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Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:30:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Zhull
Edited by: Zhull on 23/10/2007 14:27:13
Aren't electronic attack frigs a bit too fast?

Edit:

Also, even with the cap bonus there is no way the keres can hold a pair of dampeners + disruptor.


That is why they call this "Testing" on singularity. once its released, go play with it and post to the appropriate forum down in the tech section. including your fittings and let them know your cap problems

as per speed.. I wish all frigs like the worthless AF had a little more speed so it could, ya know... last more than 1 maybe shots from a stealth bomber.

Stalkman
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:30:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Stalkman on 23/10/2007 14:30:44
As a caldari pilot my one issue is with the widow. It only gets 10% bonus to ECM jam strength for each level of the black ops skill. I understand E-war isnt the sole purpose of the ship, but it'd take about a month and a half of training up black ops to 5 to get the same jam strength I could have with a regular scorpion. It gets a speed while cloaked bonus, making it more in line with the falcon, however the falcon can warp while cloaked.

The missle velocity bonus indicates that this is supposed to be used as a long range support ship like rook and the falcon. The DPS for the cruiser sized covert ECM boats is totally negligible as theyre missle boats primarily used from as far away from the action as possible.

Cruise missles would allow the widow to participate more with DPS, but a much more useful modification to the ship would be to bump the ECM strength bonus up either 15% or 20%, whatever feels balanced around the cloaking capabilities. The rate of fire bonus could be replaced with a 5% reduction to ECM cycle time per level to keep the ship focused on what seems to be its intended role.

Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:34:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Shevar on 23/10/2007 14:41:51
Quote:

The sentinel has an effective range of up to 18km with tech 2 neutralizers and can sustain 3 of them when optimized for capacitor recharge. This makes the Sentinel a serious threat even to battleships.


50 cap/s neuted is just retardly weak compared to the other ECM frigs.

But then again it's amarr so who would ahve thought?

Quote:
When using -90% webifiers, the stasis webifier velocity factor bonus increases the velocity factor penalty up to -99%, at which point a single webifier is as effective as two webifiers mounted on a standard ship. This means that the Paladin can easily hit any ship within web range, once the transversal velocity slows down.


Useless, pulse lasers are balanced on being the longest range short range weapon.

Having an increase in web range would have been more in line with the expectations of that. Or are you finally gonna revamp lasers so they are actually viable compared to blasters/autocannons?

Anyways seems gallente got their set of new pwn ships, the caldari ones look to be good in line with the torp change but amarr got the short end of the stick as usual? If these ships in their current proposed state will hit TQ it will be an utter failure in terms of balance _AGAIN_. This wouldn't be an issue if every class had a diffrent race as pwn ship but quite frankly in almost all cases of all classes (either tech1 or tech2 or whatever role you intend to do with a ship) gallente are either the best choice or the second best choice Confused.

Vaedian GER
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:35:00 - [124]
 

So the 'just black' (TM Oveur) Black-Ops Battleships are really 'just black' and as usefull for covert operations as Stealth Bombers are now, impressive.

*snip*

Teploman
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:36:00 - [125]
 

Kronos = vindi with 8 turret dmg, dualweb, better tank and 3 free high slots = pure sex
Paladin = apoc, which with current bonuses has the same role as kronos, but is worse in every aspect except of the tank (which is similar) = pure fail

also the tractor beam bonus? wtf?

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:40:00 - [126]
 

Hmmm. Not bad in all, but I'm still a bit puzzled on how I'd actually use the Black Ops ships.

Also, the fact that they can't warp cloaked is disappointing, makes them a lot less useful tbh.

...and wtf is an agility bonus doing on the Sin? Couldn't you figure out a more relevant bonus to put there?

R0b1n Ho0d
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:40:00 - [127]
 

Can't help but notice a blurr of the usual faction/racial trend to the bonus of the ships, notably the marauders. I'm all for Amarr/ Caldari mixtures and same for Gallente/Minmatar, but some just seem a little too mishmash to me.

Sgt Blade
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:42:00 - [128]
 

goin to mke eve alot interesting with those new ships

Makmakis
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:42:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Makmakis on 23/10/2007 14:42:43
black ops i love the idea of these but can some on actually confirm what thererole is going to be ??? is it to set up kills or to get intell or to just sit in a system and grief miners/who ever they feel ??, and the coverops jump drive, what thigs will be allaowed to jump though it ??

widow is very nice , although what about caldari pilots who are have only skills in rails ??

excuess dislexic typing please

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:42:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Vaedian GER
So the 'just black' (TM Oveur) Black-Ops Battleships are really 'just black' and as usefull for covert operations as Stealth Bombers are now, impressive.



Yeah, these things would seriously need to be able to fit a covops cloak. A 800m - 1bil "covert" ship that can't actually sneak around seems like an easy way to lose a lot of isk, nothing more.

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:42:00 - [131]
 

do current amarr mission bs fittings even include webs?
i've never bothered with one as i was able to fry most ships at range and have the drones deal with whatever small stuff came through. cant think of any situation where i was thinking "oh if only i had a dual web now".
some sort of damage bonus or maybe web range would help a lot more there.


the missions laser cap bonus isnt really that important with only 4 turrets now though i guess it wouldbe nice if the devs would actually realize that 4 turrets with 100% cap is the same as 8 with 50% instead of writing stuff about the reducing capneed of weapons.


Raldor Marchander
Gallente
Selinir
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:45:00 - [132]
 

I'm disappointed by the drone bays on the Marauders. How are they supposed to deploy for longer periods of time without room for spare drones? I thought the whole idea of introducing bandwidth was to increase the size of drone bays for spare drones or alternate drone types.

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:54:00 - [133]
 

Why does the amarr one get so many drones in comparison to the gallente one? It's ridiculous when coupled with its neuting capability.

As for the black ops, covert cynos are a bad thing all round, imo, but i'll wait to see them in action on sisi before passing judgement. The sin and kronos look to be ridiculously overpowered right from the outset, so situation normal with the gallente, but apart from that, i dont think i can add anything to the discussion. Nice blog and nice work.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:57:00 - [134]
 

Theere is huge unbalance between the Marauders

Gallente one is PERFECT. Can fit all guns and extras.
MAtari is good but no way can fit arties, wtf? Anyone that have ever done missions in matari ships use arties.
Ammar, ok where is the damage? Good PG etc.. but no damage?
Caldari, similar problem to Matar one too low PG.

Damion Zyne
Queens of the Stone Age
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:57:00 - [135]
 

Why not scrap matari at all?

All our special race bonus is freely given to any other race. Web bonus, shieled boost bonus and target painter bonus (not that we ever wanted this bonus anywayVery Happy).

Now you say that this is not true and that we are the only ones to get a speed bonus.... on the Black Ops Phoon with the extremly high mass that is. A ship designed to use guns ... big guns... with crap tracking. Right, thats a great bonus.

The thing I always liked on matari ships is the diversity. Takes some training time, but hey, these ships are fun. Now lets have a look at all the new ships we got so far and we are about to get.

Maelstrom - all guns, all shield
Broadsword - kind of all guns, all shield
Phanter - all guns (T1 hull even had a missiles bonus), ok, give you that, its a gimped armor tank
Vargur - all guns and we are even kind of restricted to AC due to PG, all shield

Thank you ! Rolling Eyes

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:58:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Wrayeth on 23/10/2007 15:34:19
Edited by: Wrayeth on 23/10/2007 14:59:25
By and large I'm impressed with the ships presented. However, there is one (glaring) exception: the widow.

Why, you ask?

Simple: an effective widow, like an effective scorpion, will not be running much of a tank (and will not have the resistances built into the recons). Unfortunately, at the same time its jam bonus is very weak. There's a reason you no longer see scorpions in PvP, rarely see blackbirds, and even see the falcon only on rare occasions. The one exception to the rule of the Caldari EW boats being missing from PvP is the rook, and the reason is simple: it can still jam effectively, unlike the others. Its jam strength bonus is 20% instead of 10%, resulting in a ship with an effective EW tank, unlike the others (whose jamming will break frequently).

Simple fix: increase its jam strength bonus to the same as the rook's: 20%/level.

In other news: OMFG at the panther having the same slot layout as the machariel and also a bonus to velocity. It'll be like a mach without having to spend ridiculous amounts of ISK, not to mention the fact that it'll be able to use the jump portal generator, cloak, and jump drive.

EDIT: Aw...crap. It doesn't have the 7th low after all. Lack of reading comprehension ftw. ugh

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:00:00 - [137]
 

Im months and months away from even hoping to fly a Black Ops BS - but I would agree with many here; they need to be able to warp while cloaked.

This ability would justify what will surely be a mighty price tag.

C.


Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:00:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Raldor Marchander
I'm disappointed by the drone bays on the Marauders. How are they supposed to deploy for longer periods of time without room for spare drones? I thought the whole idea of introducing bandwidth was to increase the size of drone bays for spare drones or alternate drone types.


yes, for "drone" based ships to allow for more versatility. :P

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:04:00 - [139]
 

May as well remove the hi-slots and damage bonuses from the black-ops ships. I doubt in their current state they will ever see combat.

The Marauders look great... at least the Kronos and Golem do.

However the Golem (and even the Raven) is going to pretty much pwnface with the current state of the torpedo "nerf" dealing out similar damage to a blaster fitted Kronos at 30kms. That is just not good.


Also Amarr. Don't Amarr ships already get the cap use bonus to off-set the general power of lasers compared to other turrets? In effect meaning that Amarr ships get a turret bonus but need cap-use bonus to sustain them. The shift to 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus means you get your turret bonus for free, making the +5% cap the icing on the cake.

I'm no expert on Amarr battleships, but if the ship appears broken despite this the problem doesn't lay with the ship but with the weapons system.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:09:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
May as well remove the hi-slots and damage bonuses from the black-ops ships. I doubt in their current state they will ever see combat.



Speak for yourself. I already have plans for redeemer.

Quote:

Also Amarr. Don't Amarr ships already get the cap use bonus to off-set the general power of lasers compared to other turrets? In effect meaning that Amarr ships get a turret bonus but need cap-use bonus to sustain them. The shift to 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus means you get your turret bonus for free, making the +5% cap the icing on the cake.



Another clueless guy. It is EXACTLY same as apoc. Check bonuses on both ships.

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:09:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Elmicker on 23/10/2007 15:10:05
Originally by: Cailais
they need to be able to warp while cloaked


No they don't. That would be called a solopwnmobile.

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
May as well remove the hi-slots and damage bonuses from the black-ops ships. I doubt in their current state they will ever see combat.


lol, speak for yourself. The sin looks excellent.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:11:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Damion Zyne
Why not scrap matari at all?

All our special race bonus is freely given to any other race. Web bonus, shieled boost bonus and target painter bonus (not that we ever wanted this bonus anywayVery Happy).

Now you say that this is not true and that we are the only ones to get a speed bonus.... on the Black Ops Phoon with the extremly high mass that is. A ship designed to use guns ... big guns... with crap tracking. Right, thats a great bonus.

The thing I always liked on matari ships is the diversity. Takes some training time, but hey, these ships are fun. Now lets have a look at all the new ships we got so far and we are about to get.

Maelstrom - all guns, all shield
Broadsword - kind of all guns, all shield
Phanter - all guns (T1 hull even had a missiles bonus), ok, give you that, its a gimped armor tank
Vargur - all guns and we are even kind of restricted to AC due to PG, all shield

Thank you ! Rolling Eyes


This some kind of joke? The new matari ships are awesome.

Best frigate in the game hands down.
A large autocannon ship with a falloff bonus full turrets, and a damage bonus?[60km falloff on barrage anyone?]
6/6/4 rupture?!?!?!
A cloaking battleship with a velocity bonus on the fastest and lightest?

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:16:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.


Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:18:00 - [144]
 

Well I must say these are some awesome bonuses for the new T2 ships, better then I expected. I think everything is very fair and balanced, especially between races. Every ship has its place and will be very popular for both PVE and PVP.

I expect great things from this patch!

(p.s. re-consider the carrier changes!)

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:19:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 23/10/2007 15:19:27
Originally by: Goumindong

This some kind of joke? The new matari ships are awesome.



Exactly. For once, the Minmatar came out the winners in the "new ship toys" category.

The Amarr, however, are left holding the "wtf?" stick.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:20:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

The Amarr, however, are left holding the "wtf?" stick.



After a while you get used to this. You just train gallente ships.

Tahreem
Minmatar
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:21:00 - [147]
 

Looks good i hope when salvaging these wrecks you get more then 1 t2 rig part?

Serenity Black
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:21:00 - [148]
 

The Marauders look great... at least the Kronos and Golem do.

However the Golem (and even the Raven) is going to pretty much pwnface with the current state of the torpedo "nerf" dealing out similar damage to a blaster fitted Kronos at 30kms. That is just not good.



Pls explain how can a golem with 8 effektive lauchers (it donīt get a damage bonus) and only 75m3 dronebay can reach the damage of a cronos? it wonīt do more damage than a normal raven, except it can paint better

Delichon
Armored Saints
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:23:00 - [149]
 

I really think Kronos would be the new number 1 ship in the "SOLOPWNMOBILE" category.

Golem with current stats is a waste :( You are better of with CNR any time of the day.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.23 15:24:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Damion Zyne
Why not scrap matari at all?

All our special race bonus is freely given to any other race. Web bonus, shieled boost bonus and target painter bonus (not that we ever wanted this bonus anywayVery Happy).

Now you say that this is not true and that we are the only ones to get a speed bonus.... on the Black Ops Phoon with the extremly high mass that is. A ship designed to use guns ... big guns... with crap tracking. Right, thats a great bonus.

The thing I always liked on matari ships is the diversity. Takes some training time, but hey, these ships are fun. Now lets have a look at all the new ships we got so far and we are about to get.

Maelstrom - all guns, all shield
Broadsword - kind of all guns, all shield
Phanter - all guns (T1 hull even had a missiles bonus), ok, give you that, its a gimped armor tank
Vargur - all guns and we are even kind of restricted to AC due to PG, all shield

Thank you ! Rolling Eyes


This some kind of joke? The new matari ships are awesome.

Best frigate in the game hands down.
A large autocannon ship with a falloff bonus full turrets, and a damage bonus?[60km falloff on barrage anyone?]
6/6/4 rupture?!?!?!
A cloaking battleship with a velocity bonus on the fastest and lightest?


It would be awesome if it wad the PG to fit 4 Arties with 1 PG module. It needs at LEAST 9K PG.


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