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Skidblatnir
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:25:00 - [151]
 

Would be nice if the Vargur at least had the grid to fit 4x 1200mm Tech 1 artilleries.
Not even that fits, with Engineering 5 and AWU 5.

With autocannons, that ships needs a mobile refinery and a mobile assembly line to be able to produce its own ammo. Maybe even two, just to keep up Very Happy

Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:26:00 - [152]
 

Only one question, Can the warp disruption field generator be used in low sec?? and is yes, does it flag you at gates if there is no target yet?

Cerina Natal
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:28:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Kyn D'Trell
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:54:55
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:53:11
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:40:09
Can we the please get a answer from a dev on the black ops cloaking question?

ATM it looks like they cant use the covert ops cloaking device, someone else already comented on how this would be a ineffective ship like bombers if so.. and i have to agree, the cost of the ship isnt worth putting it at risk warping it into a gate camp/station camp then cloaking and hoping you can move fast enough before some uber fast inty breaks your cloak.. and tbh im gunne be a little PO'd i wasted a few months training for it when it cant be used effectivly. (Yes the jump drive is a nice touch)

I ghost fleet alot and pretty much any ghost fleet ive heard of, is living deep in hostile held systems and more often then not totally out gunned, the ability to warp in and out, to be able to move to where a viable target is, is just plain needed and outwieghs any cloaked speed bonus (its a battleship, cmon, your never gunna get close to a target before it warps out due to boredom).

I play EVE to pvp, not to farm isk. With the cost of these ships going to be as high as everyone is saying they will be, they just wont be worth it without being able to warp into a hostile situation and get set up for the kill(s) because just like bombers, youll warp in and cloak, then like bombers youll try to move away from the spot to get safe.. and then the nano-frigs/cruisers with drones being dragged behind it will decloak you, at least bombers have a slightly better chance of getting out of range first.

I've waited 2+ years for T2 bs's, please dont let me (and the others who have waited forever for t2 bs's) down.

PS. anychances of getting gun slots on widow? insta dmg ftw Smile
PSS. what happened to t2 frieghters?Sad



Hey M8 its pritty ovious that CCP want people to equip the BlackOps BS with a improved cloak like the bombers. Otherwise they wouldnt have specifyed that BlackOps dont have a locking penalty as a CoviCloak dont have locking penalty at all.
I do think it sux with the big ass hauls this ships have they are going to be sitting ducks...really face it. BlackOps if for going in on a smash and grap op and get out fast, with the mass and agility of the BlackOps ships they will be sitting ducks especially with the power nano ships currently hold in EvE...

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:34:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Alex Harumichi

The Amarr, however, are left holding the "wtf?" stick.



After a while you get used to this. You just train gallente ships.


Yeah, we'd whine but nobody seems to care.

C.


Khan Soriano
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:34:00 - [155]
 

I just want to point out one thing to all those who trained for Black Ops and are now disappointed by their change:

We can now use at least use a part of those skills to fly T2 freighters!!!Laughing

Sure they will be probably pricey as hell but with mission-*****s-wet-dreams-BS it'll be easy as hell making the cash.

Also... Minmatar new toys 4TW, frig+heavy dictor = WIN

Alyxa Mahan
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:36:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Teploman
Paladin = apoc, which with current bonuses has the same role as kronos, but is worse in every aspect except of the tank (which is similar) = pure fail

Actually, no.
Aside from the slightly better fittings (the Kronos looses 4375mw with 3 turrets to the Mega, the Paladin loses 7500mw with 4 turrets to the Apoc, and with hybrids costing more tf the CPU staying the same slightly favors the Paladin), it also costs more than twice as much cap to fire the Paladins weapons, which means less cap (or time, in case of cap boosters) for the tank.
And no, the cap bonus doesn't make up for that.


Ivan Bigun
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:39:00 - [157]
 

Firstly, whats with the masses on those ships? Traditionally each race is different, Caldari the heaviest, then Amarr, Gallante and Minmatar have the lightest, most agile ships.

Now it seems Amarr have been relegated to last place together with the sluggish Caldari and Gallante have been boosted up to Minmatar agility levels.

Secondly, yet again it seems no-one on your Dev team actually play Amarr. No-one uses a webber on an Amarr BS. Pulses do not need one, and tachs would never hit anything even with dual webs. The only remotely useful type of web bonus would be range based instead of velocity. This would make more sense as Pulses are more midrange than shortrange anyway - whereas Blasters on a Kronos benefit from the velocity bonus as they are pure shortrange.

As it stands, everyone gets a fantastic new BS to use, except your favourite punching bag the Amarr race who yet again lose out.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:40:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Elmicker
Edited by: Elmicker on 23/10/2007 15:10:05
Originally by: Cailais
they need to be able to warp while cloaked


No they don't. That would be called a solopwnmobile.

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
May as well remove the hi-slots and damage bonuses from the black-ops ships. I doubt in their current state they will ever see combat.


lol, speak for yourself. The sin looks excellent.


Isnt the Carrier *cough* a 'solo pwnmobile' aswell though?

Nah just pulling your chain, I dont like the carrier nerf either. But I would say the Black Ops should be able to war while cloaked - they otherwise very much the same as their T1 counterparts but are likely to cost 10 x as much: plus it would make small cloaked gangs of Black Ops and Recons awesome (well if the boost the pilgrim it will Very Happy)

C.


Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:40:00 - [159]
 

One other quibble: how the hell are the marauders going to be of any use vs. Guristas with their low sensor strength?

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:41:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Garrakh
Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.



FO bonus + Web bonus + gimped grid = Autocannons


But the gallente marauder is not limited same way. Neither the Ammar one etc.. why is that? Why the Vargur is the only one that has the weaposn PRe selected by the devs? Come on, the maelstrom tha everyone uses as AC ship has PG to fit a dozen Arties while the vargur has no PG. WTF? No one do missions with AC!

Rosa Rosette
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:43:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Wrayeth
One other quibble: how the hell are the marauders going to be of any use vs. Guristas with their low sensor strength?


NPC jamming is chance based, was allready answered by a dev on page two i think

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:44:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Garrakh
Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.



FO bonus + Web bonus + gimped grid = Autocannons


But the gallente marauder is not limited same way. Neither the Ammar one etc.. why is that? Why the Vargur is the only one that has the weaposn PRe selected by the devs? Come on, the maelstrom tha everyone uses as AC ship has PG to fit a dozen Arties while the vargur has no PG. WTF? No one do missions with AC!


I will GLADLY swap an ability to fit tachys for 10% opti/lvl or damage bonus on paladin tbfh.

Trass
Caldari
Lamb Federation Navy
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:44:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Trishan
Originally by: Serenity Black
i cannot see who will use a Golem for missions:
- it will be more expensive than a cnr
- it has less firepower than a cnr


Its a T2 version of a T1 ship. Its not a T2 version of a faction ship.

Its a T2 version doing dmg like T1 version which cost 8-10x less.

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:47:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Trass
Its a T2 version doing dmg like T1 version which cost 8-10x less.


Yes, but it'll tank at the same level as the T1 version fitted with mods worth 10-20x the cost of the ship. So it balances out.

Ed Gein
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:48:00 - [165]
 

Marauders.. /sigh

There are no PVP bs's in the tech 2 bracket now. There is no reason to fly a Marauder over a normal tech 1 BS for normal pvp operations.

oh well, typical

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:51:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Ed Gein
Marauders.. /sigh

There are no PVP bs's in the tech 2 bracket now. There is no reason to fly a Marauder over a normal tech 1 BS for normal pvp operations.

oh well, typical


Except for Kronos for 1v1 "omgpwn" combat ;p

The others? Id take on with geddon tbh.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:55:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Ed Gein
Marauders.. /sigh

There are no PVP bs's in the tech 2 bracket now. There is no reason to fly a Marauder over a normal tech 1 BS for normal pvp operations.

oh well, typical


Except for Kronos for 1v1 "omgpwn" combat ;p

The others? Id take on with geddon tbh.


Exaclty.. Wt hell is wrong with the balance guys? Are they so blind they cannot see how much more powerfull the Kronos is when compared to anythign else?


The golen is not bad as a bait ship sicne it nows take over the maelstrom title as the heaviest tank.

Samiloth Justinian
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:56:00 - [168]
 

No covert ops cloak on the Black Op? Crying or Very sad Come on, that must be a typo, right?

3Fingered Pete
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:56:00 - [169]
 

I'm amazed the Paladin didn't get a bonus to mining lasers tbh, seeing as thats all the Apoc is good for.

Sort your crap out CCP and get someone who actually uses Amarr ships into your Dev department. Amarr were always meant to be BIG GUNS and BIG TANKS. Surely thats nice and easy for you to remember. As it stands the Abaddon outshines the Paladin in every way except the damn cargo bay.

Matalino
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:03:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.

This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.

In that case...
Quote:
but with sensor strengths comparable to cruisers the Marauders can be jammed quite easily if they are not hardened with ECCM.
should say...
Quote:
but with sensor strengths comparable to cruisers the Marauders can be scan probed quite easily if they are not hardened with ECCM.
There is minimal risk of a mission running ship getting jammed by another player unless it is first scanned out of its deadspace. This is a fair weakness to these otherwise uber mission runners. Just please tell us what the real weaknesses are.

Styre Blixtsnabb
Caldari
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:03:00 - [171]
 

Nice work all around. I think these are interesting roles that could very well change certain aspects of PvP in a very cool way. I think this is also a good step towards ships not being balanced.


Pirates don't use Spell CheckYARRRR!!

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:03:00 - [172]
 

Using the Griffin for the new Caldari EAS hull brings up a question:

Will the rest of the T1 frigates that don't have a T2 variant ever get one? It really does make the T1 ship more worth building if there are T2s they can be made into, and we all know most T1 frigates are underutilized. Perhaps some of the current T2s should be re-hulled, but wouldn't it have made more sense to just use a different T1 hull for the Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar EASes so the hulls would be more varied, and the T1s worth more? Plus, some of those frigates that don't have T2 variants are pretty nice ship designs, and ought to be seen more often in a T2 paint job.

Along the same lines, I'm not thrilled with the Heavy Interdictors using hulls that are already used for HACs. Why not base them on tier 2 battlecruisers, or use the same hulls as the logistics ships? The top tier cruisers are already plenty useful and as both combat ships and hulls for T2s.

I'm also curious why the Amarr didn't get a Khanid variant T2 battleship. Could it be you're admitting Khanid missile boats aren't exactly making true Amarr jump for joy?

Oh, and a pink Thorax? Guess somebody wants to please the female crowd, eh? When can we get a new feature to repaint our ships? Wink Shame Roden doesn't do more ships with the black and red scheme of the Ares. Even the Enyo looks a lot nicer than the paint for the Oneiros and Lachesis. Or will Trinity Roden ships be more red and less pink?


Oron
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:06:00 - [173]
 

Edited by: Oron on 23/10/2007 16:11:10
Edited by: Oron on 23/10/2007 16:08:35

Originally by: Ed Gein
There are no PVP bs's in the tech 2 bracket now.[...]oh well, typical

You are joking, right? Its just wrong to say CCP adds to many PvE ships. I don't fly missions so i don't need them, but I am glad for the guys who like that and get some new toys to play with.


Actual I could imagin the Kronos and the Golem in PvP. All the Black Ops are PvP too. Sure they need some change here and there. the ECM Bonus on the Widow, the agility, a CO-Cloak, being able to jump a tackler. Would be cool if they switch the Cloak-Speed Bonus for the Cloak-CPU Bonus :D

Chaala Stone
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:07:00 - [174]
 

Quote:

Sentinel
Hull: Crucifier / Viziam
Slots: 3/4/3, 2 turrets
Fitting: 195tf, 40mw
Drones: 20Mbit/s bandwidth, 60m3 drone bay
Sensors: 572mm scan res, 36.5km targeting range, 21pt radar
Propulsion: 374m/s, 1,525,000kg
Tech II resistance bonus: 50% explosive, 25% kinetic
...



Is the bolded line a typo? I.E. an Amarr frig that can field 4 light drones,
with 2 sets of spares? If it isn't, this might be a fun little ship.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:07:00 - [175]
 

BTW the Matari Marauder can even fit 800mm T2 AC. Not even those!!!

It seriously need more powergrid.

As of now its simply better use a maesltrom and fit fallof rigs for exactly same resulting ship., except mael will have more dps and more drones and cheaper.

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:08:00 - [176]
 

By the way, what's up with all the "role bonuses" ships get anymore? It seems like certain older ships like the assault frigates are gimped in comparison. Will we get some balancing to fix those, so they don't have a bonus wasted on resists that should be built in or made into a "role bonus" instead?

Sevis
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:17:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Chaala Stone
Quote:

Sentinel
Hull: Crucifier / Viziam
Slots: 3/4/3, 2 turrets
Fitting: 195tf, 40mw
Drones: 20Mbit/s bandwidth, 60m3 drone bay
Sensors: 572mm scan res, 36.5km targeting range, 21pt radar
Propulsion: 374m/s, 1,525,000kg
Tech II resistance bonus: 50% explosive, 25% kinetic
...



Is the bolded line a typo? I.E. an Amarr frig that can field 4 light drones,
with 2 sets of spares? If it isn't, this might be a fun little ship.


No, that has to be intentional. Its the only EW frigate that has a bonus to highslot modules. So you won't be equipping guns, you'll have to get your damage elsewhere.

Kyn D'Trell
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:17:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Cerina Natal
Originally by: Kyn D'Trell
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:54:55
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:53:11
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:40:09
Can we the please get a answer from a dev on the black ops cloaking question?

ATM it looks like they cant use the covert ops cloaking device, someone else already comented on how this would be a ineffective ship like bombers if so.. and i have to agree, the cost of the ship isnt worth putting it at risk warping it into a gate camp/station camp then cloaking and hoping you can move fast enough before some uber fast inty breaks your cloak.. and tbh im gunne be a little PO'd i wasted a few months training for it when it cant be used effectivly. (Yes the jump drive is a nice touch)

I ghost fleet alot and pretty much any ghost fleet ive heard of, is living deep in hostile held systems and more often then not totally out gunned, the ability to warp in and out, to be able to move to where a viable target is, is just plain needed and outwieghs any cloaked speed bonus (its a battleship, cmon, your never gunna get close to a target before it warps out due to boredom).

I play EVE to pvp, not to farm isk. With the cost of these ships going to be as high as everyone is saying they will be, they just wont be worth it without being able to warp into a hostile situation and get set up for the kill(s) because just like bombers, youll warp in and cloak, then like bombers youll try to move away from the spot to get safe.. and then the nano-frigs/cruisers with drones being dragged behind it will decloak you, at least bombers have a slightly better chance of getting out of range first.

I've waited 2+ years for T2 bs's, please dont let me (and the others who have waited forever for t2 bs's) down.

PS. anychances of getting gun slots on widow? insta dmg ftw Smile
PSS. what happened to t2 frieghters?Sad



Hey M8 its pritty ovious that CCP want people to equip the BlackOps BS with a improved cloak like the bombers. Otherwise they wouldnt have specifyed that BlackOps dont have a locking penalty as a CoviCloak dont have locking penalty at all.
I do think it sux with the big ass hauls this ships have they are going to be sitting ducks...really face it. BlackOps if for going in on a smash and grap op and get out fast, with the mass and agility of the BlackOps ships they will be sitting ducks especially with the power nano ships currently hold in EvE...


Id rather have a locking penalty tbh...

Achuramale
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:18:00 - [179]
 

Just realized something really weird.

Black Ops require Cloaking 5 and what's the benefit of Cloaking skill per level: 10% reduced targetting delay, and lets what see what bonus ships all have: no targetting delay from fitting cloaks...I mean I hated the idea of having to train cloaking 5 and this certainly doesn't help one bit.

So basically this loooong skill these ships require is completely useless for them expect for lvl3 which allows them to fit best possible cloaks that can be fitted on these ships. Please reduce the cloaking req to lvl 4 max and add some new skill that isn't almost completely useless as req if needed.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.23 16:21:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 23/10/2007 16:21:10
Cloaking lvl 5 is needed to operate the special "no cloaking delay" ability of the black ops BS....

The bonus of cloaking 5 is enhanced by it.


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