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The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:00:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Alyxa Mahan
Originally by: The Economist
Comparing the 4 marauders there seems to be something missing; namely the Vargur's EW bonus.

Would you prefer a target painter bonus to that 50% falloff bonus, which nearly gives ACs the "superior" range of pulses?



Please read the rest of what I wrote.

My concern is more that the web and painter bonuses are extras on top of those bonuses needed for the ships to use their weapons effectively [comparably to t1 bs] whereas the min falloff bonus, which takes the place of their bonus bonus, is in fact a standard min bonus which is needed for them to properly use their turrets, as is tracking and a double dmg bonus.

Vanessa Vale
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:01:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Dakisha

PLEASE confirm this is the case - this is the answer I'd been waiting on as a counter to the bloody nano gangs we see on a daily basis.

I want a module that instantly turns armor and shield to 0. Make it so it fits on cruisers.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:01:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Zhull
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

and nice way to help amarr out with their cap :D



Um, no. Read up


I trade you your "useless cap bonus" for the Sin's agility bonus.


You fail at reading. Check paladin bonus and read up. Because that was "supposed" to help amarr cap problems as ppl mistook it previously. Redeemer is just normal geddon with 1 less turret so nothing abt it here.

Il Reverendo
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:04:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Dakisha
Quote:
When activated the warp disruption field generator prevents remote assistance, increases the signature radius of the ship and reduces the effectiveness of afterburners and microwarpdrives. The agility is however effectively increased: the mass of the ship and the thrust of afterburners and microwarpdrives is significantly decreased (the thrust reduction cancels out the mass reductions in terms of speed boost).


When I orig saw the stats for this module, I had assumed it was an area effect - that is to say you'd given us a mobile bubble that also gave a form of webbing, target painting and mass increasing.

PLEASE confirm this is the case - this is the answer I'd been waiting on as a counter to the bloody nano gangs we see on a daily basis.


The passage you quoted confirms that it's not the case. These are things that happen to the heavy dictor when it activates the module.

Louis DelaBlanche
An Outlying Variable
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:05:00 - [95]
 

OMG marauders look so awsome. Golem + faction torps + painter = sexy time Very Happy

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:05:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Zhull
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

and nice way to help amarr out with their cap :D



Um, no. Read up


I trade you your "useless cap bonus" for the Sin's agility bonus.


You fail at reading. Check paladin bonus and read up. Because that was "supposed" to help amarr cap problems as ppl mistook it previously. Redeemer is just normal geddon with 1 less turret so nothing abt it here.


Fixing the Crapocalipse (i like the term) wont't solve Amarr problems. You need to fix the laser's tracking / damage /cap use. Fixing one ship won't solve Amarr's problems.

In fact if the torpedo changes go trough Blasters will also need to be balanced.

Oron
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:05:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Redeemer is just normal geddon with 1 less turret so nothing abt it here.

So a normal geddon has jump drives, a portal generator, and +25% speed while cloaked? Do we play the same game?

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:06:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Garrakh
In fact if the torpedo changes go trough Blasters will also need to be balanced.


How so?

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:07:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Oron
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Redeemer is just normal geddon with 1 less turret so nothing abt it here.

So a normal geddon has jump drives, a portal generator, and +25% speed while cloaked? Do we play the same game?


Because jump portal, drive and cloked velocity helps me kill target faster?
Read up, i already commented on redeemer. Its "ok". Just a geddon with some bonuses, thats all. Nothing "magic" or "wtf whats is this bonus".

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:09:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Feng Schui
what the ****

so the EW amarr frig can run 3 neuts, w/o using cap boosters, but the pilgrim cannot Evil or Very Mad


Oh, you missed the little detail "If optimized for cap recharge".

It can sustain 3 neuts. IF you fit 2 CCC rigs, 3 CPR2 and 1 CR2 and NO MWD. And have maxed cap, ship and neut skills.

Yes, "a big danger to BS" my shiny metal ass. 5 light or 5 med drones will eat it alive with such a config.

Paddlefoot Aeon
SiN. Corp
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:09:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Paddlefoot Aeon on 23/10/2007 14:11:40

NPC jamming is chance-based, not a function of signal strength. Fitting ECCM will be useless to ratting ships in Gurista space.


I lived and ratting on Guristas for well over 1 year, and I can tell you that fitting ECCM in the lows has never worked on preventing jamming of my ratter by the rats.


Nargilos
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:09:00 - [102]
 

Those black op ships are going to be so awesome. Having a jump drive that can only be detected and locked onto by other black ops ships!! Can you say zomg!!?

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:09:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Garrakh on 23/10/2007 14:10:32
Originally by: The Economist
Originally by: Garrakh
In fact if the torpedo changes go trough Blasters will also need to be balanced.


How so?



This is not the right thread to discuss it but a Phoon or Raven with the new launchers can do more or less the same damage than a Megathron at short range and significantly more damage at longer ranges. Just get Naughty boy's spreadsheet and check the numbers. Edit: While keeping a simmilar or better tank.

Scimon Tinker
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:11:00 - [104]
 

hey hey

just a couple of Q's

1.) Skill Reqs PLEASE :)
2.) New warp mod prevents jumping ? does it also have an agression flag linked to it ?
3.) Are these new toys 0.0/low sec/high sec ?
4.) Can you cloak and pop a cloaked portal ?
5.) ETA on SISI seeding/skill donating etc PLEASE :)

Thanks

Crevek
Caldari
Shai-Hulud Space Concern
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:13:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Crevek on 23/10/2007 14:28:27
Edited by: Crevek on 23/10/2007 14:27:57
Here's what I think after reading the devblog:

EAS: Love these and they are pretty attainable even for new players which is a very nice bonus.

The amarr one seems to be the weakest one by far. I mean how much difference are you gonna make with frigate sized nos´es and neuts gonna do plus the tracking disruptor bonus doesn't really compare to bonuses like webbing range, scrambling range, etc. Basically other ships have bonuses that are effective against any ship size but the amarr nos/neut is only gonna be effective against small ships and the tracking disruptor only helps against ship that actually need tracking.

Caldari one seems fine and as usual gallente and minmatar ones are the ones blessed with best bonuses.

HI: Haven't really used interdictors before so this ain't really my area. At least they are different from current interdictors and not just have bigger hull. The new primary :p

BO: I like the idea dunno how this will work in practice though. Will at least take months to see since the hefty skill requirements. Maybe consider letting them warp while cloaked ?

Marauders: Sexy don't know if bs sized hac's are good or bad but they definetly are sexy Wink I really like the idea of having 100% dmg bonus as it allows for creative use of the remaining hislots making this ship fairly flexible. The 10 targets bonus seems pretty much useless. More room for cap boosters is definetly nice. Also I like the fact that they have specific weakness of having low sensor strength.

Paladin: I guess the idea is the use this as very close range heavy dps ship. TBH I don't know enough about bs sized pulses to say more than that...but then again this ship only has one bonus to it's turrets so I'm not really seeing this beat Kronos in this regard at least npt to mention blasters > pulses in these ranges. Edit: changing the web bonus to 10% range would be much more fitting for this ship

Kronos: I love this ship. Can't wait to fit some neutrons on this baby :D

Frater Perdurabo
Amarr
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
MERCURY RISING.
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:17:00 - [106]
 

Constructive non-rant about the new Amarr marauder, the Paladin:

Excluding the Paladin, all the marauders will recieve a 100% dmg bonus to 4 weapon turrets, and then recieve a more 'standard' dmg bonus (5% dmg/rof per lvl) This increases their dmg a fair bit over the T1 variants. effectively they have 8 turrets + 25% rof/dmg. None of the t1 hulls of these ships i might add, actually have 8 hislot weapon systems that recieve bonuses, raven gets 6 launcher slots with bonuses, mega gets 7 turrets with bonuses and tempest gets 6 turrets with bonuses.

The paladin infact recieves no greater bonus to its turrets than a standard Apoc, both have an effective 8 turrets, but the paladin loses out on the -10% cap reduction bonus, meaning cap use for lasers on the paladin will be... well what will it be? Im assuming exactly the same as the Apoc, half the guns, but no 50% cap use reduction. so same cap use, same dmg.

Just a thought to tag on the end as well, whats considered to be the worst BS in the game? I think most people would plump for the Apoc. Outclassed in all its alleged roles by the other 2 Amarr BS.

So please, someone, anyone, please tell me how these ships were/are balanced within the class, or show me some reasoning on how its not actually worse than the other 3.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:17:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: The Economist on 23/10/2007 15:33:22
Edited by: The Economist on 23/10/2007 14:22:07
Something I'd forgotten:

Please change how tractor beams and wrecks work, so that we can tractor hostile wrecks.

PLEASE...

...With a can of beer on top.

Edit: Just noticed maraduer sensor strengths.....is it really your intention that for these billion isk ships to be used in pvp without being shut down with no more difficulty than a cruiser, they all need to waste a mid on eccm?

Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:17:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Donathan Slade on 23/10/2007 14:16:59
The devblog said......

Originally by: CCP Fendahl
Kronos

* Hull: Megathron / Duvolle Labs
* Slots: 7/4/7, 4 turrets
* Fitting: 550tf, 12,000mw
* Drones: 125Mbit/s bandwidth, 125m3 dronebay
* Sensors: 13pt magnetometric, 10 target locks
* Propulsion: 135m/s, 102,500,000kg
* Tech II resistance bonus: 25% kinetic, 12.5% thermal
* Cargo: 1275m3

Bonuses

* 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage per Gallente BS level
* 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Gallente BS level
* 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level
* 7.5% bonus to large hybrid turret tracking per Marauder level
* Role bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid turret damage
* Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams


To the Dev: Why are these bonuses reversed? The 7.5% tracking is the BS base for the Mega. To go in line with all other T2 ships, why was this bonus moved to Marauder instead of the 2% warp disruptor? This question also applies to the Paladin.

Was this a typo or just an error in the creation of T2 Marauders? Or was this 100% intentional to take the 7.5% tracking bonus and then throw it to marauder and "force" somebody to use a web (which is nice mind you immediately). but, some things are out or range and you would think that all new t2 bonuses would be earned to go along with all the other T2 standards.

Can we please have clarification on this?

Zhull
Amarr
Patagonia Holdings
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:19:00 - [109]
 

I don't fly Amarr battleships but aren't pulse lasers supposed to be mid range weapons? If so, why not give the paladin a bonus to web range?

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:20:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Zhull
I don't fly Amarr battleships but aren't pulse lasers supposed to be mid range weapons? If so, why not give the paladin a bonus to web range?


Because it would be useful bonus? ;p

Nick Marsh
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:21:00 - [111]
 

Thank you greatly for ****ing another amarr ship Bonusses ccp ughSad
Well I'll be retraining for a diffrent race marauder if u need me...

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:22:00 - [112]
 

Am I the only one that found the Sentinel - Drones: 20Mbit/s bandwidth, 60m3 drone bay a bit large?

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:22:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Garrakh on 23/10/2007 14:23:04
The Sin is nice as it is but i would like to see the agility bonus changed to something more usefull. Any ideas?

+ Sensor Dampener strengh? Rolling Eyes

Synseer
Excrutiating Dirge
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:24:00 - [114]
 

Once again amarr gets the shaft....I was hoping the new apoc would actually reflect the supposed "role change" that CCP announced half a year ago.

Zhull
Amarr
Patagonia Holdings
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:24:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Zhull on 23/10/2007 14:27:13
Aren't electronic attack frigs a bit too fast?

Edit:

Also, even with the cap bonus there is no way the keres can hold a pair of dampeners + disruptor.

Synseer
Excrutiating Dirge
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:26:00 - [116]
 

besides which, the web bonus is pretty useless in pvp as youll have to find a completely ******ed frig pilot to close within 10km web range. Esp. since ceptors and the gallente EAS is gonna have disruptor ranges of 30km++.

Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:28:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Hamfast
Am I the only one that found the Sentinel - Drones: 20Mbit/s bandwidth, 60m3 drone bay a bit large?


Yeah... why would the Amarr get that and the Gallente get the 5Mbit/s and 10m3 drone bay?

Considering ya know, "Gallente" is the drone race and all....

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:28:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Synseer
besides which, the web bonus is pretty useless in pvp as youll have to find a completely ******ed frig pilot to close within 10km web range. Esp. since ceptors and the gallente EAS is gonna have disruptor ranges of 30km++.


Yep. Also add free slots which WILL mount at least 1 heavy neut + small drones... Even w/o web bonus frig pilot under 10k will be toast.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:29:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Donathan Slade
Originally by: Hamfast
Am I the only one that found the Sentinel - Drones: 20Mbit/s bandwidth, 60m3 drone bay a bit large?


Yeah... why would the Amarr get that and the Gallente get the 5Mbit/s and 10m3 drone bay?

Considering ya know, "Gallente" is the drone race and all....


Sentinel is like mini-curse
Gall one is like mini-lachesis

Thats why sentinel has more dronage

Kyn D'Trell
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.23 14:29:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:54:55
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:53:11
Edited by: Kyn D''Trell on 23/10/2007 14:40:09
Can we the please get a answer from a dev on the black ops cloaking question?

ATM it looks like they cant use the covert ops cloaking device, someone else already comented on how this would be a ineffective ship like bombers if so.. and i have to agree, the cost of the ship isnt worth putting it at risk warping it into a gate camp/station camp then cloaking and hoping you can move fast enough before some uber fast inty breaks your cloak.. and tbh im gunne be a little PO'd i wasted a few months training for it when it cant be used effectivly. (Yes the jump drive is a nice touch)

I ghost fleet alot and pretty much any ghost fleet ive heard of, is living deep in hostile held systems and more often then not totally out gunned, the ability to warp in and out, to be able to move to where a viable target is, is just plain needed and outwieghs any cloaked speed bonus (its a battleship, cmon, your never gunna get close to a target before it warps out due to boredom).

I play EVE to pvp, not to farm isk. With the cost of these ships going to be as high as everyone is saying they will be, they just wont be worth it without being able to warp into a hostile situation and get set up for the kill(s) because just like bombers, youll warp in and cloak, then like bombers youll try to move away from the spot to get safe.. and then the nano-frigs/cruisers with drones being dragged behind it will decloak you, at least bombers have a slightly better chance of getting out of range first.

I've waited 2+ years for T2 bs's, please dont let me (and the others who have waited forever for t2 bs's) down.

PS. anychances of getting gun slots on widow? insta dmg ftw Smile
PSS. what happened to t2 frieghters?Sad


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