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Edmund Khan
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.06 16:03:00 - [1]

Imagine true artillery. Park Juggernauts outside a POS shield, "dig" them in, get target painting frigs on the battlefield, lock targets, paint them and call in the strike.

No idea about the size, battleships could be enough, maybe even tier2 dreads. Get them some artillery guns, loaded with bombs. After target is painted, and broadcasted, they can fire their big guns - 10 to 15s later the bombs hit the coordinates given by the scouts.

No idea if this is possible with current EVE system, but would be really nice, remote cyno worked. For once it would take few players away from the frontline/battle grid and would break blobs.

Diged in ships are like in siege, they need to be protected, so it's a risk to put them out there, on the other hand, they would hit for a lot of dmg, system wide.

Posted - 2007.10.08 22:19:00 - [2]

Edited by: Maulcra on 08/10/2007 22:22:35

Use it to soften up an entrenched gatecamp, POS defenses, or even outpost services.

You would have to have a means to counter the indirect fire, popping the target painting ship before the volley or the use of counter-batteries to triangulate and even return fire on the incoming arty.

This would certainly add a much needed layer of depth to Eve warfare, the use of indirect fire has been a key element of military strategy (and blunders).

Posted - 2007.10.09 03:53:00 - [3]

Very cool idea IMO. Real bombardment from really powerful ships that need some assist to aim but may not be that tough for taking it themselves would be awesome.

/signed all the way

Jaketh Ivanes
House of El
Posted - 2007.10.09 08:28:00 - [4]

Sounds very interesting.
But lets look at it from the defenders side:

I have my POS with loads of guns and fun stuff. Enemy scans my POS and places a Juggernaut off grid. Then 10 frigates fly in and start painting my modules. Bombardment commences.

I yell at my corp m8, that the pos is under attack and I need help. I run to a station and get my covert ops frigate so I can probe down the Juggernaut. I find it, bookmark it, then run back and get a combat ship to attack the Juggernaut.
Time spent would be about 5 minutes (worst case, i belive). So I have 5 minutes to kill the Juggernaut, if it is in siege mode.
The Juggernaut has to be rather weak, as it is not in direct line of fire from the POS, as dreads are. A pack of 5 cruisers should be enough to take it down quickly, provided it has no protection.

Sounds good to me Smile

Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2007.10.09 08:34:00 - [5]

that actually sounds pertty awsome, or it could just be a module on a ship to throw another idea out there.

Antarus Lars
Posted - 2007.10.09 09:57:00 - [6]

Nice idea..

But how could you stop it being abused?

Example A = Pies camping a gate with 20 of em constantly bombarding from off grid.

Example B = Constantly bombarding the entrance to a station

Example C = The insane power of having a group of 100 of these to instapop anything that goes into a certin aarea. not sure how ya could balance it tbh.

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2007.10.09 12:43:00 - [7]

The hard thing with indirect fire in Eve is that by its nature all combat is directed - that's why we don't have tractor nets or giant flak cannons. Luckily, there are mechanisms in place to emulate the effect:

1) A scout launches a 'beacon' from a probe launcher (make Covert Ops even more useful).
2) The Juggernaut locks on to that beacon in much the same way as it would lock onto a cyno field.
3) The Juggernaut then fires at that beacon, and here's the easy bit - make the artillery pieces use bombs. The Artillery skill should effect accuracy, 30km radius from the beacon at 0 to 5km radius at level five. By the nature of using bombs, the splash damage is emulated by that. Further, to prevent massive bombardments, still have the bomb timer when the bomb appears. Have the artillery pieces as massive weapons that create miniture warp tunnels to the beacon or something (a bit more realistic that proper weapons).

This can be emulated by just spawning a bomb within the given radius of the beacon, and just disappearing it from the Juggernaut as it was fired.

The Juggernaut should be a variant of the Dreadnought - don't want everyone just picking one up - basically built around this remote warp tunnel creating device.

For the Artillery, make it so it can hold only one charge per shot, making it always at least 10s between shots. The re-fire timer could be affected by the ship skill. There would have to be a maximum range though, not sure what is viable - probably within the range of sensing fairly easily.

This is a really, really good idea - it breaks the blob, and would provide some vastly needed support to POS sieges.

I don't think using normal bombs would be best, they are a little too weak for it, so larger ones.

As for defence - this is where remote shield bubbles would come in handy Wink

I love this idea. Let's work out the details - I know the devs love having to do as little work as possible heh, the better we do the more chance they'd take it on!

Cym Hugh
Boa Innovations
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.10.09 13:32:00 - [8]

Originally by: Antarus Lars
Nice idea..

Example A = Pies camping a gate with 20 of em constantly bombarding from off grid.
Example B = Constantly bombarding the entrance to a station
Example C = The insane power of having a group of 100 of these to instapop anything that goes into a certin aarea. not sure how ya could balance it tbh.

A & B = Stealth bomber bombs are 15-20m each, the indirect fire charges would have greater damage, so a higher price tag in material cost would be warranted. Stronger than a Stealth Bomber bomb, but not nearly as strong as a Doomsday Device, of course.

C = To combat indirect fire, you have to move your forces around, continuously. Warfare in Eve is awfully static, warp in, shoot, kill or die. Nothing should instapop, the mechanics built in with sig radius/speed/tank vs indirect fire damage would ensure that didn't happen.

Or another way it can work: there could be indirect fire options for each of the current ammo types, to have the flexibility for the gang they're travelling with:

Destroyer indirect fire platform using S ammo/charges
Cruiser indirect fire platform using M ammo/charges
Battleship indirect fire platform using L ammo/charges
Capital (Dread) indirect fire platform using XL ammo/charges
POS module using XL ammo/charges

Should all have bonus to damage output, and ranged (500k to <14AU) appropriately for the size of their weapons platform and role, need to be protected by support ships.

Have each enter a siege mode (to commit their usage) and link with a fire control module on another ship(s), may want to have a primary and backup (or two), dedicated frigate (stealth bomber functionality) or as an additional role for battlecruisers and commandships in the form of gang links?

Counterbattery fire options should be available, jamming the fire control ships, scanning probe/modules that can extrapolate the trajectory of incoming fire, to lock on the enemy batteries.

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:20:00 - [9]

Free bump for a good idea.

Posted - 2007.10.11 14:36:00 - [10]

more opinions, suggestions?

Chunks Blown
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2007.10.11 15:39:00 - [11]

I think it should work with some type of sensor linking.

You would be required to have a COps or FRecon cloaked and stationary relaying it's on sensor information to the Juggernaught. If you want to hit a target, you'd have to be within your spotters own targeting range. So it's not just having one person needing skills to fly a Jugger, but another Pilot needing the skills required to pilot a COps or FRecon ship, AND skills such as Sensor linking 5 along with secondary skills to help the operation such as long range targeting. You could also add skills to the frey such as Astrometric Pinpointing and Triangulation into the accuracy mix, since most COps pilots trained those for Exploration.

It could be a nice dynamic addition to the game.

Uncle Smokey
Posted - 2007.10.11 18:16:00 - [12]

good idea! ...but you dont want to even accidentally warp around a pos in a frigate. try it out :D

Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2007.10.11 18:24:00 - [13]

Great idea in search of balance.

Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2007.10.11 18:43:00 - [14]

Maybe some powerful AOE damage with a huge radius? Velocity/sig radius based like missile so that smaller ships aren't simply annihilated without a chance.

It would definitely deter blobbing.

How about this...

Deploy a beacon with a reasonable amount of hp like small/medium bubble and a limited lifespan. Juggernauts or whatever sit out of scan range(!) and can lob warping mortars at the beacon with travel time of at least 10 seconds. Also make it so they can be "caught" by bubbles for even more fun.

Imagine this scenario:
Covops sets up a beacon in the middle of a bubble camp, cloaks and gets away without a scratch.
Bubble camp scatters to avoid getting annihilated and begin hunting juggernaut.
Bubble camp member finds the juggernaught and plants a small (new, non-scannable bubble?) near the Juggernaut.
Juggernaut fires again, mortar is caught by the bubble, explodes wiping the bubble and doing significant damage to the juggernaut.

Or...after discovery, juggernaut drops a mortar on itself to prevent the camp blobbing him, heated, non-blobbing fight ensues!

How does that sound? Good anti-blob, not solopwnmobile, able to be countered to devastating effect.

Something like 100km blast radius, explosion velocity between cruise and heavy missile? In order to be worth anything it has to be able to punch a battleship or larger ship hard enough to make it move and also a pack of frigates moving quickly should not get total immunity. Yet at the same time, the juggernaut must not be able to spam mortars on itself for long.

Posted - 2007.10.12 00:51:00 - [15]

Originally by: Uncle Smokey
good idea! ...but you dont want to even accidentally warp around a pos in a frigate. try it out :D

No problem if your spotter is a COps cloaking device user.

Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:18:00 - [16]

Love it!! Awesome anti-blob weapon. Very tactichal (with the siege), needs support for protection, needs a broadcasted target and needs it painted. Hits anywhere within the same system...


Angel Vengen
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.27 02:10:00 - [17]


ohh... emm...eff...gee...

THis is probably one of the ebst Ideas I have ever really red on here... Props to you man. It really does seem like a great idea. My little .02 isk... The module could be called hunker mode or something... and give cov ops ships some static bonus where thier probes get a decent hit on the fire platform, not a 0km one, but one to bring it in the 10au probe or whatever... And yea I like the lidea of making it so smaller ships aren't instapopped... I guess I really dont have much to contribute cept the name Confused

Posted - 2007.10.27 03:28:00 - [18]

nice idea

Posted - 2007.10.28 03:05:00 - [19]

Edited by: Aftershock2100 on 28/10/2007 03:06:32
Imagine true artillery. Park Juggernauts outside a POS shield, "dig" them in, get target painting frigs on the battlefield, lock targets, paint them and call in the strike.

Been Playing Command and conquer 3? Very Happy that game

anyway hell yeah! /signed

You dont need to really show the "Shots" themselves, i mean look at 1200m artillery and some autocannons as it is! On the juggernaut you show the cannons firing, then after like 15-30 seconds or somthing, the explosions happen in the area around the beacon or painted area or whatever. The explosions could beee oh i dunno 2.5k dmg? but the juggernaut has 4 guns or somthing so there are 4 explosions covering aaaa.... 20km area? Or! just have the artillery array act as 1 unit, the damage would be 2k x amount of guns effecting the area. Plus you could have it so everyone within 50km of the area about to be hit would have their computer happily report: "Warning! Artillery barrage detected!"

... man that takes me back to the horror but awsomeness of hearing about a nuke launch in starcraft.

*edit* reminder: the damage numbers presented are done so for the sake of example, so if you dont think they are good then pretend i said somthing you like.... then give me some cake.


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