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blankseplocked Why can't we get T2 bpcs from LP Store?
 
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Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 10:32:00 - [1]
 

This is something I've been wondering about for a while.

You can get bpcs of faction ships from the LP store but you can't get t2 bpcs even when you have enough LPs and standing with the relavent corps, such as Carthum Conglomerate for the amarr...

Wouldn't it make more sense for t2 bpcs to be available in this way?

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.09.20 10:34:00 - [2]
 

So....
You want to decrease the value of invented BPC even more then?...

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.09.20 10:38:00 - [3]
 

I think this is a bad idea :(.

You want some invest isk in skills, datacores and data interfaces.

Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 10:39:00 - [4]
 

Whose to say that it would be cheaper to get them through this method, it could be more expensive, but still a good use of your LPs rather than getting a now outdated faction cruiser....

Jastra
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.20 11:58:00 - [5]
 

Data interface BPCs might be worth considering though ?

Iracham
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:01:00 - [6]
 

A BPO wouldn't make sense, but I think a BPC (even multi run BPC) would be nice.

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:09:00 - [7]
 

Forget logic, reason and sencibility.

T2 has been implemented into the game via a mechanic, first it was the lottery giving BPO's, now its invention that gives BPC's.

The T2 originals and the invented T2 copies are the only sources for T2 gear.

The LP-stores have their own uniqueness in that you can purchase faction gear from them.

Thus in short:
Invention -> T2
Mission running -> faction
NPC killing -> officer
...

Its the way they have been implemented and I see no reason to change it.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:16:00 - [8]
 

When CCP implemented the LP store, they removed porposefully the T2 ship offers.

It was done to avoid a extra sorce of competition for invention.


Susan Acid
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:17:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Susan Acid on 20/09/2007 12:18:32
Maybe a 1 or 2 run BPC would be ok but they could definitely add some T2 ships to the various LP stores.

Lai Dai could have the Cerberus.Thukker gets the Vagabond,Roden the Enyo,CreDron the Ishtar and Ishkur etc

I was surprised the Corps that make the ships don't have them in the LP store as offers tbh.

*was writing as Venkul posted.I suppose that explains why.


Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:49:00 - [10]
 

Fair enough if thats the way they decided to do it, but i still think it would be nice if you could end up being offered a 1 run t2 bpc for your efforts and if it was balanced properly it wouldn't have any effect on the t2 market...

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:52:00 - [11]
 

no ! ! !
that's what invention is for

It's like accepting a L4 mission and hiring NPC's to do it for you whilst you are dockedLaughing

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2007.09.20 12:55:00 - [12]
 

If T2 ships/single run copies were available in the LP store it would have to be so heavily overnerfed (to avoid crushing invention totally) that it would be in fact, useless.

"I could buy this off the open market for 10mil, Or I could cash out 12 million worth of faction tags, a pile of t2 materials, a t1 version of the ship, not to mention the LP.. hmmm.. hard choice"

Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.09.20 13:10:00 - [13]
 

Because china farms missions.

And they would gain the power to shatter the veteran playerbase T2 cartels.

This would never be allowed.

Simple.

kimish
Posted - 2007.09.20 13:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Fester Addams
Forget logic, reason and sencibility.

T2 has been implemented into the game via a mechanic, first it was the lottery giving BPO's, now its invention that gives BPC's.

The T2 originals and the invented T2 copies are the only sources for T2 gear.

The LP-stores have their own uniqueness in that you can purchase faction gear from them.

Thus in short:
Invention -> T2
Mission running -> faction
NPC killing -> officer
...

Its the way they have been implemented and I see no reason to change it.


good point, although i think all 3 should be available though invention AND LP

Buyerr
Posted - 2007.09.20 13:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tek'a Rain
If T2 ships/single run copies were available in the LP store it would have to be so heavily overnerfed (to avoid crushing invention totally) that it would be in fact, useless.

"I could buy this off the open market for 10mil, Or I could cash out 12 million worth of faction tags, a pile of t2 materials, a t1 version of the ship, not to mention the LP.. hmmm.. hard choice"


why overnerfed?

if invention is giving what it is supposed to give in ccp's eyes this would be the same price to get.
so if t2 goes down in price some one have surely made a HELL of alot of isk from something that was too easy and too FAST to get

Hilabana
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.20 13:49:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Immaterial
This is something I've been wondering about for a while.

You can get bpcs of faction ships from the LP store but you can't get t2 bpcs even when you have enough LPs and standing with the relavent corps, such as Carthum Conglomerate for the amarr...

Wouldn't it make more sense for t2 bpcs to be available in this way?


Its called Invention so do some real work in eve and stop doing the same mission agent over and over.
People that works the labs may not do missions did you ever think of that ?
The DEV's are trying to make the game work for many type of players not just you!
Rolling Eyes

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.20 14:02:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/09/2007 14:02:55
I had cut short the previsious post, but I think that one of the reasons CCP didn't put T2 items in the LP store is to avoid giving a "NPC price" for the T2 items.

Any T2 price would have put a hard cap on the sell price of player produced T2 items. Too low and it would have nerfed invention, too high and it would give a distorted impression of the "right" value for T2 items.

A "generic" price set up, with all the frigates approximatly at the same price, would have been seriously unbalanced as the invention cost of some ship is higher (like the gallente one, where the decryptor and data interface prices are kept high by the existence of the hulk) or the sell price of other ships with very similar componets is very different (crow and raptor).

Flattening those price around the common denominator of a NPC price would have been deleterious for the market.

Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 14:03:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Immaterial on 20/09/2007 21:54:13
Edited by: Immaterial on 20/09/2007 14:14:40
Originally by: Hilabana
Originally by: Immaterial
This is something I've been wondering about for a while.

You can get bpcs of faction ships from the LP store but you can't get t2 bpcs even when you have enough LPs and standing with the relavent corps, such as Carthum Conglomerate for the amarr...

Wouldn't it make more sense for t2 bpcs to be available in this way?


Its called Invention so do some real work in eve and stop doing the same mission agent over and over.
People that works the labs may not do missions did you ever think of that ?
The DEV's are trying to make the game work for many type of players not just you!
Rolling Eyes



Thats funny cus my highest standing with any corp on any of my characters is 2.8 (with the amarr navy if your interested Razz)

So in fact this wouldn't help me at all, strangely I don't post on the forums whining for things that would help me play the game, I just play it...

I just thought that maybe just maybe a self consistant game world could be something which would be good for eve to have, [editted to be less harsh when no longer stressed at work Smile]

But alas I doubt either of these things will ever happen Rolling Eyes

And yes although invention does produce t2 bpcs i fail to see why the corps which invented these things in the first place are more than happy for other people to 'invent' them yet are not trying to make a profit themselves by selling these things to loyal pilots.

Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 14:08:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/09/2007 14:02:55
I had cut short the previsious post, but I think that one of the reasons CCP didn't put T2 items in the LP store is to avoid giving a "NPC price" for the T2 items.

Any T2 price would have put a hard cap on the sell price of player produced T2 items. Too low and it would have nerfed invention, too high and it would give a distorted impression of the "right" value for T2 items.

A "generic" price set up, with all the frigates approximatly at the same price, would have been seriously unbalanced as the invention cost of some ship is higher (like the gallente one, where the decryptor and data interface prices are kept high by the existence of the hulk) or the sell price of other ships with very similar componets is very different (crow and raptor).

Flattening those price around the common denominator of a NPC price would have been deleterious for the market.


You have a good point there, makes a nice change to see a reasoned arguement...

I suppose then if this was ever to be introduced then it might have to be at least a year after the introduction of an item as inventable to give the price a time to bed down, and then once that has happened maybe set the lp store price at 20% greater than the upper bounds of the items price variations.

Either way I still think it would be a nice addition to the game Smile


shady trader
Posted - 2007.09.20 21:25:00 - [20]
 

What about if part of the cost of the BPC was made up in data cores. Say X times the number used for invention for a BPC. This way is becomes a sure way to get a BPC however a fairly expensive one compared to invention. X would have to take into account the avange success rate with resonable skills say level 4 in each of them. This will also mean that the price will still be player controlled (Data core base price). The data cores would have to be in the correct fields.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.09.20 21:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Immaterial
Fair enough if thats the way they decided to do it, but i still think it would be nice if you could end up being offered a 1 run t2 bpc for your efforts and if it was balanced properly it wouldn't have any effect on the t2 market...


So you want CCP to add BPCs to their stores that no one will ever choose because it's cheaper to buy directly T2 stuff from the market?

Derovius Vaden
Posted - 2007.09.20 21:40:00 - [22]
 


Lets start giving out Super Capitals in the LP store too, perhaps even named items.

Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.20 21:52:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
So you want CCP to add BPCs to their stores that no one will ever choose because it's cheaper to buy directly T2 stuff from the market?


In exactly the same way that there are ships on there now that no one will ever choose cus there obsolete...

And i'm sure someone would choose them especially if it meant that they could get that hac they always wanted but could never really afford (because they could mine for the minerals instead)




Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2007.09.21 01:44:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 21/09/2007 01:45:33
No. One of the key things about T2 production is that it has little NPC involvement (except datacore and T1 BPO sources), it is mostly player driver. And for some reason they provide Construction Blocks. . .

Besides, LP store BPs would be either way too cheap or way too expensive. If they're too cheap, they kill the production market for that item (don't tell me that stuff can't be farmed that fast, if there's money there at 1000 isk/LP, people will farm it). If it's too expensive, it's worthless. Example of the second is the Buzzard offers we used to get , if we were around any trade hub. 13m worth of LP and then various materials, all for a 10m ship.

Besides, Lai Dai and Kaalakiota don't have time to copy from their BPOs, they're madly building as many T2 ships as they can to throw at the Gallente come factional warfare.

Reven Darklight
256 FREELANCERS
FREELANCER ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.09.21 06:15:00 - [25]
 

before the lp market was introduced i got an agent offer for a T2 bpc of a ceptor, can't remember which one, but it was caldari.

Not sure if i still have the bpo or if I've sold it/give it away, I might have to look around when i get home from work and see if i can make it.

The big problem with making T2 things, is not only minerals are needed, thats what has stopped me from going into the t2 building market, otherwise i think i would take on invention and making t2 ships.

Darcuese
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.09.21 06:42:00 - [26]
 

IMO, it make more sense to get any t2 BPC from RP and not from LP.

I wish CCP would enable that in near future cause i wont change it for datacores

Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.09.21 08:50:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Darcuese
IMO, it make more sense to get any t2 BPC from RP and not from LP.

I wish CCP would enable that in near future cause i wont change it for datacores


Well if us non-BoBs had alternative methods of getting T2 BPO's we would pointlessly hold on to our RP as well.

Oh wait that's all "in the past" isn't it?

Because they said it is.

After they said it didn't happen.

After they did it.

After they planned to do it.

Jog on....

Immaterial
Posted - 2007.09.21 09:09:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Gaven Blands
Originally by: Darcuese
IMO, it make more sense to get any t2 BPC from RP and not from LP.

I wish CCP would enable that in near future cause i wont change it for datacores


Well if us non-BoBs had alternative methods of getting T2 BPO's we would pointlessly hold on to our RP as well.

Oh wait that's all "in the past" isn't it?

Because they said it is.

After they said it didn't happen.

After they did it.

After they planned to do it.

Jog on....


Please do not derail this thread with stupid tinfoilhattery Evil or Very Mad


Bizz Lizz
Posted - 2007.09.21 09:26:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Darcuese
IMO, it make more sense to get any t2 BPC from RP and not from LP.

I wish CCP would enable that in near future cause i wont change it for datacores


I hope not, because RP can be farmed with alts without any work involved, after those chars got their agent standing. Such a thing shouldn't be in direct competition to invention, which relys on datacore supply and involves some work.
And of course running 3 R&D chars on one accounts to collect RP and nothing else shouldn't earn more isk, than it costs to pay an account with gtcs in the end.


And about the LP store: Eve is also a trade game. A mission runner doesn't need to get everything from his agent. That's what other players like producers and inventors are for.


 

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