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blankseplocked Planetary interaction: ideas for planetary colonization and siege.
 
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Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:44:00 - [1]
 

...or how to introduce tier2 dreadnaughts, make usage of the long range XL guns, introduction of the Citadel cruise and launcher, the new capital class ship Battlestation and much more!



Since CCP has plans for introducing planetary interaction, and usage of a somewhat RTS-like mechanism for planetary colonization and sieging, I thought "hay, what about them planet destroyers?".

Who would like to conquer a planet, while your fleet of planet destroyers bombard defenses from orbit?

Who would like to see dropships falling from these gigantic mobile fortresses called Battlestations?

I would, specially with the Trinity II gfxCool.


so what does compromise of my idea? simple.

Why do we want planet colonization?

Well, I thought that there should be another way to direct POS wars instead of the way it is now, by transforming the moons into simple remote mining/defence/production outposts (sorta like they are now), but with the added bonus of the production gets re-directed to the planet, and/or influenciated by the planet (big gas planet for example, has not that much space for colonization, however ample supply of gases makes it possible to run POS'es at lower costs (in the range of 90% lower) and improvement of moon mining, while volcanic planets improve production due to increased mineral abundance from the planet itself (30% bonus to production times + 15% bonus to decrease of mineral requirements of production), and a more earth-like planet can, infact support a bigger population, making it harder to conquer).

so in sum: Gas planets = mining, volcanic planets = production and "bio"-planets = defence stations.

"but won't that make POS wars like.. harder?"

no, since a POS orbiting a moon from a colonized planet will receive added bonuses yes, like extra HP and damage, but a POS orbiting a planet that hasn't be colonized yet, remains the same as it is today..
However, if you conquer the planet first, the POS'es will receive a penalty in order of the 25%/30% on their HP, their guns won't preform as well or other stuff (fuel consumption drastically increased, or reinforced time drastically decreased).


"well that seems interesting.. so how do you colonize a planet?"

Well it's a bit like putting up an outpost nowadays, with the difference that you send a colony outpost ship to the planet.
Ship makes planetfall, and starts building.
Of course that the characteristics of the planet will make it harder or easier to colonize and defend.

For example, a gas planet, while good for mining and exploration, it sucks for sustaining a medium, or even a large colony due to not having any kind of space to build a colony (colony outpost is basically "floating" in the planet's gas clouds), a volcanic planet, while having more space for heavy machinery and mines, can't make the jump to large colonies due to the harsh environment (dude, it's LAVA!), while the not so mineral/gas rich "bio"-planet can sustain large colonies due to it's bio-diversity.

"nice, so ho do you rate the defence of a colony?"

Simple, by the number of population.
A gas planet cannot sustain a big population, nor it has space for ground defenses, so it is the weakest in terms of defense, while a volcanic planet can sustain a larger ammout of defenses, but even then the average-sized population from it, will not be able to operate the defenses at full power (not enough manpower), while the "bio"-planet is the perfect defensive emplacement with it's large population, and thus, increased manpower to operate more ground defences.
So in sum, what makes a planet "good" or "bad" to defend is the amount of manpower and defenses you can slap in the planet.

(con't)

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:45:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 18/09/2007 01:14:12
"but hey what kind of defenses you can build?"

it's pretty simple actually.

the outpost colony ship itself is not race dependant.

however the defense control structure is.

the defenses are basically like this:


- Defence control structure is a racial structure that allows control to several gun systems. Caldari favours missiles, gallente hybrids, amarr lasers, minmatar projectiles (the usual stuff).

- The key structure for defense is the Gun emplacement structure that provides a shield to the gun and extended range. Basically you use a L POS sentry gun on it, and it works as a ground defence. Ex: Gun emplacement structure + L artillery sentry turret = anti-spaceship ground artillery turret.

- Military compound: think of it as a military HQ that deploys troops and stuff. The only defense vs sub-orbital attacks and dropships.
Vulnerable to planetary bombardment.

These structures (bar the military compound) are nigh invulnerable to planetary bombardment, due to the ground based shields that are much more coherent than any kind of shield. However, they are not invulnerable to, let's say, a spaceship that enters on the atmosphere for short range bombardment, or dropships with fully armed platoons. The choice is yours: conquer the structure, or destroy it.
Gun emplacement structures, also lose efficiency when you knock out the Defence control structure. Note when I say "lose efficiency". The gun will still be able to defend, but not as good as when it has the Defence control structure online. It's defences vs planetary bombardment also decrease.



"oh my. shooting my anti-spaceship planetary Railgun from the surface of a planet seems fun! What about the rest?"

and so enters the Planet Destroyer, a Tier2 dreadnaught specialized in taking out ground defenses by employing long range guns enhanced by the anti-planetary structure system (think of it as a siege module for vastly increased range and tankability)

The layout of these behemoths is pretty much equal to the tier1 dreadnaugts, altho instead of concentrating themselves arround big tanks and vastly increased firepower, these guys use their APS system to aquire and lock on all ground structures possible of being hit, destroyed, or disabled. The drawbacks of the APS is that you cannot lock on spaceships in orbit, nor able to move since they need to maintain a geosync orbit arround the planet for devastating precision.
Not being able to use the engines except the stabilization thrusters, the ship can divert it's power to vastly increase the sensors and gun's range (think locking and hitting stuff at ranges like 30 to 40mil km away) and improved tank.

Spiffy eh?

"but caldari will have the same gun as gallente? not fair!"

Actually no. I was thinking about using the Dual 1000mm rail for gallente, and introduce the Citadel cruise launcher for caldari.
Yeah, imagine the citadel torp, now remove some of the firepower for superiorly extended range and atmosphere entry capabilities, and you have a battlecruiser-sized missile. The ultimate precision missile, capable of destroying large targets at stupidly long ranges.

"COOL!"

but, there's a catch!

"what?"

You cannot conquer a planet only by shooting a gazillion rounds at structures right?
Plus, you can't effectively take down all structures only by shooting at them, or else this would be just another POS shooting sim, and we don't want it, right?

"oh. so what then? you'll be employing regular non-capital ships at sub-orbital altitude?"

damn yes! so wait a bit and read below.

(cont'd)

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:46:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 18/09/2007 01:33:57
"so, destroying structures by using good ol' battleships?"

yeah and even interceptors if you want to.

imagine dogfights of inties at low altitudes, while your mates in a blasterthron apply short-range blaster death to that otherwise shielded vs orbital attacks structure. Or that battlecruiser getting pwned by ground forces that the planetary bombardment failed to eliminate.

Basically a game within the game.

"wait, you said that you weren't able to conquer the planet just by shooting right?"

yes! thus enter the Battlestation! a tier2 carrier that does not field fighters, but a special ship full of marines that drops on the planet.

"****in' dropships yeah!!"

Undeployed it is nothing more than an oversized freighter with little to no defense (and, compared to the freighters, small cargo space).
Deployed it provides logistical support and shoots dropships down to the planet, altho it still has not much of defence, rather relying on it's dronebays and the biggest tanks of EVE to do the job.
It also proides logistical support for the dreadnaughts by using extended-range remote reppers, and a "small" device called "supply conveyor", capable of delivering, and recieving ammo, drones, and fresh marines and drop pods remotely.

spiffy I say!


"this seems complicated to me! can you simplify?"

Sure. it goes like this:

the Colonization path is somewhat like this:

deploy colony outpost -> start building extraction, production and defensive structures -> consolidate colony by constantly increasing population.


the Conquest path is somewhat like this:

Deploy planet destroyers in tandem with battlestations and squads of ships for sub-orbital attacks -> destroy military compounds to allow unhindred air superiority on the planet's atmosphere -> destroy or conquer with the help of the battlestations the defensive structures -> use marines and the like to take over the planet.



so yeah it's somewhat of a big plan, that can go very wrong.


...however I can see small skirmishes happening all over the planet, and while you are popping yet another interceptor from the defendants, you watch yet another Citadel cruise missle impact in the horizon, yet taking out another military fort.



"is there more?"

yes, infact I forgot how to power all these defensive structures.
Pretty simple actually.

Structures depend of several resources present on the planet, and depending of the planet type and proximity from the sun, you can use either volatile gases, thermal energy provided by the volcanoes from that nasty and fantastic lava landscape, or solar energy, or other forms of "green" energy ("bio"-planets are the most diverse in this case, capable of using either solar, wind, wave, or dam generators to provide energy) wich are converted by the diverse powerplants into energy.
The common resource for it all is manpower (think of it as CPU), wich is dependent of the breeding rate of your lil' colonistsRazz.






so yeah, here you have these big walls of text.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:46:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 18/09/2007 01:34:14
(reserved for future updates)

James Swindle
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.18 04:46:00 - [5]
 

I diden't read the entire thing, but when planetary RTS comes around....how will multiple people be able to control one base on the planets surface...surly it would be a pain in the arse having multiple people controlling it all.....the whole "too many cooks" problem???

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.18 07:06:00 - [6]
 

have been some discussions that system soviengty would claim ownership u would need to disable orbital defenses before being able to land combat troops

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.09.18 07:12:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Callthetruth
have been some discussions that system soviengty would claim ownership u would need to disable orbital defenses before being able to land combat troops



yeah, but such mechanism seems a bit too plain.


they way I propose pretty much influences the time you lay a siege on a system.

Dalorian Detri
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 08:47:00 - [8]
 

I really like the idea of expanding Eve to incorporate ground combat of some type. Maybe they already have a plan, but these ideas don't hurt.
****

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2007.10.15 09:21:00 - [9]
 

I like this. But I think that the POSs should provide some integration to the defence of the planet - for example, they send power or some such to the defences. That way, you can have concurrent attacks carried out on the POSs to make the planet easier to conquer, which breaks up the blob.

There is a thread here about Juggernauts, Dreadnoughts specifically designed to attack ships (almost) blindly at great distances, perhaps this could be a second use of them.

I do approve of this idea though.

Stork DK
Minmatar
Risky eXplosion
Death or Glory
Posted - 2007.10.23 11:23:00 - [10]
 

I hope that when we get Tech 3 technology we will need Planet resources to build them. and only way to get sovereign for a planet would be in 0.0 space.

pah246
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:27:00 - [11]
 

Yeah, that would be an interesting idea. I also like the idea of having specialized ships attack planets. Another idea I saw being tossed around somewhere was of having a specialized class of ships that would be the only ones able to go to planets, a kind of drop-ship if you will.

Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.10.29 12:32:00 - [12]
 

This almost sounds like my juggernaught idea and the idea I was tossing back and forth with the community about the planetary invasions and we ran intoa ****load of problems.

We where going for the idea of making planetary seiges VERY HARD even with superior numbers, where the cost and effort of starving the planet out is a more viable and cheaper option which may take a while.

Basically to bombard the planet you go into range then enter seige mode, but the planetary defenses fire AOE weapons that will kill a dreadnaught by the time it gets out of its reinforce but the guns can only lock 1 seiged dread at a time. Then they asked well that means bring more dreads than they have guns, well I did state the weapons are AOE, you bring more dreads the quicker they all die, ie bring 2 dreads and they are close together the dreads will get popped in 5 minutes instead of 10. bring 4 dreads and they will get popped in 2 minutes, bring 8 dreads 1 minute, bring 16, 30 seconds, and any nearby support fleet is bound to get burned along with them.

Enter the Teir 2 dread the Juggernaught, Can survive the onslaught of the guns and you can use up to 2-3 of them before the guns overwhelm thier seige mode tanks, juggers are however inneffective against other capitols even out of seige mode. Juggers main role is to bombard planterary surfaces or provide support to the RTS commanders on the ground that are trying to capture the cities on the ground or taking out the guns. anyways look up planet fall idea in search with my name on it.

sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.29 15:08:00 - [13]
 

nice ideas, keep em comming

/signed

DorXtar
Blow Up Really Lame Adversaries
Posted - 2007.10.29 16:37:00 - [14]
 

This idea would require a separate server altogether. If you think lag is bad now...

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:40:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: DorXtar
This idea would require a separate server altogether. If you think lag is bad now...


They are mentioning CCP is moving up into supercomputer status in the very near future (rumormil points to right after Trinity/before Ambulation), so I doubt server power would be too much of a problem.

Besides, this is an idea well into 2008/9, so...ugh

Drakan290
Posted - 2007.12.19 23:50:00 - [16]
 

Seems like a good idea to me, but I think they also need to take a page out of the up-and-coming Infinity game (http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/)
The ability to actually explore planets. Not a full FPS type game, but the ability to fly low and mine from say, the planets crust. Learn about the geology of the planet, and even increase skill training times by finding remnants of old civilizations or outposts that can improve current abilities to learn... Would be cool, but somewhat radical.
Anyway, this is signed by me.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2007.12.19 23:59:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: DorXtar
This idea would require a separate server altogether. If you think lag is bad now...


That is sort of true, but it can be "instanced" just like Eve now is a bunch of instances. Each star system is an instance, you jump, your player data (ship, cargo, etc) is saved to the back end, you're then instantiated into another solar system in some other process that queries the back end.

Planets could be done in a similar way. You dock at a station and "beam" to the planet, or land on the planet, or once you're in the atmosphere you're really moved into a different process, another node. Do it with slick graphics, like for instance, lots of fire smoke and ionization static stuff, and players will be none the wiser. The only reason we're aware of session changes now is because they are handled with such stark mechanics, jump gates, black screens when undocking, local chat jumping around like a Jack Russell terrier.

Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
Subordination
Posted - 2007.12.28 15:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: James Swindle
I diden't read the entire thing, but when planetary RTS comes around....how will multiple people be able to control one base on the planets surface...surly it would be a pain in the arse having multiple people controlling it all.....the whole "too many cooks" problem???

Management could be divided into different roles which control different units. Perhaps something similar to World in Conflict.


 

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