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SpaceTrucker 3000
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:21:00 - [61]
 

Wow niiice stuff here. It seems like I've been waiting for this years.


Originally by: Goumindong
A quick question,

Are you guys on drugs?

This is constructive. Something must be going on that is altering your perception of what is and isnt reality in order to suggest these changes.

No damage bonus on the paladin? Its a goddamned ****ing apoc with a tracking bonus and an extra mitank bonus and a double web, whop-de-****ing do! And the minnie ship is a maelstrom with a falloff bonus, Falloff?! Of all the things you could have thought to give a ship you choose the one that makes it pretty much do more damage at all ranges than the paladin will at? The Gallente get a Megathron with 8 turrets and an effective double web? You even have the audacity in your blog to say that capacitor use is reduced by half when the ship doesnt get a cap use bonus and is so using lasers at the standard 8 turret bonused rate? The golem is saved because at least the Raven does decent DPS, and the ship has a fantastic slot layout with semi-handy bonuses.

I mean you say you arent trying to create battleship HACs, but then you go right ahead and ****ing create battleship HACs! Except for one, that just blows, but i guess that fits right in with the Zealot. Even the blackops ships are like that! At least the new Geddon looks half decent compared to the others[if only for the absolutly ridiculous 17,000 powergrid even though it loses a med/low slot compared to the new uber scorp and uber dominix. Speaking of which, why do the sin and the widow get more mid/low slots than everyone else? And the Minmitar get an almost useless high slot with no launcher to go along with it?

Then you have the broadsword, onyx, and Phobos, I.E. ships that dont blow ass. They dont do a lot of damage, but at least they can do cruiser levels of damage. The devoter does less damage than an Omen, which does less damage than a MOA!

And this isnt even factoring the one frigate. One frigate to rule them, One frigate to find them, one frigate to, in the darkness of space web them from 20km because oh holy god what were you thinking?

Not saying the other frigates arent good[The Gallente one certianly is, easily second best], but the minnie one? Yea, its ****ing ridiculous, 391m/s, 4 meds, 3 lows, 20km web range?


Calm down.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:24:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Feng Schui
what the ****

so the EW amarr frig can run 3 neuts, w/o using cap boosters, but the pilgrim cannot Evil or Very Mad

very, very, poor form.

other than that, cool.


/Signed - please fix the pilgrim!!!!

C.


Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:28:00 - [63]
 

What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.

Remarka
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:31:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Remarka on 23/10/2007 13:34:38
Can we look at Widow again? 161.000.000 kg... why does that ship need that 25% cloaked speed bonus? It take forever to reach even base 150 (with skills). Can we somwhow switch it for very useful ECM optimal bonus? Or some other bonus? It's ECM platform... for it's final cost and "Always Primary" role, it desperatly needs range, not damage or speed.

Apertotes
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:32:00 - [65]
 

i foresee the vargur contesting the CNR for the "best mission ship" prize.

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:33:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.



FO bonus + Web bonus + gimped grid = Autocannons

Oratu
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:33:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.

This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.



Still does not addrtess the defender issue THO last time i checked defenders dont kill torps so i am good

Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:33:00 - [68]
 

cap need bonus on the marauder would be niceExclamation

as it stands the cap use is the same as on he apoc now, so no real 'bonus' from 4 turrets there.

in comparison the vargur and Kronos seem overpowered!
Vargur:
tracking bonus
rof bonus
HUGE fall off/range bonus

Kronos:
dmg bonus
tracking bonus

maybe the Paladin would be better off with dmg bonus instead of cap bonus.
ROF would make the cap issue even worse and i'm not even sure if you can effectively tank while firing with the dmg bonus instead of the cap bonus as there are only 2 rig slots available (i guess).

please look into that again and keep in mind that the paladin will need to use beams to have some range.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:36:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: The Economist on 23/10/2007 13:52:24
Edited by: The Economist on 23/10/2007 13:48:00
Marauders:

"Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams"

Seriously?
Laughing

Comparing the 4 marauders there seems to be something missing; namely the Vargur's EW bonus. Amarr and Gallente get one to web strength (awesome), Caldari get one to target painting (awesome in the context of cruise and torps), Minmatar get one to...oh wait, they don't get one. Flying minmatar a lot I know they require more turret bonuses than most to get to the same level (i.e. pest's double dmg bonus) and why it probably doesn't have that ew bonus as a result. However as someone who will be able to fly pretty much all races of these ships I'm as a result (for pvp, for pve, well I might if I planned to use them for it) leaning away from the Vargur solely because of the ew advantages the others get. Not really complaining, and I think I understand the reasoning though.

Black Ops

"The resource consumption on the Black Ops jump drives and the Covert Jump Portal Generator is very high, so jump fuel logistics are a concern."

As it should be.

However; I'm rather concerned about the cargo sizes when you factor in the minimal isotopes/stront/ammo/cap boosters needed for one operation at the minimum distance; as detailed with figures in a thread on the game development forum.

Black Ops Bonuses

Each ship gets three unique bonuses.

However it seems to me that the current bonuses aren't very balanced. [maybe they are, and I just don't understand, in which case, by all means explain]

Amarr:
Standard cap use reduction - fine.
Rof - fine.
Tracking - fine.....I guess...

Caldari:
Rof - fine.
Missile Velocity - fine.
ECM Strength - Sweet.

Gallente:
Dmg - fine.
Drone Bonus - fine [it's a t2 domi after all]
Agility - wtf? Am I imagining things or have you just given us a replacement to the much-mourned nanodomi? [useless otherwise]

Minmatar:
Dmg - fine.[we all know minmatar need things like double dmg bonuses, although they also tend to need tracking bonuses to be able to actually hit..well...anything]
Dmg - fine.
Velocity - eeerm? I know it's in keeping with minmatar, and in that respect great. But..what's your reasoning behind this, either it's a useless bonus, or you're intentionally giving us a new nanophoon [not that i'm complaining, I love nanophoons and mourn mine every day]

When you compare the ship bonuses they seem to get 2 standard ones which are pretty much racially needed, then a third bonus bonus. These third bonuses seem a bit odd to me, in that the caldari bonus seems infinitely better than all the others, which seem either a little dull but ok [amarr] or just plain wierd [gallente/minmatar].

Just wondering what the reasoning is behind the Black Ops bonuses; what's your vision for these ships and how do the bonuses apply to said vision?

Keres
Looks awesome, I'll be getting one.

However....I'm a little concerned about the effect of both the keres and the inty boost combined on pvp. It seems to me that every noob and his brother will be, when it comes to tackling, be flying frigs to which bs have no counters left. With the scram range bonuses anyone with minimal skills and minimal isk will be able to perma-tackle bs outside nos/neut/web/anything range. Currently everyone could do this, but in practice most don't, since it involves an investment in either a faction warp disruptor on a paper-thin ship or or having a high skilled command pilot in gang [or of course overheating]. The new and changed ships make that no longer a necessity....for 15mil or so I'll be able to go buy a fast frig with a domination warp disruptor built in for free.

Has this been given thought? Do you guys think it's a desirable outcome?

Heavy Dictors

I like what you're aiming at. Just one question....sig boost maybe one penalty too far? I fear it'll mean these ships get insta-popped the second they turn the warp disruption bubble on.

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:42:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Apertotes
i foresee the vargur contesting the CNR for the "best mission ship" prize.


Only if you could fit arties. With autocannons you will spend a lot of time getting in range. Same for Kronos.

PS. Feo

Stork DK
Minmatar
Risky eXplosion
Death or Glory
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:43:00 - [71]
 

I am so gonna get EAS to lvl 5!!

What are the ranks of these new skills?

Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:44:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Garrakh
Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.



FO bonus + Web bonus + gimped grid = Autocannons


Indeed, but Marauders were touted as versatile ships. Basically not allowing a ship to fit half it's gun types isn't that at all.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:47:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Serenity Black
i cannot see who will use a Golem for missions:
- it will be more expensive than a cnr
- it has less firepower than a cnr
- the boni (tp, expl vel.) are only usefull if using torps, but with coming changes
nobody will use torps in missions anymore
- can tank all misions already so no additional mid slot needed
- defender missile will reduce effective damage of golem drastically

so please explain the use of that ship!
also explain that powerhouse Kronos


It looks like whoever designed the golem didnt know about the possible torp change. As this ship looks pretty good with the current torps. Defender missiles are not an issue when using torps.


Zhull
Amarr
Patagonia Holdings
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:47:00 - [74]
 

The Sin is not going to be a good nanoship. It currently has (in Sisi) a mass of 147M kg. That is a 40% increase over the dominix (105M kg).

Could a dev please elaborate on the reasoning behind the Sin's agility bonus? Or maybe someone can gess?

Apertotes
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:47:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Apertotes on 23/10/2007 13:48:03
Originally by: Garrakh
Originally by: Apertotes
i foresee the vargur contesting the CNR for the "best mission ship" prize.


Only if you could fit arties. With autocannons you will spend a lot of time getting in range. Same for Kronos.

PS. Feo


not really. take a look at the 10% bonus to falloff-----> extreme AC range.

of course, cant stay 200 km apart like raven, but i think the range will be more than enough to run missions very easily.

ps: feo tu

Ocularis
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:48:00 - [76]
 

Quote:
Equipped with a jump drive, they can jump short distances past enemy blockades.


Any indication of how short "short" is? On the same scale as a Titan short or much shorter?

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:49:00 - [77]
 

Please give the Helios another high. And unlike your previous dev blog, this will work out, it gives us more tactics to work with, something we've not had in a long time. Thank you.

Oron
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:49:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Oron on 23/10/2007 14:00:55
Originally by: Frug
Once again it appears the status quo is maintained with amarr getting shafted, gallente getting most of the love, and minmatar a close second.

hey you forgot about the caldari's! :(

I really like the "No targeting delay when using cloaking devices"-Bonus of the Black-Ops, pls keep it! Thats pretty cool in combination with EW.

Covert Jump Portals for already Covert Ships are pretty - well, pointless.

What ship should tackel in such a Black Op Gang? The paper-thin Covert-op or the stay-out-of-close-range steath bomber/force recon? I would really advice to consider to also allow to jup the new EW-Frigs and Combat Recons or Command Ships.

Can Black Ops use the Covert Op Cloaking Device, pls? The Black Ops also seem to me a little bit to heavy, prolly resulting in terrible align/warping times. Would be nice if you take a look at this, cause align time is quite important for a "jam & run if primary" type of ship.

Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:49:00 - [79]
 

I quote "range from warping or jumping (including the heavy interdictor itself)"

I assume you are talking about carrier jumping and not Stargate "jump" correct?

Zhull
Amarr
Patagonia Holdings
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:50:00 - [80]
 

I foresee a lot of mission runners buying Golems and fitting them with the new & improved torpedoes, only to dye misserably to pirates.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:50:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Max Teranous
Originally by: Garrakh
Originally by: Max Teranous
What's the reasoning behind the lack of grid on the T2 tempest? Currently with those published stats, a Vargur needs to use 2 x RCU II just to fit 4 x 1400mm II howie's, and still has zero grid for any sort of tank. However a Kronos can fit 4 x 425mm II rails and still have over 5,000 grid left for a nice tank fit.



FO bonus + Web bonus + gimped grid = Autocannons


Indeed, but Marauders were touted as versatile ships. Basically not allowing a ship to fit half it's gun types isn't that at all.



Turns out versatile long-range ships capable of extended operation in hostile territory etc etc 'insert more bombast here'; actually tanslates to tank, big cargo hold and tractor beam bonus [lol]

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:51:00 - [82]
 

new stuff new stuff new stuff new stuff!!!!!

woooooot!!!!!!

and nice way to help amarr out with their cap :D

i cant wait to do battleship 5 now Very Happy

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:52:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

and nice way to help amarr out with their cap :D



Um, no. Read up

Dakisha
The NomNomNom
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:53:00 - [84]
 

Quote:
When activated the warp disruption field generator prevents remote assistance, increases the signature radius of the ship and reduces the effectiveness of afterburners and microwarpdrives. The agility is however effectively increased: the mass of the ship and the thrust of afterburners and microwarpdrives is significantly decreased (the thrust reduction cancels out the mass reductions in terms of speed boost).


When I orig saw the stats for this module, I had assumed it was an area effect - that is to say you'd given us a mobile bubble that also gave a form of webbing, target painting and mass increasing.

PLEASE confirm this is the case - this is the answer I'd been waiting on as a counter to the bloody nano gangs we see on a daily basis.

Alyxa Mahan
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:55:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: The Economist
Comparing the 4 marauders there seems to be something missing; namely the Vargur's EW bonus.

Would you prefer a target painter bonus to that 50% falloff bonus, which nearly gives ACs the "superior" range of pulses?

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:56:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Exlegion on 23/10/2007 14:01:44
Originally by: Kerfira
On-topic: However, since we have Devs reading this thread. How about the Golem and Defender missiles????

Originally by: Kaakoa
How about defender missiles? Will anything be done to npc's spamming them like no tomorrow? I see 4 missile launchers having hard time to hit npc's with multiple defender launchers. Confused

Originally by: Oratu
Still does not addrtess the defender issue THO last time i checked defenders dont kill torps so i am good

and
Originally by: Esmenet
It looks like whoever designed the golem didnt know about the possible torp change. As this ship looks pretty good with the current torps. Defender missiles are not an issue when using torps.


Support this thread.


Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:57:00 - [87]
 

Okies maybe some dev will respond:

HEAVY DICTOR:
1. does its field drag enemies from warp (like normal bubbles)?
2. does it have infinite str. or 1 point only (so wcs saves your lifes)?
3. does it cause aggro on "hit" target?
4. does it stop enemy MWD/AB too or only heavy dictor?
5. can it be used in LOWSEC?
6. is it correct that ship cant be remote repped while using bubble?
7. uh... whats the point of using it over normal dictor (which has much higher survivalability thx to speed)? (prolly some of above will respond to this question)

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:58:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
The majority of mission runners are Caldari trained and will not change to the Golem. Firing 4 missiles of which 2, 3 or even all 4 will be shot down by defender missiles makes for less DPS than a BC (probably even less than a Caracal).

Don't get me wrong, I will be giving the Golem a serious look, I currently use a Drake/Raven to run missions. The problem with defender missiles is a problem which came about from the changes to missiles (defenders are broken when compared to tracking disruptors).
Someone is bound to test the DPS of each Marauder.

Originally by: Trojanman190

It just massively boosts the need for support ships. Also, I envision these ships as being the first ships that new players work towards for pvp. Extremely cheap and extremely dangerous. Battleships are kinda getting roughed up, but at least you get insurance on them right?

Insurance or not. Two frigates downing a battleship is just unbalanced.

Originally by: Trojanman190
Ill agree, the ecm issue is lame, makes these ships useless for fighting the guristas. But think about ratters. I think this ship is the new secret best friend to a ratter. That tractor beam bonus is sweet, and the tracking and range bonuses mean you can use high damage ammo at a much longer range. The extra high slots mean you will certainly have a cloak in there, you might even be able to fit a stab [its ratting, there is nothing wrong with this]. Sure, mission runners will dig this, but ratters will like it too. And as I said, these ships will FAIL against guristas.

Yup, you reinforce my point. These ships, with their tractor beam bonus, slightly higher racial resists, damage bonuses, and ability to fit more tank/assistance modules; is just a boost to mission runners.

Zhull
Amarr
Patagonia Holdings
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:59:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

and nice way to help amarr out with their cap :D



Um, no. Read up


I trade you your "useless cap bonus" for the Sin's agility bonus.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:59:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 23/10/2007 13:59:24
I am asking this (not making a statement of fact because I do not know):

Would the new Crapocalypse (aka Paladin) make a good Heavy Neut ship? I am not seeing what its cap is in the stats but with the bonus presumably it will be hefty and likely bigger than others in the class. Given that three hi slots are open and with a (presumably) monster cap will it have a role here? Because if it can't even fill that role it truly is pure crap.


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