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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:11:00 - [691]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2007 18:14:23
Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2007 18:13:27
Originally by: Larole
Low sec mother ships have and will continued to be killed with nos nutrulizing battle ships. same as in 0.0.


If

ArrowMOM pilot is prepared to sit on a gate for several weeks smartbmobing without an emergancy cyno and ignore attempts to catch him

and

ArrowMOM pilot is not running scouts

and

ArrowA corp with a lot of players spend several weeks planning and organising a gank.

and

ArrowSaid Corp brings in a bunch of their own nigh on invincible low sec MOMS to help kill it

Then yes - once in a blue moon a MOM will die.

The proposed drone nerf is a little bit ridiculous granted, but MOMs in lowsec are monstrously overpowered and the DEVS are right to look at them. Banning them from lowsec is the OBVIOUS and much cried out for option. Its simple and efficent.

Leave carriers alone though. As much as I hate the idiots who jump them in to gank a frigate - They can and dodie in low sec.

Also to all you dummy spitting community member threatening to quit now something effecting you. I remind you of all the previous ludicrous Nerfs you sat silent on and say HA!

SKUNK



Sephron Kintaka
Genbuku.
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:12:00 - [692]
 

I'm afraid I have to side against this as well. Capital and Supercapital pilots, as well as their alliances, spend A LOT of money on their ships. And what they get in return is the ability to use as many fighters and drones as they've trained so hard to use. If that is taken away, these capitals will be turned into little more than Domis with way too many hitpoints. If you look at the statistics, people have been coming up with more and more creative ways of killing capitals and supercapitals (e.g. MS killed in lowsec). Motherships are not the uber deathbringer, but they are the uber logisticsbringer. They still rely very much on their support so long as their in 0.0. Now, low sec is a whole 'nother story. The only imbalance I see is when a MS sits on a gate in low sec with smartbombs running. YARRRR!!

That's my two cents. Hope it was constructive. :)

Happy Trader
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:13:00 - [693]
 

I can see a tendence of stupid changes lately. The anti blob changes with cyno jammers were a big wtf experience. The bombers as anti blob warfare tool get 8 out of 10 at the funny scale too. But this is definatly the best so far. you devs got my respect. If you go crazy and ruin something then ruin it for good!

Wikka
Mosquito Squad
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:13:00 - [694]
 

Edited by: Wikka on 21/10/2007 18:15:01
Idea heres one hopefuly not a nerf too far

Give all drones a launch rate !

Thus an established carrier can use all its drones but a newly arriving carrier would have to build its swarm up. Thus stopping the insta(ish) gank people complain of.

Alongside the differing drone launch speeds; Differing drone boats would have differing launch rates providing a little more variance to the system and give the pilot launching a tactical decision of 'do I launch a quick wave of light drones or can i launch fighters in time to be effective.

Additionaly this would help to prevent lag spikes caused by mass fighter deployment. Provide another skill for the drone boat pilots to accomplish and oppertunity for some extra useful rigs or modules to be added.

Thus the issue is solved without a major nerf making carriers useless.....

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:13:00 - [695]
 

The most stupid change ever.

agent apple
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:15:00 - [696]
 

Carriers are fine, if you think carriers are solo pwnmobiles please cyno your carrier into space uncloaked and away from a station or pos and Fraps for one hour.

Motherships are overnerfed already though they should be able to be scrambled in low sec, wrong nerf for the wrong problem.

5 fighters with skills/DCU's affecting damage instead of number controlled would be fine.

Perhaps you made an oversight when looking at these ships as they currently do the DPS of two battleships (im being generous here) they also die in less than 2m of exchanged fire when found.

No nerfbat but please return the crack pipe.

Blitter
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:18:00 - [697]
 

That's the worst idea I think I've heard coming from CCP in a while.

It does nothing to fix lag, while it:

1) makes a carrier/ms pilot's job assigning drones an absolute pain in the ass.
2) makes repair drones and other logistics drones useless
3) leaves these expensive ships virtually defenseless.

Please go back to the drawing board on this one.

RazorCRO
Caldari
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:19:00 - [698]
 

I never really post things around here. But this one i just cant pass. It's not that i think anyone will really care what i think about this topci, it just to take it off my chest..

Yes....carriers and Motherships do need to be changed.
Is this good way? No. This is worst change CCP every proposed.

If i spend 6 months training for a ship, and than spend few bils on ship and equipment, i DO WANNA WTFPWN battleship! It's friggin CARRIER!!! Do you even know how real carrier looks like and what does it do?

I'm so happy i never really started training carriers, and if this change comes trough, i never will. No big deal for me. But tose guys that spend months and months for training and than ****load of ISK for carriers/equipment/motherships....wtf will they do? I guess just close accounts and start plain wow or something...

Oh yeah. If you go trough with this changes, i guess it's fair that you remove name Carrier (couse they wont be carriers anymore) and rename em to drone logistic ship or sonmething like that. Low down skill requirements, and ISK price and everyone will be happy...

With this changes Carrier couldt kill anything solo...it's just stupid and without of any logic.

And CCP, pls....give back old job to Zulupark and hire someone else to work on this kind of stuff.

MastaRob
Caldari
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:21:00 - [699]
 

/signed on getting MS out of low sec

But re-iterate whats been said a thousand times now, worst nerf I have heard aired since I started playing

Sinner aint'no'Saint
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:24:00 - [700]
 

Sorry, someone actually paid you to come up with this idea? This is atrocious. "hey guys i figured it out!!!! lets send a 40b isk ship out with absolutely no defenses so that a single dictor can pin it down and slowly kill off its light drones 5 at a time while waiting for backup to arrive to pop said 40b isk sink!!!" I really hope u got a promotion for that.

This is completely impractical and incredibly lame. Carriers and Moms sole purpose in game is front line logistics and fighter support. Sure, a mom can drop a single BS pretty fast once its locked and pinned down but tell me how making a single bs able to tank a mom is going to help at all, because effectively You've left moms hanging, like u did with titans. What are the advantages to being vet players again? So people can sit at a POS and look at really pretty scenery? thanks for nothing....


Cosmo Raata
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:24:00 - [701]
 

Shocked

If its lag you are worried about CCP then reduce the amount of drones & inversely increase damage & hitpoints to compensate it.

e.g. Motherships can control 10 max, carriers 5 but the damage/hit points is equivalent to 20 & 10. Easy fix.



If this is about difficulty to kill in fleets, then nerf remote repping to ensure easier deaths.

e.g. Motherships retain ability to use Capital Reps, Carriers do not.



There are also tons of other things to do to make Motherships more attractive/better, which is what people have been asking for all along.

e.g. Capital Neuts, Capital Smartbombs, etc... We need more Cowbell Baby!!


So, boost the motherships, nerf the carriers, but dont take away the damage.

Snaut
Minmatar
Beach Boys
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:24:00 - [702]
 

Edited by: Snaut on 21/10/2007 18:25:28
CCP this time you've gone to far.

The sickest nerf idea I've ever seen in my 4 years of playing eve Evil or Very Mad

Its not a nerf its a ROLLBACK Rolling Eyes

If I wished to have a support ship I would have skilled one in 4-5 weeks ... IMHO most people wanted a carrier because of its solo combat and tanking abilities.

If you think its a good idea to completely change the abilities if a ship class which needs 6-12 months skilltime you are wrong.

IT IS TOO LATE FOR SUCH CHANGES

Just listen to the comunity.

Your turn CCP

Kirex
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:25:00 - [703]
 

WHAT THE ****?!

John MacCoy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:26:00 - [704]
 

Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/10/2007 18:27:58
No. Just... no.

Instead of coming up with a MAJOR nerf to the carrier why not bring out something to counter it with.

Cap ships are becoming the new battleships these days so why no just bring out the capital version of a battleship.

Juggernaughts: A large capital ship with 6-8 Capital turret/missile slots. Instead of giving it a siege mode give it a damage bonus per level. Nothing like dreadnaught of course but enough so a few of them together can take out a carrier.

See. You spent alot of time and money coming up with a comepletely terrible idea than absolutely no one like and it took me 5 seconds to come up with something better.

Your move CCP.

CCP Zulu

Posted - 2007.10.21 18:28:00 - [705]
 

Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.

lust slave
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:28:00 - [706]
 

This is typical. You spend months if not years training for a ship and the correct skills that are needed because you like the way it fights and then it gets changed. How many more ships are going to be nerfed? Is a carrier an all mighty doomstick? A BC can tank 10 fighters for several minutes at a time. What is a cap ship that can't use it full potential? And a mothership pilot that can only use 5 of his fighters at a time? Dear god what's next? Should we limit the amount of missles a raven can have in flight at one time? If anything the carrier is underpowered for the cost and time invested.

But what they hey lets nerf some more.

John MacCoy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:30:00 - [707]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


I hope you do. I think alot of people wil be very annoyed it you just go "Screw them, we're doing it anyways."

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:30:00 - [708]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


I hope this translates to "perhaps we have not thought this all the way through and though there may be issues with a few uses of motherships in low sec, we need to address that problem rather then broad stroke nerf the entire class all together"

Inturist
FSB-ALFA
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:32:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


Yay , we might be able to use 6 drones instead of 5 Shocked Very Happy

CarboniC
Gallente
Defence Research Technical Advisory Goup
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:32:00 - [710]
 

Hi
Dont do this! A Mothership should be a powerful ship and it should be able to deliver lots of damage. Cutting down its controlable fighters is not the way forward. It a super capital and should remain so, players work very hard to obtain this type of ship, it must remain special!!

If you were to use this balance solution it will render this ship weak, market prices will fall rapidly and takes away the special element about owning a super capital.

If need be ban them from low sec or prevent them from using drones / fighters in low sec. Oh BTW how can the mass of a few battleships be able to knock an MS from its warp direction? The mass of a Mothership in relation to a battleship is massive, it does not make sense that a few BS can be able to do this - this needs sorting out.

CarboniC

Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:36:00 - [711]
 

Edited by: Pesadel0 on 21/10/2007 18:35:43
Originally by: Vuk Lau
The most stupid change ever.


This .

Je'hira Osiris
Minmatar
2plus2isfive
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:37:00 - [712]
 

Once again CCP your ****ing on you older dedicated players...

your taking players that have spen years training up multiple accounts then only using 1/2 the SP and signing that char off to a mothership at the cost off BILLOINS in game time and isk only for them then to sit at a POS while jo - one character - blogs fights and has all the fun..

i think this will cost you in alot of long time players all with more than 4 characters..

For what the ability for some newb to be able to stand up to a mothership... They should be able to kill hundereds of BS's they are worth 100's of bs's... What is wrong with you guys???


Seriya
Caldari
LogiTech Systems
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:37:00 - [713]
 

Generally I like this. However:

- Make fighters considerably cheaper.
and
- Boost carrier / MS scan resolution.
or
- Allow carriers to assign Fighters, but not attack with them, in Triage mode.

Also I'm not sure whether it's necessary to stop them fielding 10 regular drones.

Sinner aint'no'Saint
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:37:00 - [714]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


yeah guys, play with your Motherships and carriers while they are still useful.

Quixess
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:38:00 - [715]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


Then try fixing things that are broken and leave things that work fine.

The only real issue in this thread is lowsec MS ganking.

Je'hira Osiris
Minmatar
2plus2isfive
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:41:00 - [716]
 

Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/10/2007 18:27:58
No. Just... no.

Instead of coming up with a MAJOR nerf to the carrier why not bring out something to counter it with.

Cap ships are becoming the new battleships these days so why no just bring out the capital version of a battleship.

Juggernaughts: A large capital ship with 6-8 Capital turret/missile slots. Instead of giving it a siege mode give it a damage bonus per level. Nothing like dreadnaught of course but enough so a few of them together can take out a carrier.

See. You spent alot of time and money coming up with a comepletely terrible idea than absolutely no one like and it took me 5 seconds to come up with something better.

Your move CCP.


Give john a job and quit!!

Sean Drake
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:41:00 - [717]
 

Ok before I say anything I need to get this out of the way Very Happy

Hi, Im Zulupark and recently transferred from the Quality Assurance department to the Game Design team.

CCP have a QA dept Laughing
What are they going to do with the other guy from QALaughing

I could go on but putting ccp and QA in same post is allways going to get a chuckle and it's to easyEmbarassed

Anyway to the blog 1st things 1st I do not fly cap ships never have never will I saw this coming along time ago and decided not to bother training them I have however flown with and against them many times and do not beleive them to be that much in need of a nerf.

If this is yet another backhand way of trying to reduce lag then I can think of a number of other ways which would be much more practical and deserving of change.

The logistics ships you speak of in the blog are all ready in game ironicly enough called Logistics ships they do everything you mention and are much cheaper.

Hmmm so a well setup Cap/super cap can BBQ a solo Battleship err the problem with that is?
If some nub came on the forums complaing that his Moa got wtfbbq by a Domi 1v1 what would he get told?

Seriously I think it maybe time to move on CCP have reached the point where they start to kill there own game in the name of getting new customers and appeasing the masses

Super Biatch
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:41:00 - [718]
 

Originally by: Angry video game nerd
I think it's a ****load of ****!
Quote:

Xeliya
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:42:00 - [719]
 

Edited by: Xeliya on 21/10/2007 18:43:07

Adding a quick 2 cents here don't have much time but this is such a bad idea. Carriers and Mom's are fine, it is blobs of anything that are not.

If this happens I might as well sell my Carrier and Carrier pilot. Right now everything is fine because without a support fleet you are useless as each target will run away. I don't see where you get the Carriers can fly around without support theory from. Even the famous MC Mom/Carrier Bomb has support in there to tackle stuff.

Next forcing us to assign fighters will make us sit at POS's again. That is **** game play. If anything should change you should remove the ability to assign fighters and add the ability to keep you fighters from following people into warp.

Gyle
Caldari
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.21 18:42:00 - [720]
 

Edited by: Gyle on 21/10/2007 18:46:46
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Thanks for your input guys, there's some interesting points here. We are of course taking all your comments seriously into consideration and will reflect upon it over the next days. We will keep you up to date of our findings, now go enjoy your Sunday night slaughter.


Dude You have to let us have our whine. There is a reason why everyone in this thread is saying NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont do it!!!!!

Personaly you do this and i quit and take 300 people with me. its a terrible idea. lets religate all carrier and mom pilots to the pos and let the noobs in frigs do all the fighting. great idea.

lolza mothership pilots cant get out for thier ships, and with jump freighters they wont be much use for that any more. Just what role exaclty do you think moms have left ccp? Becuase now a mothership pilot is permenantly relegated to spending everywaking hour staring at a pos shield


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