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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:41:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 16:41:23
Originally by: Krulla
Edited by: Krulla on 27/09/2007 16:39:49
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 16:12:48
Quote:
No, it doesn't. You of all Repub brainwashed lemmings should realize this. Reagan taught us this. You simply make the cost so high that the common man no longer hears the shrieking of the cleric. All they see is the bleak, inevitable reality of a tombstone, and the pain and suffering that will be heaped upon the survivors. Convince them that their acts won't even slow the juggernaut that is <insert here>. The 1%ers, True Believers, will not be swayed, but they will lose their base in the society at large. Eventually the common folk turn on them, and then they've failed.


I'm sorry, but the "common folk" in the ME simply do not do this.

Why? Because God's will comes before anything else...

If you can't this, you're simply ignorant or you choose not to see it...


Holy ****ing hell, Arabs aren't another species. They're brains are wired the same way as yours is, they need oxygen to survive, they need food not to starve, they like ****ing other people, and they die if they're village is carpet bombed just like you do.

Despite what the brainwashed part of the western culture believes (chief amongst them you), your average muslim is no more a religious fanatic than your average christian.

Those "clerics" you like talking about are preaching about going out there and kicking some pasty white westerner butt simply because the west has been in the middle east kicking up dust and peeing into the soup for decades now. **** really started to hit the fan when the UN decided to call the best and most habitable, fertile farmland in Palestine "Israel", and kick the natives who had been living there for thousands of years out in favour of another nation who immigrated in there. We've been ****ing they're **** up since, Israel, or the US have been at war with someone or another in the ME almost since Israel was formed.

If we would maybe just start to leave them jolly well alone, stop taking they're land, stop stealing they're oil, stop dropping bombs on they're villages, stop sending troops into sovereign states in the ME at random while making up lame excuses (Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11? Give me a break. Neither of these had any connection to Osama Bin Laden), they just might stop fighting back.

If the US would spend 1/5th of the cost of the war in Iraq on financial, social, economical aid to the Arab nations that are worst off, there would be no need for this whole ****ing war business. They'd be grateful for the help, and no moron will bite the hand that feeds him.

But no, Dubya and pals need an excuse to make arms dealers rich and remove your freedoms through the guise of "national security", and as a bonus, they get all that tasty oil.


And you honestly believe if we left them alone, those clerics & dictators would have the best interests of those people in their hearts?

C'mon!!!

JESUS!

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:43:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
We need to give the "common folk" as you call them more hope! So they will turn away from the despair the clerics are preaching to them...

Nothing gives "common folk" more hope than having freedom to live the life they want, regardless of what their clerics tell them... We need to get all TV stations in there, internet pawn, everything!

We need to give them more choices than death for supporting the US, or death by martyrdom fighting the US...


You're not understanding. You improve their lot in life slowly. You build infrastructure, medical, education. Simultaneously, you crush any and all dissent with the ugliest boot you own. Carrot. And. Stick. This is how Rome built itself. This is how you build allies instead of terrorist hotbeds. The force multiplier that is guerilla warfare means nothing when you decimate the locals. (In the literal sense. Decimate = to eliminate one tenth.) This is especially effective if you separate the builder from the attacker.

They see life improving in bits and pieces at the hand of the occupier, and every terrorist attack results in the deaths of hundreds. The Army Corps of Engineers is handing out water, but when AQI attacks, the Black Guard burn the neighborhood down. They see that if they embrace change that they will gain, and that those who don't lose. They'll start selling out their neighbors in the interest of self preservation and furthering themselves.

If you're gonna pretend you're a hardcore conservative, think like a real one. Spouting this neo-con BS cheapens yourself. Man up or shut up.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:46:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: DarkMatter
We need to give the "common folk" as you call them more hope! So they will turn away from the despair the clerics are preaching to them...

Nothing gives "common folk" more hope than having freedom to live the life they want, regardless of what their clerics tell them... We need to get all TV stations in there, internet pawn, everything!

We need to give them more choices than death for supporting the US, or death by martyrdom fighting the US...


You're not understanding. You improve their lot in life slowly. You build infrastructure, medical, education. Simultaneously, you crush any and all dissent with the ugliest boot you own. Carrot. And. Stick. This is how Rome built itself. This is how you build allies instead of terrorist hotbeds. The force multiplier that is guerilla warfare means nothing when you decimate the locals. (In the literal sense. Decimate = to eliminate one tenth.) This is especially effective if you separate the builder from the attacker.

They see life improving in bits and pieces at the hand of the occupier, and every terrorist attack results in the deaths of hundreds. The Army Corps of Engineers is handing out water, but when AQI attacks, the Black Guard burn the neighborhood down. They see that if they embrace change that they will gain, and that those who don't lose. They'll start selling out their neighbors in the interest of self preservation and furthering themselves.

If you're gonna pretend you're a hardcore conservative, think like a real one. Spouting this neo-con BS cheapens yourself. Man up or shut up.


LOL, don't you think we'd be doing this if we could???

Obviously, we don't have a big enough boot, or deep enough wallet... And there is no one else who is going to help...

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:46:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
And you honestly believe if we left them alone, those clerics & dictators would have the best interests of those people in their hearts?

C'mon!!!

JESUS!


Yes.

Why do you think they are preaching about going and killing you dead? Because you've been making good progress killing them dead.

Islam isn't a evil religion, no matter what the media might have to say. Religion has never been the reason for any political actions, it's always been an excuse.

Christians used religion as an excuse to invade the Ottoman empire, and called it a "Crusade". I bet the arabs at the time thought all christians were warmongering savages lead by evil clercs preaching on about how they should kill all muslims.

If you start helping these poor people instead of bombing them to ****, then they'll stop listening to the extremist nutcases. It's as simple as that. People turn to fundamentalism and terrorism when all hope is lost. People don't blow themselves up because the big dude in the sky told them to, people blow themselves up because they have nothing to live for, they have lost everything, and they just want revenge on they're perceived enemy.

Also, please respond with facts and logic, instead of just sprouting what you've been trained like a good little monkey to do. You may find it interesting.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:49:00 - [95]
 

Quote:
If you start helping these poor people instead of bombing them to ****, then they'll stop listening to the extremist nutcases.


Yeah, oil for food program... That worked...

I'm sorry, but leaving them alone, and sending economic aid will only bring about another S@ddam...

I'd love to help the people, unfortunately the help is never given to them if there is a dictatorship in the middle...

Ixianus
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:53:00 - [96]
 

This is dumb.

Honestly, if you guys cant see the continuing eroding of American's rights then you're rather blind.

We have a president who declares himself above the constitution, through wiretapping and similar schlock, were fighting an illegitimate "war" in Iraq, the entire planet is overheating, and meanwhile there are still some who like to stare up at the sky and say "lalalala not happening lalalala."

With all these new means of watching comes all sorts of new means of abusing power. Don't like a political rival? Declare them a terrorist and listen to their phone calls, for national security of course. Don't like that guy John down the road? Well search his house to see if we can find anything, we had reason to believe he was a terrorist afterall. Etc etc etc.

Boo to nonsense.

(Waits for typical stupid conservative rep. comments)

Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:54:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Krulla

Holy ****ing hell, Arabs aren't another species. They're brains are wired the same way as yours is, they need oxygen to survive, they need food not to starve, they like ****ing other people, and they die if they're village is carpet bombed just like you do.

Despite what the brainwashed part of the western culture believes (chief amongst them you), your average muslim is no more a religious fanatic than your average christian.

Those "clerics" you like talking about are preaching about going out there and kicking some pasty white westerner butt simply because the west has been in the middle east kicking up dust and peeing into the soup for decades now. **** really started to hit the fan when the UN decided to call the best and most habitable, fertile farmland in Palestine "Israel", and kick the natives who had been living there for thousands of years out in favour of another nation who immigrated in there. We've been ****ing they're **** up since, Israel, or the US have been at war with someone or another in the ME almost since Israel was formed.

If we would maybe just start to leave them jolly well alone, stop taking they're land, stop stealing they're oil, stop dropping bombs on they're villages, stop sending troops into sovereign states in the ME at random while making up lame excuses (Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11? Give me a break. Neither of these had any connection to Osama Bin Laden), they just might stop fighting back.

If the US would spend 1/5th of the cost of the war in Iraq on financial, social, economical aid to the Arab nations that are worst off, there would be no need for this whole ****ing war business. They'd be grateful for the help, and no moron will bite the hand that feeds him.

But no, Dubya and pals need an excuse to make arms dealers rich and remove your freedoms through the guise of "national security", and as a bonus, they get all that tasty oil.


I kind of understand the point you're making and agree not every Muslim is a fanatic, but their culture is far more driven by religion than most other nations. They want an Islamic Government Modeled after the Quran.

Even with the state the US is in, it's still secular. The Founders of this nation believed in total seperation of church and state, and those principles remain intact. But yes religious people exist and have a right to be involved in a political process, so this may skews one ability to keep politics secular as well.

Now why the hate towards the US? That's most likely a US blunder, we should have just not intervened in the region. I hate to make this swooping generalization, but I'm going to do it anyway. You really can't talk sense to a religiously fanatic base. Yes there's sensible people in the Middle East, but they are the silent majority. On the other hand you have some Fanatic Vocal Minority that really runs the show. I mean just at the Taliban, a small group of religious nuts ran a nation. The US has done alot with it's Foriegn interventions to spark and incite hatred of the US amongst these whack jobs, we've even created a few. If you look at Afganistan 10-15 years ago with was a pretty liberal place, then the minority took over and it became a nightmare. Such a huge transformation in such a small period of time is astonishing, and a testament to how driven these fanatical nuts are. One thing is for sure these nuts don't have the interest of people in their mind, and if the US hadn't incited hatred they would have just targetted something else.

Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:54:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Krulla

If we would maybe just start to leave them jolly well alone, stop taking they're land, stop stealing they're oil, stop dropping bombs on they're villages, stop sending troops into sovereign states in the ME at random while making up lame excuses (Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11? Give me a break. Neither of these had any connection to Osama Bin Laden), they just might stop fighting back.

But no, Dubya and pals need an excuse to make arms dealers rich and remove your freedoms through the guise of "national security", and as a bonus, they get all that tasty oil.


Next time, please issue a "Tin Foil" hat alert next time you post.

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:55:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
If you start helping these poor people instead of bombing them to ****, then they'll stop listening to the extremist nutcases.


Yeah, oil for food program... That worked...

I'm sorry, but leaving them alone, and sending economic aid will only bring about another S@ddam...

I'd love to help the people, unfortunately the help is never given to them if there is a dictatorship in the middle...


Look at Saudi Arabia. It's a rich country, and the standard of living for your average Saudi is pretty decent, not quite on par with Europe or North America, but still pretty good.

Saudis are cool with the western world. They trade with us, they even let the USA have army bases there, and they don't go around beheading US soldiers and broadcast it on the internet. YET SAUDI ARABIA IS ALSO A MUSLIM NATION AND A VERY DEVOUT ONE AT THAT, JUST LIKE IRAN, IRAQ, JORDAN, ETCETERA! Why don't they go around blowing up jews, americans, and europeans? BECAUSE THEY JOLLY WELL HAVE NO REASON TO BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY ARAB NATION WE'RE ON FRIENDLY TERMS WITH AND WE HAVENT' BLOWN ANY OF THEY'RE **** UP YET.

YOU DO THE MATH HERE.

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:55:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Krulla

If we would maybe just start to leave them jolly well alone, stop taking they're land, stop stealing they're oil, stop dropping bombs on they're villages, stop sending troops into sovereign states in the ME at random while making up lame excuses (Invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11? Give me a break. Neither of these had any connection to Osama Bin Laden), they just might stop fighting back.

But no, Dubya and pals need an excuse to make arms dealers rich and remove your freedoms through the guise of "national security", and as a bonus, they get all that tasty oil.


Next time, please issue a "Tin Foil" hat alert next time you post.



Sorry, Jim McGregor is hogging all the tin foil hats. Sad

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:56:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Ixianus
This is dumb.

Honestly, if you guys cant see the continuing eroding of American's rights then you're rather blind.

We have a president who declares himself above the constitution, through wiretapping and similar schlock, were fighting an illegitimate "war" in Iraq, the entire planet is overheating, and meanwhile there are still some who like to stare up at the sky and say "lalalala not happening lalalala."

With all these new means of watching comes all sorts of new means of abusing power. Don't like a political rival? Declare them a terrorist and listen to their phone calls, for national security of course. Don't like that guy John down the road? Well search his house to see if we can find anything, we had reason to believe he was a terrorist afterall. Etc etc etc.

Boo to nonsense.

(Waits for typical stupid conservative rep. comments)


Don't worry, when Hillary becomes president, she will make sure the terrorists can talk to anyone they please in this country. Their conversations will be private, and protected by our constitution, the same constitution said terrorists want to see burn...

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.09.27 16:59:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Krulla on 27/09/2007 17:00:18
Originally by: DarkMatter
Don't worry, when Hillary becomes president, she will make sure the terrorists can talk to anyone they please in this country. Their conversations will be private, and protected by our constitution, the same constitution said terrorists want to see burn...


Let's see here.

A group of middle eastern people blows up two big impressive buildings, and kill a couple of thousand Americans. They are terrorists.

An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.

During World War II, resistance fighters in **** occupied countries used the exact same tactics as "terrorists" do today. They were also labeled "terrorists" by the **** government. Yet, today they are hailed as freedom fighters.

It all depends on who'se side you are on.

Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:01:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Ixianus
This is dumb.

Honestly, if you guys cant see the continuing eroding of American's rights then you're rather blind.

We have a president who declares himself above the constitution, through wiretapping and similar schlock, were fighting an illegitimate "war" in Iraq, the entire planet is overheating, and meanwhile there are still some who like to stare up at the sky and say "lalalala not happening lalalala."

With all these new means of watching comes all sorts of new means of abusing power. Don't like a political rival? Declare them a terrorist and listen to their phone calls, for national security of course. Don't like that guy John down the road? Well search his house to see if we can find anything, we had reason to believe he was a terrorist afterall. Etc etc etc.

Boo to nonsense.

(Waits for typical stupid conservative rep. comments)


Don't worry, when Hillary becomes president, she will make sure the terrorists can talk to anyone they please in this country. Their conversations will be private, and protected by our constitution, the same constitution said terrorists want to see burn...


if, for whatever reason, hillary does NOT become president, I expect you to start a thread about it DM, so we can discuss it.

can you pen that up in your to-do list for 2008? Question

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:01:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
LOL, don't you think we'd be doing this if we could???

Obviously, we don't have a big enough boot, or deep enough wallet... And there is no one else who is going to help...


We do. Our government has sold us to the corporate vultures. Be loyal to the Constitution. Their time will come.

"No one else is coming to help..." What milksop sniveling. We help ourselves.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:03:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:06:13
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:04:23
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of the people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens, and those were NOT American soldiers.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...

Quote:
if, for whatever reason, hillary does NOT become president, I expect you to start a thread about it DM, so we can discuss it.

can you pen that up in your to-do list for 2008?


She will be president, there is no doubt...

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:09:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:04:23
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of their own people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...


Hatred for your country? No? I have relatives who are American. My grandmother's sister married a italian-descended US soldier when they had a garrison here in Iceland. I really enjoy visiting America, and the people there are on the whole nice and thoughtful people. I also work with a American, and he's one of the most considerate people you'll ever meet.

I have nothing against the people of the USA, I do however have a bone to pick with it's government.

And suicide bombers do not, generally, target civilians. They generally target western troops, and any civilian casualities that get caught in between they consider irrelevant. That's at least what they usually do in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, attacks such as 9/11 targeted civilians. Those I find even more abhorrent, as the objective isn't even to attack opposing combatants.

I think suicide bombing is one of the most abhorrent and vile things humanity has ever cooked up from the recess of it's disgusting little psyche.

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:12:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of their own people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...



I do recall one story at the beginning of our Iraq invasion where the terrorist had lined up women and children making a human shield. They then fired at us from behind the shield and not having a choice we fired back.
What they were trying to do was spout out that we were killing women and children at random, or trying to use our rules of engagement against us.

But I haven't heard of us blowing up entire cities, got links? If not, I've got a USMC friend who's finally back that I can ask.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:18:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:19:20
Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:04:23
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of their own people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...


Hatred for your country? No? I have relatives who are American. My grandmother's sister married a italian-descended US soldier when they had a garrison here in Iceland. I really enjoy visiting America, and the people there are on the whole nice and thoughtful people. I also work with a American, and he's one of the most considerate people you'll ever meet.

I have nothing against the people of the USA, I do however have a bone to pick with it's government.

And suicide bombers do not, generally, target civilians. They generally target western troops, and any civilian casualities that get caught in between they consider irrelevant. That's at least what they usually do in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, attacks such as 9/11 targeted civilians. Those I find even more abhorrent, as the objective isn't even to attack opposing combatants.

I think suicide bombing is one of the most abhorrent and vile things humanity has ever cooked up from the recess of it's disgusting little psyche.


2-3000 Iraqi civilians are dying per month. The US military is not directly killing them... And if they happen to die because of us, it's not because we targeted civilians. Who's killing them then?

Granted sectarian violence is causing most of those deaths, but if you want to put the US military ahead of terrorists on that list, I disagree with you.

And why do Shiite & Sunni kill each other? Pure religious differences... Their GOD comes first, this is why they won't take the bull by the horns and grab their country and make it their own... They are too preoccupied with following the clerics' teachings, going out and killing their own countrymen because of religion...

Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:20:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:06:13
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:04:23
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of the people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens, and those were NOT American soldiers.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...

Quote:
if, for whatever reason, hillary does NOT become president, I expect you to start a thread about it DM, so we can discuss it.

can you pen that up in your to-do list for 2008?


She will be president, there is no doubt...


agreed. The USMC doesnt target civvies intentionally, they sometimes just are a little too easygoing on who they label as insurgents. this is kind of ****ed up and sad, but nonetheless I do understand the situation: the marines walk around a city where 3 feet from a smiling kid there is a guy walking towards them with a bombbelt.... Imagine how etxremely paranoid that would make you.

The insurgents on the other hand, sunni and shiite, keep on blowing eachother up, with the USMC in the middle, in the name of their religion, which basically is a difference in opinion in which prophet was actually a prophet: in basic essence thats all the sunni and shiites disagree upon. Later laws and more viewpoints were added to this, but its just as sad as different christian sects killing eachother for no better reason than a disagreement on wether jesus owned his own clothes. unfortunately Islam was founded 600 years later, so the muslims are just getting around to infighting: only this is the modern age and they use AKs and C4 instead of spears, poisoned wells and swords.

The US are in the middle of what is essentially a religious civil war and arent going to better or worsen what has already been created. They are doing the best they can ATM. every movie I see on youtube with some marine yelling: get some get some, die die die is still a little shocking though. but then I think: those grunts on the floor are what, 20 years old?

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:23:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Krulla

I have nothing against the people of the USA, I do however have a bone to pick with it's government.


Cheers to you bud, finally atleast one person who can tell the difference between a country and it's people.

Originally by: Krulla
And suicide bombers do not, generally, target civilians. They generally target western troops, and any civilian casualities that get caught in between they consider irrelevant. That's at least what they usually do in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, attacks such as 9/11 targeted civilians. Those I find even more abhorrent, as the objective isn't even to attack opposing combatants.


Heres a Link. I see these articles all week long. 28 dead, 56 dead, 32 wounded, 148 wounded. They hit local shopping areas, they hit religious buildings, they hit UN buildings. It's pretty brutal over there. I've gotten alot of horror stories last week from a bud who just came back.

[quote-Krulla]I think suicide bombing is one of the most abhorrent and vile things humanity has ever cooked up from the recess of it's disgusting little psyche.


Agreed.

Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:27:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:04:23
Quote:
An entire army of Americans, with a splattering of random EU and other "coalition" troops attack two arab nations and blow up entire cities and kill hundreds of thousands. They are heroes come to liberate the oppressed.


We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.

The majority of their own people who were killed in this war, were killed by the same people who killed American citizens.

The only time we kill civilians is when someone makes a mistake. If a suicide bomber doesn't kill enough civilians, in the eyes of his GOD, he has made a mistake, as a collaborator is a higher order infidel.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. Your hatred for my country has removed any common sense you may have once had...


Hatred for your country? No? I have relatives who are American. My grandmother's sister married a italian-descended US soldier when they had a garrison here in Iceland. I really enjoy visiting America, and the people there are on the whole nice and thoughtful people. I also work with a American, and he's one of the most considerate people you'll ever meet.

I have nothing against the people of the USA, I do however have a bone to pick with it's government.

And suicide bombers do not, generally, target civilians. They generally target western troops, and any civilian casualities that get caught in between they consider irrelevant. That's at least what they usually do in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, attacks such as 9/11 targeted civilians. Those I find even more abhorrent, as the objective isn't even to attack opposing combatants.

I think suicide bombing is one of the most abhorrent and vile things humanity has ever cooked up from the recess of it's disgusting little psyche.


Krulla.... the suicide bombers are far more nasty and vicious than you and I can imagine. They are raised from birth, indoctrinated, to believe that blowing yourself up in the middle of a market, during the busiest part of the day (which is what happens mostly), is the best thing you can do with your life. They are the true essence of the first meaning of the word terrorism, and are basically people who have no chance at life: their parents, their clergy, their peers mold them from inception to be mindless killers who yell allah before squeezing a detonator.

The second meaning of the word is what the US government us currently doing in its own country: homeland security. Everyone is SO scared of terrorists, that the government have passed laws enabling them to hold any person at will, without trial, without evidence, without charges, without license; They can search your house, freeze your funds and torture you at will. all you ever read about is how some terrorist suspect is carted off.... you never read about what actually happens to them, or their trial, or their sentence. Fact is, most are released because they arent terrorists: but no one reads about that.

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:33:00 - [112]
 

Hey Corn, A supreme judge overruled parts of the patriot act. Heres the link to it.

Originally by: Micheal Dietrich

V for Vendetta?

And as long as we're on the subject of privacy invasion.
I'm sure that would otherwise be mysteriously overlooked.

Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:34:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.


Erm... might this be a good time to bring up the subject of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

OK, it's a while back, but perhaps a citizen of the only country to ever use the Atomic Bomb against a largely civilian target (twice!!) shouldn't be so quick to forget.






Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:34:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 27/09/2007 17:35:53
Originally by: Krulla

Saudis are cool with the western world.... BECAUSE THEY JOLLY WELL HAVE NO REASON TO BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY ARAB NATION WE'RE ON FRIENDLY TERMS WITH AND WE HAVENT' BLOWN ANY OF THEY'RE **** UP YET.

YOU DO THE MATH HERE.


Would you look at a map for God's Sake (or Allah's)? You know extremely little about middle eastern politics to make such a naive statement.

When you make a post like this, and then make another post that suicide bombers only try to target troops, I wonder just what your news sources are. Do they have an english tranlation? I would like to read them. I do try to read foreign news reports, and it is amusing to see their lack of knowledge about the US itself revealed, and how much of the news if filtered. I do get broadcasts of the BBC where I live and I get a chuckle every time they do a story about the US.


Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:37:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: DarkMatter
We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.


Erm... might this be a good time to bring up the subject of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

OK, it's a while back, but perhaps a citizen of the only country to ever use the Atomic Bomb against a largely civilian target (twice!!) shouldn't be so quick to forget.








uhm.... Dresden, London, Tokyo, Rotterdam: firebombing cities was an accepted tactic back then, so this is no comparison.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:37:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:39:55
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Hey Corn, A supreme judge overruled parts of the patriot act. Heres the link to it.

Originally by: Micheal Dietrich

V for Vendetta?

And as long as we're on the subject of privacy invasion.
I'm sure that would otherwise be mysteriously overlooked.



How do you misread a fingerprint?

Don't they have computers like on TV shows to match them up in a matter of seconds?

How dare real life is not like the TV show NCIS.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:38:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 17:38:39
Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: DarkMatter
We don't target civilians, they specifically target civilians.


Erm... might this be a good time to bring up the subject of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

OK, it's a while back, but perhaps a citizen of the only country to ever use the Atomic Bomb against a largely civilian target (twice!!) shouldn't be so quick to forget.




That's how you won wars back then... It's a good thing the USA doesn't fight like that anymore, eh?

Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:41:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Hey Corn, A supreme judge overruled parts of the patriot act. Heres the link to it.

Originally by: Micheal Dietrich

V for Vendetta?

And as long as we're on the subject of privacy invasion.
I'm sure that would otherwise be mysteriously overlooked.



How do you misread a fingerprint?

Don't they have computers like on TV shows to match them up in a matter of seconds?




fingerprinting is done digitally these days: last time I was in the US I didnt get mucked about with ink, just a quick scan.

also, dietrich, the only thing that has been revoked is the search your house clause: they can still throw you into a holding cell without any cause.

Captain Hudson
Caldari
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:43:00 - [119]
 

What i don't understand is how you can wage war on 'terrorism'...it's a idea and you cant kill a idea aslong as someone is around to think about it.


P.S. I dont hate the us ffs im just asking.

Sharupak
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.27 17:44:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.


We really do need an all encompassing ID card...

Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...


For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.


...everytime you post something on this subject, the cops come jackboot your door down because you might be a terrorist.


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