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maarud
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:37:00 - [31]
 

Sin screams nano me, bad, bad, bad.

Any idea when this will all be on SISI?

Brittannia
Gallente
Orion Ore International
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:37:00 - [32]
 

What respectable Gallente runs missions with a mega over a domi?

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:42:00 - [33]
 

Ok my point of view:

EWar frigs:
nice

Dictors:
umm... wtf? Whats the point of immobile bubble that can be easily destroyed (HACs arent hard to kill, seriously) versus immobile bubble that can be killed ONLY by smarties, and dictor can survive much longer? Ah - Devoter = fail (no, its only test stats, ccp will change em... YEAH SURE)

Blackops BS:
nice, i like geddon but price tag is... ouch

Marauder:
lol
sorry but amarr got t2 apoc which still tanks and ganks like... apoc. Hint: apoc with t2 dual rep can tank all missions, it doesnt need uber-faction stuff or more rep. Hint2: apoc has crap damage... nothing changes here. Guess why abaddon is still better.

As for raven (golem):
8 effective launchers (like raven) but 4 torps n space not 6. now lets talk abt NPC defender spam. So... 2 missiles reach target instead of 4 from raven? ;p Still with lower rof?

Barry Cuda
Kings of Kill
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:45:00 - [34]
 

Rather than using warp disrupt probes, the heavy interdictors use a module, the Warp Disruption Field Generator, which prevents all ships within its range from warping or jumping (including the heavy interdictor itself).

Is this jumping out of system through a gate or capitals jumping out through a cyno? They mention the heavy dictor can't jump either, but that may just be from aggression. The wording makes it sound like gate jumping though.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:45:00 - [35]
 

A quick question,

Are you guys on drugs?

This is constructive. Something must be going on that is altering your perception of what is and isnt reality in order to suggest these changes.

No damage bonus on the paladin? Its a goddamned ****ing apoc with a tracking bonus and an extra mitank bonus and a double web, whop-de-****ing do! And the minnie ship is a maelstrom with a falloff bonus, Falloff?! Of all the things you could have thought to give a ship you choose the one that makes it pretty much do more damage at all ranges than the paladin will at? The Gallente get a Megathron with 8 turrets and an effective double web? You even have the audacity in your blog to say that capacitor use is reduced by half when the ship doesnt get a cap use bonus and is so using lasers at the standard 8 turret bonused rate? The golem is saved because at least the Raven does decent DPS, and the ship has a fantastic slot layout with semi-handy bonuses.

I mean you say you arent trying to create battleship HACs, but then you go right ahead and ****ing create battleship HACs! Except for one, that just blows, but i guess that fits right in with the Zealot. Even the blackops ships are like that! At least the new Geddon looks half decent compared to the others[if only for the absolutly ridiculous 17,000 powergrid even though it loses a med/low slot compared to the new uber scorp and uber dominix. Speaking of which, why do the sin and the widow get more mid/low slots than everyone else? And the Minmitar get an almost useless high slot with no launcher to go along with it?

Then you have the broadsword, onyx, and Phobos, I.E. ships that dont blow ass. They dont do a lot of damage, but at least they can do cruiser levels of damage. The devoter does less damage than an Omen, which does less damage than a MOA!

And this isnt even factoring the one frigate. One frigate to rule them, One frigate to find them, one frigate to, in the darkness of space web them from 20km because oh holy god what were you thinking?

Not saying the other frigates arent good[The Gallente one certianly is, easily second best], but the minnie one? Yea, its ****ing ridiculous, 391m/s, 4 meds, 3 lows, 20km web range?

Izo Azlion
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:47:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Trojanman190
Edited by: Trojanman190 on 23/10/2007 12:34:17
Originally by: FireFoxx80

Electronic Attack Ships
Why not force people to use Force/Combat Recons? It seems that a Sentinel or Kitsune, combined with an AF could happily take down a lone battleship. Surely this just unbalances BattleShips more?



It just massively boosts the need for support ships. Also, I envision these ships as being the first ships that new players work towards for pvp. Extremely cheap and extremely dangerous. Battleships are kinda getting roughed up, but at least you get insurance on them right?

Originally by: FireFoxx80

Marauders
Simply, WTF?! This simply seems to be a means of appeasing the mission runners of Eve. 100% bonus to tractor beam, increased damage, and increased resists. You might as well up mission bounties and have all level5 agents require a standing of 1.0 whilst you're at it.
If these ships were paper-thin, over-gunned, pew-pew boats; I'd not have minded. But this ECM weakness seems to only exist in order to give the gimped ECM ships something to attack.


Ill agree, the ecm issue is lame, makes these ships useless for fighting the guristas. But think about ratters. I think this ship is the new secret best friend to a ratter. That tractor beam bonus is sweet, and the tracking and range bonuses mean you can use high damage ammo at a much longer range. The extra high slots mean you will certainly have a cloak in there, you might even be able to fit a stab [its ratting, there is nothing wrong with this]. Sure, mission runners will dig this, but ratters will like it too. And as I said, these ships will FAIL against guristas.


You've essentially just decribed a ship designed to fail. Cloaking and stbabed up mission running ship.

Excellent.

Reroll, bitte schoen.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:49:00 - [37]
 

I have as hort question.. are black op ships able to fly in empire? and are they able to use there portal in empire?

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:50:00 - [38]
 

does npc ecm work the same as pvp ecm anyway?
thought it was just a flat chance to jamm depending on the npc.


Meditril
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:52:00 - [39]
 

Do I see it right? BlackOp's can't use Covert Ops Cloaking device? So they can't warp cloaked? Meh... that's disappointing.

Give them the ability to warp cloaked, otherwise you have similar effects like with the StealthBombers: Nice ship in theory but not really useful in practice.

FawKa
Gallente
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:53:00 - [40]
 

Found this on forum wich really makes my point:

Originally by: Xequecal
The Kronos with 3x faction magstab and a neutron fit does 1800 DPS. 1800 DPS. You can fit 2x LAR, MWD, and 3 energy neutralizers on it too, and run these off the 1275m3 cargohold full of cap charges. It's the most ridiculous ship ever implemented, ever. The Paladin does less than half the DPS of this monster.

Shaitis
Caldari
Fallen Angel's
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:53:00 - [41]
 

Awesome, everything new is awesome, I can imagine atleast couple new tactics with new hulls, bring it in guys and nerf trolls.

Caol
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:54:00 - [42]
 

Any chance we could have a break down on skill reqs but more importantly the rational behind them?

Sarah Moonshine
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:55:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Sarah Moonshine on 23/10/2007 13:10:07
I'm a bit dismayed at the marauders.

First, because I really wanted to see a non-capital using a siege module (Razz).

Second, because while gallente and mimnatar get their damage boosted (considering their T1 counterpart), especially the Gallente, both Amarr and Caldari are stuck with pretty much with what they had before (albeit using less ammo, having a better tank, etc, etc); just some numbers:

Apocalypse: 8 turrets worth of damage;
Paladin: 4 turrets + 100% damage = 8 turrets worth of damage;

Raven: 6 bays + 33% damage = 8 bays worth of damage;
Golem: 4 bays + 100% damage = 8 bays worth of damage;

Megathron: 7 turrets + 25% damage = 8,75 turrets worth of damage;
Kronos: (4 turrets + 100% damage) + 25% damage = 10 turrets worth of damage;

Tempest: (6 turrets + 33% damage) + 25% damage = 10 turrets worth of damage;
Vargur: (4 ruttets + 100% damage) + 33% damage = 10,64 turrets worth of damage.

All things considered, we get much more resilient ships which, hopefully, won't be absurdly more expensive than a faction bs.


Edit: in due time: +100% range to tractor beam? come on!? I use tractor beams, I run missions but is about as pointless in pvp as using automatic targeting devices. Bring back our ships secondary bonus; make the Kronos an über tracker and give me back my 25% RoF! Twisted Evil

Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente
Infomorph Technologies
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:57:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Daedalus DuGalle on 23/10/2007 13:02:35
Edited by: Daedalus DuGalle on 23/10/2007 13:00:56
OMG the paladin is mine!!!

4 turrets basically removes cap problems, while having same damage. It still has the +5% cap per level = Happiness

Web bonus means I no longer fear solo speed tank ships. Add heat and even inties look less scary. Track bonus makes me very happy.

Tractor beam bonus = 40km tractor beam. W00tT!!! Looove. This should be good for both PvE and PvP.

Edit: Ok...after reading other people's posts maybe I was a tad optimistic? But the Paladin still looks good to me!

Edit 2: @Deva Blackfire (read 2 posts below). Oops. Bah!

Garrakh
Posted - 2007.10.23 12:58:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: maarud
Sin screams nano me, bad, bad, bad.

Any idea when this will all be on SISI?


IIRC they have high mass and high agility. The result is that the ship handles like a normal battleship but the high mass prevents it from being nanoed effectively.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:01:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Daedalus DuGalle
OMG the paladin is mine!!!

4 turrets basically removes cap problems, while having same damage. It still has the +5% cap per level = Happiness


No it doesnt.

apoc: 8 guns x0,5 cap use = 4 guns
apoc t2 = 4 guns x1 cap use = 4 guns (it doesnt get cap red. bonus - surprise!)

Quote:

Web bonus means I no longer fear solo speed tank ships. Add heat and even inties look less scary. Track bonus makes me very happy.



Dunno... i NEVER had tracking problems on missions with abaddon/apoc. And whatever got into web range was killed by normal 90% web anyways. Frigs died before they closed on me (drones + scorch L sniping)

Quote:

Tractor beam bonus = 40km tractor beam. W00tT!!! Looove. This should be good for both PvE and PvP.


Yeh thats nice

Khan Soriano
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:02:00 - [47]
 

In response to this awesome Black Ops battleships I just changed my skill training from Cloaking 5 to Minmatar Cruisers 5 (Broadsword is clearly the best heavy dictor, shield tank+tackle=WIN) and their frigate is just Embarassed

StarDust Hunter
Dragon Highlords
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:03:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Xequecal
The Kronos with 3x faction ... The Paladin does less than half the DPS of this monster.

At least it will be dirt cheap compared to others... ugh Kind of reminds me of another very fine amarr ship - augoror Rolling Eyes

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:06:00 - [49]
 

NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.

This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.

Mersault
Gallente
The Pie Factory
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:08:00 - [50]
 

interesting timing

Laudicia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:12:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.

This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.



npc`s shoot and use ewar from 200km would like to have the same chance based ew plz

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:12:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Mersault
interesting timing

You couldn't POSSIBLY be thinking about CCP trying to divert attention from that 'other blog' so they don't have to answer?

I'm shocked... truly shocked....

On-topic: However, since we have Devs reading this thread. How about the Golem and Defender missiles????

Alyxa Mahan
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:13:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Daedalus DuGalle
OMG the paladin is mine!!!

4 turrets basically removes cap problems, while having same damage. It still has the +5% cap per level = Happiness

Notice the lack of the -10% cap use per level?
The Paladin will burn through cap just as fast as the Apoc.
While that SuperMega now has blasters that cost half as much to use, in addition to the greater firepower, and the ability to keep everyone in blaster optimal.
Halleluja!

Serenity Black
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:14:00 - [54]
 

i cannot see who will use a Golem for missions:
- it will be more expensive than a cnr
- it has less firepower than a cnr
- the boni (tp, expl vel.) are only usefull if using torps, but with coming changes
nobody will use torps in missions anymore
- can tank all misions already so no additional mid slot needed
- defender missile will reduce effective damage of golem drastically

so please explain the use of that ship!
also explain that powerhouse Kronos

Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:14:00 - [55]
 

Cool! Thnx guys!

Now when will they be available on Sisi?


Tareen Kashaar
Gyoza Society
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:16:00 - [56]
 

OMG, I'm exploding with lovejuice.

Carthum Apoc! <3
CreoDron Domi! <3

And everything.

Do WANT.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:18:00 - [57]
 

Once again it appears the status quo is maintained with amarr getting shafted, gallente getting most of the love, and minmatar a close second.

Kaakao
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:18:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
NPC ECM is % based. It is not effected by the targets Sensor strength.

This means that the Marauders are effected exactly the same as any other ship by NPC ECM activities.



How about defender missiles? Will anything be done to npc's spamming them like no tomorrow? I see 4 missile launchers having hard time to hit npc's with multiple defender launchers. Confused

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:20:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Serenity Black
i cannot see who will use a Golem for missions:
- it will be more expensive than a cnr
- it has less firepower than a cnr


Its a T2 version of a T1 ship. Its not a T2 version of a faction ship.

Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente
Infomorph Technologies
Posted - 2007.10.23 13:20:00 - [60]
 

Actually, I just realized something. No matter what you think of the Marauder bonii, each is better then it's T1 counterpart.

Could this lead to the current situation with T1 cruiser and T2 cruisers? Namely that T1 cruisers are far eclipsed by their T2 counterparts, they see very limited action?

Or not? I guess a large part is the T1 cruisers being overshadowed by T1 BCs.


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