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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.17 08:56:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Arvald
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Firkragg
1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.


Compared to what? A cruiser?

No, honestly. Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Because I kinda fail to see any reason why it should od any better there.

dual reps 3 hardners enam and 2 heat sinks, mmmmmmm (fyi my mission setup for the moment Very Happy)


You are not answering the question.

Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Your "insane" tank is nothing special at all.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.17 09:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Tiesa
Originally by: Annowyn
Am I the only person that has had their ship melted by a gank armageddon before I could put the cigarette into the ash trey 30 cm away from my hand? Rolling Eyes


Omg, he melted your frig?


Armageddon is high skill dependent, at high skill a geddon melts anything that is not uber tanked. This isnt the problem with amarr. Large pulses are excellent weapons because their range is perfect for pvp. Lasers have high damage as long as its T1 stuff its shooting at, BUT t2 tanks can mostly have such a sick EM tank its no fun with lasers...
Medium and Small lasers dont have good ranges. The pulses are too powerless compared to other weapons in typical pvp ranges and beams suck too bad and are hard to fit in this weapon class.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.17 09:36:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Arvald
Edited by: Arvald on 16/10/2007 20:17:00
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Firkragg
1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.


Compared to what? A cruiser?

No, honestly. Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Because I kinda fail to see any reason why it should od any better there.

dual reps 3 hardners enam and 2 heat sinks, mmmmmmm (fyi my mission setup for the moment Very Happy)


A passive tanked, ie plated and no repper, megathron will melt that tank in 30 secs and you wont even get through half his armor during that time....

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2007.10.17 10:51:00 - [34]
 

lil bit info first about me :D

i started as gallente, specced in there for quite along time.... i can fly gallente commands have t2 heavy drones and med t2 blasters

after a while i trained minmatar, i have recons, commnads, hacs quite hily skilled in there aswell

about a year ago i started one of my alts... she is pure amarr (execpt the caldari industrial 5 :P) she can fly amarr bs, hac, recon, and very soon commands.

what i have noticed is amarr have INSANE tanks.. even compared to gallente whit theyr rep bonus... a absolution can tank better than a damn Eos (my alt can fly absolution on test...) the dmg on abso is very nice... i have never had problems whit doing crap dps... 2x HS and problems are solved :) yes.. it doesnt do as much as astarte whit neutrons.. but i dont have to be 3km away from target and get webbed and die :P

to start whit.. i hade silly cap issues :P thats true.. if ur a new char and use amarr... its quite hard on the cap. as soon as both cap skills hit 4 and controlled burst 4... all things where great tbh :) after nos nerf... my zealot is viable pvp ship again... its a damn good hac.

amarr has issues... but every other race allso... some as much.. some less. amarr t1 cruisers need to be looked at... (who can fit a decent fit on a omen that could do dmg and have decent enough tank like thorax... just doesnt fit or maller.. who fits lasers on a maller :P)
harbonger is great, and allso is the first good ship amarr has thata newby can get into :)
nothing to say about geddon... plate geddon is one of the things i fear most in BS fights(even more than a plate gank mega)

apoc... is broke... needs some love.

abaddon... allso uber....best amarr mission ship ingame tbh and super great in pvp.. can be fitted alot of different ways due to alot of PG.

t2 ships i can only thing of retribution that bit crap in pvp whit its 1 mid slot... pilgrim isnt as uber as before but it can work... i know a few ppl who still pwn the crap out of ppl whit that.

whit new khanid changes, khanid ships have been boosted ALOT... i like the changes.. but my amarr alt doesnt :P 0 sp in missiles...just takes time to get BACK into those ships :D

capitals.... need i say more about titans (amarr one most common.. dunno if now but when theyw here appeareing they where the most common ones). carriers and MS are uber... have good bonuses and great tanks and the Revelation is one of the best POS siege machines :)

amarr isnt BY FAR as nerfed as some ppl say it is.... it needs tweaks and so do other races. makes me all sad that 90% of teh amarr whines are totally clueless...


PS: if i dont make any sense what im writeing.. im sorry... havent slept much due to a party last night.. bit drunk still... and bored at work half asleep :P

Firkragg
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.17 11:50:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Firkragg
1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.


Compared to what? A cruiser?

No, honestly. Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Because I kinda fail to see any reason why it should od any better there.


You appear to have missed the point here. That geddon was a gank setup geddon and yet still manage a more than half decent tank. Geddons even better as a passive tank as it takes advantage of amarr ships naturally better armour amounts (shame its pretty much too slow to roam)

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.10.17 11:55:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Riho
lil bit info first about me :D

i started as gallente, specced in there for quite along time.... i can fly gallente commands have t2 heavy drones and med t2 blasters

after a while i trained minmatar, i have recons, commnads, hacs quite hily skilled in there aswell

about a year ago i started one of my alts... she is pure amarr (execpt the caldari industrial 5 :P) she can fly amarr bs, hac, recon, and very soon commands.

what i have noticed is amarr have INSANE tanks.. even compared to gallente whit theyr rep bonus... a absolution can tank better than a damn Eos (my alt can fly absolution on test...) the dmg on abso is very nice... i have never had problems whit doing crap dps... 2x HS and problems are solved :) yes.. it doesnt do as much as astarte whit neutrons.. but i dont have to be 3km away from target and get webbed and die :P

to start whit.. i hade silly cap issues :P thats true.. if ur a new char and use amarr... its quite hard on the cap. as soon as both cap skills hit 4 and controlled burst 4... all things where great tbh :) after nos nerf... my zealot is viable pvp ship again... its a damn good hac.

amarr has issues... but every other race allso... some as much.. some less. amarr t1 cruisers need to be looked at... (who can fit a decent fit on a omen that could do dmg and have decent enough tank like thorax... just doesnt fit or maller.. who fits lasers on a maller :P)
harbonger is great, and allso is the first good ship amarr has thata newby can get into :)
nothing to say about geddon... plate geddon is one of the things i fear most in BS fights(even more than a plate gank mega)

apoc... is broke... needs some love.

abaddon... allso uber....best amarr mission ship ingame tbh and super great in pvp.. can be fitted alot of different ways due to alot of PG.

t2 ships i can only thing of retribution that bit crap in pvp whit its 1 mid slot... pilgrim isnt as uber as before but it can work... i know a few ppl who still pwn the crap out of ppl whit that.

whit new khanid changes, khanid ships have been boosted ALOT... i like the changes.. but my amarr alt doesnt :P 0 sp in missiles...just takes time to get BACK into those ships :D

capitals.... need i say more about titans (amarr one most common.. dunno if now but when theyw here appeareing they where the most common ones). carriers and MS are uber... have good bonuses and great tanks and the Revelation is one of the best POS siege machines :)

amarr isnt BY FAR as nerfed as some ppl say it is.... it needs tweaks and so do other races. makes me all sad that 90% of teh amarr whines are totally clueless...


PS: if i dont make any sense what im writeing.. im sorry... havent slept much due to a party last night.. bit drunk still... and bored at work half asleep :P


Still its obvious that amarr is missing something. Ok like everyone says "lets not live in EFT and quickfit". I say ok. Just check the statistics on how many amarr ships youll encounter in pvp. Geddon, Abaddon....hmm thats about the only ones i see out there in pvp most of the time. Rest is what? Gallente ships.

Its as simple as this. Every game will auto adapt to balance. People will fly the better ships and just by looking at how often a certain ship/race is flown you can supect balance issues. So lets not live in EFT and just a look at how this game looks like today. kthxbai.

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2007.10.17 13:46:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer


Still its obvious that amarr is missing something. Ok like everyone says "lets not live in EFT and quickfit". I say ok. Just check the statistics on how many amarr ships youll encounter in pvp. Geddon, Abaddon....hmm thats about the only ones i see out there in pvp most of the time. Rest is what? Gallente ships.

Its as simple as this. Every game will auto adapt to balance. People will fly the better ships and just by looking at how often a certain ship/race is flown you can supect balance issues. So lets not live in EFT and just a look at how this game looks like today. kthxbai.


well.. all i said was personal experiance whit amarr... the ships i have acctually tryd and used in pvp. and yes.. the last 2 years i have been pvping you dont see much amarr... but thats because of the NOS.. now nos is BALANCED :P but ppl still bit scared to use amarr shisp.... for amarr ships the rules that cap is life and nos nerfed that. now enemy has to use neuts to be very efective cap nuker and that means they are killing theyr own cap allso.

all im going to say.. this is my view of amarr from the experiance i have gotten from the ships. amarr are fun when you got the skills to back up.

take a look at COWNs videos and tell me again that amarr is nerfed so bad that it doesnt work in pvp :P

N1fty
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2007.10.17 14:15:00 - [38]
 

Whenever I fly my Absolution I always seem to get picked as primary jamming target. Why me when theres other command ships like the Astarte, Nighthawk, and Sleipnir there too?

Always when I enter a fight I get instajammed by a gangs commander. And not just by one ship, I usually have 5 or 6 jamming me.
Once the enemy Ewar is out of the picture and I can get a lock to do some melty melty, I get primaried.
Which is fine, because I have a beasty tank.

Its almost as if people are scared of my ship above all others?

Also take a look here at our killboards is that a Harbinger I see as the most used ship by a VERY large margin?

Jarah Tatarin
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.10.17 14:53:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Annowyn
Am I the only person that has had their ship melted by a gank armageddon before I could put the cigarette into the ash trey 30 cm away from my hand? Rolling Eyes


Makes two of us.


Make that three.

First week I started playing EVE, a guy tells me to tag along to a system he knows. Of course it was a lowsec.

He melted my shield/armor tanked scythe in a matter of seconds :/

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:09:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Firkragg
You appear to have missed the point here. That geddon was a gank setup geddon and yet still manage a more than half decent tank. Geddons even better as a passive tank as it takes advantage of amarr ships naturally better armour amounts (shame its pretty much too slow to roam)


copy-paste:

Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Answer-the-question.

For the active tank amarr BS have no real advantage compared to other armortankers. You can do the "insane" tank with other BS just as well. There is no slot advantage since the geddon needs even with a pulse setup a fitting mod unless he does only want to fit a LAR with no injector and/or MWD.

And Armor HP? Right. A geddon has 6641 base, a dominix 6211. Vive versa in structure. After a DC you have an effective HP difference of *maybe* 5% there. Yes, that sure gives it a massive edge...not.

The "insane" tank of amarr is a myth.

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.10.17 15:10:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Firkragg


You appear to have missed the point here. That geddon was a gank setup geddon and yet still manage a more than half decent tank. Geddons even better as a passive tank as it takes advantage of amarr ships naturally better armour amounts (shame its pretty much too slow to roam)


It didn't look like a gank setup geddon with 2 heatsinks and active hardeners. Looked like a mid-ground setup.

All the gank setups I've seen with Armageddon's usually have plates and 3 or 4 heatsinks.

Balor Haliquin
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.17 16:44:00 - [42]
 

I look away for a day and people start chatting.

As far as the concern over the Amarr supertank is concerned, only 3 ships that are in the Amarr arsinal can pull it off. And they can out tank any Gallente or Caldari ship. I would not say that if I had not had the experience. They are the Abaddon, the Prophecy, and the Absolution. Why these ships? Its easy, they have a lot of low slots and have that nasty little ship bonus that says "5% to all resistances per level". You can get your resistances on the prophecy to the low 80s on average, show me another T1 BC that can pull that off for all of its resistances on one fit. The Abaddon is even better with an average in the high 80s for and omnitank. It out tanks any other mission armor tanker in the game, even the Hyperion. Again I would not make that claim if I could didn't witness it. And finaly the Absolution get into the low 90s with its omni tank. This says nothing for when you tank specific for missions.

Now for PvP I'm kinda lacking in practical experience. So as far as tanking for that I don't know what works and what does not. I do know that a Retribution has a nasty tank on it when you fit the ship properly. Its very hard to kill. and does awesome damage.

As far as issues I would like to point out that all the other major races have a set Ewar specialization; Caldari get ECM, Gallente get Sensor Dampeners, and Minmatar get Tracking Disruptors. There is no ship in the Amarr arsanel that make people go "OMG RUNNS!" when it comes to ewar. I know Amarr get Sensor damps but no Ewar ship that i know of. Might i sugest something radical to CCP. Instead of giving the Amarr an Ewar boat, give them an anti-ewar boat. Yah know a T2 ship with bonuses like 5% per level to eccm effective counter and stuff like that. Make them simply harder to ewar as a whole. That might be a nice little boost for Amarr. Just an idea.

And if anyone has a proven PvP or PvE setup for Amarr ships that they would be willing to share. To help the noobs with dealing with the shock of realizing they chose one of the harder races to skill for and fit.

And remember this important part of flying in eve. Your success is determined by three important parts of the game, Your Characters Skill/Your Skill/Luck. Any one of those can trump the other two.

My PvE Abaddon (Can solo L4s with the proper skills)
Highs
7x Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam Laser I
(Radio L, Standard L, Multifrequincy L)
1x (Hot Swap) could be mission specific mostly a Puls Laser
Mediums
1x Tracking Computer II
1x (Hot Swap) usualy a Cap Recharger II
2x Cap Recharger II
Lows
1x 'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I
1x Explosive Armor Hardener II
1x Kinetic Armor Hardener II
1x Thermic Armor Hardener II
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x Damage Control II (gonna test changing this out for another EANM II)
1x Heat Sink II
Rigs
2x Capacitor Control Ceruite I
1x Auxilery Nano Pump Relay I
Drones
5x Hobgoblin I (For anti-frigate)
5x Hammerhead I (For anti-cruiser)

Hope thats useful for people

PS: i think it would be a good idea if people contributed their complaints and sugestions to make Amarr better. Might be a way to give the devs an idea of what the players think is wrong and get ideas on how to fix it. Just another thought.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.10.17 17:00:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: N1fty
Whenever I fly my Absolution I always seem to get picked as primary jamming target. Why me when theres other command ships like the Astarte, Nighthawk, and Sleipnir there too?

Always when I enter a fight I get instajammed by a gangs commander. And not just by one ship, I usually have 5 or 6 jamming me.
Once the enemy Ewar is out of the picture and I can get a lock to do some melty melty, I get primaried.
Which is fine, because I have a beasty tank.

Its almost as if people are scared of my ship above all others?

Also take a look here at our killboards is that a Harbinger I see as the most used ship by a VERY large margin?



You must be fighting idiots then.

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.17 23:01:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: N1fty
Whenever I fly my Absolution I always seem to get picked as primary jamming target. Why me when theres other command ships like the Astarte, Nighthawk, and Sleipnir there too?

Always when I enter a fight I get instajammed by a gangs commander. And not just by one ship, I usually have 5 or 6 jamming me.
Once the enemy Ewar is out of the picture and I can get a lock to do some melty melty, I get primaried.
Which is fine, because I have a beasty tank.

Its almost as if people are scared of my ship above all others?

Also take a look here at our killboards is that a Harbinger I see as the most used ship by a VERY large margin?



You must be fighting idiots then.


That aside, I have found being amarr you have 3 choices in T1 ships if you don't want to go broke fast. Armageddon (gank), Harbinger (gank), arbi(gallente x-training in progress.)

Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.10.18 02:37:00 - [45]
 

Maby its just me, but I think the Min/Max culture in eve is strange. I fly Minmatar because I am minmatar, but if I were Amarr, I would fly Amarr. Master Amarr first then move to newer things. If Amarr are broken, I would train the skills and win in them.

I remember when Minmatar were the 'crap' race in eve. But I was going to make sure that I would master Minmatar and make minmatar work. Now, I am supposedly flying the uber race - frankly - I don't see the difference.

Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Sp00t
Posted - 2007.10.18 05:44:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
...BUT t2 tanks can mostly have such a sick EM tank its no fun with lasers...


Uhm... I agree if you're shooting at Minmatar T2. Shoot at Gallente T2 (who focus on their Exp hole) and other Amarr and you'll see that EM tends to be lowest or 2nd lowest resistance. Caldari is somewhat random (some plug up that EM hole really well, others not so much).


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