underpowered Amarr ship, cause we are already blessed with so many great ships.

Sonreir
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:06:00 - [245]
 

Forgive me, 10 pages is a lot to read through this time of night.
Has anyone yet mentioned the huge boost to Caldari? Reduced sensor strengths on T2 BS pretty much is a boost to ECM and Caldari. Do we really want to go back to the days of 20 Blackbirds in a gang?

FalconHawk
Amarr
Shadow Rebellion
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:09:00 - [246]
 

Amarr needs oomph ffs ....all u do is give it another umph ...
i wish one of the devs would start to fly amarr ships again ...



Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:12:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 23/10/2007 19:15:53
ok so I'v read the devblog a few hours ago, so that I could took some time to chew on it.
and here is the reaction:

EA ships: no matter what bonuses they have. they are tough, for a frigate, true, but the mass of them pretty much makes them toothless Afrigs with Ewar capabilities. meaning, with all the medslots directed to Ewar, and that puny ammount of low-slots, I can see them dying horribly to a smart crow pilot. sure the kitsune MIGHT be of a bit more lucky with ECM, unless the crow packs FoF lights (lol). cool ships tho, if you don't count the fact that even nano-ed they can be outrun by inties and even some Afrigs.

besides that, I see them as nasty ships.
In sum: nice Ewar frigates with good resists counterbalanced by an ungodly screwed up mass.
addendum: the sentinel kinda sucks. not as in sucking cap, but as in sucks really, altho I have to admit that 3 T2 neuts can make the ship kill as much cap as 2 heavy ones.

ZOINKS!

HI ships: again same problem as the EA's. some even have 50% more mass than their T1 counterparts.
In particular:
Devoter: WTF CCP? W T F? "oh hay we use this maller model and remove 1 turret! but we still slap a 6th high. AMARR IS LE FIXED!"Rolling Eyes

Onyx: 16m kg? WHAT IS THIS SHIP? A ****IN' BAG FULL OF LEAD?

Phobos: the shi is rather nice, besides the extra pounds it gained and the extra grid. grid that the deimos should have. Why does a ship that designed more to interdiction, have a large grid than a ship that is designed to kill stuff, I don't know.

Broadsword: bit imba, altho it's kinda cutted off by the nearly 40% increase on weight. it doesn't make the fact that it's the most damaging of the lot by a wide margin tho.


Black ops ships:

ships that are screwed here.
the jump capability is nice, but wtf? some bonuses are a bit stupid and the whole lot seems a bit mixed up tbh. the bonuses are bit stupid. I was waiting for more role-directed bonuses, like jump range or fuel consumption or smth.
if you do that, you might consider make them use cov ops cloak.


marauders:

it ranges from screwed up (LOLadin) to almost imbalanced (Kronos), to "WTF?" (Vargur), finishing in a "dude, where's my missiles?" golem.

the LOLadin has sucky firepower (comparable to the apoc, wich tbh is pants), for the same cap consumption that the apoc has on guns.

the Kronos is almost imbalanced. almost, cuz a kitsune, heck a griffin! can almost permajam the ship.
it will be a bit overkill for 1vs1 tho.

the Vargur is weird.
CCP, did you want to make a mission ship or a multipurpose ship here? cuz if you wanted to make a mission ship you failed. AC's suck for missions, and the ship has nigh no grid to fit howies, unless you slap a full rack of PDU's or smth. if it's multi-purpose I guess it's passable, but it still lacks grid.

the Golem will lose at least 25% of his firepower (50 to 75% if you're a bit unlucky) if the npc's start spamming defenders. that is if you use cruise missiles. sieges seem to be a bit out of the equation because of the torp change. The javelin torps are feasible here, but it still sucks. Either way, CNR mk.II? no, more like Raven mk 1.5.



all in all, the ships, if they go to TQ like this will be a dissapointment.

the EA ships are pretty much nerfed the same way the Afrigs are: fat frigates.
the HI ships are like this 150/200mil worth coffin, with their gigantic mass.
the Black ops are... well lost. They will be usefull, yes, but I would use only them in 1 way: jump portal + cargo expanders for fuel. oh and a cloak and mwd. anything else? no. the bonuses are too weird to know how the **** you can fly a near-1bill portable gate ship that can pretty much go "BOOM", and stuffs.
the Marauders range from LOL imbalanced to LOLadin. can't say anything else here.

Arshes Nei
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:12:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Disco Flint
Originally by: Shadowsword

I believe that each time you fire a missile at the npc, the npc has a fixed chane of launching a defender. So the decrease of dps due to npc defenders shouldn't change.


You'll lose exactly as many missiles to a defender, true. But each missile does TWICE the damage as before and you shoot less missiles. When before a rat killed two of your missiles you lost 2 out of 6 (or 7), leaving you with 66% (72%) of your dps. When you lose 2 missiles with a Golem your dps goes down to 50%. Quite a significant difference.

The Golem as is will perform quite poorly in missions.


I think you misunderstand shadowsword there. If everytime you shoot a missile at a rat there is a 50% chance of a defender for example, than you will on average have 3 defenders coming at you in your raven. A golem would have 2 defenders coming for him on average, which might be better because it afaik takes 3 defenders to kill a torp. So this might even be a advantage for the golem.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:22:00 - [249]
 

Adding to the spam-

BlackOps ships: without CovOps cloaks- useless. It doesn't even matter about their stats (Panther, Redeemer, Widow look sexy, Sin- agility bonus to a 140m ton ship? Who cares?).

Marauders:

Golem w/ torps and explosion velocity bonus = awesome. Built in TP bonus. It'll hit hard vs. smaller targets with torps. All the Caldari guys whining about it are just ridiculous. With the proper fit, it will be great. Plus a shield tanking bonus.

Paladin: meh? Web bonus? Why not web range bonus? Larger ships need to stop targets at range, not at less than 10km.

Vargur: will be nice with ACs.

Kronos: same as the Paladin- range bonus to webs > strength bonus.

EW frigs:

Have to see how these play out, they all look really nice. Keres looks down on DPS. Rolling Eyes

Inties: I see half of them still get their range bonus to scrams. Will be scary.

Heavy Dictors: the big question: will they work in low sec/empire, and will they stop MSs from jumping? Other than that, who cares.


Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:23:00 - [250]
 

I'm still trying to figure out how a Golem does less damage than a Navy Issue Raven actually. 100% bonus to damage tells me that I'm getting the damage of 2 missiles for the price of 1, which suggests the equalvant of 8 launchers, with my simple math. Now I'm not arguing that defenders throw a huge wrench into that forumula, it does seem that they'd deliver a larger punch when looking at base stats. Can someone tell me what I'm missing here? Thanks!

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:24:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Regat Kozovv
I'm still trying to figure out how a Golem does less damage than a Navy Issue Raven actually. 100% bonus to damage tells me that I'm getting the damage of 2 missiles for the price of 1, which suggests the equalvant of 8 launchers, with my simple math. Now I'm not arguing that defenders throw a huge wrench into that forumula, it does seem that they'd deliver a larger punch when looking at base stats. Can someone tell me what I'm missing here? Thanks!


ROF bonus on CNR, which means everytime golem fires 4 (=8) missiles, cnr fires 9,33 worth of missiles

CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2007.10.23 19:29:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Alex Mistery
CCP disappointed me a lot!

New ships and old skins! Boring! :-( New ships should have new appearance! Thus new ship's ability will no give happiness and fun for me. I don't want it to have at all. ;-(((

P.S. Acpecially - Pink Thorax!? OMG! WTF! Whom it is designed for? For blonds? Stupidity!

If it will really happen I will defenetely stop playing EVE.
Tech II are only advanced versions of Tech I ships, only new ship classes get their own new design. This is intentional. Wink

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:31:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 23/10/2007 19:31:20
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Alex Mistery
CCP disappointed me a lot!

New ships and old skins! Boring! :-( New ships should have new appearance! Thus new ship's ability will no give happiness and fun for me. I don't want it to have at all. ;-(((

P.S. Acpecially - Pink Thorax!? OMG! WTF! Whom it is designed for? For blonds? Stupidity!

If it will really happen I will defenetely stop playing EVE.
Tech II are only advanced versions of Tech I ships, only new ship classes get their own new design. This is intentional. Wink


Or maybe s1 was too lazy to create new models? Thats why heavy dictors use tier3 except caldari which uses tier2. And thats why all races use covops frig except caldari who uses griffin?

EDIT:
anyways can you respond to heavy dictor questions?

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:32:00 - [254]
 

Dear CCP,

in my position as Amarr Player since Beta Phase 6, let me say one thing: Im not amused.


We, the oldtimers, eagerly waited in faith and thrust, that your newest additions to the Amarr Navy would be both "amarrian" and "useable". Both failed on an epic scale, to use a commen phrase. Let me explain: Amarr ships passive tank. In PvE, thats not useable. So you screw up the most useless BS (Apoc) with an un-amarrian bonus, to make it good in PvE, the rep amount bonus. Not only is this bonus Gallente, but it also nails the T2 Apoc into PvE like no other Marauder! Even the Golem comes out better, although it gets the minmatar boost bonus. The Paladin is thus forced to PvE because it cant passive tank its armor! That means PvE-Only! And its the worst PvE Ship i have ever seen. Ill take a 100mil Raven over that 1b isk floating brick any day.

Im not going to scream nerf Gallente or Minmatar, they got pretty decent allround ships, overpriced for what they do, but okay. But in an ideal world (my world ^^) you would just scrap the PvE-Battleship concept and focus on adding good T2 BS instead of serving to the Carebears and Alt-Farmers. Its obvious that you want to reserve the tier3 Hulls for all out onslaught Bonus, but dont gimp allready useless ships for Stuff thats years out!

If the amarr navy needed a new allround super heavy duty vessel, they would increase armor durability (hitpoints) and improve dps and alpha in the midrange. So lets look at it:

Good Paladin

8 HI - 5 Turrets
4 ME
7 LO

BS Bonus: -10% Cap Use on Lasers per Level
BS Bonus: +10% Armor Amount per Level (fixed Apoc)
MR Bonus: +100% Damage Bonus to large Lasers
MR Bonus: +5% Armor Resists per level

This fixes many things:
1) Does more Damage than the loltastic Apocalypse
2) Does not instapop under fire
3) Can tank Active and Passive
4) Keeps the crappy capbonus on lasers so you dont have to fix amarr
5 It is worth it

Oh by the way, agility bonus on Sin? Thats not even sad anymore. Laughing

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:32:00 - [255]
 

my earlier reply was hastily made. still think it is a somewhat creative way to help amarr with cap; but the problem is they didn't replace the 10% cap/level bonus with a worthwhile one

and i wont complain over a 7.5% rep bonus unless someone can show that a 5% resist is better. because looking at a hype and abaddon with all skills level 5 and the same tank setup they hype is tanking more damage.

tbh i haven't even looked at the black ops yet...

Nick Marsh
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:42:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Nick Marsh on 23/10/2007 19:48:24
resists are better than armor repair amount when u are getting remote repaired, well that usually only happends in ganking a level 5 mission or goin spidertank pvp, the last of those 2 is obvious not gonna happen a lot cos its a mission ship.

How I would see a paladin in line
Good Paladin

7 HI - 4 Turrets
4 ME
7 LO

BS Bonus: -10% Cap Use on Lasers per Level OR larger cap OR faster cap recharge
BS Bonus: +5% RoF Bonus to Large lasers per Level OR +10% Optimal for lasers
MR Bonus: +5% Damage Bonus to Large lasers per Level
MR Bonus: +5% Armor Resists per level OR keep that 7.5% armor rep its better for solo-tanking

+100% Damage Bonus to large Lasers (ofc the marauder bonus)
and ofc the nice tractor bonus :P

that would be more inline and give amarr something they could use...
but ofc ccp wont do that, they fear the unexisting amarr power!

Dupac
Subite
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:43:00 - [257]
 

About a year ago I started cross training minmatar instead of amarr - looking at these new ships, I'm really happy I did that, most of the minnie ones are pretty interesting- fast webbing frigs might give nano gangs a bit of a fright if they have enough support.

Having said that, for the sake of those of you still stuck using amarr, the Paladin is one piece of crap when compared to the others, needs some extra damage in a big way.

Considering the calls that went out for an amarr improvement and the laughable "amarr boost" this is an extra slap in the face I imagine.


Oron
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:45:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Oron on 23/10/2007 20:03:00
Edited by: Oron on 23/10/2007 19:54:53
Originally by: Grimpak

ships that are screwed here.
the jump capability is nice, but wtf? some bonuses are a bit stupid and the whole lot seems a bit mixed up tbh. the bonuses are bit stupid. I was waiting for more role-directed bonuses, like jump range or fuel consumption or smth.
if you do that, you might consider make them use cov ops cloak.

I really like the damage bonus on the widow, you know there is something you can use it for after you sneaked in. The Jump Portal is'nt the main feature in my point of view. Its nice - but I would be glad to screw it ie. for the usage of a co-cloak, or a 20% ECM str.

The 25% speed bonus, means they are cloaked faster than uncloaked like the bombers - right?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:51:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Nick Marsh
Edited by: Nick Marsh on 23/10/2007 19:48:24
resists are better than armor repair amount when u are getting remote repaired, well that usually only happends in ganking a level 5 mission or goin spidertank pvp, the last of those 2 is obvious not gonna happen a lot cos its a mission ship.

How I would see a paladin in line
Good Paladin

7 HI - 4 Turrets
4 ME
7 LO

BS Bonus: -10% Cap Use on Lasers per Level OR larger cap OR faster cap recharge
BS Bonus: +5% RoF Bonus to Large lasers per Level OR +10% Optimal for lasers
MR Bonus: +5% Damage Bonus to Large lasers per Level
MR Bonus: +5% Armor Resists per level OR keep that 7.5% armor rep its better for solo-tanking

+100% Damage Bonus to large Lasers (ofc the marauder bonus)
and ofc the nice tractor bonus :P

that would be more inline and give amarr something they could use...
but ofc ccp wont do that, they fear the unexisting amarr power!


now that would make me wet

A Sinner
Muppet Factory
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:51:00 - [260]
 

Hi, I went on Sisi and the server is currently down but it said its downloading a graphic update in the background. Its been doing that since 30 minutes or so. Is there a way to see if its actually downloading... and to keep track of how much more time it needs before it will finish and stuff like that? Thanks in advance.

Mastin Dragonfly
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:52:00 - [261]
 

Wish I could give some constructive criticism on the Paladin. Tuxford acknowledged last Februari (!) that the Apoc needs a change/boost and now you present us with a T2 version that is just as pointless/useless?

Delichon
Armored Saints
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:53:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Perry
Amarr ships passive tank. In PvE, thats not useable.


Drake?

(just wanted to adress a thought I find not really worked out well)

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:54:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Wish I could give some constructive criticism on the Paladin. Tuxford acknowledged last Februari (!) that the Apoc needs a change/boost and now you present us with a T2 version that is just as pointless/useless?


Its hidden apoc boost. Its now the cheaper one from 2 equally crappy ships.

Elseer Radak
Gallente
Project F3
TRUST Coalition
Posted - 2007.10.23 19:55:00 - [264]
 

Hi,

for the ecm boats, there is a drone oddness:

Sentinel (60m3 drones with 20mbit/s) vs. Keres (10m3 drone bay with 10mbit/s)

it seems like a bug or a misprint

For the Heavy interdictors, why did the Phobos(thorax) and the Onyx (caracel) loose the drone bay of the matching Cruiser?
Also, why did the Phobos loose the coveted MWD bonus of the throx? Gallette are close combat folks (e.g. blasters and mwd not rails). Mind you the Armour resists are quite nice but seem more in keeping with Amarr Philospohy of the Maller than the Gallette sensibilities for the thoraz


When looking at the Drone capabilites of the Black Ops Sin (Domini base 125m/s, 400m3 drones) and the Maurder Kronos (megathron base, 125m/s, 125m3 drones) it strikes me that the drone badwith bonus is not balanced correctly. a Dominx is a drone boat designed to field 5x of each drone type (or scads of small / medium) while the Megtron is usually only seen with 5x ogre II's. So why do two diversae ship bases have the same drone data through put (suggesting that the ONLY function difference is drone bay)? Does 125m/s provide enough bandwith to control 5x T2 sentery drones - either way it's a balance problem (A dominx Base should be able to cntrol 5x Sentery II's but not a megathron base)?


Elseer R.

Tania Volkova
Zzz
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:05:00 - [265]
 

"the paladin needs to be rethought. it doesn't do anything particularly well.
1) sub par damage (abaddon does more dps)
2) cap amount bonus when it should be a regen bonus.
3) sub par tanking (abaddon gets better resists after bonus)

why is a t2 ship tanking less and doing less dps then a t1 counter part? I don't care if it's a tier 3 battleship.
this is tech 2 battleship.
and wtf is going on with the kronos doing nearly 2000 dps?

I want to know whose in charge of balancing amarr ships. the guy should be fired."

/Signed


SmokeTheFly
Caldari
Elite Force
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:07:00 - [266]
 

I am not impressed at all, anyone can mix up stats and give the ship a new name. I honestly thought we would be getting NEW SHIPS.
Just lazy IMO. Neutral

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:10:00 - [267]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 23/10/2007 20:10:53
Originally by: Elmicker
Why does the amarr one get so many drones in comparison to the gallente one? It's ridiculous when coupled with its neuting capability.

As for the black ops, covert cynos are a bad thing all round, imo, but i'll wait to see them in action on sisi before passing judgement. The sin and kronos look to be ridiculously overpowered right from the outset, so situation normal with the gallente, but apart from that, i dont think i can add anything to the discussion. Nice blog and nice work.


The keres is miles miles miles miles better than the Sentinel. Wooo, frigate neuts to 20km, oh wait, worse than a single battleship neut, doesnt incap frigates or any other ships naerly as fast as any of the other three ships, and also isnt a damage bonus.

Its only redeeming feature is that its an amarr frigate and has 4 meds.

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Quote:
vargur stuff


It would be awesome if it wad the PG to fit 4 Arties with 1 PG module. It needs at LEAST 9K PG.



I would agree with that. Though with the falloff bonus, ACs should be just fine for missions.

Leya Marcsson
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:13:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Tania Volkova
and wtf is going on with the kronos doing nearly 2000 dps?

Oh its getting heigher as longer the thread exists :D

Magister Herm
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:16:00 - [269]
 

Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?

Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat?
(Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?)

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:24:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Magister Herm
Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?

Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat?
(Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?)

You mean like the Dominix and Ishtar?


Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 ... : last (18)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only