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Honfoglalo Hajvas
Posted - 2007.11.28 16:01:00 - [511]
 

The Paladin has a nearly useless bonus:
A web bonus for that BS (2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level )

If any ship in web range, large lasers don't really hit a ship with good tracking skill.
(except Battlecruiser or larger vessel (>300m sig radius) 5000+ meter range with pulse laser).
Needless to say, a Paladin has 4 med slot, so nobody realy wan't fit a web in that ship.

I think any other will serve better those ships:

-Optimal Range 10% (maybe too powerfull for pvp)
-Tracking 7.5% (not really usefull)
-Rate of fire 5% (this helps a lot for dps)
-Armor resist 5% (like other Amarr ship)

-web range is little better, than previos, but this is a "Old Minmatar" skill, not amarrian.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.11.28 22:52:00 - [512]
 

Originally by: Honfoglalo Hajvas
The Paladin has a nearly useless bonus:
A web bonus for that BS (2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level )

If any ship in web range, large lasers don't really hit a ship with good tracking skill.
(except Battlecruiser or larger vessel (>300m sig radius) 5000+ meter range with pulse laser).
Needless to say, a Paladin has 4 med slot, so nobody realy wan't fit a web in that ship.



And why wouldn't they want to? The Paladin's cap is good enough that with 2 T1 CCC rigs and 3 cap rechargers II, you already have more than enough cap to perma-run everything with a single-rep tank (and since you're going to use that ship mainly against blood raiders/sanchas, you don't need a dua lrep tank). That mean you have one mid and 7 lows to fill up with web, 4-slots tank and 3 damage mods, or a mix of damage mods and trakcing enhancers.

Big Bit
Posted - 2007.11.29 01:56:00 - [513]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
I tried the Paladin, and even with the marauder skill lv3 it was extremely satisfactory. Serpentis 205k battlecruisers killed in two mega beams salvoes (and that was with beam spec II and T1 multifreq ammos, not faction ones). Any Npc easily hit. Tachyons wrecking hits at 3830+ on structure...

Flying a purple ship take some getting used to Wink, but the Paladin is worth it.

(I won't say. I have same results in Abaddon)
Now go, and try the same think in Kronos, you will find little difference.
Paladin does have better damage than BS, but is definitely not worth of price, or even comparison to other Marauders.

Amarrs are only race that need bonuses to fly their own ships. How many ships have cap bonus (capacitor use) instead of something meaningful? Race is race if have something that only they have. Don't give Amarrs things from other races, they have their own. Go to hell with stasis webifier velocity factor and armor repair amount.

Maybe I'm too disappointed because I hoped Amarrs will have their comeback with these new ships (Does they even have epoch of glory?), and what we get is more than disappointment.

Comrade Bishka
Space Pioneers
Posted - 2007.12.02 14:47:00 - [514]
 

Edited by: Comrade Bishka on 02/12/2007 14:56:27
Edited by: Comrade Bishka on 02/12/2007 14:48:12
WoW some really nice ships thereSurprised

I look forward to these new ships and the other game changes.

this update looks to be a blastLaughing

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.02 23:04:00 - [515]
 

I wonder if CCP people are even reading this,

but if you are, start to lidten to your player and rework AMARR

OUR PLADDIN have less damage THAN the ALL the other marauder, YET, ITs the one with the most cap intensive weapon

now on the constructive part:

palladin:

5%damage
5%rof
2%web
5%resist

100% damage

that what will bring it in line with the other ship

and dont say a ROF bonus is too powerfull, ITS ALSO INCREASE THE CAP USE BY THE SAME RATIO

JESUS GET A CLUE

LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYER......

WE ARE PIST, ANGRY AND MAD that CCP is yet to get a clue or a TRUE balance team on the case,

TILL THEM

REVELATION FAIL

btw, just how many tread its gonna take for the problem to be resolved,

amarr=

no EW(no med)
insane cap use
Crappy base bonus to cap use
lower damage, but with the highest cap use even with to skill

ouhouh ouh its balanced right.......we are getting more and more angry that your dev team is not doing anything, or giving any clues that they are

HOW MANY ****** thread , HOW MANY PPL ,its gonna take for you to understand, look at all your stats .....

AND NEVER MENTION AGAIN THAT YOU THINK AMARR ARE BALANCED, IT WOULD BE AN INSULT TO HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.

thx.

PS. when a balance team fail, and doesnt even bother with more than 15% of its player, at least, it should give clues or info on what they are tewsting to solve the problem, so far, after a year of promised omph, all we got were nerf of clueless devs that will never fly amarr because of how much they are broken atmMad

PPS, to ppl complaining about vagur fitting problem with arty, well DONT BOTHER, its even less intensive than fitting beam laser on any amarr ship.Mad











Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.03 02:09:00 - [516]
 

Stop trying to use logic when arguing with CCP on ship balance, they have no freaking clue whatsoever, just make sure that Gallente ships are best, and screw the rest. Why the hell does the Vargur have only 7900 PG? Not even enough to fit freaking 1200s + ultra light tank + mwd with one RCU2, not to mention 1400s, while the bloody Gallente marauder fits THEIR biggest guns with ease. Gallente online indeed.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.12.03 09:53:00 - [517]
 

Originally by: Tradesman Mcgee
Stop trying to use logic when arguing with CCP on ship balance, they have no freaking clue whatsoever, just make sure that Gallente ships are best, and screw the rest. Why the hell does the Vargur have only 7900 PG? Not even enough to fit freaking 1200s + ultra light tank + mwd with one RCU2, not to mention 1400s, while the bloody Gallente marauder fits THEIR biggest guns with ease. Gallente online indeed.


They already explained this: They don't want a ship whose weapons doesn't use cap, to be able to fit 3 heavy neuts + autocanons.

Of course, the sensible thing to do would then be to up the PG requirements of every autocanons (because a weapon that require 5 CPU and 2 PG is a joke anyway), so the vargur could choose between AC and artilleries, but it seems it's too much work for CCP...

As for Paladin doing less dps than the other Marauders, lol.

Ina Mina
Posted - 2007.12.03 10:44:00 - [518]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Tradesman Mcgee
Stop trying to use logic when arguing with CCP on ship balance, they have no freaking clue whatsoever, just make sure that Gallente ships are best, and screw the rest. Why the hell does the Vargur have only 7900 PG? Not even enough to fit freaking 1200s + ultra light tank + mwd with one RCU2, not to mention 1400s, while the bloody Gallente marauder fits THEIR biggest guns with ease. Gallente online indeed.


They already explained this: They don't want a ship whose weapons doesn't use cap, to be able to fit 3 heavy neuts + autocanons.

Of course, the sensible thing to do would then be to up the PG requirements of every autocanons (because a weapon that require 5 CPU and 2 PG is a joke anyway), so the vargur could choose between AC and artilleries, but it seems it's too much work for CCP...

As for Paladin doing less dps than the other Marauders, lol.


Well, instead of making the Vargur a bloody useless ship, they should just give it a penalty to powergrid use on neuts instead, as it is now its a ****ing joke.

Kyle Frost
Caldari
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.12.03 12:24:00 - [519]
 

Edited by: Kyle Frost on 03/12/2007 12:30:56
I will comment on the Black ops and Marauders ships as those are the ones that interest me.
“…then come back here and post your feedback, remember to be constructive.” Constructive… right ! Here it goes :

Black Ops – I like the general idea, although I am not sure how many people will use those ships for their main purpose – to smuggle forces behind enemy lines. Why ? Cause the ships that you are allowed to transport can fit cloaks and pass through an enemy blockade on their own. Some players suggested that Black Ops battleships should be allowed to use covert ops cloaking device. Makes sense , but it will probably make the ships a bit overpowered. The + cloaked speed bonus is good enough.

Now , regarding the ships maneuverability. From what I can see , black ops battleships have large mass – larger than the tech 1 BSs and even the Marauders. Several of the posters above mentioned that the agility of a Black ops BS is similar to that of a freighter. That is contradictory to the name , the idea and the description that YOU wrote for those ships. If you feel the need to mess with their weight and agility you should make them lighter and more agile than regular BSs. “The Black Ops specialize in infiltration and covert operation.” Yeah and they pack an extra 50 000 000kg to keep them company on the lone journey . Brilliant !

Redeemer – Good ship. Not sure how useful the tracking bonus will be. Maybe you can exchange it for a webbing range bonus.

Widow – My personal favorite. ECM strength bonus should be 20% per level. 6 missile slots will be too much to ask I guess :)

Sin – Very good ship. Scrap the agility bonus and give it a tracking or maybe sensor dampening bonus. No wait… the sensor dampening bonus might not be such a good idea – I can hear the whining already.

Panther – Shiny ! The + speed bonus is nice. Again 6 turret slots will probably be too much…

Marauders – Cool ships. Obviously designed for PvE , but I remember some Dev stating that they will also be viable in PvP. I find that a little hard to believe , considering that some of the ships can’t even fit 4 weapons without power grid upgrades. “Honey , I bought this really expensive car , it has tons of extras but it only has one seat and goes at 30 mph tops”.

Paladin – ahmmmmm. Replace the + cap bonus with a cap recharge bonus. And maybe swap the web bonus for + armor resistance bonus – Amarr ships are suppose to have very strong armor , right? Oh and show me one reason why a pilot should choose this ship over any of the other marauders or even the tech1 amarr battleships ? Cause it’s pink ?

Golem – I like this one. Ditch the missile explosion velocity bonus and give it a rate of fire bonus. Some players pointed out that this ship might have DPS issues because of the defender missiles NPCs often use. I agree.

Kronos – Impressive. Who made this one ? And while we are on the subject , do you have different people designing the ships for each race or 1 group of Devs makes all the ships ? “ When I was a little boy nobody would play with me cause I was packing hollow point bullets while the other boys were shooting with paper darts!” <--- Kronos commercial .

Vargur – Switch the + falloff bonus for a + optimal bonus. And increase the powergrid ! I am sure you can find another way to prevent it from fitting 3 neuts + autocannons in the high slots.

These are my thoughts on the new ships. Now , I won't get into the whole “boost Amarr” debate but there is one thing I would like to point out. If we assume that all 4 races are at about the same technological level , it will make sense that weapons which use the most energy also do the most damage. As it stands now , blasters use less cap and do more damage than lasers in close range. Lasers have more than twice the optimal range of blasters, but in order to take advantage of that you need the ability to maintain distance from your target. Amarr ships don’t have that ability , because they run out of cap.

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.03 14:15:00 - [520]
 

Originally by: Kyle Frost

Vargur – Switch the + falloff bonus for a + optimal bonus. And increase the powergrid ! I am sure you can find another way to prevent it from fitting 3 neuts + autocannons in the high slots.


WTF Shocked

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.03 14:21:00 - [521]
 

Edited by: HarryManback on 03/12/2007 14:21:47
First of all nobody in their rightful mind would fit noses in the last few slots even if they gave the ships a whole load more power. And if you fit neuts a puppy will die.

On the serious side. If you give this ship more powergrid then yes people may fit neuts on the remaining high slots. But it will make their capacitor cry (which when i checked was not of t2 caliber). But instead of making a pwr grid penalty to neuts and noses why don't ccp put a slight bonus on remote energy/shield/armour reps (one not all). That way people might prioritize them over the vampires.

I havent thought this out for very long so please correct anything you may like but keep an open mind cuz this may prove a decent idea. And if not them I'm sorry for wasting 2 inches of space on the forum Very Happy.


HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.03 14:23:00 - [522]
 

Additionally the vargur will and should be operated at around 25-30kms making neuts/noses even less effective on said ship.

Miriam Mar
Perkone
Posted - 2007.12.03 14:33:00 - [523]
 

You should be able to operate the Vargur at any range you wish, just like the Gallente marauder, however, the (insert random nasty word)that designed the Minnie one clearly disagrees with that, and made it a worthless piece of spacejunk instead.

Samantha Coleman
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2007.12.03 16:26:00 - [524]
 

Edited by: Samantha Coleman on 03/12/2007 16:31:50
Edited by: Samantha Coleman on 03/12/2007 16:27:36
Originally by: HarryManback
Originally by: Kyle Frost

Vargur – Switch the + falloff bonus for a + optimal bonus. And increase the powergrid ! I am sure you can find another way to prevent it from fitting 3 neuts + autocannons in the high slots.


WTF Shocked

What is it exactly that you do not understand? Don't you think it will be better to have a + optimal range bonus to your turrets instead of + falloff range bonus ?! Rolling Eyes

EDIT: This is Kyle Frost. Stupid forums settings... Oh and Harry , there is this amazing button called "edit" - it allows you to write what you want in one post instead of making 3 in a row.

ericret
Posted - 2007.12.03 16:52:00 - [525]
 

Edited by: ericret on 03/12/2007 16:55:19
+Optimal range would be insanely good, doubt that'd happen. Falloff bonus is ghey, but whatever, you can only really use this crappy ship with autocannons anyway due to the horribly gimp amount of powergrid CCP in all their wisdom has seen fit to give it.

Destructor1792
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.03 19:45:00 - [526]
 

Typical Minmatar Ship engagement using projectiles:

hit, hit , hit , miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, wrecking shot (WTF.. where'd that come from!?), miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, hit, hit, miss.

And Please stop with the damn Shield bonuses!! Every new Minny ship out now is shield boost this, shield boost that.. Split systems Devs.. mix it up more and give us some armor tank loving Rolling Eyes

So in short, Vargur will hit jack.. if you get in close then *pop* and the panther.. well, i'm still trying to figure out whether to laugh or cry on that one Shocked

.

App Rentoo
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.03 22:21:00 - [527]
 

Originally by: Destructor1792
And Please stop with the damn Shield bonuses!! Every new Minny ship out now is shield boost this, shield boost that..Rolling Eyes

So in short, Vargur will hit jack.. if you get in close then *pop* and the panther.. well, i'm still trying to figure out whether to laugh or cry on that one Shocked
.


**** yes, stop with the worthless shield boost bonuses, and give the vargur more powergrid so its not the insanely crappy piece of junk it is now.

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.03 22:42:00 - [528]
 

Im loving the shield boost bonus for the vargur. It should be shield tanked imo. But Minmatar ships will never get an optimal range bonus. Their guns work on falloff. That is the projectile characteristic.

An 800mm Autocannon II has a 4800 optimal range and a 16000 falloff range. Which one would you rather get a 25% bonus to???

Corvac
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.12.04 00:03:00 - [529]
 

I'd rather get a boost to optimal, thank you very much. Then you could make the ship close to useful with arties, instead we get this worthless junk that can barely fit with freaking autocannons even.

Chronnick Bladerunner
Posted - 2007.12.04 00:19:00 - [530]
 


Im being a nit picker..but I've seen "redundantly phrased multipliers" in a lot of ships descriptions and think it is somewhat lacking of purpose, usefulness...and semi-user unfriendly

Let me try to explain:

For example: In Marauder descriptions.

"5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage per Gallente BS level
and 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Gallente BS level
"

OK... NOW, since these ships REQUIRE BS V to begin with..

Why not just say - 25% bonus to hybrid turret damage
and - 10% stasis webifier velocity factor

Is it CCP's intention to keep people doing 5x tables in their heads?
YES I KNOW that by the time peeps get into TECH II ships they should know what the bonuses etc are anyhow...but why oh why must it be this way!

AGAIN its just a lil nit Im picking... I am one for the details. and wont hesitate to point out features that may have need of adjustment or improvement to make the game and eve experience as "user friendly" as poss.

Joanne McGee
Posted - 2007.12.04 00:39:00 - [531]
 

Originally by: HarryManback
Im loving the shield boost bonus for the vargur. It should be shield tanked imo. But Minmatar ships will never get an optimal range bonus. Their guns work on falloff. That is the projectile characteristic.

An 800mm Autocannon II has a 4800 optimal range and a 16000 falloff range. Which one would you rather get a 25% bonus to???


A 1400 Howitzer Artillery II has an optimal range of 48km and a falloff range of 35km. I'll take the optimal, thank you very much. Screw the shield boost bonus anyway, give us something more useful, like a resist bonus? Please? Oh, and more powergrid. This ship sucks.

Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.12.04 08:55:00 - [532]
 

Well it looks like the Dev team are far too concerned with the possible backlash on the carrier changes to read this thread, let alone reply to concerns. I guess this proves how little CCP think of the PvE players of EVE.

HarryManback
Minmatar
Exotic Dancers Club
Imorral Dragons
Posted - 2007.12.04 12:36:00 - [533]
 

Originally by: Joanne McGee
Originally by: HarryManback
Im loving the shield boost bonus for the vargur. It should be shield tanked imo. But Minmatar ships will never get an optimal range bonus. Their guns work on falloff. That is the projectile characteristic.

An 800mm Autocannon II has a 4800 optimal range and a 16000 falloff range. Which one would you rather get a 25% bonus to???


A 1400 Howitzer Artillery II has an optimal range of 48km and a falloff range of 35km. I'll take the optimal, thank you very much. Screw the shield boost bonus anyway, give us something more useful, like a resist bonus? Please? Oh, and more powergrid. This ship sucks.


have fun fitting em.

Silent Viper
Posted - 2007.12.04 12:58:00 - [534]
 

Indeed...have fun fitting them. This ship needs a HUGE powergrid boost to not be total suck.

princess katie
Posted - 2007.12.11 12:19:00 - [535]
 

LOL forget about all whats good and whats bad and what we need and what we dont in a ship ,,,,,,,first of all, where the frack are they?
or is it just a way of releasing a Virus by telling us all we get new ships if we down loaded CCP,s skill book called <this is a new patch, trust us.>

Ottman
Amarr
LoneWolf Mining
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.06 11:59:00 - [536]
 

well have a real look at marauders, the only one that will pown is the golem, and why ? ah yeah there was something... yepp the only marauder that can bypass the vulnurability against e-war is the golem because it can use fof ammo to pown. so every clever pilot that has taken caldari as avatar will laugh about the rest and **** on us, any other marauder is turret based and will get trouble in level 4 or level 5 missions and in pvp also.
and the paladin... well i am amarr avatar and can only cry once more, if i look at the paladin. no armor resistance bonus or dmg/rof bonus per bs level, and no one sacrifice the few med slots for a web ugh, every amarr pilot will fit cap recharger or cap injectors if he had to.
that amarr are the race that is mostly ****ed up when new ship classes comes up is the reason why i skilled gallente ships too btw, the "advantage" to use not ammo base weapons that amarr have is only so on t1 level, already on t2 level the laser crystals are using up and are more likely ammo, but not with the effect of that more dps that other ammo based weapons have on t2 level.
its simple, make t2 crystals easy to invent for everyone, make them like t1 crystals that way that they dont use up and you ccp guys can left the amarr ships like they are.
but whatever we player telling you ccp guys do what you want and we have to live with it if we dont want to cancel subscriptions.
you play with the fact that ppl have invested much time and sometimes heard blood into this game and love it, but dont overdo that ccp or you hit yourself badly and you wont recover from that if you go over the breaking point .
that what you ccp guys call sometimes balancing is a nightmare sometimes, go to solarium and tank some sunlight to get your brains back on track...Cool

MfG ottman

nails
Caldari
Ota Corps
Posted - 2008.01.22 15:50:00 - [537]
 

From what I can tell, the Vargur is pretty useless for a PVP/Mission ship. I have to waste all of my low slots with grid boosters just to let me fit a 4th gun, and then I have to worry about fitting all the mid slots. On a flip note, what the Vargur and other marauders are good for is salvaging loot. Nothing else in the game has a tractor beam bonus like the marauders. I'll be using them as salvaging ships instead of battleships, cause that's all they are good for IMO.

Darth Felin
Posted - 2008.01.24 12:33:00 - [538]
 

Originally by: nails
From what I can tell, the Vargur is pretty useless for a PVP/Mission ship. I have to waste all of my low slots with grid boosters just to let me fit a 4th gun, and then I have to worry about fitting all the mid slots. On a flip note, what the Vargur and other marauders are good for is salvaging loot. Nothing else in the game has a tractor beam bonus like the marauders. I'll be using them as salvaging ships instead of battleships, cause that's all they are good for IMO.


Vargur is far from useless but don't even try to fit an arty there. It is pure AC ship.

Amaldor Themodius
Psykotic Meat
Posted - 2008.01.25 01:21:00 - [539]
 

Guys i can see a few valid points here but there is a whole lot of whining as well.. I agree CCP has a case to answer with AMMAR.. but the rest i dont really see a case to complain too much.. all races have ships in some classes that are better than their counter parts.. examples of this can be found in the Vagabond, Rook, Nighthawk, Dominix and others..

I guess i would request players to sit back and chill a little this is a game its supposed to be fun... I have been concerned with a number of the nerfs that have affected my race (GALENTAE) especially in the recent patches with changes to drones, sensor damps (especially with the ecm buff), nos, and a number of our key PVP vessels. It almost felt like we were being punnished. Like yourselves these changes made me a bit hot under the collar but in the balance of time I have come to trust the developers to continue balanceing the game despite my anxiousness whenever a change is announced for ships i fly.. The upcomming carrier nerf is expecially concerning for me but I guess i trust them enough to strike a healthy balance...

May cool heads prevail...


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