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Xalorn
Amarr
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 16:53:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Xalorn on 09/10/2007 16:53:59
Originally by: SigmaPi

lol, Just because an all encompasing war report doesnt favor your particular side doesnt make it impartial. The report as a whole is very accurate and unbiased. Sure it could have had a few other things about how BoB has been pushed back, but it could have had a lot more about how we were pwned to start in the north... Its a war report covering 8 months in less than a page of content.


Sorry, you're right. Given all the victories by BoB in the beginning, it is rather clear that they must be losing now in order for the net result many months later to be a stalemate.

Edit: to fix formatting

Captain Thunk
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:02:00 - [32]
 

I'm calling shenanigans.

It looks far too much like a James315 post to be just a coincidence, even has the promise of more parts to follow.
No doubt starts off carefully neutral, before showing more and more bias to the owner of whoevers alt it is. My bet is BoB, in a carefully constructed campaign to recapture lost forum territory - although that's just a hunch.

Captain Thunk

WhatIsItGoodFor
Minmatar
Absolutely Nothin
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:05:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Xalorn
You forgot to put a relative perspective on it.


I chose not to, because that was not what this particular introduction was about. As I said at the very start, this was an attempt to take an overall evaluation of the entire War proper, comparing now to the very beginning. I chose Molle's announcement as the starting reference point because it is the most logical point to say the War began.

This thread was not about who has to momentum now. It was about what has changed territorially since the start of the war, because that has implications for tomorrow's analysis.

Current momentum will be covered once all the foundational discussions and arguments have been made that relate to it. To do so before that groundwork was laid would make such a discussion worthless.

Death Merchant
Gallente
United Mining And Distribution
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:09:00 - [34]
 

Other than the IRON dead part, I totally agree with most. Please don't think I'm disagreeing that we as an alliance lost a lot (3 outpost). But basically from the beginning, we knew that we did not have the capital ship presence to "push" a war front or defend against a superior capital force. Like someone from BoB once said .. we like to "punch above our weight". Thus our scant POS placement in our regions and our removal of most of our assets before we even proceeded to the front. This was in some part the problem of our reliance on allies capitals to assist us. Our mistake.

That being said we have learned from said mistakes and although we have lost a few outstanding pilots, as an alliance we realize what is needed to compete on the levels we have seen. Basically we are still alive, licking wounds, getting stronger and will not make the same mistake twice. We will be okWink




Natas Dog
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:15:00 - [35]
 

Looks pretty unbiased, nice work. CAOD needed a replacement for James315 :)

Rhadamantine
Amarr
Game Community
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:19:00 - [36]
 

Very good write up.
Make a refreshing change tbh. Cool

Victoria Ehr
Caldari
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:19:00 - [37]
 

Very well written and good information to kind of sum up everything that is going on in the outer rim

Areena Shay
Caldari
Shay Trading Company
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:31:00 - [38]
 

Looks pretty fair and balanced. Excellent writeup.

Candidly, is anyone shocked that Goons don't like it? Unless this post came out calling them awesome pvpers who secured the battlefield with sheer tactical brilliance, would it ever be good enough for them? Seriously, the Goons wouldn't know the unbiased truth if it hit them square in the nose.

Pronas
Amarr
Scoopex
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:35:00 - [39]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Valorem ([email protected])

Tarsyris
Gallente
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:41:00 - [40]
 

Titan killed during build means a total loss of mineral value. Titan killed while piloted means possible loss of modules and an 18(?) billion insurance cash in. A titan killed during build is by far a bigger blow and harder to recover from than a titan killed while piloted.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:41:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 09/10/2007 17:40:45
I'm sorry but I have to flame the OP for posting a very unbiased and pretty much factual post in CAOD, where flamers, running headless chickens, trolls, shenanigans, abusive alt posting, more flaming, total lack of factual evidence, spy sprawling point, and my grandma's alt live.


please go back and edit your thread to include "OMFG BOB/GBC/IAC/AAA/RED/TCF/GOONS/RISE/whateveryouwanttoposthere!" in your thread and start flaming one of the sides.

Laughing



but now seriously:

impressiveShocked

copeq harkonnen
Caldari
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:43:00 - [42]
 

Excellent work, nice to see a neutral summary of events rather than a one sided bias thread, good work

Natas Dog
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:44:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Areena Shay
Looks pretty fair and balanced. Excellent writeup.

Candidly, is anyone shocked that Goons don't like it? Unless this post came out calling them awesome pvpers who secured the battlefield with sheer tactical brilliance, would it ever be good enough for them? Seriously, the Goons wouldn't know the unbiased truth if it hit them square in the nose.

And you would, with your sweeping generalizations? I've seen what, one goon with a negative opinion and you paint the entire alliance with your brush? Considering the goons with positive opinions outnumber him in this thread, I'd candidly say you're just a flame baiting **** for brains.

Elliott Manchild
Gallente
Animosity.
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:48:00 - [44]
 

A good read :o GJ

Areena Shay
Caldari
Shay Trading Company
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:51:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Natas Dog
Originally by: Areena Shay
Looks pretty fair and balanced. Excellent writeup.

Candidly, is anyone shocked that Goons don't like it? Unless this post came out calling them awesome pvpers who secured the battlefield with sheer tactical brilliance, would it ever be good enough for them? Seriously, the Goons wouldn't know the unbiased truth if it hit them square in the nose.

And you would, with your sweeping generalizations? I've seen what, one goon with a negative opinion and you paint the entire alliance with your brush? Considering the goons with positive opinions outnumber him in this thread, I'd candidly say you're just a flame baiting **** for brains.


That is just it, you are blind to your own Alliance's posts. Seriously, take off your Goon Tinfoil Hat and read the crap your members put out here day after day after day and then come back and tell me with a straight face that the few Goons who posted here are representative of your entire alliance.

Maximillian Bayonette
Gallente
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2007.10.09 17:53:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Areena Shay
Candidly, is anyone shocked that Goons don't like it? Unless this post came out calling them awesome pvpers who secured the battlefield with sheer tactical brilliance, would it ever be good enough for them? Seriously, the Goons wouldn't know the unbiased truth if it hit them square in the nose.


I'd say you're being unfair here. One goon has claimed the OP to be untrue, but most of them are agreeing, at least to an extent. Of course both sides will have different views, and neither side really wants to see their own failures or their opponents successes, but in this thread, so far at least, most have said the OP seems pretty unbiased.

Your post is most likely to spark yet another flame war, and it is a shame to ruin a thread that started so well.

Wesley Baird
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:00:00 - [47]
 

Decent summary of events!


Areena Shay
Caldari
Shay Trading Company
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:03:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
Originally by: Areena Shay
Candidly, is anyone shocked that Goons don't like it? Unless this post came out calling them awesome pvpers who secured the battlefield with sheer tactical brilliance, would it ever be good enough for them? Seriously, the Goons wouldn't know the unbiased truth if it hit them square in the nose.


I'd say you're being unfair here. One goon has claimed the OP to be untrue, but most of them are agreeing, at least to an extent. Of course both sides will have different views, and neither side really wants to see their own failures or their opponents successes, but in this thread, so far at least, most have said the OP seems pretty unbiased.

Your post is most likely to spark yet another flame war, and it is a shame to ruin a thread that started so well.


Fair enough. My goal was not to start a flame war. I am sick and tired of all the propaganda posts they put out. CAOD has turned into a cesspool of Goon propaganda. Yet, at least in this ONE thread, all but 1 Goon have been fair. I retract my earlier statement and hope maybe Goons can lay off the propaganda BS for good.

WhatIsItGoodFor
Minmatar
Absolutely Nothin
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:04:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: WhatIsItGoodFor on 09/10/2007 18:05:05
Originally by: Tarsyris
Titan killed during build means a total loss of mineral value. Titan killed while piloted means possible loss of modules and an 18(?) billion insurance cash in. A titan killed during build is by far a bigger blow and harder to recover from than a titan killed while piloted.


In truth, it depends on a few things: namely, mineral prices at the time of construction (even if everything is mined and built in-house, it is still worth market value), value of the modules it is equipped with, whether the modules are recovered, destroyed, or recovered by the enemy (which obviously represents an even further swing), and even implants of the Titan pilot if podded. Or, in the case of a Titan in build, you'd also have to factor in the cost of the POS itself.

Basically, there's a lot of factors there unique to each case that could swing the value of a piloted Titan vs. an in-build Titan kill one way or the other. That's why I listed all of the Titan kills, piloted or no (and the same with the relevant motherships).

As for the impact, it ultimately depends on the alliance itself (as I'll get into tomorrow) and their current situation in the War far more than it depends on the value of the Titan (whether piloted or in-build).

Harkan Ramientes
Amarr
Aquilae Stellaris
Talon Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:07:00 - [50]
 

Interesting read , indeed and a nice overview, props

Xenea
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:09:00 - [51]
 

Thank you for something interesting to read. I agree with the previous posters -- good work.

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:12:00 - [52]
 

MOOAAR of posts like this! Very nice and a welcome wind of fresh air on CAOD!


Cheers,
Lowa

Kwa Kaine
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:15:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Kwa Kaine on 09/10/2007 18:15:15
Good read, I look forward to the next instalment.


Stoned Celt
Caldari
Bloodnok Technologies
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:17:00 - [54]
 

I enjoyed reading that.

Thanks to the OP for the effort that has obviously gone into compiling it.

Tarsyris
Gallente
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:22:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Tarsyris on 09/10/2007 18:22:48
Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Edited by: WhatIsItGoodFor on 09/10/2007 18:05:05
Originally by: Tarsyris
Titan killed during build means a total loss of mineral value. Titan killed while piloted means possible loss of modules and an 18(?) billion insurance cash in. A titan killed during build is by far a bigger blow and harder to recover from than a titan killed while piloted.


In truth, it depends on a few things: namely, mineral prices at the time of construction (even if everything is mined and built in-house, it is still worth market value), value of the modules it is equipped with, whether the modules are recovered, destroyed, or recovered by the enemy (which obviously represents an even further swing), and even implants of the Titan pilot if podded. Or, in the case of a Titan in build, you'd also have to factor in the cost of the POS itself.

Basically, there's a lot of factors there unique to each case that could swing the value of a piloted Titan vs. an in-build Titan kill one way or the other. That's why I listed all of the Titan kills, piloted or no (and the same with the relevant motherships).

As for the impact, it ultimately depends on the alliance itself (as I'll get into tomorrow) and their current situation in the War far more than it depends on the value of the Titan (whether piloted or in-build).


Theoretically, yes, but theory is unnecesary when we know the reality of individual situations. Virtually all MS killed in action were equiped below(way way below) their insurance pay out. All titans killed in action were similarly equiped below their insurance pay out. Therefore we know that in the particular, real, situations of the war kills in building counted for more than kills in action.

edit. I agree fully that the morale impact is separate, but I was referring to purely the economical consequences.

Shredded
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:34:00 - [56]
 

#1: Extremely well written and researched. I'm looking forwards to the next installment.

#2: Brilliant name/Corp name combo.

Tripden
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:40:00 - [57]
 

Nice one... Smile

Strana Mechty
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:45:00 - [58]
 

Pretty good read.

hydraSlav
Gallente
Synergy Evolved
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:47:00 - [59]
 

Wow, this was quite objective. Looking forward to part 2.

CrispyKritters
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.10.09 18:50:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Areena Shay


Fair enough. My goal was not to start a flame war. I am sick and tired of all the propaganda posts they put out. CAOD has turned into a cesspool of Goon propaganda. Yet, at least in this ONE thread, all but 1 Goon have been fair. I retract my earlier statement and hope maybe Goons can lay off the propaganda BS for good.


Way to avoid a flame war with a flame post. Obviously before Goon propaganda posts, BoB was the beacon of light on COAD and we all strive to be them Rolling Eyes.


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