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blankseplocked So, planet X and the world as we know it ending in 2012, fake or real?
 
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Invader Skooge
Minmatar
Free Space Initiative
Republic Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.14 09:19:00 - [61]
 

But if everyone dies...who will start TQ back up after Downtime!?

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2007.09.14 09:22:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/09/2007 09:31:06

Originally by: Invader Skooge
But if everyone dies...who will start TQ back up after Downtime!?


Yeah, and what about our skill training? We will lose training time!!111

Originally by: Micheal Dietrich

Just out of curiosity do they have any night shots of it?


Google is your friend. Smile

But yeah, it could be nothing.

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2007.09.14 09:32:00 - [63]
 

Okay I can accept that a brown dwarf might not give off much of it's own light. However, it should still reflect the sun's light, in which case we would have seen it by now.

Oh and those photos with the two suns? That's just a refraction effect due to varying temperatures and pressures in the earth's upper atmosphere. It's more common than you might think, but only occurs when the sun is near the horizon.

Malontra
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:06:00 - [64]
 

OMFG I just realized something!

This is the plot for 'The 5th Element' :D

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:08:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Okay I can accept that a brown dwarf might not give off much of it's own light. However, it should still reflect the sun's light, in which case we would have seen it by now.



*sigh* No one reads anymore.

I answered this and other misinfomration about Planet X here in this thread.

If you do not want to bother the short of it is Brown Dwarfs do not give off much light at all but if it was in out solar system it'd be the third brightest thing in the sky after the sun and the moon.

If it is "merely" a planet it would have to be about as close as Jupiter and again would be quite bright and visible not to mention messing with the other planet's orbits.

None of which anyone has seen (if it were there you'd be able to see it unaided by a telescope).

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:22:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Okay I can accept that a brown dwarf might not give off much of it's own light. However, it should still reflect the sun's light, in which case we would have seen it by now.



*sigh* No one reads anymore.

I answered this and other misinfomration about Planet X here in this thread.

If you do not want to bother the short of it is Brown Dwarfs do not give off much light at all but if it was in out solar system it'd be the third brightest thing in the sky after the sun and the moon.

If it is "merely" a planet it would have to be about as close as Jupiter and again would be quite bright and visible not to mention messing with the other planet's orbits.

None of which anyone has seen (if it were there you'd be able to see it unaided by a telescope).


Sorry, must have missed your post (I tend to skim over the long ones). But I'm actually agreeing with you, so no need to say "no one reads any more". Razz

Big Al
The Aftermath
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:46:00 - [67]
 

You dare question the prophet Nancy?

I forget the name of the website off hand, but someone used to always spam it in the astronomy channel on efnet.

Rudy Metallo
Veto.
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:54:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 14/09/2007 10:54:20
We're due for a major polar shift in 2012, or at least soon.

Funny thing, it has nothing to do with human influence - it's just a naturally occuring thing.

However, it will wipe out most out most of civilization with near constant typhoons/hurricanes etc., rising sea levels, and followed by another ice age.

But it's survivable.

Ealiom
EAT THE POOR
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:14:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Rudy Metallo
Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 14/09/2007 10:54:20
We're due for a major polar shift in 2012, or at least soon.

Funny thing, it has nothing to do with human influence - it's just a naturally occuring thing.

However, it will wipe out most out most of civilization with near constant typhoons/hurricanes etc., rising sea levels, and followed by another ice age.

But it's survivable.


I think your thinking about the magnetic field flipping. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon which cycles once every 150,000 years if memory serves.
We are long overdue for one of these flips. It would reak unholy havoc with all eletrical equipment but i have not read anything that would suggest that it would cause large scale natural disasters!

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:20:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Rudy Metallo
Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 14/09/2007 10:54:20
We're due for a major polar shift in 2012, or at least soon.

Funny thing, it has nothing to do with human influence - it's just a naturally occuring thing.

However, it will wipe out most out most of civilization with near constant typhoons/hurricanes etc., rising sea levels, and followed by another ice age.

But it's survivable.


I think your thinking about the magnetic field flipping. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon which cycles once every 150,000 years if memory serves.
We are long overdue for one of these flips. It would reak unholy havoc with all eletrical equipment but i have not read anything that would suggest that it would cause large scale natural disasters!


Well, first off, it would severely weaken our protection from solar radiation, at least for a period of time. That's gonna royally FUBAR our weather patterns. Second, our weather patterns are affected by Terra's magnetic field. If it suddenly flips, those patterns will come to the meteorological equivalent of a screeching halt and do an about-face. That's gonna be natural disasters on a scale you've never even contemplated.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:43:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: The List of things we should stockpile for this calamity
#40. BIG DOGS (and plenty of dog food)


the world is ending, quick someone give me some BIG DOGS

from here

tbh it looks like an interesting read, and i'll read it all in time, but for the moment it looks like the ramblings of some nutcases with to much time on their hands

Caid Lemant
Cunning Hats
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:52:00 - [72]
 

Saying we're due for a reversal is kinda going a little far. There have been stretches of 1 to 10 million years without reversals, average means nothing because there is no pattern. And to declare that it'll have an adverse effect on our future is also saying too much for reversals have never been connected to extinctions or other truly major events.

Speculation about 2012 being an important date for anything is complete rubbish. Natural occurrences don't follow a human made calendar from over 2000 years ago, they'll never occur to a human made calender unless they're human events. The so called 'prophets' are wrong 99.99999999999% of the time and you could extrapolate anything if enough numbers, letters, are involved with hundreds upon thousands of translations and perversions and idiocy for thousands of years. The only date that is significant right now is around 2032 when we have observed (with actual science) a high likely hood of an asteroid colliding with earth.


Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:04:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Caid Lemant
The only date that is significant right now is around 2032 when we have observed (with actual science) a high likely hood of an asteroid colliding with earth.



2032, i'll be 50 by then so i wont care BOOYAA! \m/(-_o)\m/

xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:41:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Tauscha Vald'or
Originally by: xOm3gAx
example if our planet suddenly stopped rotating we would lose all atmosphere and gravity thus killing everyone.


Which side are you on?

You are confusing centrifugal force with gravity. The spinning of the earth does not keep us on it. The gravitational pull of the earth keeps us on it. Now if we were living on the inside of a cosmic bucket and the cosmic 10 year old was swinging us in cosmic circles, the force keeping us on the inside of the cosmic bucket would be centrifugal force....not gravity.

If the earth became tidally locked, like the moon, one side would get very warm, and the other would get very cold. Any survivors, if any, might find a somewhat livable zone somewhere on the day-night terminator. Global weather would get very interesting.

No doubt we would all just kill each other instead.

Remember kids, gravity is the force that two bodies in proximity exert on each other to attract each other. What is it? Inverse square rule? Hmm, need to brush up again.

And for years the media has been incorrectly describing what the astronauts (and cosmonauts, to my Russian friends) experience as "weightlessness" while that is the apparent state, it is actually better termed as "free fall". Where the pull of gravity is offset by the constantly falling state of an orbiter.

To get true "weightlessness", you could try a LaGrange Point. where the gravitational pull of the moon and the earth balance each other out.

Oh well, on to bigger fish.

And yes, we are protected by the Earth's magnetic field....specifically a torus of charged particles called the Van Allen Belts, which is held in place by the magnetic field of the Earth.


No im not confused, merely not all that good at explaining things. The spinning of the earth causes the molten rock inside the earth to spin around an iron core. Thus causing a magnetic field, hence gravity and a protective shield around our planet. Without the spinning motion the molten conveyor if you will would cease to work thus stopping over time and killing the planet. Though it is true that all things have gravity if you will it is the spinning motion of the planet and the magnetic field caused by this that enhance it.

Alias11
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.14 13:00:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Ealiom
Im not even going to attempt to explain any of this because it will just be met with. Planet X is infused with Tachyons therefore invisible and awesome! Laughing


That's certainly why Dr. Manhattan hasn't been able to deal with it

Death Kill
Caldari
SolaR KillerS
UN1CUM
Posted - 2007.09.14 13:11:00 - [76]
 

The thought of things being destined is absurd. Destiny rules out free will.

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.09.14 13:44:00 - [77]
 

oh my god! We're all gonna die. Hey better kill yourself before that thing does right?
Yah go do it now to make sure its painless.



...There... cleaned up all the nutcases that believe this crap. Don't believe what an internetmovie tells you: look stuff up yourself and actually know a thing or 2 about science.

Now... how to rid the world of all religions so we can finally live without millions of nutcases that believe a story that was made up 2000 years ago. Heck we might finally end some wars without religion.

Twoguns
Infecti0n
Posted - 2007.09.14 13:54:00 - [78]
 

Maybe somebody should try and bump the asteroid?

Krasnij Okjabre
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2007.09.14 14:04:00 - [79]
 

I kind like this site. Some pretty candid and humourous angles on whats being discussed here.


Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.09.14 16:35:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: xOm3gAx
No im not confused, merely not all that good at explaining things. The spinning of the earth causes the molten rock inside the earth to spin around an iron core. Thus causing a magnetic field, hence gravity and a protective shield around our planet. Without the spinning motion the molten conveyor if you will would cease to work thus stopping over time and killing the planet. Though it is true that all things have gravity if you will it is the spinning motion of the planet and the magnetic field caused by this that enhance it.


I wouldn't worry much about frying from no more magnetic field. Anything that could stop the earth's rotation will probably kill us all anyway by its mere presence.

But again you are missing that tidal locking does NOT stop rotation. Just means one face always points at the object in question. Not to mention we are talking about a HUGE amount of angular momentum to get rid of. If the earth is to stop spinning it will occur on an astronomic timescale.


Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.09.14 16:53:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 14/09/2007 17:03:23
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/09/2007 22:33:17
Originally by: Malontra

How do you know thats not something much more likely... such as an inner planet.



I know nothing about astronomy, so I just go after what people tell me on the net. There are many sites out there about this though. Google around and see what you find.

The pictures are from this site.


/facepalm

I admire your willingness to say "screw convention" and think outside the box, but at least think things through for yourself rather than relying on others to tell you what is possible and not. A highly inclined and elliptical orbit of a planet that is 8 Earth masses heavy passing through the inner solar system for eight billion years would have likely perturbed the orbits of one of the inner planets on one of its passes. I just don't buy it.

Also, one other thing to think about. If it was claimed to be coming from the Sun's position at twilight, then it can only be visible for a few months around October as any other time it was "observed" at would be incorrect, as it would be on the other side of the planet with the change in orientation due to our orbit around the Sun.

Originally by: That Wesbite
The current extreme record setting solar flare activity that the disinfo artists state is normal; is NOT normal and means many planet sized objects are being sucked into the sun. Where are they coming from?? Part of the debris dragged along with X.

/facepalm

Le sigh.

I think its a bunch of doomsdayers trying to combine Revelations scripture with pseudoscience.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.09.14 17:13:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
A highly inclined and elliptical orbit of a planet that is 8 Earth masses heavy passing through the inner solar system for eight billion years would have likely perturbed the orbits of one of the inner planets on one of its passes. I just don't buy it.



Yep...and actually I was reading (forget where now) such a highly elliptical orbit is unstable. Planet X would LONG ago either had its orbit changed into a more conventional orbit and joined our solar system (as all the other planets have) or would have head off into deep space.

Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2007.09.14 17:18:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Twoguns
Maybe somebody should try and bump the asteroid?


Sorry; that's against the EULA and forum rules. Sad



Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.09.14 17:24:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
A highly inclined and elliptical orbit of a planet that is 8 Earth masses heavy passing through the inner solar system for eight billion years would have likely perturbed the orbits of one of the inner planets on one of its passes. I just don't buy it.



Yep...and actually I was reading (forget where now) such a highly elliptical orbit is unstable. Planet X would LONG ago either had its orbit changed into a more conventional orbit and joined our solar system (as all the other planets have) or would have head off into deep space.


Mmm, from where I'm sitting, they're not inherently unstable in a two-body system (i.e., sun + elliptical planet), but that instability comes in when it starts crossing orbits and doing near-planet flybys within another body's sphere of influence as each body acts on each other to perturb the other's orbit.

Let me do a quick simulation...

Caid Lemant
Cunning Hats
Posted - 2007.09.14 17:26:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
I think its a bunch of doomsdayers trying to combine Revelations scripture with pseudoscience.


Calling it pseudoscience is giving them far too much credibility. ugh

Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.09.14 17:51:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Caid Lemant
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
I think its a bunch of doomsdayers trying to combine Revelations scripture with pseudoscience.


Calling it pseudoscience is giving them far too much credibility. ugh


Heh. Cool

Right, so I did a quick simulation using Interactive Physics, a simple physical simulator that you can download the demo for free.

Long story short, I setup a 2D encounter between a pretty circular orbit of a planet that is earthlike, and then I setup an elliptical orbit of a far-off planet that was 8x the mass of the circular orbit planet. (Figure 1) The eccentric planet (the small one) crossed the path of the normal one (the big one), and within about three or four orbits, this happened (Figure 2)... Energy transfer occurred between the two, changing their orbits, and it happened again here... (Figure 3).

The simulation area is small compared to the sizes of the two planets, which would make their interaction on each orbit a lot more likely, but the concept is the same even if it was stretched out further. Eventually, things are just going to line up right and bam, perturbation of the inner planet's orbit, as well as the out one's.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.14 18:36:00 - [87]
 

get me a barge and that roid wont even make it here.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.09.14 19:03:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
The simulation area is small compared to the sizes of the two planets, which would make their interaction on each orbit a lot more likely, but the concept is the same even if it was stretched out further. Eventually, things are just going to line up right and bam, perturbation of the inner planet's orbit, as well as the out one's.


If I am reading you right you are saying the orbits are unstable over time.

TBH I think the highly eccentric orbit would be far more unstable. As it travels very far away from the sun (at its aphelion) I would think the solar system's grip on the object to be tenuous at best. So even small changes occurring on its pass through the inner system would be magnified at its outer limit and either kick it from the neighborhood entirely or cause it to not go quite so far and be dragged into the system and gain a more standard orbit (I have been trying to make sense of the Kozai Mechanism which limits what orbits are allowable in a system and deals with highly eccentric orbit but again beyond me).

Admittedly I am getting way past my technical abilities on this one now. I downloaded a gravity simulator (a bunch for free out there) but I do not have appropriate data on Planet X to drop it in the system (my attempts so far it just flies off).

Mudkest
Adventurers
Matari Visionary Coalition
Posted - 2007.09.14 19:06:00 - [89]
 

wouldnt be surprised if it is a money making scheme.
"enviromentalism" certainly is. money making scheme for the goverments in teh form of taxes. Take those new sooth-filthers or whatever theye are called for cars. should be mandatory according to a lot of politicians(nice to rake in votes)
but truth is, creating those damned things are more taxig on the enviroment and climate then not using them at all.

The glowbulb ban to use those energy-saving light thingies. nice idear, but those energy-saving lights are only more efficient then glow bulbs after theye were on for a peariod(heating up period). before theye are heated up theye consume more energy and break down faster then glow bulbs. So for toilet lights for example that are only on a few minutes now and then glowbulbs are far more enviroment frienfly.
and another thing I am still wondering about, manufactering of those energy saving lights compared to lightbulbs, how much more energy does it take and will those lamps actualy safe that energy?

solar panels are NOT enviroment friendly, as theye require more energy to manufacter then theye ever produce. For ecample, you power a factory with a coal plant to make solar panels. YOu then use those solar panels to power another factory that makes more solar panels. Except that 2nd factory will NOT be able to produce the same amount of solar panels as the ammount the coal powered plant made.(dont get me wrong, sola panels are great and definetly have their uses and advantages. But enviroment/climate friendliness is not among those properties)

wind turbines are a bit better. theye tend to live 15 years, and if you were to power a factory with 1 wind turbine it takes that wind turbine 7 years to produce enough power for the factory to make another wind turbine.

so will this "ZOMG TEH SKY IS FALLING AND TEH WORLD IS DOOMED!" thingie be a money maker device? I wouldnt be surrised.

anyway, on the topic of climate change and the world heating up. there's another nice theory I heared. There;s an ice-age every so many thousand years(apearantly, evidence found burried points to this) and right now were not even half way between the last ice-age and the next, so its only natural that the world is heating up.
are we poisoning the planet? definetly, are we having an effect on the climate, I'm sure we do. Did we create global warming, I dont think so, though we probably are amplifying its effect.

are the increase in natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes a result of us messing up the climate? who knows, we're only keeping track of those things for about a hundred year so who can say its not a natural cycle(those things tend to take thousands of years) wich is currently on the increase?

Tentacle Girl
Posted - 2007.09.14 19:08:00 - [90]
 

I think i've figured it out! In 2012 we are all going to be kami-hami-had by PLANET DRAGONBALL X Z!


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