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blankseplocked General preparation for PVP at the cruiser/battlecruiser scale
 
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Divideby0
Gallente
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.10.02 23:34:00 - [1]
 

I'm finally getting into Pvp and thinking about how to prepare my setups for encounters with other players. This is for Cruisers / Battle cruisers. I'm not looking to lose a BS just yet.

I know PVP is nothing like PVE in that you cannot predict what you will encounter (unless you know who you are hunting). So I am drawing a blank on how to prepare resists on an armor tank, if any. Well, I have distilled to four possibilities:

1. PvP is either a win or no win - Don't bother with resists.
2. I am Gallente space. - Tank for therm/kinetic.
3. Improve my weak area. - Tank for EXP or EM depending on ship.
4. Come armed for the bear - Raise all as much as possible.

What do you, more experienced PVPers, find most accurate? Or is there another way to do this?


Lacros
Posted - 2007.10.02 23:43:00 - [2]
 

lets see get all main resists around 70%(not too hard) and take to battle heavy ion blasters t2 for preference, oh and mwd web and 1 of those anti warp thingies, if u have a spare med slot after all that cap battreys

Koruptdeath
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.02 23:43:00 - [3]
 

I'm pretty sure a veteran pvper would say to "choose your engagements". You can't control who you fight (usually) but you can still dictate how to or when to fight. Take time to case ships before attacking them, usually you can make a decent guess at what they're running. As for resists, I think generally people raise everything as much as reasonably possible within the confines of their setup.

Divideby0
Gallente
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.10.02 23:54:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Lacros
lets see get all main resists around 70%(not too hard) and take to battle heavy ion blasters t2 for preference, oh and mwd web and 1 of those anti warp thingies, if u have a spare med slot after all that cap battreys


I'm taking only T1 equipment. No sense in losing expensive modules to the learning curve.

Originally by: Koruptdeath
I'm pretty sure a veteran pvper would say to "choose your engagements". You can't control who you fight (usually) but you can still dictate how to or when to fight. Take time to case ships before attacking them, usually you can make a decent guess at what they're running. As for resists, I think generally people raise everything as much as reasonably possible within the confines of their setup.


This starts to get to my other big question: how do find their weakness. But if people tend to be armed for the bear, then there isnt much point. right?

Corwain
Posted - 2007.10.03 00:03:00 - [5]
 

Most people try to up all their resists as much as possible, so 2x Invuln IIs and a boost amp/Damage Control for shield tankers and 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane IIs (EANM II) and a Damage Control

If you have more slots you start plugging holes or using other active hardeners.

Shield tank: 2x Invuln II, 1x EM II, 1x Therm II, Boost Amp
Armor Tank: EANM II, DC II, Ex Hard II, Ki Hard II, Th Hard II

You also have to think of how cap hungry your weapons are. A passive hardener that doesn't use valuable cap might be vital on a laserboat or blasterboat, but would be silly on a missileboat or an AC boat that have cap to spare. (Droneboats are usually also blasterboats so fall under the former catagory.

Although, now that so few people use nos you don't need to worry about hardeners turning off between cap boosts so you might want to always go active if you have the slots and fitting.

Oh, and Damage controls use 1/30 of a cap per second so they're nearly passive already.

Divideby0
Gallente
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.10.03 00:14:00 - [6]
 

I see now why people go for as much DPS as possible.

thanks!

Koruptdeath
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.03 00:17:00 - [7]
 

it depends imo. really i'd say that in higher scale pvp, a good tank is worth more than a high dps. unless of course your DPS is so ridiculous you can 2 shot something ;)

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2007.10.03 00:18:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Rooker on 03/10/2007 00:37:28
You're asking the wrong question. In PvP, you fit your ship to either tank or gank. Not many ships can do both well, so choose one or the other.

If you're going to tank, you need a cap injector and high all around resists. You'll need to be able to bring your armor back up faster than they can bring it down. Dealing damage is secondary to fixing it, so you won't be using the highest damage weapons.

Damage control + 2 EANM + rep or 2 reps depending on what ship it is. Or if it's a Myrmidon you can use Expl/Therm/Kin hardeners + damage control because it has enough low slots, CPU and capacitor for all that.

There's also speed tanking, in which you stay out of weapon range or move faster than weapons can track, but Gallente T1 cruisers/BCs don't do that very well.

There's EWAR tanking, where you deny someone the ability to get a clean lock with jamming or damping or you screw up their guns with a tracking disruptor.

If you're going to gank, then you fit armor plate, 1 or -maybe- 2 eanm and a damage control, plus MagStabs to increase damage. Full rack of the heaviest weapons that will fit. The idea is, you kill them so quickly that there is no need to worry about tanking and your resists don't matter too much. The armor plate is there to keep their ammo out of your hull while you shred them.

Brutix and Thorax are really good for this.

Edit: Some purdy pix

Example of a gank Thorax <-- Melts stuff quick. That's my solo set-up. If you're in a gang, you can replace the EANM with another magstab and the jammer drones for hammerheads and do a lot more damage.

Example of a tanked Brutix <-- Tanks very hard and still does respectable damage, but not nearly as much as possible because the tank gimps the power available for fitting guns.

Lusian
Posted - 2007.10.03 01:15:00 - [9]
 

Where did u get that programe that shows what you just put up ?

Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
Posted - 2007.10.03 01:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Lusian
Where did u get that programe that shows what you just put up ?


That's Eve Fitting Tool.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.10.03 01:37:00 - [11]
 

The only thing you must forget from pve is the conept of sustainable tank.

The important is how long can you survive to a firepower about as strong as your own (thinkign you gonna engage somethign same size). That is why plates are sometimes far better tahn repairers. And single repair setups are jokes.

Seems you are gallente player. So You could try fitting a plate 2 EANM and a DC. Its a very reasonable tank.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2007.10.03 02:50:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Stuart Price on 03/10/2007 02:53:57
In my experience, battlecruisers do three things well if they're set up for it:

Heavy tackle: Putting scrams on a target whilst having enough tank to last while the rest of your gang drops it.
Heavy tanking: Massively hard to kill, not much dps. Excellent bait ships (bait-drakes are win for getting people to aggress) and useful in large packs since you'll do constant dps without providing an obvious target for the enemy to splatter.
Damage Dealing: Fast lock, lots of dps while still having enough raw health to survive a few volleys.

Tanking for pvp is very different to tanking for pve. Injection tanks that can take real punishment over short time spans are FAR more useful than setups that last forever but are more easily overpowered. If you're called primary you ARE going to die unless you can break the other guys first, so surviving for 20 seconds using an injection tank is more useful than surviving 10 with a standard tank and since such engagements are usually decided fairly quickly, cap is not as much of an issue.

Your likelihood of being called primary and therefore your need to tank well depends as much on the other ships in your gang as on your ship. If you're a myrmidon and your wingman is in a plated Abaddon, you are gonna get shot most likely. If you're flying with recons or a scorpion then trust me, only the insane would target you first over them Very Happy

The only real exception to this rule is the Drake which can mount an absolutely obscene passive tank that takes an age to break, even with concentrated firepower from multiple battleships.

The other basic rule is it's better to equalise your resists rather than concentrate on a few. Packing massive kinetic and explosive resists may make you untouchable to most projectile weapons but lasers will tear you to shreds and so on.

Ultimately, your level of tank will depend on what you're role in the gang is. For solo work you have to balance damage against tank so that you get maximum efficiency. Solo it's about you breaking the other guys tank before he breaks yours. Or the way things currently stand, being so fast that his damage means nothing Very Happy

Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.10.03 08:42:00 - [13]
 

well, be advise, hole in gallente ships is explosive dmg.
have in mind, that most dealt PvP dmg is thermal.

little or no ppl use EM dmg in PvP, while kinetic is meh..

So u are either against explosive dealing ship (sleip..) or some gallente blaster abuser, which will melt u with therm dmg.

And really depends in what way u wanna go. Cap is life in eve, so its either u make tank on your ship overlast their (they capping out or u overdmg them) or u use somekind of EW (damps, tracking disruptors) while u pwn on them.

OMNI tanks were "nerfed" but are still viable, just get some named or faction EANMS onto your setup plus DC and u are good to go.

While I can repair around 3500HP every cycle on my dual LAR hyp and having 75% resists overboard and still can dish AWESOME dmg with 8 ION blasters II and 4x ogre II. So, yes, u can do both..but only on few ships.

myrm is one of those, hyp, ishtar, dominix, well, everything that has drones. U can tank drone ships to high heaven, coz u dont need dmg mods for weapons, but still fit some add-on dmg with your guns to back up your drones..

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.10.03 08:54:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rooker
Example of a gank Thorax <-- Melts stuff quick. That's my solo set-up. If you're in a gang, you can replace the EANM with another magstab and the jammer drones for hammerheads and do a lot more damage


The ultimate gank thorax

Sure, it requires some hefty skills, but it's not expensive, and damn, it's scary.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.10.03 08:55:00 - [15]
 

Since you are talking about Gallente cruiser level, your tank will most likely compose of:

1)800mm / 1600mm plate (to give you a buffer while you kill things)
2)EANM (to give you some sort of resists, boosting your buffer size)
3)DC (to give you a bit more resists all over the board, and make your structure last a bit longer)

A repper is optional, and is basically there to give you just a bit of tank until you cap out and to repair after the fight.

The idea of cruiser combat is to kill the other guy before you die - no cruiser can really tank cruiser-level damage. BCs/BS can tank their own damage, which makes heavy cap injected tanks interesting.

For a Myrmidon, I'd personally go for:

1) 2x MAR II
2) 1x explosive hardener T2
3) 1x kinetic hardener T2
4) 1x thermic hardener T2
5) 1x DC II

It'd give you really, really good tank (and a *decent* buffer), and you can power it as long as cap charges (800s) hold. Cap injector in mids, of course.

In PvP, you can expect Explosive (Minmatar ships, Warrior IIs), Thermal (Drones, Gallente and Amarr also do thermal) and Kinetic (Antimatter anyone? Also, Minmatar do a bit of kinetic, and Caldari will often be using kinetic missiles due to ship bonuses) and, sometimes, EM, but you have base high EM resist on armour, so no specific damage to tank.


Imhotep Khem
Minmatar
Doom Guard
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2007.10.03 11:50:00 - [16]
 

If your fighting just one enemy, then you can pick your resists. Also I prefer reps to plates unless this is a fleet fight or largish gang. I rarely use both nowadays.

PvP is about outlasting. You can go for gank with massive offence if you have a strategy to quickly break the enemies tank. Else you will die because your few extra DPS will cost you lots of HP.

Divideby0
Gallente
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.10.03 19:17:00 - [17]
 

This is great.

General info about preparing for whichever role you play in PvP is a lot more helpful than the "fit X-Y-Z for one ship" I see all over these forums.


Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.03 21:56:00 - [18]
 

I'd personally fit these resists depending on how many lows you can devote to them
1: Explo hard
2: Explo hard + DCU
3: DCU + EANM + explo hard
4: DCU + explo/kin/therm hards
5: DCU + 4 hards
6: Eh, it's time to start thinking about them magstabs.


 

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