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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:37:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
The main reason we charge more in EUR is the VAT


VAT is 25% maximum... so...


Quote:
the reason the difference is so high is that the USD has weakened since the price was set.


In the last six months the USD:EUR exchange rate has varied by a total of 5 cents. Are you saying that the 5 cents per dollar over the last 6 months has resulted in an extra 15% price difference?

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:40:00 - [62]
 

As I said in a previous thread, the comparisons of price in € and $ are really quite pointless.
What ultimately matters is the ISK value of the payments to CCP.
I worked it out in the last thread about this, but it wasn't much.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:42:00 - [63]
 

price was set more than 6 months ago troll

please to be getting out from under my bridge yes?

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:49:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
price was set more than 6 months ago troll


I'm not trolling.

You have to go back to just about the creation of the Euro as a currency to get enough of a difference to account for the extra discount americans get. Then you simply have to ask yourself why CCP are reluctant to charge all their customers the same amount. What is preventing them from simply charging all customers in euros and letting their respective banks sorting out the conversions?

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:51:00 - [65]
 

how about the headache of adjusting it daily?

seriosuly unless they switched all payments to one currency (a good way to lsoe subscribes) its simply easier to set a price and keep it there

Kirja
R.U.S.H
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.17 16:04:00 - [66]
 

Ok!

The VAT rate in Estonia is 18%. The USD/EURO exchange rate is 1.42 to 1. My calculator says that we pay 16.44% more than US customers even after VAT deducted. Or 42% more VAT included.

An average disposable income in US (according to some random website on the net) is 2617 USD per month. An average disposable income in Estonia is 900 USD per month.

Average Estonian should work 3 hours 46 minutes to pay EvE subscription. Average American should work 54 minutes to pay EvE subscription.

Talk about unfair world order Evil or Very Mad.

We should tolerate this no more! TO ARMS COMRADES!

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.17 16:10:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Elmicker on 17/10/2007 16:10:35
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
how about the headache of adjusting it daily?


Banks will happily do this for you. Try buying something in another currency through paypal. They'll offer to convert the currency for you, or charge you in the original currency and let your bank deal with it. Hell, they'll even charge you the correct amount of VAT while they're at it.

Quote:
its simply easier to set a price and keep it there


Easier, yes, but loses a good chunk of income from the subscribers who use that currency, and establishes an unfair 2-tier payment system.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.10.17 16:18:00 - [68]
 

not really, you can still pay in a different currency via gtc's

Sean Dillon
Caldari
Surreal corp
Posted - 2007.10.17 17:03:00 - [69]
 

Same with other stuff like psp3, in us a version costs 400$ in eu it just costs 400€ its pure rip off just to make more money out europeans and ccp know it.

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.10.17 17:05:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
not really, you can still pay in a different currency via gtc's


According to EU directives, non-eu businesses selling digital commerce services to EU residents are required to collect the VAT on behalf of the resident. AFAIK, none of the USD GTC sellers provide this service, so buying them is deep into a legal grey area.

EvE Justice
Gallente
The Ancient Race
Posted - 2007.10.17 17:14:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Maybe its got something to do with who u bought the accounts off ?


If this is about me and my accounts .. I am the Original Owner on all of them ... and very proud off :)





Terminus adacai
Caldari
Racey Bee
Posted - 2007.10.17 21:13:00 - [72]
 

Regardless of what the dollar is worth in your country, it is still a dollar here. We Americans do not get adjusted salaries based on the value of the euro, contrary to your belief. $14.95 is still $14.95 to us.


F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.17 21:44:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Andrue
Edited by: Andrue on 17/10/2007 15:36:44
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Nofonno
I would like someone from U.S.A. to set me straight here… Is there no VAT in U.S.A. or do you take your little credit card receipt, calculate your tax and pay it at the end of a fiscal year, perhaps?

However, I must pose this question: why aren't we all paying in ISK (Íslenska kronor)? Cool



No, we don't have VAT. It's a silly thing you Euros have added to make purchasing things on the Interweb more complicated and costly.
Your either woefully ignorant or being deliberately assinine.

VAT is just a form of sales tax. Almost every state in America levies tax. As does the county and sometimes the town. The only difference is that for some weird reason you leave it off the price label so that it comes as a nasty surprise when you actually reach the checkout..oh and you apparently don't charge it for online services..yet.




Exactly. We're currently not taxed for online services. Hopefully this will not change anytime soon.

So, neither really.

Jamie Hara
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.17 21:49:00 - [74]
 

Does the VAT/tax go to the icelandic government, the EU or to the country you live in?

Thank you.

Doppler Shift
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.17 23:31:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Elmicker
What is preventing them from simply charging all customers in euros and letting their respective banks sorting out the conversions?


The desire to maximize profits. In fact, they'd probably lose more customers by requiring one specific currency than they would by doubling the price -- why make a product/service more difficult to purchase than it needs to be?

More to the point, why should it even bother you what method or price people in entirely different economies pay to play? It doesn't affect you -- beyond the fact that you choose to strengthen the dollar by paying for 2 accounts in the US's sovereign currency rather than that of your own nation and could be evading local VAT in the process (either or both of which may be illegal where you live).

HAMTRONIX
do you
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.10.17 23:55:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: HAMTRONIX on 17/10/2007 23:59:07
Quote:
It's currently not allowed for states to set a tax on online goods/services


This is qute untrue, while it's not collected at the time of sale, businesses and individuals are required to remit use tax to their state for purchases made via the internet/mail order/800 numbers etc etc. This does not include services, only tangible goods.

This is true for most states in the union that have sales tax, the few states that do not of course do not require this to be paid. Enforcement of this "use tax" is largely non existant and is up to the business owner or individual to remit payment.

On the other side, a business may provide a list to a taxing authority of customers, the authority may compare this list with taxpayers who have remitted and will go after those who have not.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2007.10.18 00:06:00 - [77]
 

This thread highlights the limited thinking of global taxation schemes, and companies dealing with them more than anything else.

Just buy ETC in USD, they're cheaper than any other option, and you can use PayPal, which is not a service CCP offers. Shattered Crystal Ftw.




Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2007.10.18 00:53:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Nofonno
I would like someone from U.S.A. to set me straight here… Is there no VAT in U.S.A. or do you take your little credit card receipt, calculate your tax and pay it at the end of a fiscal year, perhaps?

However, I must pose this question: why aren't we all paying in ISK (Íslenska kronor)? Cool



<speculation>
As far as I know, if you live in Europe, you must pay the VAT tax. Even if you are paying for your account in USD, you are responsible for paying the VAT tax associated with it. In other words, if you are paying in USD, you are avoiding the VAT tax which I presume is illegal.
</speculation>

Taxes in the US (by no means a complete description). In the US, we have essentially 3 taxes that normal people have to worry about:
Federal Taxes
State Taxes
Local Taxes (city).

Federal Taxes are based off of your income, ie the more money you make, the more money you pay to the federal government (the US as a whole).

State Taxes are based off of your expenditures, a sales tax. IE, the more money you spend, the more you pay the *state* government. For example, in Michigan, we pay a 6% sales tax on most items (some things like groceries are not taxed).

Local Taxes are based off of property owned. IE, the more things you own, the more money you pay the city and/or county.

Atraxy
Minmatar
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.10.18 00:54:00 - [79]
 

Yup Im in the UK but I ether pay in USD or time cards, currently the exchange rate is great for UK players effectively making the game half price.

Darkwolfi
Posted - 2007.10.18 03:32:00 - [80]
 

What one must ask themselves, how does this affect GTC selling worldwide.. i mean how many would pay 15 euro for a 30 day gtc when they can buy the same for 15 USD?

How many idiots are really buying euro time codes on the web? i see a big list of european sites but who the hell would buy those when it's 40% more expensive?

On another note, thinking of this from CCP's side of view.

If people buying USD time codes doesn't undermine CCP's profits, why is this not advertised more broadly for their customers, or are these 15-30% profits on each subscription just money you want to put in your pocket without bad conscience?
I understand we europeans must be more wealthy than the americans since we apparently can afford to pay much more YARRRR!!

Eval B'Stard
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.10.18 03:56:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Eval B''Stard on 18/10/2007 03:59:30
All I know is that in the UK VAT collection is the responsibility of the Vendor (And only those vendors that are VAT registered which requires you to have a turnover in excess of around £45000 / year) (this also gives them the luxury of claiming back any VAT they PAY on goods / services they purchase) It is a very very complicated system.

It is not the responsibility of the purchaser to worry about VAT and is not illegal to avoid paying VAT, it is illegal for the vendor to not charge VAT.

Technically we should not be able to buy GTC's from $ vendors but it's impossible to police / enforce goods supplied by email (which GTC's are) and it's not considered that big an issue currently.

The point is you are not breaking any laws by purchasing GTC's in $'s / the Vendor is.

Kirja
R.U.S.H
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.18 09:25:00 - [82]
 

Another point is that if CCP is charging VAT on behalf of EU member states then it is supposed to charge each customer according to his country of residence VAT rate.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/e-commerce/article_1610_en.htm#16rate

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.10.18 09:47:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Kirja
Another point is that if CCP is charging VAT on behalf of EU member states then it is supposed to charge each customer according to his country of residence VAT rate.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/e-commerce/article_1610_en.htm#16rate


No, they can nominate a "resident" country, and charge all their VAT at that rate.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.10.18 09:54:00 - [84]
 

no you pay the rat of VAT of the country that you buy it from - not where you are

Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:03:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 18/10/2007 10:04:45
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 18/10/2007 10:04:15
I buy with euros on the site because it's illegal to evade paying the VAT... and because my income allows it.

However, as said before, banks happily let people not care about price and ajust prices automatically, even charging the correct VAT in the process.

So the reason why CCP charges more for european is that they are true to eve, they scam us.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Eval B'Stard

The point is you are not breaking any laws by purchasing GTC's in $'s / the Vendor is.

You are responsible for paying VAT and duty on any goods that you import into the country.

However Her Majesties Revenue and Customs officers allow a certain leeway on this. You don't have to pay if the VAT due is less than £18 and the duty is less than £7.

So, unless you are funding a war using GTCs, you won't have to pay anything to the government.

The relevant page on the HM Revenu & Customs website is here

Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:44:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Andrue

It'd be nice to think that everyone who played this game would be willing to give CCP the money they ask for - but after 41 years I'm not too surprised to note that a number of people don't give a damn.



personnally as your bog standard user from the uk you are presented with 2 choices... pay in USD for a ETC or pay in EUR via cc.... mm let me see, one saves me in excess of £40 per year (or $80) compared to the other... which is the logical choice?

And as for the quote above - yes i agree that in certain circumstances paying that little extra helps out and improves the game but from the looks of things CCP isnt exactly sellin the shirts off their backs now are they?

Oh - as well just FYI - it isnt necessarily about ppl not giving a damn, unfortunately due to the world we live in there are many people who would class a saving of this amount as a potentially crucial (sp) financial saving which allows them to play eve for longer periods of time... long term b2c relationships at a reduced cost are potentially more worthwhile for the company than expensive short term ones :-)



Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:48:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
If you live in EU you should pay in EUR, if you live outside the EU you should pay in USD


Not entirely correct old chap. Norway is not a part of the EU, but you still charge in € here.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:56:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Kirja
Another point is that if CCP is charging VAT on behalf of EU member states then it is supposed to charge each customer according to his country of residence VAT rate.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/e-commerce/article_1610_en.htm#16rate


No, they can nominate a "resident" country, and charge all their VAT at that rate.
At the moment, yes. The EU are looking at getting rid of that legislation though.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.18 10:58:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 18/10/2007 10:58:51
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
If you live in EU you should pay in EUR, if you live outside the EU you should pay in USD


Not entirely correct old chap. Norway is not a part of the EU, but you still charge in € here.
Norway is within the EEA though. For economic purposes that's the same thing.


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