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Sheamis Kast
Farlight Council
Posted - 2007.10.24 21:30:00 - [391]
 

Um...this has been said already but, what the hell? The Paladin is horrible. Without the cap use bonus it has the same cap use and (without the cap stats listed I can only assume) the same cap as the Apoc, while the Kronos gets to do the damage of 8 hybrids for half the cap consumption.

How about a damage bonus? Tracking is nice but does not replace a damage bonus at all. Aren't these ships supposed to be for mission running? If so, what is the purpose of the webber bonus? Most NPCs don't come into web range and I am not exactly going to be chasing them down in a battleship. Seriously this ship does less damage with pulses and scorch then the Kronos does with rails.

Until or unless you fix lasers this ships needs the laser cap use bonus, no one likes it but there is no other way since you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon. The Cap capacity bonus does not even make up the difference for the lack of cap use bonus, drop that and give us the cap use.

The Tracking and the web bonus are redundant, plus lasers alreay have good tracking so if you really want to keep the random ewar bonus drop the tracking and give us a damage or rate of fire bonus. The Kronos gets a bigger drone bay and a damage bonus, at least give us one boost to damage.

The rep amount bonus is a gallente bonus give the paladin a resistance bonus.

Proposed bonuses
10% reduction in laser capacitor need per Amarr BS level
5% bonus to large energy turret ROF per Amarr BS level
7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
5% bonus to armor resistances per Marauder level

This would atleast make the ship viable compared to the Kronos or Vargur

Leya Marcsson
Posted - 2007.10.24 22:22:00 - [392]
 

Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 24/10/2007 22:45:33

Please give the Widow 15-20% bonus to ECM effectiveness per Black Ops level, like the Recons & EW Frigs have. She really need that to be good in ECM. She will likly run 6 Jammers in the Mids only leaving place for a Sensor Booster and a ECCM. 4 low Slots are to less to make a tank in case the jammer fail, especily cause you'll need 1+ SDA II even with 20% bonus.


Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.24 22:29:00 - [393]
 

Wouldn't a Golem with the new torps, neutralizers, and a hitpoint tank pretty much make mincemeat of a Kronos, or indeed any close range combat ship? In fact once the changes go through the same applies to the Raven, that kind of damage from 30km seems pretty over-powered.

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.24 23:06:00 - [394]
 

Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 24/10/2007 23:08:20
Originally by: Sheamis Kast

Until or unless you fix lasers this ships needs the laser cap use bonus, no one likes it but there is no other way since you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon. The Cap capacity bonus does not even make up the difference for the lack of cap use bonus, drop that and give us the cap use.


eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all. so no this ship does not need that crappy -10% capuse reduction bonus it already has this built in due to using half the turrets.
also note that the 5% cap capacity bonus is actually pretty good for missions as it allows for easier use of dual repper tanks...just like it does on the normal apoc.

you are correct about the uselessness of the webbing bonus and the not all that much needed tracking bonus but please stay away from the cap bonuses if you dont understand how they work.


a much better paladin would look like this for example:
+5% cap capacity (stays in place)
+5% laser damage (to actually give a reason to use this ship instead of the abaddon)
+7.5% armor repair amount (it seems ccp has decided to throw the racial differences for tanking bonuses away and repair amount should actually be better for missions...could still put 5% resists in here though)
+7.5% laser tracking (or 20% webifier range if you really have to go for some web bonus make it a range bonus able to reach 20km at lvl5 so its actually somewhat usefull)

also increase the dronebay but keep the the bandwidth the same....so you can have some spares and dont need to switch out for each mission.





edit: also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?


Mr Filth
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.24 23:32:00 - [395]
 

agility bonus to a cloaked Dominix, youre kidding right ?

repair or tracking bonus plz :)

Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.10.25 00:48:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
By the way, despite all the whines and complaints in this thread, a T2 Raven or Mega, or whatever is going to be in high demand, and you can expect them to cost quite a bit more than a faction battleship. I see CNRs all over the place these days, and I think the Golem will be preferred by mission runners even if the DPS is similar. For one thing, pilots will save on ammo costs. For another, the large cargo bay and tractor bonus will make cleaning up after a mission easier without having to change ships. If the T2s tank better than T1/faction, mission runners (and mission isk farmers -- they're becoming more and more common it appears) are going to be all over the Marauders.

Well, maybe not the Amarr, but then what else is new?



You haven't factored in defenders in the equation for the Golem DPS. If you fire 4 cruise missiles in a volley in a majority of level 4 missions (and a number of level 3's) you will be lucky if one cruise hits the target. Compare that to a volley of 6 or 7 cruise missiles with a ROF bonus and the Golem simply isn't competative. This doesn't even look at the proposed torp changes which will probably see them dropped by mission runners and ignores the power grid problems the Golem is going to have to even fit 4 seige launchers.

Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.10.25 00:53:00 - [397]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Wouldn't a Golem with the new torps, neutralizers, and a hitpoint tank pretty much make mincemeat of a Kronos, or indeed any close range combat ship? In fact once the changes go through the same applies to the Raven, that kind of damage from 30km seems pretty over-powered.


the problem is the Golem like all Caldari ships is heavy and slow, so anything else should be able to stay outisde the 30km radius and rip it apart.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2007.10.25 01:58:00 - [398]
 

Edited by: Cailais on 25/10/2007 01:58:34
The sentinel has an effective range of up to 18km with tech 2 neutralizers and can sustain 3 of them when optimized for capacitor recharge. This makes the Sentinel a serious threat even to battleships. - CCP Fendahl

Ive just tested about 10 sentis on sisi Fendahl, and I can assure you its not even remotely threatening to a Battleship, or well anything really. I did get insta popped by a maelstrom if that's what you mean??

Any Curse pilots wondering what the Sentinel is like, well its just like a curse, except its like flying one on aphetamines. Managing neuts, cap and drones I imagine is roughly equivalent to juggling jelly on a fast roller coaster.

Most useful fit; Drone Augs, a damp, sensor booster, cloak. Spam a few T2 Lights and run like billyo if someone looks at you funny.

Dies to; Anything with a web fitted.

Great fun mind you, market value? Hmm maybe 2mil isk if you fancy a laugh for 30 mins. Very Happy

C.


Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2007.10.25 03:25:00 - [399]
 

Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all.



Mhhh. I'd agree that it doesn't particularly need it. But as it stands the kronos saves about 40% gun capuse against the thron. So i do think it is very well a problem of balance.

Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne

edit: also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?



I can't speak for him but probably the fact that the 100% dmg bonus on the paladin will not apply to projectiles. Thus you would end up with 4 unbonused projectiles against 8 unbonused projectiles on apoc. Thus you technically *can* fit them - but it sure as hell is a bad idea.

Well, i really ask myself if we will ever see a paladin on tq. Who will invent this crap? And who will buy it? But hey our t1 ammo is indefinite. I think that balances it very well. Razz

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.25 03:58:00 - [400]
 

Originally by: Fendahl

Paladin

* Hull: Apocalypse / Carthum Conglomerate
* Slots: 7/4/7, 4 turrets
* Fitting: 500tf, 13,500mw
* Drones: 75Mbit/s bandwidth, 75m3 dronebay
* Sensors: 12pt radar, 10 target locks
* Propulsion: 125m/s, 110,000,000kg
* Tech II resistance bonus: 25% explosive, 12.5% kinetic

Bonuses:

* 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per Amarr BS level
* 2% bonus to stasis webifier velocity factor per Amarr BS level
* 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Marauder level
* 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking per Marauder level
* Role bonus: 100% bonus to large energy turret damage
* Role bonus: 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams

When using -90% webifiers, the stasis webifier velocity factor bonus increases the velocity factor penalty up to -99%, at which point a single webifier is as effective as two webifiers mounted on a standard ship. This means that the Paladin can easily hit any ship within web range, once the transversal velocity slows down.


Thanks for giving us a ship that costs 10 times as much as the Abaddon and sucks about the same as an Apocalypse....

The webber bonus is completely and utterly useless. I'm pretty sure that most people use drones to kill frigs and fast cruisers rather than fit a webber. 5 light or medium drones make short work of anything that comes under the optimal turret tracking range, and the 4 medslots can better be used on cap rechargers or afterburners... These are mission ships, not frigate tacklers.

The armor rep bonus is also bogus, really. While nice, it's a Gallente bonus, not an Amarr one. Personally i'd rather see a +5% to all resists per level.

The tracking also comes in a strange place. Lasers already have pretty decent tracking, they just do no damage at all. A tracking bonus doesnt change the fact that lasers do 0 damage to anything but bloods or sanshas. Replace it with either a 5% ROF or damage per level bonus. Even optimal range would be better.



But i guess if your mission is to eradicate Amarr ships from the game, well, mission achieved. Lets see when the nerfs hit the Abaddon and we're left with having to fit projectile weapons on Amarr ships to actually do any damage at all.

Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries
Posted - 2007.10.25 04:02:00 - [401]
 

while talking about pricing here:

will there be a change to inventions so these ships (especially the t2 bs) will be affordable? or will the pure manufacturing costs remain at approx. 1b (as they are with current chances of invention)?

Randice
Posted - 2007.10.25 05:26:00 - [402]
 

Releasing 16 ships in one patch isn't that a bit too much???
The game is patched twice a year in two-year-time you will have 64 new ships...man...I am not surprised none of my friends wants to play this game. I hope the T2 ships are VERY VERY rare (like T2 rigs).

Here's an idea....How about working on helping small corps started. Recruitment centers for corps to place an ad in? (include that into new player experience?!))

$^#@^$@^ Who's idea was it to include 'heat' into the game...I still hate it.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2007.10.25 06:13:00 - [403]
 

Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
By the way, despite all the whines and complaints in this thread, a T2 Raven or Mega, or whatever is going to be in high demand, and you can expect them to cost quite a bit more than a faction battleship. I see CNRs all over the place these days, and I think the Golem will be preferred by mission runners even if the DPS is similar. For one thing, pilots will save on ammo costs. For another, the large cargo bay and tractor bonus will make cleaning up after a mission easier without having to change ships. If the T2s tank better than T1/faction, mission runners (and mission isk farmers -- they're becoming more and more common it appears) are going to be all over the Marauders.

Well, maybe not the Amarr, but then what else is new?



Golem will not be preferred by missionrunners with brain. Well at least not for running missions. Wealthier missionrunners who have the skills to fly one will propably get one as salvage/looting ship instead of destroyer or interdictor for those rare missions where it's worth to loot or salvage.

As pointed out several times before me it's sub standard vs CNR. Defenders are not THAT huge issue, as I understand it defender launch by NPC's is propablity based per missile launched so both CNR and Golem will lose roughly equal amount of dps to defenders but talk about using less ammo being serious advantage is questionable. Ammo cost vs mission income is not something over what people who actually use level 4 missions as their main income would be too worried about. If you do the math you will see, that ability to run missions approx 15% faster in CNR vs Golem will outweight approx 30% ammo savings isk/h wise.

Point where Golem fails as mission running ship vs CNR is the usual question mission runners who care about effectivity have to ask themselves: How many seconds does it take to kill that ship over there ?

It will be popular nevertheless. It's very good for PvP and reasonable for ratting. Also people who are casual or not caring about effectivity that mutch might get one for missions. It's just not going to be 'the best' and thus people who care about effectivity in missions will go for CNR over that one.

ShurNui
Minmatar
Novaku Inc
Nekropolis
Posted - 2007.10.25 06:28:00 - [404]
 

what is this thing about drones bandwithQuestionQuestionQuestion

Pliauga
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.25 06:37:00 - [405]
 

Edited by: Pliauga on 25/10/2007 06:37:46
Edited by: Pliauga on 25/10/2007 06:37:17
Is any dev gonna answer this thread?
Seriously, come on. There have been some seriously good propositions on this thread. It would be nice to know what the devs think about them.

P.s. Bandwith is a new limitation to using drones.

Itcharo Wu
Trident Future Technologies
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.25 07:25:00 - [406]
 

I dont understand all the fuss about the golem.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always believed that the launch of defender missiles from rats is chanced based. That is, when a rat has a chance of like 25%, on average every 4th missile you launch will be destroyed.

So regardless whether you have 4, 6 or 7 launchers on your ship, your damage will be reduced by one quarter.

Of course, random is a ***** and 2 destroyed missiles out of 4 is a reduction of 50% dps but at the same time, the chance that all 4 missiles get through is higher than that all 7 missiles from a CNR do.

Dakisha
The NomNomNom
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:03:00 - [407]
 

My 2c on the Widow.

Nice, but it really needs a 15% or 20% ECM bonus per level. Given the insane ammt of money we'll be required to put in to it and the typically low insurance offered on T2 ships - to say it can only jam as well as a Blackbird and worse than a Kitsune is, imho - silly.

It has to sacrifice a majority of its tank in order to actually field ECM and as such; surely its tank is the ECM itself.

I'd even settle for 12.5% per lvl or 15% per lvl. 10% is underpowered for such an expensive beast, especially given a cruiser is capable of such already.

BlueCheese Guy
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:25:00 - [408]
 

I would agree with Dakisha regarding the Widow. Since the ECM class was nerferd awhile ago, I have not really put much effort into using Scorps. When I heard about the Black Ops featuring a T2 Scorp my hopes were that I would once again be fielding a strong alternative fleet support ship that uses old skills which had alot of SP investment. I think the suggestion of lowering tank and increasing ECM bonus to 12 or 15 percent is good.

However, I guess for the more mean players out there, it could make a very good piwat ship. Cloaking and sneaking up on people then webbing, jamming and scrambling could be fun.

BlueCheese Guy

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:45:00 - [409]
 

Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.

Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2007.10.25 09:50:00 - [410]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.

Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.


Defenders are minor issue. Most of the ranting come from the fact that CNR does more damage, thus runs missions faster, than Golem. Both ships will lose equal amount of dps to defenders.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.25 10:39:00 - [411]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Defender missiles is chance based PERS MISSILE fired on the rat ship. So the net resutl of defenders flyign wil be HALF of current.

Anyone speakign that defenders will cripple the golem ahs no idea hwo game works.


Defenders are minor issue. Most of the ranting come from the fact that CNR does more damage, thus runs missions faster, than Golem. Both ships will lose equal amount of dps to defenders.


remembers there is more PVE than lvl 4 missions. There are complexes and level 5 that are very hard for a signle raen to tank.

drakenn
Posted - 2007.10.25 10:55:00 - [412]
 

The new ships look sound but when u consider there tech 2 they look very under powered, what are we fitting them with civilian kit. Come on these are top of the line just look at say the maelstrom powergrid output 21000mw compered to the vargur 7,900mw its only 4 guns less, great ships till u try fitting them even the CPU looks poor 640 to 625 anyone taking the time over these ships might find there next to useless because of the fitting, not looked them all are they the same. ugh

GeneralKool
Best Served Cold.
Posted - 2007.10.25 11:53:00 - [413]
 

Originally by: drakenn
The new ships look sound but when u consider there tech 2 they look very under powered, what are we fitting them with civilian kit. Come on these are top of the line just look at say the maelstrom powergrid output 21000mw compered to the vargur 7,900mw its only 4 guns less, great ships till u try fitting them even the CPU looks poor 640 to 625 anyone taking the time over these ships might find there next to useless because of the fitting, not looked them all are they the same. ugh


These ships arent supposed to be the pwnmobile i-win buttonRolling Eyes just stick to their original role.

d026
temp holding
Posted - 2007.10.25 11:54:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon


remembers there is more PVE than lvl 4 missions. There are complexes and level 5 that are very hard for a signle raen to tank.


tanking complexes (in deep space) in a 1bil slow as hell bs is suicide. also you wont get the sig reduction which is huge if you field a af/hac to tank. and also you wont tank many lvl 5's in a golem. most of them require a pasive tank thanks to all those energy neut sentries..



Sheamis Kast
Farlight Council
Posted - 2007.10.25 12:47:00 - [415]
 

Edited by: Sheamis Kast on 25/10/2007 12:48:13
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne

eh how about no...the ship with its 4 turrets needs exactly the same cap for guns as a regular apoc with skill at level 5...cap is the one area where the apoc does not have any problems at all. so no this ship does not need that crappy -10% capuse reduction bonus it already has this built in due to using half the turrets.
also note that the 5% cap capacity bonus is actually pretty good for missions as it allows for easier use of dual repper tanks...just like it does on the normal apoc.

you are correct about the uselessness of the webbing bonus and the not all that much needed tracking bonus but please stay away from the cap bonuses if you dont understand how they work.



Wow, way to keep it proffesional. I suggested the cap use bonus over the cap size bonus because it saves you more cap. You will have more cap to run your tank with the laser cap use bonus then the bonus to cap size. So might I suggest doing some research before you tell people they don't know what they are talking about.

Cap use on four Mega Pulse IIs: 21.2 cap per second
With -50% cap use: 10.6 cap per second
Bonus cap: 10.6 Cap per Second

Native Cap regen on an Apocalypse with all skills to V except Amarr BS: 20.8 Cap per second
Native Cap regen on an Apocalypse with all skills to V including Amarr BS: 26 Cap per second
Bonus Cap: 5.2 Cap per Second

As you should be able to see you get nearly twice as much bonus cap with the laser cap use bonus then you do with the bonus to cap size. So you see I do understand how these things work I assumed others would to, my mistake I guess.

Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
also....what makes you think that "you can't fit it with autocannons like you can with the Abaddon."?


You are right, you can mount autocannons. Why didn't I think that 4 autocannons were a good replacement for an effective 8 lasers? Hmm...

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:31:00 - [416]
 

Had a little play around on sisi and it seems to me that the Paladin needs more PG and CPU (unless it was designed with 5% cpu implants, pg rigs and co-processors in mind ugh), and the Redeemer badly needs more CPU.

Also the phobos could do with a little more cpu too.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.25 13:44:00 - [417]
 

Originally by: Sylper Illysten
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Wouldn't a Golem with the new torps, neutralizers, and a hitpoint tank pretty much make mincemeat of a Kronos, or indeed any close range combat ship? In fact once the changes go through the same applies to the Raven, that kind of damage from 30km seems pretty over-powered.


the problem is the Golem like all Caldari ships is heavy and slow, so anything else should be able to stay outisde the 30km radius and rip it apart.


I fly Caldari a lot. I've mentioned in other threads the Caldari mass and agility need looking at if they are going to be moving more towards close range.

However saying stay outside 30km, outside web and scamble range, to defeat it kind of proves it's ability. It will have an MWD and it should have a tackler, so mobility won't be a huge issue. However the Golem will be largely tackler immune due to it's tp bonus and extra mid, though the new interceptor bonuses will put max skilled pilots just beyond it's reach with standard torps (though not javelins). However the Kronos will be relatively easy to pin down when blaster fitted provided the opponent stays out of web range.

Donathan Slade
Death By Consequence
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:12:00 - [418]
 

Originally by: Iog Krugar

- the Warp Disruption Field Generator I has a radius of 16km and a warp scramble strength of 1



Ok, Why only warp strength one? Dictors are "Can not warp even with stabs" type things. Why only one point?

Originally by: Iog Krugar

droneship bandwidth/dronebay changes: (shipname | bandwidth | dronebay)

ishkur | 25 | 25+5/lvl <- dps nerf / space boost
vexor | 75 | 100 <- space boost
myrmidon | 75 | 125 <- nerf
eos | 75 | 150+15/lvl <- dps/space nerf!
ishtar | 125 | 125+50/lvl <- unchanged
sentinel | 20 | 60
arbitrator/curse/pilgrim | 50 | 150 <- dps nerf / big space boost
typhoon/panther | 125 | 175 <- space boost

i didnt expect them to nerf the eos that hard. especially when not changing the ishtar. sentinel having a bigger drone bay than the ishkur comes somewhat unexpected as well. to say the least Rolling Eyes


Ok... WTF!!! Why can a T2 CRUISER!!! have more drones than a T2 BATTLECRUISER!!! Seriously! I mean, the Eos relies on its drones just like the Ishtar, just doesn't get a drone damage bonus.

Myrm, This is a drone boat. why does it have the SAME space as a Vexor, but controls a little more? At that point, I'm starting to think I'll just fly my vexor instead of a myrm, and save money.

I do however like the Ishkur change. Limiting to medium drones. HOWEVER!!! That sets me off on a another point, what is the purpose of AFs? They are over priced for what they can do vs cov-ops ships and interceptors. Interceptors are cheaper and I can do more with them (and speed tank way better).

I ask you to re-consider some of the ships and core purpose, and how people use them. Granted, the myrm even though I like one was a little over powered, however, to not increase the drone bay at all and only nerf their dps... doesn't help much.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.10.25 14:37:00 - [419]
 

Edited by: The Economist on 25/10/2007 14:50:46

Originally by: Donathan Slade
Originally by: Iog Krugar

- the Warp Disruption Field Generator I has a radius of 16km and a warp scramble strength of 1



Ok, Why only warp strength one? Dictors are "Can not warp even with stabs" type things. Why only one point?

Originally by: Iog Krugar

droneship bandwidth/dronebay changes: (shipname | bandwidth | dronebay)

ishkur | 25 | 25+5/lvl <- dps nerf / space boost
vexor | 75 | 100 <- space boost
myrmidon | 75 | 125 <- nerf
eos | 75 | 150+15/lvl <- dps/space nerf!
ishtar | 125 | 125+50/lvl <- unchanged
sentinel | 20 | 60
arbitrator/curse/pilgrim | 50 | 150 <- dps nerf / big space boost
typhoon/panther | 125 | 175 <- space boost

i didnt expect them to nerf the eos that hard. especially when not changing the ishtar. sentinel having a bigger drone bay than the ishkur comes somewhat unexpected as well. to say the least Rolling Eyes


Ok... WTF!!! Why can a T2 CRUISER!!! have more drones than a T2 BATTLECRUISER!!! Seriously! I mean, the Eos relies on its drones just like the Ishtar, just doesn't get a drone damage bonus.

Myrm, This is a drone boat. why does it have the SAME space as a Vexor, but controls a little more? At that point, I'm starting to think I'll just fly my vexor instead of a myrm, and save money.

I do however like the Ishkur change. Limiting to medium drones. HOWEVER!!! That sets me off on a another point, what is the purpose of AFs? They are over priced for what they can do vs cov-ops ships and interceptors. Interceptors are cheaper and I can do more with them (and speed tank way better).

I ask you to re-consider some of the ships and core purpose, and how people use them. Granted, the myrm even though I like one was a little over powered, however, to not increase the drone bay at all and only nerf their dps... doesn't help much.


1) Think ccp envisions the heavy dictors as capital tacklers, so the scram strength is less of an issure formm that point of view.

2) A little comparison for you as an example to illustrate why the eos needed to be changed (much as I hate to admit it....I personally loved the eos):

Eos:
Full rack of highest dmg weapons with t2 high dmg ammo, 2 dmg mods, ogre II's and max skills = 950dps.

Damnation:
Full rack of highest dmg weapons, with t2 high dmg ammo, 2 dmg mods, as many drones as it can fit = 443dps.

Claymore:
Same = 610dps. [uh-oh I smell something about to get nerfed Laughing]

Vulture = 422dps.

Since all can fit gang links without any probs, and people use all kinds of gang links on all fleet commands irrespective of ship bonus, the other things left to choose between them are dmg and tank. All can tank very well. With the eos doing so much more dmg, why bother flying any others?

That's why it needed a nerf, it was overpowered within its class. [myrm was similar, was a rung above the other ships in its class]

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.25 15:04:00 - [420]
 

Originally by: The Economist
Edited by: The Economist on 25/10/2007 14:50:46

Originally by: Donathan Slade
Originally by: Iog Krugar

- the Warp Disruption Field Generator I has a radius of 16km and a warp scramble strength of 1



Ok, Why only warp strength one? Dictors are "Can not warp even with stabs" type things. Why only one point?

Originally by: Iog Krugar

droneship bandwidth/dronebay changes: (shipname | bandwidth | dronebay)

ishkur | 25 | 25+5/lvl <- dps nerf / space boost
vexor | 75 | 100 <- space boost
myrmidon | 75 | 125 <- nerf
eos | 75 | 150+15/lvl <- dps/space nerf!
ishtar | 125 | 125+50/lvl <- unchanged
sentinel | 20 | 60
arbitrator/curse/pilgrim | 50 | 150 <- dps nerf / big space boost
typhoon/panther | 125 | 175 <- space boost

i didnt expect them to nerf the eos that hard. especially when not changing the ishtar. sentinel having a bigger drone bay than the ishkur comes somewhat unexpected as well. to say the least Rolling Eyes


Ok... WTF!!! Why can a T2 CRUISER!!! have more drones than a T2 BATTLECRUISER!!! Seriously! I mean, the Eos relies on its drones just like the Ishtar, just doesn't get a drone damage bonus.

Myrm, This is a drone boat. why does it have the SAME space as a Vexor, but controls a little more? At that point, I'm starting to think I'll just fly my vexor instead of a myrm, and save money.

I do however like the Ishkur change. Limiting to medium drones. HOWEVER!!! That sets me off on a another point, what is the purpose of AFs? They are over priced for what they can do vs cov-ops ships and interceptors. Interceptors are cheaper and I can do more with them (and speed tank way better).

I ask you to re-consider some of the ships and core purpose, and how people use them. Granted, the myrm even though I like one was a little over powered, however, to not increase the drone bay at all and only nerf their dps... doesn't help much.


1) Think ccp envisions the heavy dictors as capital tacklers, so the scram strength is less of an issure formm that point of view.

2) A little comparison for you as an example to illustrate why the eos needed to be changed (much as I hate to admit it....I personally loved the eos):

Eos:
Full rack of highest dmg weapons with t2 high dmg ammo, 2 dmg mods, ogre II's and max skills = 950dps.

Damnation:
Full rack of highest dmg weapons, with t2 high dmg ammo, 2 dmg mods, as many drones as it can fit = 443dps.

Claymore:
Same = 610dps. [uh-oh I smell something about to get nerfed Laughing]

Vulture = 422dps.

Since all can fit gang links without any probs, and people use all kinds of gang links on all fleet commands irrespective of ship bonus, the other things left to choose between them are dmg and tank. All can tank very well. With the eos doing so much more dmg, why bother flying any others?

That's why it needed a nerf, it was overpowered within its class. [myrm was similar, was a rung above the other ships in its class]



The claymore extra damage can only be achieved usign the missile slots as extras that you will not have space to do it when usign the gang links.

Its real dps is on low 500.


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