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arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:12:00 - [1]
 

I thought ccp nerfed nano? How come im seeing ishtars, huginns (and vagas, but hey, there supposed to do that aint it?) owning complete 0.0 with there nano setups? How come im still seeing (rare, i admit it) nanophoons running around? Aint it time to swing another time with the nerfbat?

Bring it onTwisted Evil

Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:21:00 - [2]
 

CCP made the modules suffer from stacing nerf, same as damage mods. So now you can only fit 3 and still get an effect. So not much use on a bs with 3 rigslots and 7 lowslots. A hac with 2 rigslots and 5 lows it still works though.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:27:00 - [3]
 

They brought down the inertial stabilizer super weapon and made the way overdrives, nanofibers, and inertial stabilizers work a lot simpler and more logical.

I love the way nerf whine cycles go.

"Oh, it's overpowered. Nerf it"

*few months of whining*

*nerf*

"Oh damn, it's been nerfed. Now it's totally worthless. You can't do it at all anymore."

*few months go by*

*smart people realize that it is still perfectly doable and quite effective*

*loads of people start doing it*

"It's overpowered. Nerf it."

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:33:00 - [4]
 

HACs/recons and some kinds of cruisers (stabber, fleet stabber, cynabal) can be nano-ed up effectively, which I don't see a problem with (in fact, considering the price of certain ships and their effect increase compared to a tier2 BC, I'd say not nano-ing most HACs is wasteful).

Then again, I *may* be biased, since I started flying a nano-Cynabal recently. Preety fun to fly, although the DPS is just plain laughable, and it's a pain to keep at some 15km (one wrong move and you're in webrange or out of 24km, it's not a Crow so you can just auto-orbit and spam missiles, you've got to actually pilot the ship). A mistake would be preety expensive - the whole ship & setup is just about 100M.


Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom
I thought ccp nerfed nano? How come im seeing ishtars, huginns (and vagas, but hey, there supposed to do that aint it?) owning complete 0.0 with there nano setups? How come im still seeing (rare, i admit it) nanophoons running around? Aint it time to swing another time with the nerfbat?

Bring it onTwisted Evil


Vagas need to slow down to hit, actually shield tank, and got its dps nerfed about 20% with the arrival of overheated webs. And, as I point out in other thread, the same happened with the stabber.

Nanoships that don't have to slow down because they use drones or missiles, those are different. In fact, the speed race speed tanks far worse than the others right now.

As far as nanophoons go, well, I guess everyone has their weird setup :) They don't work remotely close as well as they did, and when you add the lows with damage mods (which are 50% effective) you can either fit a crappy tank or put some speed mods and hope to get out of the firing line.

arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Reem Fairchild
They brought down the inertial stabilizer super weapon and made the way overdrives, nanofibers, and inertial stabilizers work a lot simpler and more logical.

I love the way nerf whine cycles go.

"Oh, it's overpowered. Nerf it"

*few months of whining*

*nerf*

"Oh damn, it's been nerfed. Now it's totally worthless. You can't do it at all anymore."

*few months go by*

*smart people realize that it is still perfectly doable and quite effective*

*loads of people start doing it*

"It's overpowered. Nerf it."


Yeah, it should be nerfed more, verry simple. Only way to catch a nanoguy is to have a huginn in your gang, and if you go solo you'll be ****ed anyway. Problem with nano is, is that the nano guy can pick the fights. If he sees a huginn he'll run. Its not fair, its overpowered, its simple as that. Full stop. Plz, ccp, give the nerfbat another swing.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:00:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/09/2007 12:01:04
Originally by: arbalesttom

Yeah, it should be nerfed more, verry simple. Only way to catch a nanoguy is to have a huginn in your gang,



You're better off with a Rapier, nobody is stupid enough to attack a Huggin (not just nano-ships). It's like trying to attack a Brutix with a Rifter; you don't do it, because it's suicide. Or should pilots just suicide against your gang?

At any rate, minmatar and gallente recons in tandem are really, really, really nasty for stopping ships. Also, your own fast ships. Your gang isn't composed of 100% slow ships, is it? If it is, then you just met a gang made to counter you...

Originally by: arbalesttom

and if you go solo you'll be ****ed anyway.



Not necessarily. Solo nanoships can be deterred in various ways - and if you're complaining about nano-gangs, then why are you stating 'solo' as any argument?

Originally by: arbalesttom

Problem with nano is, is that the nano guy can pick the fights.



I pick my fights when I fly *any* ship. I'll pick my fights if I'm flying the Rifter. You're probably referring to the ability to bugger off if the fight starts going bad. You could do this with a full damp/ECM setup - and while you are going to say 'it nerfs the rest of my setup', well, so does nano-ing. A sniper BS can also run when the fight goes bad (unless 50 ships start firing simultaneously)... in fact, everything which isn't tackled can.

Originally by: arbalesttom

If he sees a huginn he'll run. Its not fair, its overpowered, its simple as that.


What's overpowered about running when you see a Huggin? I also run in a frig/cruiser/BC when I see Huggins. Pilot showing a modicum of intelligence is overpowered?

If everyone is so afraid of Huggins, aren't they overpowered? Very Happy

Besides, try Rapiers. They can use the covops cloak for a reason.

At any rate, are you trying to incite flames, or are you really saying that nanos are overpowered because they run from their counters?

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:01:00 - [8]
 

Imho the nano needs a huge slap with the nerfbat. I don't mind frigates doing these stunts, but cruiser sized (and larger) ships should simply not be able to speedtank against everything. Even the Vaga should not.
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me, since I am now in 0.0, and every single hostile I see is in a ship going 3000+, and there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers). EW works well enough to make them impotent, but it does not help kill them so they will just be back later.
I don't care whether the nerf comes in the form of missiles with higher explosion velocity, turret ammo with a serious tracking boost, or a reduction of the speed on these ships (my favorite is removal or at least serious ner***e of 10 and 100mn MWDs), or the mysterious Graviton beam, but something needs to be done about these ships that are far too close to being invulnerable.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:09:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me
... there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart ... except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers).


Make the best possible web 50% and then we've got a deal.

Also, why are you crying that you can't kill them, then list a counter?

Why are you complaining about them not having a counter and then complaining about them running from their counter?


Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:12:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Imho the nano needs a huge slap with the nerfbat. I don't mind frigates doing these stunts, but cruiser sized (and larger) ships should simply not be able to speedtank against everything. Even the Vaga should not.

Ok, everybody, repeat after me. The Vaga does NOT speed tank. Every time it turns on the MWD, it CANNOT hit. Unlike other ships that use missiles and drones and can afford to maintain high speeds and still ganking happily.


Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me
... there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart ... except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers).


Make the best possible web 50% and then we've got a deal.

Also, why are you crying that you can't kill them, then list a counter?

Why are you complaining about them not having a counter and then complaining about them running from their counter?




Because people want to be able to kill anything they come across without having to change ships or fittings. Smile

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me
... there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart ... except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers).


Make the best possible web 50% and then we've got a deal.

Also, why are you crying that you can't kill them, then list a counter?

Why are you complaining about them not having a counter and then complaining about them running from their counter?


Because the counter does not kill them just scares them away?

Quote:
Because people want to be able to kill anything they come across without having to change ships or fittings. Smile


In a way you are right. Though it is not about not having to change ships or fittings, but about the availability of the counter. Now if you give everyone minmatar cruiser 5, then we've got a deal Razz

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:35:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Trishan on 27/09/2007 12:37:30
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me
... there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart ... except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers).


Make the best possible web 50% and then we've got a deal.

Also, why are you crying that you can't kill them, then list a counter?

Why are you complaining about them not having a counter and then complaining about them running from their counter?


Because the counter does not kill them just scares them away?

Quote:
Because people want to be able to kill anything they come across without having to change ships or fittings. Smile


In a way you are right. Though it is not about not having to change ships or fittings, but about the availability of the counter. Now if you give everyone minmatar cruiser 5, then we've got a deal Razz

- Blahblahblah safespot blahblahblah counter probe them

- Now, if you give everyone probing skills 5, then we've got a deal.


BTW, this thread is proof that you don't know what you are doing. A few slow ships can hit and kill a nanowhatever if they stop using silly powerball+f1-f8. Start flying one and you'll see how to do it, maybe.

Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:36:00 - [14]
 

Can we please put in a filter to delete all those whining threads automatically? Rolling Eyes

Sure, Nano-Ships are annoying, but you don't loose any fight against them, if you're not an complete idiot.

They can run, but they cannot kill you, as their DPS (when solo) is not breaking a BC or BS tank.

If they fly in gangs, well, then they should be able to beat the hell out of you.

Think: 10 Interceptors vs. your BS... You should have no chance at all either!

AGAIN. Nano-Ships are annoying but not overpowered!

Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.09.27 12:56:00 - [15]
 

Nano-Ishtars are not overpowered. In order to be effective with their speed tank they have to stay outside of webrange.

This means they can't effectively scoop and redeploy their drones, as closing range brings them into neut/nos/web range.

This gives you the perfect opportunity to web and kill the drones. The ishtar itself does hardly any damage at all, as with a nanofit it usually fields just 3 150mm small turrets.


Culitza
Posted - 2007.09.27 13:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Imho the nano needs a huge slap with the nerfbat. I don't mind frigates doing these stunts, but cruiser sized (and larger) ships should simply not be able to speedtank against everything. Even the Vaga should not.
The nano-craze has pretty much destroyed PvP for me, since I am now in 0.0, and every single hostile I see is in a ship going 3000+, and there is pretty much no way of actually killing them if they are smart except your own nanocrap gang (they just run from Huginns/Rapiers). EW works well enough to make them impotent, but it does not help kill them so they will just be back later.
I don't care whether the nerf comes in the form of missiles with higher explosion velocity, turret ammo with a serious tracking boost, or a reduction of the speed on these ships (my favorite is removal or at least serious ner***e of 10 and 100mn MWDs), or the mysterious Graviton beam, but something needs to be done about these ships that are far too close to being invulnerable.



would u like some cheese to go with that whine ? Rolling Eyes

Im Amarr and training minnie cruiser V and gallente cruiser V. If u train only one race then dont whine about the other races' bonuses when u actually have no ideea of their downsides.

nano-ships are not overpowered, it's just their role in the game ( "guerilla warfare" isnt in their description just cuz it sounds cool, it actually means something )

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.09.27 13:17:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Avataris
Nano-Ishtars are not overpowered. In order to be effective with their speed tank they have to stay outside of webrange.

This means they can't effectively scoop and redeploy their drones, as closing range brings them into neut/nos/web range.

This gives you the perfect opportunity to web and kill the drones. The ishtar itself does hardly any damage at all, as with a nanofit it usually fields just 3 150mm small turrets.




True. My only encounter with a nano-ishtar where I couldn't run (was sitting at a gate with high-sec on the other side, and me being flashing red) was in a Hurricane (fully tanked, though).

I didn't even have T2 medium ACs at the time - I'm doing about 20% more damage and 5% more tank now - but I was able to drive him off by killing about 8-9 drones before he buggered out. Had to spend half of my cap boosters, though, but very likely he spent a lot of his as well...



MrTripps
Gallente
Hedonistic Squirrels
Posted - 2007.09.27 13:45:00 - [18]
 

You can choose to:
1. Nanno raid
2. Gate camp
3. Blob

Welcome to Eve PVP.

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.09.27 14:39:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Avataris
Nano-Ishtars are not overpowered. In order to be effective with their speed tank they have to stay outside of webrange.

This means they can't effectively scoop and redeploy their drones, as closing range brings them into neut/nos/web range.

This gives you the perfect opportunity to web and kill the drones. The ishtar itself does hardly any damage at all, as with a nanofit it usually fields just 3 150mm small turrets.


Ah, they're not overpowered, but sure they haven't been affected by overheated webs as much. It gets the same dps by having to orbit 3km further away, once out of non overheated web range the drones probably won't be webbed, and if you are webbing the drones you aren't webbing the ship.

What will happen when the scoop + redeploy thing stops working and drone bays get changed, who knows.

LeMoose
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.09.27 14:54:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: MrTripps
You can choose to:
1. Nanno raid
2. Gate camp
3. Blob

Welcome to Eve PVP.


or "solo" in a faction fitted bs with 24 cov op alts

Tomsudy
Minmatar
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2007.09.27 15:04:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom
I thought ccp nerfed nano? How come im seeing ishtars, huginns (and vagas, but hey, there supposed to do that aint it?) owning complete 0.0 with there nano setups? How come im still seeing (rare, i admit it) nanophoons running around? Aint it time to swing another time with the nerfbat?

Bring it onTwisted Evil


This getting old and boring go away

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.09.27 15:19:00 - [22]
 

On average my nano ships+fittings cost 300m. The Snakes in my head cost a lot more than that.

Those of you crying for a nerf, give me a break. Pwning doesn't come cheap. It's not like you can just put a few istabs on these days. Polycarbs are 40m each, you usually need a faction disruptor, top nav/cap skills.... and the risk of losing over 1b in your clone every time you go for a spin.

Besides, there are counters... it's just that everyone insists on flying Gallente close range ships in 50% of pvp. There are ships/guns that can track a nanoship. I could see giving precision heavy missiles a bit of a boost though.

Illyria Ambri
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.27 15:32:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kruel
On average my nano ships+fittings cost 300m. The Snakes in my head cost a lot more than that.

Those of you crying for a nerf, give me a break. Pwning doesn't come cheap. It's not like you can just put a few istabs on these days. Polycarbs are 40m each, you usually need a faction disruptor, top nav/cap skills.... and the risk of losing over 1b in your clone every time you go for a spin.

Besides, there are counters... it's just that everyone insists on flying Gallente close range ships in 50% of pvp. There are ships/guns that can track a nanoship. I could see giving precision heavy missiles a bit of a boost though.


The costs to speedtank are immaterial
The results of speed tanking is an obvious "I win" button

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.09.27 15:42:00 - [24]
 

Rapiers.

Cloaks.

Element of surprise.

or:

Overheated webs + good piloting.

also:

nanoships generally have poor dps, poor tanks, poor overall hp because their slots are all used up with speed.

Everything has a counter, work out how to counter it instead of whining.

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:08:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Drek Grapper on 27/09/2007 16:09:29
Nerf gatecamps and blobs....i can't kill them and have lost a few ships to them as well. NERF!!!!! Rolling Eyes

On a more serious note i think speed implants need to be looked at though.

Apolloe
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:20:00 - [26]
 

Stop whining and bring a ****ing webber. The guys are speed tanked. Once their speed is gone...duh....I don't know....no tank (?)....duuuuuuuuuuh...

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

The costs to speedtank are immaterial
The results of speed tanking is an obvious "I win" button



So you think a 200m ship+pod should be on par with a 2b ship+pod?

Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:16:00 - [28]
 

I guess some people won't happy until it's impossible to go anywhere in 0.0 without assistance of

Teh Bl0b!!

Tell you what.. why not make all the ships stationary.

Yeah - cause that will be way more fun.


arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:37:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Apolloe
Stop whining and bring a ****ing webber. The guys are speed tanked. Once their speed is gone...duh....I don't know....no tank (?)....duuuuuuuuuuh...


Dont talk crap. They'll orbit you at more than 20km, so webbers dont help. Its verry clear nano still is the i-win button. And yes, if you put 300mill in a ship and alot more in snakes, you should be verry, verry good, not ****ing immortal.

Nerf plz

Brisco County
The Shadow Plague
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:59:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Avataris
I guess some people won't happy until it's impossible to go anywhere in 0.0 without assistance of

Teh Bl0b!!

Tell you what.. why not make all the ships stationary.

Yeah - cause that will be way more fun.




this guy's got the right idea. We'll also need a jetcan full of pies we can fling at eachother. The 3 Stooges expansion is going to be freakin awesome!


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