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blankseplocked CCP - Can Dominx, Ishtar & Eos still launch 5 x T2 Ogres?
 
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Caldrion Dosto
Excrutiating Dirge
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:36:00 - [31]
 

Quote:
From Singularity.


If that is true, i really hope iskurs gets bonus to both drone capacity and drone bandwith...


otherwise i wonīt fly one ever again...

CCP Atropos

Posted - 2007.10.23 23:42:00 - [32]
 

The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?

Phoenix Lord
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:43:00 - [33]
 

I guess that pretty much confirms that domi and ishtar is fine... but eos is "nerfed"

Alpine 69
Rubbish Superheroes
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:59:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
can I have some of what you're smoking?


Trade itam 4 gametime? Very Happy


Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:06:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


So why did the Ishkur get relegated to only being able to use 5 lite drones? I don't recall anyone ever *****ing about the Ishkur being over-powered but it has received a nice knock with the nerf hammer regardless.

Oratu
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:09:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Ridley Tree
Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


So why did the Ishkur get relegated to only being able to use 5 lite drones? I don't recall anyone ever *****ing about the Ishkur being over-powered but it has received a nice knock with the nerf hammer regardless.


Its a friking frigate mate...should never have been able to use medium drones..

Bacci Galu
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:10:00 - [37]
 

about fa_rk_ing time they hit the eos with the bat...

good riddince to solo eos gatecampers...

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:10:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Phoenix Lord

Maybe you like the sleipnir more for other reasons? maybe you already had more minnie skills? maybe you didnt want to train for hybrids and drones?

Theres a ton of reasons... Not everyone flies the ship that is overpowered at the time.. Just because you dont fly a ship, doesnt mean it sucks..

EDIT: Also note i never said the Eos was actually overpowered. I just said CCP doesnt like ships that can solo (aka do everything, tank and DPS, etc etc)


Trust me, im more gallante spec then anything else, and ive flown the eos a lot in the past, but its really not as good a ship as ppl claim it is

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:12:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ridley Tree
Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


So why did the Ishkur get relegated to only being able to use 5 lite drones? I don't recall anyone ever *****ing about the Ishkur being over-powered but it has received a nice knock with the nerf hammer regardless.

Perhaps an exploit where a dominix could launch 5 heavy drones, abandon them, thus allowing the Ishkur to scoop and launch each individual heavy drone until he was controlling all 5? Not quite proper for a frigate to have battleship DPS.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:15:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
can I have some of what you're smoking?

Sure, just come on over, but tbh i prefer drinkingWink


Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


And no, ive never seen a problem with the eos's dps, ive always seen it the other way, that its the other fleet commands that has issues and should be fixed.
And btw, please show me a working pvp setup that gives the eos more dps then the astarte.

Caldrion Dosto
Excrutiating Dirge
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:16:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
Its a friking frigate mate...should never have been able to use medium drones..



Itīs still an assult frigate specialized in drones.


It now get a substantial cut in dps, WHY?

Itīs now no point in flying it, better take an enyo and have that extra low slot and field 5 guns and a launcher.

CCP just killed a ship.


I think the nerfbats should be put back in the cabinet for a while...

Kelevraen
Caldari
Heavy Aerospace Industrial
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:17:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Kelevraen on 24/10/2007 00:22:19
I've been flying an Eos for several months now, and it really isn't as powerful as people claim. It's powerful for sure, but other command ships can beat it. I've been stomped many times by battleships in one vs one situations. And likewise I've done my own stomping. It's not a solopwnmobile, it's just really good. People just fail to realize what a well skilled near-max pilot is like in a good ship :)

edit:

A full neutron twin-magstab Astarte does more dps than an Eos with the same setup AND 5 t2 ogres. I fail to see where the eos beats an astarte in dps. It just comes close, within 150 or so, which is still significant difference.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:17:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Caldrion Dosto
Quote:
Its a friking frigate mate...should never have been able to use medium drones..



Itīs still an assult frigate specialized in drones.


It now get a substantial cut in dps, WHY?

Itīs now no point in flying it, better take an enyo and have that extra low slot and field 5 guns and a launcher.

CCP just killed a ship.


I think the nerfbats should be put back in the cabinet for a while...

Then just quit already and stop clogging up the forums with your inane whining.

Caldrion Dosto
Excrutiating Dirge
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:18:00 - [44]
 

Quote:
Perhaps an exploit where a dominix could launch 5 heavy drones, abandon them, thus allowing the Ishkur to scoop and launch each individual heavy drone until he was controlling all 5? Not quite proper for a frigate to have battleship DPS.
----------------



And the ship canīt warp etc when he does that... (still could be fixed by other means i guess, like putting bandwith at 40)

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:19:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?



I don't think it's wrong, because all fleet commands are basically awful in their supposed real role, which is gang boosting. The bonus to the gang mods is so small that it effectively has no purpose. You can do just as well of a job with a myrmidon and some command processors. In fact, if you have the approprite (overpowered) implant, far better than the (underpowered) fleet command with the bonus. When you then take into account that any time you go into warp the gang mods instantly shut off, this just adds insult to injury.

Eos was the best of a bad lot, you nerfed the only useful one instead of boosting the others.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:21:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Kai Lae
Eos was the best of a bad lot, you nerfed the only useful one instead of boosting the others.

very well said

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:22:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Perhaps an exploit where a dominix could launch 5 heavy drones, abandon them, thus allowing the Ishkur to scoop and launch each individual heavy drone until he was controlling all 5? Not quite proper for a frigate to have battleship DPS.
That explains why bandwidth is being implemented, but not why the ishkur is having its fieldable drones reduced by bandwidth.

Also, 5 heavies is not BS dps, unless you're a week old noob fitting heavy launchers to a raven. Are you a week old noob Tarminic?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:24:00 - [48]
 

wait... the EOS is a FLEET command ship?

oh never mind then.
it should be running 3 gang bonuses.
thus 5 guns is fine.

it sounds like it had so much more dps than a fleet command ship that it wasn't one.

Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:31:00 - [49]
 

While I agree that the Eos was rather crazy in its ability to dish out damage relative to other fleet command ships, the fact remains that nobody used it as a gang warfare link ship because information warfare links are really subpar. Unlike the other three classes of warfare links which just about everybody can benefit from to some degree, two of the three info warfare links are only good for ships that happen to have ewar fitted, so they're extremely specialized and usually not present in enough numbers to warrant gang links for them (unless you're designing a gang around sensor damps or something...), while the sole "non-specialist" Info Warfare link - the sensor strength one - might've been particularly useful back in the old days of uber ECM, but nowadays it's really not a huge deal. Compare this to, say, the Skirmish Warfare series, which is universally loved because (A) just about every PvP-fitted ship out there worth its salt has a MWD on it, (B) sig radius reductions are undeniably useful and hard to come by, and (C) longer tackle range is just a fantastic thing to have around.

This is why you actually see ganglinked Claymores & Damnations about. Ganglinked Vultures are a bit rarer due to the relative paucity of active shield tankers in PvP, but even armor tankers can get a little benefit out of the shield resist link. Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever seen a ganglinked Eos. Ever. I'm not even sure if I know anybody who has the Info Warfare Specialist skill trained up any real amount, actually... Confused

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:36:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Cadiz
TRUTH


This is the answer - the eos doesn't get used for linking because it is the worst linking fleet command.

Now it has absolutely nothing to recommend it unless the only cruiser you have to 5 is Gallente.

Give us useful links and we'll use them - taking away a good thing so that subpar things look more appealing wouldn't fool a 5 year old...

Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:43:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Cadiz on 24/10/2007 00:48:01
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Cadiz
TRUTH


This is the answer - the eos doesn't get used for linking because it is the worst linking fleet command.

Now it has absolutely nothing to recommend it unless the only cruiser you have to 5 is Gallente.

Give us useful links and we'll use them - taking away a good thing so that subpar things look more appealing wouldn't fool a 5 year old...

Yep. It had the worst gang links and the least impressive tank of all the fleet commands, but at least it had awesome damage output, so people liked it. While I'm not terribly surprised about the drone nerf, I have to say that gutting its turret hardpoints as well was just a cruel, cruel blow considering the current usefulness of its gang links. Now, compared to its compatriots, it's not that much better DPS-wise, has the worst tank, and has the worst links. :(

But hey, it's got that little spinny thing on its "chin". That's got to count for something, right?

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.10.24 01:03:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Cadiz
Edited by: Cadiz on 24/10/2007 00:48:01
Originally by: SN3263827
Originally by: Cadiz
TRUTH


This is the answer - the eos doesn't get used for linking because it is the worst linking fleet command.

Now it has absolutely nothing to recommend it unless the only cruiser you have to 5 is Gallente.

Give us useful links and we'll use them - taking away a good thing so that subpar things look more appealing wouldn't fool a 5 year old...

Yep. It had the worst gang links and the least impressive tank of all the fleet commands, but at least it had awesome damage output, so people liked it. While I'm not terribly surprised about the drone nerf, I have to say that gutting its turret hardpoints as well was just a cruel, cruel blow considering the current usefulness of its gang links. Now, compared to its compatriots, it's not that much better DPS-wise, has the worst tank, and has the worst links. :(

But hey, it's got that little spinny thing on its "chin". That's got to count for something, right?


Not only all this, but the basic premise of having a fleet command ship using short range weapons (blasters and drones) is backwards too...fleet command ships should be at range, not in the enemies face shouting hey, look at me, you really need to kill me first.

The EOS needs not only better links, but a redesign into long range rail platform. Astarte should be the blaster/drone platform, that it basically already is.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.10.24 01:17:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


thats not crazy, thats gallente!

Cool

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.24 05:24:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Cadiz


Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever seen a ganglinked Eos. Ever. I'm not even sure if I know anybody who has the Info Warfare Specialist skill trained up any real amount, actually... Confused


There are suckers like me who do use it with gangmods, and who even have info warfare spec 5. However, it STILL doesn't change the fact that not only is the Eos in it's supposed role crap, pretty much all fleet commands in this role are crap. What you get from having these skills:

Information warfare spec 5
Warfare link spec 5
Command ships 4

Is a 16.8% boost on a 2% module. Now, if you were to use a T1 BC, you'd get 14% on a 2% module - the ship bonus gives you a total of 2.8% difference. This is pretty much not even worth mentioning. If I wanted to train command 5, it would be 17.3% - so the difference, with max skills, would be 3.3%. That's 2 rank 6 skills and 1 rank 5 skill, for 3.3%. I challenge anyone anywhere in the game to find something similarly dismal.

So now the Eos was nerfed at the one thing it was good at, which was being used as a garden variety combat ship, and it still hasn't been fixed at what it was supposed to be good at, which was boosting gangs. There are people out there who would like to use these ships in roles that they're supposed to be good for, but unfortunately numbers don't lie and there is absolutely no reason to do so currently.

Neslo
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.10.24 06:13:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


err... we're making everything equivalent?... why do we have 4 races again *scratches head*...

oh... and yes I've got my FC char trained to Leadership 5... in everything (info, skrim, seige, and armor 14m sp)... and she gives much more than the figures being thrown around here... please stop guessing. When she's got the information warefare links in the head.... the amounts go as high as 33%

Irebura
A Little Irony
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:00:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


i do not like this idea. since the fleet command ships were introduced many of us have been saying that the eos was overpowered. now you agree it was INMENSELY overpowered. how did you not notice it before introducing them? i mean, i havent flown any command ship ever, yet i can perfectly say, just by looking at stats (7 bonused guns, bigger than life dronebay) that it is not in the same league as the other fleet command ships.

it just amazes me so much that is has taken so long for CCP to either:
a) realize it was overpowered

and/or

b) nerf it

i repeat, it is quite disturbing to think that you introduce ships INMENSELY overpowered without noticing, and than then it takes many months for you to fix them, even after many many many threads advertising you.

aquontium
Gallente
Fourth Circle
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:34:00 - [57]
 

The Eos is subpar as a fleet command ship which is why it is used as a blaster boat - just because the resists on the astarte make it useless in fleets :). DPS may be theoretically higher but if we fit it with gang mods as CCP suggest, then we have to stay out of range of our guns to keep the tank. At actual fleet distances, the Astarte with those poor-falloff rails......sucks.


Cagot
Spelunkers
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:34:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?

Is that also the rationale for squashing the Myrmidon (same bandwidth as Vexor) and the Ishkur (down to 5 lights)? What's the idea of having a drone bc field the same drones as a drone cruiser? Who thought the Ishkur was overpowered?

And this is all on top of the big drone nerf: no shield healing on scoop.

Some claim that the ability to have some replacement drones makes up for the lack of DPS, but that's not the way it works: if you consider T2 mediums disposable ammunition, you run out of isk.

I must say I'm starting to like the idea that we should get to rebalance our skill points when there's a major ship rebalance.

aquontium
Gallente
Fourth Circle
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:41:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


It can't outdamage it in an 'equivalent setup', nor in a 'small gang setup', nor in a 'solo pvp' setup. Quit smoking?

Overpowered? Worst tank of any fleet command ship, least useful boosters, and if you double-rep it, which you need to do for it to compare at all to the shield tankers/damnation, then you........oh, wait. You can't fit good guns and its DPS plummets.

Atropos, CCP.......what are you smoking. If it'll let me see the Eos as immensely overpowered, I want some. A nerf if the DPS is overpowered came from the drones, losing two turrets makes it useless.

Gabriel Magnar
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:41:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Cypress Cavalero
Edited by: Cypress Cavalero on 23/10/2007 21:27:29
compare the eos/astartes to a nighthawk:(, it should loose a drone fly caldari in pvp then whine about the nerfbat. bout time the mrym suffered too



Sure, if they buff Gallente tank and make them viable at long range I'm ok with that. Oh and no more insane cap use on blasters, kthx!


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