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Magister Herm
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:30:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Magister Herm
Hmm.. with the Eos and the Myrmidons Drone Control amount nerfed,.. is there any other "real" droneboat left?

Or is the Sin the new Gallente Droneboat?
(Or did anybody change the "Gallente do drones" to "Gallente do drones after 1 year of skill learning time"?)

You mean like the Dominix and Ishtar?


For Dominix: true, this one is left..

For Ishtar: yes.. but why does a T2 Cruiser class vessel have significantly more Drone control than the T1 BC, and even way more than the T2 BC? In other words: there is no much need anymore for Myrmidon and EOS, as the gap between Ishtar and eg Myrmi is rather small...

xXxCCxXx
Ray of Matar Assembly
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:41:00 - [272]
 

dont tell me that these features are 100% going to rev 3...


IMO tractor beam bonus= Booo
TP bonus on golem= Booo

and why didnt the paladin and golem get a damage bonus?!

other than that I like it Neutral
CCP a reply please

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:44:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

Also Amarr. Don't Amarr ships already get the cap use bonus to off-set the general power of lasers compared to other turrets? In effect meaning that Amarr ships get a turret bonus but need cap-use bonus to sustain them. The shift to 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus means you get your turret bonus for free, making the +5% cap the icing on the cake.



Another clueless guy. It is EXACTLY same as apoc. Check bonuses on both ships.


That is exactly my point, it achieves the same cap use as the Apoc without taking a bonus to do so.

In exchange one less turret to avoid the inherent damage "bonus" of lasers pushing the damage too high. Four unbonused Tachyons do the same damage as five unbonused Railguns, though with greater tracking and lesser range.

I'd have thought that this would be apparent to anyone who flies Amarr battleships on a regular basis... or did you believe many of your ships were down a bonus? Rolling Eyes

One could argue that the capacitor bonus is therefore not as good as the Kronos' damage bonus, however the Paladin doesn't fill exactly the same role. It is designed for stamina (a feature I'd have thought many Amarr players would be happy about) or cap control when fitting neutralizers, again allowing it to outlast it's peers.

Whether or not the capacitor bonus amount is correct will show itself in testing as this is something of a new addition to ship bonuses.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:53:00 - [274]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

One could argue that the capacitor bonus is therefore not as good as the Kronos' damage bonus, however the Paladin doesn't fill exactly the same role. It is designed for stamina (a feature I'd have thought many Amarr players would be happy about) or cap control when fitting neutralizers, again allowing it to outlast it's peers.



Now search for those "many amarr players happy about stamina" or "cap control". And tell me how "cap control" helps in mission running/npcing in belts.

Franga
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:56:00 - [275]
 

I am now going to train for Minmatar frigate 5. I want longer webbing range! HOT AS!

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:07:00 - [276]
 

Edited by: Mack Dorgeans on 23/10/2007 21:07:59

Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.

Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.

Edit: hacking exploration site drops should not only be increased, but the sites themselves need to spawn more often -- takes forever to find any it seems.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:09:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.

Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.



Its not that much tbh. I did my shopping today, abt 900mil for 10x invention job (+9 run decryptors). So after 4 t2 BS sold you should start getting invested iskies back (and thats with LOW BS prices).

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:10:00 - [278]
 

None of the new ships will ever be totally unprofitable to invent; people will just have to expect to pay a premium for the ones that are not so much in demand, or possibly ask someone to build them to order.

As for the Sentinel - I'd suggest changing small nos and neuts so that they have optimal of 9-10km, still forcing normal frigates into web range if they want to use them, but allowing the sentinel to operate just outside heavy neut range.

Agif
UnderDog Industries
Free Trade Zone.
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:25:00 - [279]
 

Ok so we getting new ships yay! There T2 YAY! Oh wait its another raven chasis BOOOO!!!!

Yeah ok the T2 needs to have a T1 predecessor but you picked the raven and the scorp (These for example)

I mean how many versions of the raven and scorp do we need. + the fact that we already have a T2 version of the caracal being the cerb. Along with all the other cruisers they all have a t2 version so why not create a new ship for the heavy interdictor.

Hmmm = lazyness?

So going back to the BS class we have lots of versions of the raven and the scorp so why not use the Rokh chasis for the Marauders class? I mean how many versions of the rokh is there...

Again lack of thinking or was it just easier....

Just my 2c on this but it seems we are getting a crp deal...

d026
temp holding
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:25:00 - [280]
 

thank god i haven't sold my cnr yet. the golem looks completely awefull. and im definitely gonna stick witch my cnr:)


Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:27:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: Shevar on 23/10/2007 21:31:45
Edited by: Shevar on 23/10/2007 21:28:14
Originally by: Elseer Radak
Hi,

for the ecm boats, there is a drone oddness:

Sentinel (60m3 drones with 20mbit/s) vs. Keres (10m3 drone bay with 10mbit/s)

it seems like a bug or a misprint



It's not, each ewar frigate is like a mini force recon.

Basicly meaning amarr got fucked since amarr are the only race using a main EW that is size dependant. It's just plain fucking retarded.

The only good thing about the amarr force recon was using the cap from nos for a really nasty tank and using drones for DPS. Now the recons of amarr are pretty crap to start with but the frigates are even worse...

Wh00t it can solo any frigate that depends on cap to shoot weapons. Now tell me how usefull is that? Rolling Eyes

Peepers ForPeeping
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:32:00 - [282]
 

caldari BS aint going to be great for missions. Why? NPC Defender missiles now pwn your dps when they take out 1 missile out of 4.

bah

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:38:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Tedric
Well, _very_ interesting ships.

I belive Maurders will become the mission runners ship of choice from now on, what with the interesting selection of high slot bonuses. An interesting side effect of this may be to bring back the use of the smart bomb, as the pressure on high slots has been reduced on these ships.

The Black Ops ships will bring Griefing to a whole new level. It will also bring an interesting brand of ‘cat and mouse’ in contested system.

ted.


With their raw DPS output, larger cargo capacity, and open high slots I can tell you exactly where you'll find marauders: Ninja Ratting in a belt near you, cloaking and logging just like ravens do now.

No changes implemented to curb that, and these ships just play right into it.

milao sung
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:39:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
This is what you all have been waiting for, the new Tech II ships coming in Trinity! There are Electronic Attack Ships, Heavy Interdictors, Black Ops and Marauders and stats for them all. Please go read New Tech 2 Ships for Trinity, then come back here and post your feedback, remember to be constructive. Wink



Remember to be constructive ?Evil or Very Mad
How about go away and try again , we have time

Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Patria o Muerte
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:41:00 - [285]
 

Baaah want new ship models

Otherwise cool

Tal

Ma Zhiqiang
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:44:00 - [286]
 

Seems like many of the ships are getting cross racial bonuses...

These seem to be the traditional bonuses:

Amarr - armor resist bonus, laser damage/cap need, cap increase, tracking disr bonus, energy emission bonus
Caldari - shield resist bonus, hybrid range bonuses, ecm bonus
Gallente - armor rep amount bonus, hybrid tracking/damage, warp jamming bonus
Minmatar - shield boost bonus, projectile damage/rof, web bonus

Unless the designers behind these new ship types have "borrowed"
technology from other sources.... . .. . ..

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:46:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Ma Zhiqiang
Seems like many of the ships are getting cross racial bonuses...

These seem to be the traditional bonuses:

Amarr - armor resist bonus, laser damage/cap need, cap increase, tracking disr bonus, energy emission bonus
Caldari - shield resist bonus, hybrid range bonuses, ecm bonus
Gallente - armor rep amount bonus, hybrid tracking/damage, warp jamming bonus
Minmatar - shield boost bonus, projectile damage/rof, web bonus

Unless the designers behind these new ship types have "borrowed"
technology from other sources.... . .. . ..


Well never played WOW but i heard that Blizz did some swapping between char. classes in horde/alliance (sth abt paladin in horde?). It seems ccp did the same here lol.

Anzig
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:48:00 - [288]
 

I think the cloaking bonus of Black Ops are all wrong, but I'm going to argue a different reason why.

The Stealth Bomber no-targeting-delay after cloak makes these ships too powerful in the afk recon role.

These things are tailor made for harrasment tactics.
You think it's bad now with cloaking recons, just wait until there is a cloaker in system who can insta lock/tackle after de-cloaking.

Imagine cloaking gatecamps where the damage dealers are 140km off and have no penalty to staying cloaked while waiting for a target.
Not only that, but if you show up with something that can tackle it, the BlackOps pilot can have a cyno buddy the next system over and jump out.

Yes, warp-while-cloaked ships in home systems are annoying, but they're nothing on what a dedicated "griefer" could do with one of these things.
They give a prospective target almost no time to react once they decloak.

IMHO, it works for bombers due to their tissue paper tanks and the flight time for cruise missles.

On a turret BS with a BS class tank or sniper fit; the de-cloak, volley, cloak cycle has to take longer to give the opposition a chance to react.

Speaking as a covert pilot, and someone who dispises afk cloakers, give us warp-while-cloaked BlackOps ships.

Warp-while-cloaked turns a BlackOps into the ultimate gatecamp buster.
If one show up 140km off the gate the light, tackle elements of the camp will run or die.
The sensor recalibration delay provides a precious few seconds for the camp to react.

You want fewer blobs? Give us warp-while-cloaked.
As it stands no one wants to enter blobed grid due to lag.
A BlackOps with warp-while-cloaked can cyno into a lagged system, then warp onto a grid at 300km knowing that his ship will still be there when it loads.
Watch the blob scatter when he starts picking off smaller ships.

To summarise (TL,DR):
Zero targeting delay is too powerful an ability for BS class hulls used in "grief" tactics.
Warp-while-cloaked is of great tactical use against ships actively engaging in PvP.

Switching from one to the other will reduce their usefulness in "what I hate about cloaking ships" situations and encourge pilots to take them into active PvP.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:51:00 - [289]
 

No target delay = no sensor recalibration time i think. They still take lots of time to acquire lock (thus need sensor boosters). Same as bombers.

BlackKnight1717
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:54:00 - [290]
 

This is just conirmation on how clueless CCP are when it comes to amarr.

The paladin is nothing short of a joke.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:56:00 - [291]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

Now search for those "many amarr players happy about stamina" or "cap control". And tell me how "cap control" helps in mission running/npcing in belts.


I won't argue with you there, in fact I'm of the opinion that the Kronos and Paladin will make decidedly poor mission boats based more on their limited damage types than their bonuses.

I would go so far as to say that the Sin will be the superior mission boat for Gallente players. Missiles and Drones will likely remain the mission runners weapons of choice due to damage flexibility and ease of use.

So yeah, I'm already pretty much convinced these two ships won't be all that great at mission running, not unless CCP introduce the ability to chose what enemies you wish to fight against in missions.

Caya
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.23 21:59:00 - [292]
 

I have finished Amarr BS lvl5 like 4 years ago. Since then iv been waiting for t2 battleships and now i wish i just did not see those stats. If i had the power to do it, i would just send it back to designer, tell him to think harder about them and expect better result in 1 week. I think it is not that hard. Many good comments were already written here.

BlackKnight1717
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:14:00 - [293]
 

Why does the amarr/gallente marauders have so few med/low slots?

Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars
Cosmic Anomalies
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:17:00 - [294]
 

a few questions answered (these are just observations from sisi and may change):

- the Warp Disruption Field Generator I has a radius of 16km and a warp scramble strength of 1
- interceptors get an 80% cap need reduction for propulsion jamming systems.
- the faster type interceptors (ares, raptor, stilletto, malediction) also get a 5%/level range bonus to warp jammer/disruptor range, keeping them well out of the hvy neut zone with a t2 disruptor (max skills on an ares: 30km scram range and 31,25km locking range...)

skill requirements (only highest requirement listed, look up sub-reqs yourselves):
- Electronic Attack Ship: Electronics Upgrades V, Spaceship Command III (+ racial Frigate V)
- Heavy Interdictors Propulsion Jamming V, Weapon Upgrades V, Spaceship Command V (+ racial Cruiser V).
-- Warp Disruption Field Generator: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics IV
- Black Ops: Cloaking IV, Jump Drive Callibration IV, Spaceship Command V (+ racial BS V)
-- Covert Cynosural Field Generator: Cynosural Field Theory V
-- Covert Jump Portal Generator: Jump Portal Generation I
- Marauders: Power Grid Upgrades V, Adv. Weapon Upgrades V, Spaceship Command V (+ racial BS V)

droneship bandwidth/dronebay changes: (shipname | bandwidth | dronebay)

ishkur | 25 | 25+5/lvl <- dps nerf / space boost
vexor | 75 | 100 <- space boost
myrmidon | 75 | 125 <- nerf
eos | 75 | 150+15/lvl <- dps/space nerf!
ishtar | 125 | 125+50/lvl <- unchanged
sentinel | 20 | 60
arbitrator/curse/pilgrim | 50 | 150 <- dps nerf / big space boost
typhoon/panther | 125 | 175 <- space boost

notes: i was expecting Interdictors IV as a prerequisite for the hvy dictor and Recon Ships IV as a prerequisite for Black Ops. I also expected the Covert Cyno Field Gen to be a t2 item. i didnt expect them to nerf the eos that hard. especially when not changing the ishtar. sentinel having a bigger drone bay than the ishkur comes somewhat unexpected as well. to say the least Rolling Eyes

Gunship
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:22:00 - [295]
 

what about some new ship designs, rather than just re-use old ones?

Vitaki
Rens 911
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:23:00 - [296]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
None of the new ships will ever be totally unprofitable to invent; people will just have to expect to pay a premium for the ones that are not so much in demand, or possibly ask someone to build them to order.
What, your wrong here. The datacore prices could push things up high enough that unless your inventing one of the best ships, the crap ships will have to be the same cost, but if no one will buy at that price for a pos your going to loose money when you try to sell it.

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:27:00 - [297]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.

Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.



Its not that much tbh. I did my shopping today, abt 900mil for 10x invention job (+9 run decryptors). So after 4 t2 BS sold you should start getting invested iskies back (and thats with LOW BS prices).


If you don't think invention materials are going to get more expensive, then you're deluding yourself. Some people hoarding decryptors and cores now are going to make a killing when Rev 3 goes live.

BlackKnight1717
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:29:00 - [298]
 

I think the tech II geddon might outperform the tech II apoc at ratting.

Both have the same turret DPS.
Both use the same ammount of cap for weapons.
Extra low slot for cap relay makes up for 25% cap bonus on apoc.

Then the one single difference is the 7.5% rep bonus vs the extra drone dmg of the geddon. So if whatever your doing is not too hard to tank the geddon will outperform it.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:30:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans
Guessing all these will be invention-only, will the drops in hacking exploration sites be increased once they're removed from the farmable Cosmos areas? Decryptor prices are going to skyrocket, especially when people are going to lose a LOT of datacores each time a battleship invent fails.

Frankly, I think with this many ships intended for everyday use, the BPOs should be seeded to the R&D agents, or else there won't be enough supply and invention overhead plus demand is going to make capitals look cheap in comparison.



Its not that much tbh. I did my shopping today, abt 900mil for 10x invention job (+9 run decryptors). So after 4 t2 BS sold you should start getting invested iskies back (and thats with LOW BS prices).


If you don't think invention materials are going to get more expensive, then you're deluding yourself. Some people hoarding decryptors and cores now are going to make a killing when Rev 3 goes live.



Thats why:
1. i know cheap sources
2. i bought quite a lot in advance (atm abt 2-4bil in cores/decryptors)
3. im runing my rnd agents

Also the so called "killing" passed already. Mech.eng. cores are slowly stabilising, the times when you could sell em for 3-4mil/piece already passed. Same for decryptors, sorry :)

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:31:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: BlackKnight1717
I think the tech II geddon might outperform the tech II apoc at ratting.

Both have the same turret DPS.
Both use the same ammount of cap for weapons.
Extra low slot for cap relay makes up for 25% cap bonus on apoc.

Then the one single difference is the 7.5% rep bonus vs the extra drone dmg of the geddon. So if whatever your doing is not too hard to tank the geddon will outperform it.


Lol. And that says it all tbh. Tier 1 "covops bs" is better in NPCing that "npcing BS".


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