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Eulalinda
Posted - 2007.09.19 07:04:00 - [1]
 

I just passed through Jita and was immediately spammed by the user "fromd".
Quote:
2007.09.19 06:52
Hi,
Thanks for you reading this letter! I have great news for you: Price for ISK in www.*****4Game.com has slashed down now....
(I masked the URL, but I'm sure you know who it is.)

Why doesn't CCP block all emails with this URL and other URLs spamming the sale of ISK? Why doesn't CCP do something about the annoying spam I get 1-5 times per week from this particular site?

Viliny
Golden Clover Astrogeologists
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2007.09.19 07:05:00 - [2]
 

For the same reason there isn't a 100% reliable spam filter for regular e-mail either is my guess.

Digital Anarchist
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.19 08:04:00 - [3]
 

Just petition it. The spammers are banned within one-two minutes. Place it under EULA violations/harassment.

Cornucopian
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.09.19 08:22:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Cornucopian on 19/09/2007 08:23:04
Originally by: Digital Anarchist
Just petition it. The spammers are banned within one-two minutes. Place it under EULA violations/harassment.


there has to be a better way than petitioning it.... every time some ISK spammer sends out a merge mail, or spams a chat channel CCP is spammed with dozens of petitions, creating even more backlog on the already strained petition system.

I would like to finally get some concerted CCP response from what they plan on doing about the mass spamming, the endless evemails, the thousands of macro miners and macro missioners (eve tribune 38 anyone?), and the level of professionality of EVE selling sites. You see sites these days (fully functional webshops) that sell every item in the game for RL cash.

Maybe some form of macro detection, MAC/ISP banning, dedicated monitors, punkbuster or at least SOME effort other than the current reactie bid by CCP. 'just petition it' is about as lacklustre as the new trinity engine if it was vesa CGA graphix...

You need to get PRO-active on this CCP.....

edit: ow, hey Eulalinda, check it out, I'm not apologizing :-) good to see you slamming the ISK sellers too Wink

Eulalinda
Posted - 2007.09.19 08:38:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Eulalinda on 19/09/2007 08:55:09
^^^ I agree. Petitioning is slow and would likely require a lot of overhead for the GMs.

Originally by: Viliny
For the same reason there isn't a 100% reliable spam filter for regular e-mail either is my guess.
But that's the point! If regular email spam ALWAYS contained the URL www.xyz.com (and xyz.com was an illegal site), then spam filters COULD be 100% reliable.

Why doesn't CCP insta-kill all emails with that URL?

It's as if CCP wants to let players discuss that particular URL via Eve mail.

Fantasia Freelance
Posted - 2007.09.20 04:37:00 - [6]
 

I just got spammed twice from "Rush777" at the site mentioned above and from "dokzl" at another site. I get one of these almost daily and it's always one of 3 websites.

You'd think blocking these emails would be simple.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2007.09.20 04:46:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 20/09/2007 04:47:20
Somebody had a thread here about SOE (not Sisters of Eve), and SWG thing, where they gave users the ability to silence the spammers for 6 hours with a single command.

I mean, yea, EVE is like metagaming heaven, but, I think that most players are mature enough not to use the feature to just cause difficulties for their enemies in game or something, and if they do, they stand a chance of loosing an account.

Pretty simple, looks to me like.

Even if they had 2 or 3 of those guys in Jita, spammer would have been silenced, GM would have investigated within hours. They would have to be real inventive, the spammers, to keep creating accounts every few minutes if Players participated in the program like one was mentioned before.

Oh, and I do not play any other MMOS other than EVE. And I only played 1 MMO before eve, EnB, so I do not know whatever drama is with SOE and SWG, but I know there was lots of it, so do not flame me, but I think it is a smart move on their part.

Leora Nomen
Amarr
Posted - 2007.09.20 05:11:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Eulalinda
Edited by: Eulalinda on 19/09/2007 08:55:09
^^^ I agree. Petitioning is slow and would likely require a lot of overhead for the GMs.

Originally by: Viliny
For the same reason there isn't a 100% reliable spam filter for regular e-mail either is my guess.
But that's the point! If regular email spam ALWAYS contained the URL www.xyz.com (and xyz.com was an illegal site), then spam filters COULD be 100% reliable.

Why doesn't CCP insta-kill all emails with that URL?

It's as if CCP wants to let players discuss that particular URL via Eve mail.


I assume they have been blocking certain URLs. The farmers started spamming recently with .(com) and .(c0m) and .(com, and .(c0m, and somewebsite+com - all kinds of different combinations. As long as trial accounts are able to spam in any chat channel - there will be spam. They will twist the names but they'll make sure to get the website name or link through.

Fantasia Freelance
Posted - 2007.09.20 05:44:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Fantasia Freelance on 20/09/2007 05:44:32
Originally by: Leora Nomen
I assume they have been blocking certain URLs. The farmers started spamming recently with .(com) and .(c0m) and .(com, and .(c0m, and somewebsite+com - all kinds of different combinations. As long as trial accounts are able to spam in any chat channel - there will be spam. They will twist the names but they'll make sure to get the website name or link through.

CCP needs to block the domain name NOT the domain name + ".com". That would solve it.

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.20 05:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 20/09/2007 04:47:20
Somebody had a thread here about SOE (not Sisters of Eve), and SWG thing, where they gave users the ability to silence the spammers for 6 hours with a single command.

I mean, yea, EVE is like metagaming heaven, but, I think that most players are mature enough not to use the feature to just cause difficulties for their enemies in game or something, and if they do, they stand a chance of loosing an account.

Pretty simple, looks to me like.

Even if they had 2 or 3 of those guys in Jita, spammer would have been silenced, GM would have investigated within hours. They would have to be real inventive, the spammers, to keep creating accounts every few minutes if Players participated in the program like one was mentioned before.

Oh, and I do not play any other MMOS other than EVE. And I only played 1 MMO before eve, EnB, so I do not know whatever drama is with SOE and SWG, but I know there was lots of it, so do not flame me, but I think it is a smart move on their part.


Sorry did you just use "mature" and "players" in the same sentence?

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2007.09.20 05:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Originally by: Jinx Barker
...Stuff...


Sorry did you just use "mature" and "players" in the same sentence?


I feel so ashamed.... Sad

But, I do want to give majority of EVE players the benefit of a doubt. We are not all ****ers, metagamers, hack-yer-enemies-ts-server, bastards? I mean... I think... Ahhh What the hell..... I do not know, I hope... we are notSmile

Fantasia Freelance
Posted - 2007.09.23 10:34:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Leora Nomen
I assume they have been blocking certain URLs. The farmers started spamming recently with .(com) and .(c0m) and .(com, and .(c0m, and somewebsite+com - all kinds of different combinations. As long as trial accounts are able to spam in any chat channel - there will be spam. They will twist the names but they'll make sure to get the website name or link through.
You know what assuming does. Smile I've recieved 5 more spam since my last post in this thread on the 20th of September. NONE of the spammers masked the URL. None of them used cute tricks for the dot com, e.g. ".c0m", "abc . com", "abc dot com", etc.

It appears that CCP doesn't care at all if ISK sellers repeatedly spam players with the same URL over and over and over. My personal spam count is over 1/day. Always one of 3 URLs.

MPaladin
Caldari
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.23 11:54:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: MPaladin on 23/09/2007 11:56:21
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 20/09/2007 04:47:20
Somebody had a thread here about SOE (not Sisters of Eve), and SWG thing, where they gave users the ability to silence the spammers for 6 hours with a single command.

I mean, yea, EVE is like metagaming heaven, but, I think that most players are mature enough not to use the feature to just cause difficulties for their enemies in game or something, and if they do, they stand a chance of loosing an account.

Pretty simple, looks to me like.


Well in the case of SWG, the credit spammers make use of trial accounts. Most likely they do the same thing here. But I think in the case of SWG now the GM's are now tracking large
Even if they had 2 or 3 of those guys in Jita, spammer would have been silenced, GM would have investigated within hours. They would have to be real inventive, the spammers, to keep creating accounts every few minutes if Players participated in the program like one was mentioned before.

Oh, and I do not play any other MMOS other than EVE. And I only played 1 MMO before eve, EnB, so I do not know whatever drama is with SOE and SWG, but I know there was lots of it, so do not flame me, but I think it is a smart move on their part.


Well I know in the case of SWG, the credit spammers were/are using the free Trial Accounts. Most likely the same is being done here as well. But I know that SWG has been instituting things to cut back and deal with credit spammers. Plus the GM's I believe are now investigating large credit transfers as well. Which can result in harsh penalties to both the giver and reciever, if it looks like it was a credit buying scheme.

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2007.09.23 13:17:00 - [14]
 

The problem is the isk buyersSad
Pilots you fly past every day are the problem, my guess is they are the ones that also are complete fools and morons in game also.

I petition every isk spammer and have waged countless campaigns against macros and isk farmers, at much isk loss to myself i might add (as sometimes it calls for suicide).

Exero's Woman
Posted - 2007.09.23 13:22:00 - [15]
 

They should make it so 14 day trials can't send eve mails.

Scordaf
Failure Assured
Posted - 2007.09.23 14:08:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
Just petition it. The spammers are banned within one-two minutes. Place it under EULA violations/harassment.


You can be pro-active about problems, or you can be reactive about problems. Petitioning is reactive. It doesn't solve the problem. In fact, it creates more work - for the player petitioning and for the GM's answering the petitions.

I don't have the answers (and I'm not getting paid to come up with them :P ), but I don't believe having to petition trial accounts is a suitable solution.

Originally by: Exero's Woman
They should make it so 14 day trials can't send eve mails.


Problem solved. Those poor trial players get it rough.

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.23 14:13:00 - [17]
 

SOLUTIONS:

1. trial accounts can't send mail
2. auto spam filter filters out repeatedly posted messages. Could also be used to filter out messages containing isk seller URLS
3. option to ignore all messages/mails/convos from trial accounts
4. ability to set CSPA above 1mil isk.

shady trader
Posted - 2007.09.23 16:13:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
SOLUTIONS:

1. trial accounts can't send mail
2. auto spam filter filters out repeatedly posted messages. Could also be used to filter out messages containing isk seller URLS
3. option to ignore all messages/mails/convos from trial accounts
4. ability to set CSPA above 1mil isk.


The only problem with that is you will get an increase in accounts that have been paied for being used for spamming. Either hacked accounts or those paid for using stolen credit card details, this was mentioned in the last dev blog (GM one I beleive it was). Isk (any in game currency) selling is starting to attach organised crime.

Having option 4 be changed would work especially if you can set some rules. Being able to have it set so then even you are in > 0.5 and someone you do not know tries to convo or eve mail your CSPA change was reset to the low value of a billion iskYARRRR!!. If the isk farmers still want to spam, it will make it easier for CCP to trace where they are getting the money from.

Scordaf
Failure Assured
Posted - 2007.09.23 21:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: shady trader
Originally by: Ethaet
SOLUTIONS:

1. trial accounts can't send mail
2. auto spam filter filters out repeatedly posted messages. Could also be used to filter out messages containing isk seller URLS
3. option to ignore all messages/mails/convos from trial accounts
4. ability to set CSPA above 1mil isk.


The only problem with that is you will get an increase in accounts that have been paied for being used for spamming. Either hacked accounts or those paid for using stolen credit card details, this was mentioned in the last dev blog (GM one I beleive it was). Isk (any in game currency) selling is starting to attach organised crime.


I don't like analogies, but that's like saying lets not arrest petty thieves because you'll just end up with more bank robbers. It makes no sense whatsoever.

jam6549
Via Crucis Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.23 22:00:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Eulalinda
Edited by: Eulalinda on 19/09/2007 08:55:09
^^^ I agree. Petitioning is slow and would likely require a lot of overhead for the GMs.

Originally by: Viliny
For the same reason there isn't a 100% reliable spam filter for regular e-mail either is my guess.
But that's the point! If regular email spam ALWAYS contained the URL www.xyz.com (and xyz.com was an illegal site), then spam filters COULD be 100% reliable.

Why doesn't CCP insta-kill all emails with that URL?

It's as if CCP wants to let players discuss that particular URL via Eve mail.


Your Answer

General StarScream
Araton Aerospace Corporation
Posted - 2007.09.23 23:53:00 - [21]
 

lol ye i heard the Calugia famly is making there move on eve.

Leora Nomen
Amarr
Posted - 2007.09.24 00:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
Originally by: Leora Nomen
I assume they have been blocking certain URLs. The farmers started spamming recently with .(com) and .(c0m) and .(com, and .(c0m, and somewebsite+com - all kinds of different combinations. As long as trial accounts are able to spam in any chat channel - there will be spam. They will twist the names but they'll make sure to get the website name or link through.
You know what assuming does. Smile I've recieved 5 more spam since my last post in this thread on the 20th of September. NONE of the spammers masked the URL. None of them used cute tricks for the dot com, e.g. ".c0m", "abc . com", "abc dot com", etc.

It appears that CCP doesn't care at all if ISK sellers repeatedly spam players with the same URL over and over and over. My personal spam count is over 1/day. Always one of 3 URLs.

Some of them have been trying to do change their website names. That's what I've seen so I'm not assuming :P Why would they start spamming with .(c0m) if something wasn't done? Not enough is being done in my opinion but then CCP probably sees ISK spam as a minor problem. Meanwhile it does reduce enjoyment of playing this game for many players out there.

shady trader
Posted - 2007.09.24 21:54:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Scordaf
Originally by: shady trader


The only problem with that is you will get an increase in accounts that have been paied for being used for spamming. Either hacked accounts or those paid for using stolen credit card details, this was mentioned in the last dev blog (GM one I beleive it was). Isk (any in game currency) selling is starting to attach organised crime.


I don't like analogies, but that's like saying lets not arrest petty thieves because you'll just end up with more bank robbers. It makes no sense whatsoever.


I never say that CCP should do nothing, using your analogies would be to have the policy search you on a regular basis as you maybe a thief.

The isk sellers do not care about the game other then a source of cash. If they cannot us trial accounts to sell isk they will leave or switch to paid accounts ? Do you also think they will pay for this accounts with there own money nowing that they will have a life span in minutes at best, the GM's discussed this on the dev blog, the isk farmers are already using hacked accounts and modified clients.

I have seen ISK sales adds from 1 year plus characters about a year back, during the last major account hacking outbreak. The account was confirmed as being hacked and returned to the owner.

If they started using stolen credit cards, not only will CCP got get any money but they will still have to pay the transaction fees and then the possibly additional charges. If there is to many tranactions are coming up as using stole the banks will revoke CCP's ability to handle credit cards. If CCP can put in place tools to stop the us of hacked accounts and a good way to detect stole credit card numbers then banning trails would work. Otherwise it will create a bigger problem for CCP, at the moment its only an annoyance, the above could effect there clash flow significately.

As I also said an in game solution will be to remove the cap on the CSPA charge till it it becomes non cost effective to spam eve mails.

Jevnikar
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2007.09.25 11:42:00 - [24]
 

/signed

:P just prevent n00b chars from entering hubs like Jita/Rens/amarr/"cant remember gallente one" and trade channels :), same as you prevented training of surtain ships.

define n00b: a unsubscribed account in this case. :)

Macy Capham
Posted - 2007.09.25 11:47:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Eulalinda
I just passed through Jita and was immediately spammed by the user "fromd".
Quote:
2007.09.19 06:52
Hi,
Thanks for you reading this letter! I have great news for you: Price for ISK in www.*****4Game.com has slashed down now....
(I masked the URL, but I'm sure you know who it is.)

Why doesn't CCP block all emails with this URL and other URLs spamming the sale of ISK? Why doesn't CCP do something about the annoying spam I get 1-5 times per week from this particular site?


You can always add high tax on sending you mails. Just make sure you've added all those you're getting contacted with in the Allowed-list. You can add alliances and corps.

That's what I have done, and it works perfectly.

Freakshow 2000
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:32:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: shady trader
Originally by: Scordaf
Originally by: shady trader


The only problem with that is you will get an increase in accounts that have been paied for being used for spamming. Either hacked accounts or those paid for using stolen credit card details, this was mentioned in the last dev blog (GM one I beleive it was). Isk (any in game currency) selling is starting to attach organised crime.


I don't like analogies, but that's like saying lets not arrest petty thieves because you'll just end up with more bank robbers. It makes no sense whatsoever.


The isk sellers do not care about the game other then a source of cash. If they cannot us trial accounts to sell isk they will leave or switch to paid accounts ? Do you also think they will pay for this accounts with there own money nowing that they will have a life span in minutes at best, the GM's discussed this on the dev blog, the isk farmers are already using hacked accounts and modified clients.


And this is where your logic is flawed. You admit yourself that hacked accounts are already being used for these purposes. Yet you seem to think that by letting them continue to abuse trial accounts CCP is somehow discouraging the increased use of stolen credit cards and hacked accounts. It's not.

You're looking at two whole different classes of 'crime' here. The reality is that this so called 'organised crime' you speak of will already be using stolen credit cards and hacked accounts for their purposes. Ergo why it's called organised crime.

Sweatshop ISK farmers are, for the most part, legitimate companies in the eyes of their parent countries. Suggesting that they're suddently going to go rogue and join the evil underground because trial accounts are no longer able to spam their wares is... Stupid.

Quote:
I have seen ISK sales adds from 1 year plus characters about a year back, during the last major account hacking outbreak. The account was confirmed as being hacked and returned to the owner.


Yes, and that was a year ago. Accounts will always get hacked as long as theres people stupid/naive enough to leave their systems open to attack or download whacky programs packing trojan key-loggers. This has little to no bearing on discouraging the use of trial accounts for the same purpose.

Quote:
If they started using stolen credit cards, not only will CCP got get any money but they will still have to pay the transaction fees and then the possibly additional charges. If there is to many tranactions are coming up as using stole the banks will revoke CCP's ability to handle credit cards. If CCP can put in place tools to stop the us of hacked accounts and a good way to detect stole credit card numbers then banning trails would work. Otherwise it will create a bigger problem for CCP, at the moment its only an annoyance, the above could effect there clash flow significately.


Reality check: Stolen credit cards are already being used for multitudes of nefarious purposes on the internet.
Newsflash: Accounts are already being hacked in every MMO out there.

Once again, arguing that by stopping ISK farmers from using trial accounts is going to somehow make this worse is a misnomer. It's already happening and it will continue to get worse regardless of what happens to trial accounts.

Quote:
As I also said an in game solution will be to remove the cap on the CSPA charge till it it becomes non cost effective to spam eve mails.


This is a band-aid patch on the leaking hull of an oil tanker (yay another analogy). It might give us players a bit of ease-of-mind, but it does nothing to fix the problem.

N0R0X
S.K. Astronautics
Cascade Associates
Posted - 2007.09.27 11:55:00 - [27]
 

As said before. There is no supply without demand.

The EULA says that you may not buy ISK. Ok, not everyone reads it so make a banner in the eve client (before logon) saying that you're account will terminated there and then if you are found to be buying ISK.

That way if no one buys ISK then the sellers will go away. to be honest if someone complains about their account being killed for the above reason then tough. If CCP put up said banner to show say every 10 logons (before logon) then you have plenty of warning.

They are also getting around the isk selling with selling implants and stuff.

You will still have farmers but the currency will at least stay in game.


 

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