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blankseplocked PETITION: Reduce fighter spam lag!
 
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Gericault m0id
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
Posted - 2007.09.08 08:56:00 - [151]
 

Signed. This is exactly the reason why we can't control 10 drones with regular ships since Exodus.

NeoTech
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.08 09:03:00 - [152]
 

signed for sure!

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.09.08 09:16:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Valea
"Since the number of interactions with the server is a value of n^3, lag increases exponentially with each new drone launched."

How did you determine drone lag increases exponentially for every drone deployed? I am hardly the best coder in the world, but my limited experience would tell me that server calculations would just stack non exponentially for every drone fielded.


Its because drones are collidable objects, so while each new drone only has to update each pilot, each new drone has to figure collision and angular velocity with every ship on the grid[afaik, you get the info whether or not its on your overview or not].

But i dont know where he got the ^3, it should be ^2 afaik.

Adm Tecumseh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.08 09:51:00 - [154]
 

First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.


Scavok
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 10:09:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




Nobody wants fighters or carriers nerfed. We want the game to support them in high numbers, which it currently doesn't.

NeoTech
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.08 10:13:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




You obviously didn't read the thread stupid.

Randorial
Posted - 2007.09.08 10:18:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Scavok
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




Nobody wants fighters or carriers nerfed. We want the game to support them in high numbers, which it currently doesn't.


So you're petitioning to reduce lag? something ccp has been doing since 2003? Good one. Smart to. Makes total sense. We should have an anti-lag petition every week, cus that will solve it!

James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.08 10:24:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Randorial
Originally by: Scavok
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




Nobody wants fighters or carriers nerfed. We want the game to support them in high numbers, which it currently doesn't.


So you're petitioning to reduce lag? something ccp has been doing since 2003? Good one. Smart to. Makes total sense. We should have an anti-lag petition every week, cus that will solve it!

Or you know, maybe they're petitioning for CCP to look at a particular solution to a problem which wasn't considered in the game since it's only recently that the number of capitals has become such that it could generate the issues it does?

Or maybe you just had nothing worthwhile to post yet needed one more hit of push butan.

Randorial
Posted - 2007.09.08 10:43:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Randorial
Originally by: Scavok
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




Nobody wants fighters or carriers nerfed. We want the game to support them in high numbers, which it currently doesn't.


So you're petitioning to reduce lag? something ccp has been doing since 2003? Good one. Smart to. Makes total sense. We should have an anti-lag petition every week, cus that will solve it!

Or you know, maybe they're petitioning for CCP to look at a particular solution to a problem which wasn't considered in the game since it's only recently that the number of capitals has become such that it could generate the issues it does?

Or maybe you just had nothing worthwhile to post yet needed one more hit of push butan.


since goons and ra have invented the superblob (with normal and capital ships) a long time ago, i somehow find it hard to believe this is not linked to the fact that they are having problems taking a system down south.

Danzir Kasnov
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:03:00 - [160]
 

/signed

Disabling auto aggression on fighters/drones during laggy fights would probably make the use of them in these situations fairer but it wouldn't fix the fundamental problem here. I would like to hear the reason drones and fighters are treated the same way as a ships in the game in terms of server side calculations of their exact position in space as well as being collidable. Surely spatial accuracy is no where near as important with drones as it is with a player ship? Would looking into these fundamentals not be the best way to tackle this problem as opposed changing game play mechanics?

Strana Mechty
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:06:00 - [161]
 

Signed.


Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:08:00 - [162]
 

Signing dis.

NeoTech
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:10:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Randorial
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: Randorial
Originally by: Scavok
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
First you guys cry so hard about the titans being able to kill you that they get nerfed, now you want fighters nerfed as well, whats next?

Nerf Battleships cause it takes a lot of skills points to run one effectively and gtc for real money for isk for advanced characters has dried up?

What about you cry till everyone is back in a noob ship. Thats one way to level the playing field.
A 4 year player with 60 mill sp in a noob ship just so teh goonies will stfu about how unfair the game is too noobs.

Thread sucks I give it a one for stupidity.




Nobody wants fighters or carriers nerfed. We want the game to support them in high numbers, which it currently doesn't.


So you're petitioning to reduce lag? something ccp has been doing since 2003? Good one. Smart to. Makes total sense. We should have an anti-lag petition every week, cus that will solve it!

Or you know, maybe they're petitioning for CCP to look at a particular solution to a problem which wasn't considered in the game since it's only recently that the number of capitals has become such that it could generate the issues it does?

Or maybe you just had nothing worthwhile to post yet needed one more hit of push butan.


since goons and ra have invented the superblob (with normal and capital ships) a long time ago, i somehow find it hard to believe this is not linked to the fact that they are having problems taking a system down south.


BoB can blob all they want, thats not the issue.
The issue is that fighters are not effected by lag, whereas players are. Thats the difference, a blob creates equal lag on both sides, while fighterblobs only create lag on the other. (or rather, it does not matter if the characters that control the carriers lag, because their fighters will not be lagged)

Do you see the problem? (why do i even bother)

fire 59
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:12:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: fire 59 on 08/09/2007 11:26:15
I think that anything which is good for the game is good in general. But, when you guys blob to monstrous levels and make the system grind to a halt/have your own fighter swarms but doesn't seem to be a problem then etc. Events like the jv1v situation where it was blobbed to such degrees that the system melted, where was your anti lag petitions then?

Trying to stay away from caod style flaming but it does seem that it isn't a problem until you have to put effort in and feel lag affect you like your blobs effect others. And also your lot (ra and co) pretty much invented the capital blob/gank which means you have to immediately have a sizeable cap fleet yourself to use caps otherwise you will just blob and gank.

Capital fights would certainly be more workable but i don't think it's the fighters that are the problem, moreso the 600 people you try to stuff into the system afterwards. The fight we had in 9-9 awhile back which was an attempted cap gank worked fairly well, 400 ish local and fightable.


Prall Grosserbauch
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:13:00 - [165]
 

signed

thoth foc
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:37:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: NeoTech


BoB can blob all they want, thats not the issue.
The issue is that fighters are not effected by lag, whereas players are. Thats the difference, a blob creates equal lag on both sides, while fighterblobs only create lag on the other. (or rather, it does not matter if the characters that control the carriers lag, because their fighters will not be lagged)

Do you see the problem? (why do i even bother)


The problem is the need for the blob, not the fighters you seem to think benefit from it, you should address the problem not the result..

kkx
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:39:00 - [167]
 

/signed

Heng
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.08 11:58:00 - [168]
 

/signed

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:05:00 - [169]
 

this just in, goons and sniggs were told to by their ceo's to sign this thread using all their accounts/alts/friends accounts/etc.

what am i doing here? well, what else? providing a friendly bump!

*bump*

ccp nerf fighters because they are OVERPOWERED!!!!!!! your hardware cant cope with our 800 strong frig blobs!!

jeffb
GoonFleet
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:08:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: jeffb on 08/09/2007 12:09:01
Edited by: jeffb on 08/09/2007 12:08:44
Originally by: Shoukei
this just in, goons and sniggs were told to by their ceo's to sign this thread using all their accounts/alts/friends accounts/etc.

what am i doing here? well, what else? providing a friendly bump!

*bump*

ccp nerf fighters because they are OVERPOWERED!!!!!!! your hardware cant cope with our 800 strong frig blobs!!


this just in, bob and pets were told by their ceo's to troll this thread using all their accounts/alts/friends accounts/etc.

see what i did there?

El Mauru
Amarr
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:11:00 - [171]
 

agreed :-P

less fighters, more damage, more hit-points-

only issue i can see with this is that it will be way more difficult to take out fighters in hit & run maneuvers-

Maybe fix this by giving fighters a small delay before their shields recharge when you recall them.

either way,
/signed

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:12:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: jeffb
see what i did there?


i see what you did here. you created 6 pages of goon posts in very short time, IN an obscure forum, ALL consisting of mostly "/sign".

you still want to deny the obvious?

WrathOfOprah
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:17:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: jeffb
Edited by: jeffb on 08/09/2007 12:09:01
Edited by: jeffb on 08/09/2007 12:08:44
Originally by: Shoukei
this just in, goons and sniggs were told to by their ceo's to sign this thread using all their accounts/alts/friends accounts/etc.

what am i doing here? well, what else? providing a friendly bump!

*bump*

ccp nerf fighters because they are OVERPOWERED!!!!!!! your hardware cant cope with our 800 strong frig blobs!!


this just in, bob and pets were told by their ceo's to troll this thread using all their accounts/alts/friends accounts/etc.

see what i did there?


They do it automatically. They've become allergic to our mere existence.

Rodent
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:25:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: Rodent on 08/09/2007 12:27:49
Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 08/09/2007 11:26:15
The fight we had in 9-9 awhile back which was an attempted cap gank worked fairly well, 400 ish local and fightable.


Are you joking? I ran two dreads in that fight, both survived until the battle was esencially over. One got on two mails, the other on one. Out of two hours fighting and 15+ hostile caps down. On one I did the mistake of putting stront in a can, which then took 40 minutes to get into my cargohold. The other one just couldnt target + enable guns on ANYONE after the first primary was down. One dread managed to jump out when it was over, the other one was tackled and died 20 minutes after I told it to jump.

So no, 9-9 did NOT work fairly well AT ALL.


Edit: Noone here is asking for a Carrier/Fighter nerf, we are just asking for a redesign. Carriers would do the same damage but there would be a lot less calculations for the server to handle, thus a lot less lag.

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:29:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Rodent
Are you joking? I ran two dreads in that fight, both survived until the battle was esencially over. One got on two mails, the other on one. Out of two hours fighting and 15+ hostile caps down. On one I did the mistake of putting stront in a can, which then took 40 minutes to get into my cargohold. The other one just couldnt target + enable guns on ANYONE after the first primary was down. One dread managed to jump out when it was over, the other one was tackled and died 20 minutes after I told it to jump.

So no, 9-9 did NOT work fairly well AT ALL.


bring 400 less useless frigs into the fight. you will have less lag. in the meantime, stop crying when you put every effort into grinding servers to a complete halt.

Yonker
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 12:56:00 - [176]
 

signing dis

Kaldaine
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.08 13:18:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 08/09/2007 11:26:15
I think that anything which is good for the game is good in general. But, when you guys blob to monstrous levels and make the system grind to a halt/have your own fighter swarms but doesn't seem to be a problem then etc. Events like the jv1v situation where it was blobbed to such degrees that the system melted, where was your anti lag petitions then?

Trying to stay away from caod style flaming but it does seem that it isn't a problem until you have to put effort in and feel lag affect you like your blobs effect others. And also your lot (ra and co) pretty much invented the capital blob/gank which means you have to immediately have a sizeable cap fleet yourself to use caps otherwise you will just blob and gank.

Capital fights would certainly be more workable but i don't think it's the fighters that are the problem, moreso the 600 people you try to stuff into the system afterwards. The fight we had in 9-9 awhile back which was an attempted cap gank worked fairly well, 400 ish local and fightable.




I dont know any way to manage the number of people in a system for a fight except by telling them they cant play the game. Now if there was a way to reduce the number of objects on grid like say fighters maybe it would be a good idea to do that. I dont know why people keep saying we want to nerf fighters or carriers since everyone who actually has something to say on the subject doesnt care if they buff carriers or fighters as long as they reduce the # on grid.

Much as people want to claim we invented the blob you give us too much credit. I had a chance to fly with 5, LV, V and others and watched them brag about the amount of numbers they could bring to the fight to blob systems and their enemies. You can try and start a petition for CCP to take out frigs, noob ships and destroyers but people will still come to fights in the 100's with cruisers, BCs and BS. Not really sure what you expect us to do about it.

I cant see how people think we actually enjoy lag in any way. Its as much fun for us as it is for anyone else and anyone who can read our forums can see we ***** as much as anyone else.

Nobody uses fighters swarms or numbers because they are fun. They use them because it makes sense and choices are limited. I cant exactly blame anyone for blobbing up a 4 or 7 moon system. There is a large number of goons who dont participate in large fleet operations simply because they are no fun and their systems cant handle 50 person fights. Maybe BoB or some of you bitter alts have some brilliant ideas on how to defend a system with minmum numbers and maximum participation so everyone gets to play but I dont.

HatfulOfHollow
Synetix Engineering
Posted - 2007.09.08 13:20:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Shoukei
bring 400 less useless frigs into the fight.

This guy has a point. We should stop flying all frig fleets.

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2007.09.08 13:26:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: HatfulOfHollow
This guy has a point. We should stop flying all frig fleets.


look at the killboard statistics. even if they are slightly off, they still show rather accurately what are the most flown ships.

its hard to believe most of those are not just noob frig alts you bring into engagements.


Zombie Network
Perkone
Posted - 2007.09.08 13:41:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Shoukei
this just in, goons and sniggs were told to by their ceo's to sign this thread


Because it is a serious issue with the game, and one that needs to be addressed.

The only way to make the developers aware there is a problem is to point it out to them, which is eaxactly what we are doing, in a civil and organised fasion. There are a lot of us who are very unhappy with the way the game handles drones/fighters with regards to lag. We are all paying customers, have an equal right to voice our opinion, and have this thread to do so.

Quote:
bring 400 less useless frigs into the fight. you will have less lag. in the meantime, stop crying when you put every effort into grinding servers to a complete halt.


When it comes to the choice between having a person in a ship or an unmanned drone in a fight I would pick the human player every time. When it comes to reducing lag, I would rather see CCP remove the NPC combatants before removing players. However, if you feel strongly on the topic, please feel free to create a new thread discussing how and why CCP should disallow certain pilots from joining a fight to reduce lag and stop trolling this one since your arguments have no bearing on the amount of lag caused by fighters.

CCP are not going to change anything just because we whine, they will investigate the problem independantly and decide for themselves if we are right and if the fighter situation needs to be looked at. We are just making them aware that we think there is a big problem with game mechanics, and the number of replies here give an indication of the number of people who see this as a valid issue.

This is a problem not just with fighters, but drones as well. Every BS and most cruisers have the ability to launch 5 drones of some type, meaning that 100 person fleet (not an uncommon sight) could potentially launch 500 drones. Most people don't use drones in large fights, because the lag they cause means they are almost impossible to use effectively and you are just ****ing money away because it's impossible to recall them if you need to warp out. I often forget to bring drones with me, and when I remember I could have I usually think 'oh well, probably wouldn't use them anyway'. This is a bigger problem with MS/Carriers, because you don't spend 1.5Bil on a ship not to use its primary weapon system.


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