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Exortius Amarrus
Amarr
No.Mercy
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:04:00 - [61]
 

Nicely done.

Future Thing
Gallente
Ninja Warriors of the Round Table
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:25:00 - [62]
 

A refreshing change to most COAD posts, but as much as I love this report it will be interesting to see what the point of these posts are and how it plays out to benefit the alt-owner.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I can't see what anybody would get out of writing this unless there is an ulterior motive.

Patch86
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:31:00 - [63]
 

That was pretty interesting, gj.

Nez Perces
Amarr
Metatron Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:43:00 - [64]
 


Very good and informative overview of this 'great war'. Enjoyable read, and I look forward to your next thread.


Nez Perces
Amarr
Metatron Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:46:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/10/2007 19:46:26


Originally by: Future Thing

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I can't see what anybody would get out of writing this unless there is an ulterior motive.



Well some people are interested in the interplay of politics, economics and power-mongering that EVE fosters... its nearly an academic interest, as nerdy as that sounds.

My guess is that the OP is one of these... that or he has used a powerful disguise.



Rochel Hakiri
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.09 19:48:00 - [66]
 

Good read indeed.

thanks

Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:06:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor

Large POSes: Unknown, but surely nearing (if not already surpassing) 200.


I don't know for large pos.
We counted 130 gbc pos down to 0 rsf in the period from June to September.

Alpine 69
Caldari
Rubbish Superheroes
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:07:00 - [68]
 

A very enjoyable read indeed. A great change for CAOD.

I also think that objective and/or decent writers should get some kind of seal of approval below their avatars Razz

Red Gabba
Minmatar
R E D E M P T I O N
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:22:00 - [69]
 

Nice read tbh

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:30:00 - [70]
 

A very good read. Could this mark a turning point in the future of CAOD? Turn in a 11 to find out! Also weather reports.

Originally by: Future Thing
A refreshing change to most COAD posts, but as much as I love this report it will be interesting to see what the point of these posts are and how it plays out to benefit the alt-owner.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I can't see what anybody would get out of writing this unless there is an ulterior motive.



I think most of us are cynical, which is good, however some people -are- fascinated by EVE politics, just as some of us are fascinated by the EVE markets, and others are fascinated at different styles of PvP. Hell, if I wasn't so market-inclined and was more hands-on in galactic politics (so that I knew what I was talking about) I would write stuff like this just for the fun of putting that kind of information together into an interesting read.

So until the OP proves otherwise, might as well take it at face value.

Nikoli Delphinki
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:31:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Nikoli Delphinki on 09/10/2007 20:35:40
Fairly accurate account of what has happened, lack of recent of events make it appear to lean just a little bit off the middle. I did enjoy reading this though, looking forward to the next one.

Quote:
Any hard starting point will be inaccurate; arguably, wars like RSF vs. the Southern Coalition (KOS, -V-, the start of LV), BoB vs. ASCN, and Everyone vs. ISS had effects on the shape of the greater War to follow, and obviously many involved alliances have grudges dating back years. Others would like to push the date later, as BoB never did mount serious efforts against RSF and their southern allies until well after LV had fallen. Both are correct, obviously. War and the politics behind it are fluid, and any starting point will fail to reflect the whole truth.


It would be interesting trying to classify where the war truly started. I'm hesistant to say that war was brewing when we moved south, or that it began when all of EvE went after the Russians (seeing as we're Russian pets e_e). The real war began at the end of the collapse of LV. Thats truly when everyone picked sides and began to gear up for war.

WhatIsItGoodFor
Minmatar
Absolutely Nothin
Posted - 2007.10.09 20:47:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Nez Perces
Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/10/2007 19:46:26


Originally by: Future Thing

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I can't see what anybody would get out of writing this unless there is an ulterior motive.



Well some people are interested in the interplay of politics, economics and power-mongering that EVE fosters... its nearly an academic interest, as nerdy as that sounds.

My guess is that the OP is one of these... that or he has used a powerful disguise.


Spot on (no pun intended). The series of War Analysis threads I have planned are mostly an academic interest. For the most part, Eve "news" sources (ISD, EveTV, EveTribune) are strictly current events and are often lacking in more thorough discussion. From my point of view, that's some of the most fascinating stuff.

I also find that writing and contemplating the larger status, nature, and concepts of the war helps clarify my own day to day thoughts. It's easy to fall prey to propaganda, whether buying into the friendly or rejecting the hostile. The truth is usually somewhere between the two, and far more complex. I'm admittedly not in a leadership position among the major players in this war, so I'm sure I'll get some facts wrong and probably some conclusions as well. But as long as I make myself (and hopefully a few others) think about things a bit more thoroughly, I'll be happy.

Don't get me wrong though, this isn't a campaign to "make CAOD thoughtful and intelligent." First, that's impossible. Second, I actually enjoy CAOD quite a bit as it is. Very Happy

Future Thing
Gallente
Ninja Warriors of the Round Table
Posted - 2007.10.09 21:11:00 - [73]
 

In my view if this was purely for enjoyement then you would use a main and not an alt - but that's all just irrelevent and off-topic. So long as your posting remains of this quality I don't mind what secret plan you may or may not have. I'd just like to be able to work out what it was because I'm nosey. ;)

Rennard
Amarr
Aku Soku Zan
Posted - 2007.10.09 21:38:00 - [74]
 

Nice and Accurate.

WhatIsItGoodFor
Minmatar
Absolutely Nothin
Posted - 2007.10.09 21:45:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Future Thing
In my view if this was purely for enjoyement then you would use a main and not an alt - but that's all just irrelevent and off-topic. So long as your posting remains of this quality I don't mind what secret plan you may or may not have. I'd just like to be able to work out what it was because I'm nosey. ;)


Some people feel more free to troll while anonymous. From my point of view, it's quite the opposite.

Any attempt at objective analysis -- and I do qualify this as attempted objectivity, as I am only human -- will ultimately contain things that aggravate both sides. Whether posted from a BoB member, a GS member, or someone unaffiliated with the war entirely, that corp/alliance ticker will automatically cause people to make assumptions about what I'm saying before they read a word.

I'd rather let some think this is disguised propaganda than have everyone think it's just blatant propaganda. At worst, when I start making some arguable assertions and conclusions, at least people on both sides will have to explain why I'm wrong rather than reply to my corp/alliance ticker alone.

Nez Perces
Amarr
Metatron Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.09 22:04:00 - [76]
 


Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Whether posted from a BoB member, a GS member, or someone unaffiliated with the war entirely, that corp/alliance ticker will automatically cause people to make assumptions about what I'm saying before they read a word.



You sought to protect your thread from bias by using an alt, which is probably not a bad idea, considering the polarisation inherent in this war. Is it a valid excuse though?

One could easily say - and there is the precedent for it - "post with your main.. etc.. etc..".

This goes to the heart of what differentiates an alt from a main... What does being an alt really mean?

Well, literally speaking an alt is an alternate character. And therefore a main is a main character. The percieved wisdom is that posting with your main is more authentic than posting with an alt. In a lot of cases this might be true, but there are certainly exceptions..

For example Backdoor Bandit is an obvious alt, but he is much more interesting than his main character. Some mains don't post on CAOD at all, instead their alts are well known CAOD commentators. Take Sir Molle.. is he really a main? or is he simply BoB's well known and infamous mouthpiece, whilst Shrike really does all the heavy lifting.

Or goonfleet, they are mostly mains or so it would appear.. but when you argue with goons you argue with them all at the same time, which is kinda freaky.

My point is, WhatIsItGoodFor may or may not be an alt, but he has produced a coherent and informative piece of writing.

Surely that is more than most mains accomplish in a lifetime of CAOD posting. For some that might be good enough to excuse the use of an alt.. for others not.. such is CAOD.


Tomas Ysidro
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.09 22:37:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Shredded
#1: Extremely well written and researched. I'm looking forwards to the next installment.

#2: Brilliant name/Corp name combo.


^^ this

Jasese
Gallente
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:03:00 - [78]
 

Post to good, boring. Gimmeh some propaganda smack

Phaeton Prime
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:05:00 - [79]
 

War losses are all relatively immaterial for MMORPGs. Analysis of dollars and cents won't lead to any interesting conclusions because of the inherent immortality of players. This would be more interesting if you analyzed the changes in the different alliances fighting the war: player counts, player participation, morale, the histories of the various corporations in the alliances, etc. Even analyzing the general effectiveness, esprit de corps, etc. of the different alliances of the GBC and the coalition. The MC, BoB, RA, AAA are all important players and how their particular "corporate culture" will influence the war for instance. Although a look at the less well known players may also be interesting.

A lot has changed during this war for all the alliances involved. Different corps have joined/left certain alliances, player counts have risen and fallen. It's these changes that will lead to a more educated guess on the general progression of this war.

Look forward to seeing you address these points in a later part.

Tisanta
Amarr
Stargazer Exploration Company
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:14:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Hans Roaming
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Not a bad writeup. Neutral reporting may still exist?




Totally agree, I started reading expecting a post blatantly pro one side or the other and find a refreshing change.

most def

very nice read, we need mroe of this =p

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:18:00 - [81]
 

OMG the foretold Unbiased player is here!!! The prophecy is complete!!!!!

All run to the hills!!!

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:57:00 - [82]
 

Good post, enjoyable read... definately unexpected COAD material.

wicked cheese
Amarr
Imperial Research Inovations
Barbarian Reformation Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.10 00:08:00 - [83]
 

seemed pretty accurate afaik, though the YW/TRI was biased even if it is popular thought (and hopefully the outcome ^^)

and i didnt know LV lost a titan? i know they lost one that was getting built but does that count? as i believe D2 took down a BOB titan that was getting built, and surely a couple others have been destroyed during building. are those counted or not?

all in all, was a good read. i give it two middle fingers up Smile

Future Thing
Gallente
Ninja Warriors of the Round Table
Posted - 2007.10.10 00:10:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Originally by: Future Thing
In my view if this was purely for enjoyement then you would use a main and not an alt - but that's all just irrelevent and off-topic. So long as your posting remains of this quality I don't mind what secret plan you may or may not have. I'd just like to be able to work out what it was because I'm nosey. ;)


Some people feel more free to troll while anonymous. From my point of view, it's quite the opposite.

Any attempt at objective analysis -- and I do qualify this as attempted objectivity, as I am only human -- will ultimately contain things that aggravate both sides. Whether posted from a BoB member, a GS member, or someone unaffiliated with the war entirely, that corp/alliance ticker will automatically cause people to make assumptions about what I'm saying before they read a word.

I'd rather let some think this is disguised propaganda than have everyone think it's just blatant propaganda. At worst, when I start making some arguable assertions and conclusions, at least people on both sides will have to explain why I'm wrong rather than reply to my corp/alliance ticker alone.


You have satisfied my cynicism for now! ;-) Hope you continue with this and good luck with it!

Vital Efters
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.10 00:49:00 - [85]
 

Saying "everyone is even!" doesn't make you objective.

Calshim
Caldari
Monty Python's Ministry of Stupidity
Posted - 2007.10.10 00:59:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Calshim on 10/10/2007 01:03:03
finally something worth the effort of reading in CAOD nice job OP.

Kyrie Elaison
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.10 01:08:00 - [87]
 

Nice work. I only wish you'd have examined momentum, but that's a can of worms in and of itself. It's nice to be able to take a step back and see the whole picture, separate from the day to day concerns. Thanks for this.

Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.10 02:45:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Not a bad writeup. Neutral reporting may still exist?




Wouldn't be surprised if it was The Mittani's alt - like James 315, and he was building up to a 3rd-4th part where he would start the anti-bob propaganda based on the fact that he is viewed as neutral. :)

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.10 04:56:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/10/2007 04:59:10
Originally by: Nikoli Delphinki
It would be interesting trying to classify where the war truly started. I'm hesistant to say that war was brewing when we moved south, or that it began when all of EvE went after the Russians (seeing as we're Russian pets e_e). The real war began at the end of the collapse of LV. Thats truly when everyone picked sides and began to gear up for war.

I would say that the "when the war started" question boils down to a simple concept that, IMO, many alliances in EVE history have ignored.

When you defeat an opposing alliance, they are not gone from EVE. Most of their players continue to play, and even if their corporations disband, those players are far more likely to oppose you in the next war than to join you. And they'll often bring their friends with them.

Band of Brothers, for a long time, wasn't seen as "The Big Bad" by all that many--but over time, as they devastated alliance after alliance, grudges were fostered. This is of course the case of any military alliance that seeks to conquer space; BoB is just the largest of these. Often, an alliance may ignore this concept by stating that "they're just a bunch of carebears" or similar, suggesting that they'd never be a threat anyways. I'd say the destruction of ASCN and the defeat of CODA by BoB&friends were in a sense the real beginning of the war, because those two events ensured that the South would be polarized for years to come.

Remember that not only does one make enemies of the alliance that was evicted from their space, but also everyone in the area that was allied with them, even if those entities didn't actively fight in the conflict.

Of course, if you want an even more difficult question, you could ask "at what point in time was the current state of affairs basically inevitable regardless of the decisions made by any of the involved alliances?" I'd say that the absolute most recent event that could have changed the course of EVE history was BoB's decision to invade ASCN--had that not occurred, things would have likely gone completely differently, probably in a way nobody would be able to predict, given the amount of time that has elapsed since then.

Clinically
Gallente
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.10.10 06:58:00 - [90]
 

Excellent, thank you.


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