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blankseplocked PETITION: Reduce fighter spam lag!
 
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Dagam
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.15 10:11:00 - [361]
 

Probably the best suggestion yet to reduce lag was to remove drone collision. That, and reducing fighters to 5 while keeping dps the same, like what was done to drones in RMR, would go a long way to making massive fleet fights playable. For some reason this is unreasonable to many on the Bob side, though one can guess why.

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.09.15 10:16:00 - [362]
 


LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.15 10:54:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: Dagam
Probably the best suggestion yet to reduce lag was to remove drone collision. That, and reducing fighters to 5 while keeping dps the same, like what was done to drones in RMR, would go a long way to making massive fleet fights playable. For some reason this is unreasonable to many on the Bob side, though one can guess why.


How about every goon launching drones before we jumped into them? Was that also part of goon initative to reduce lag? For some reason, this is unreasonable to many on BoB side, though one can only guess why.


Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2007.09.15 10:56:00 - [364]
 

Originally by: Usarua
Originally by: Kerfira
My stuff...

you very neatly neglected the part where turrets on a ship dont have velocities and trajectory calculations for flight into orbit around a target.

You'll kindly notice that I quoted 2 (two) pieces of information for the drones and 1 (one) for the turrets. The extra one is the flight calculation.

IF collision detection and flight path calculation was the cause of lag, the game would be lagged to hell when there was no battle going on, but all had drones out.
This however is not happening (drones out cause at max a slight decrease in responsivenes, even for a large fleet), so the argument is not valid.

What most likely causes the majority of lag is the server trying to receive, parse and act of massive amount of player actions, and making massive amounts of damage calculations per second.
Originally by: Kerfira
are you insane?

No, I'm just not accepting misrepresentation of the truth on the forum for the purpose of removing in-game enemies you're not good enough to handle.
Originally by: Kerfira
...good tactic to use lag to kill people with the excuse that you bought all those ships and should be able to use them.

Ask RA and their pets. They have the most experience in this area of the game.

Francesca Dell'Agio
Posted - 2007.09.15 10:57:00 - [365]
 

Give it 3 months until you see the bulk of carrier pilots switched to motherships for POS action. Law of diminishing returns.

ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.15 11:03:00 - [366]
 

some points on drones:
- fighter amount bonus should be converted to dmg/hp bonus (max 5 drones)
- dcu should be converted to drone dmg mod or they would be overpowered
- normal combat drones rof needs adjustment (2 sec on every light, medium and heavy combat drone should be something like 3, 5, 7 seconds while keeping dps the same)
- drone collisions should be removed (launching 500 idle drones might not lag the server to death but add cpu usage as well)

fire 59
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.09.15 11:05:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: 1Of9
we cant oublob anymore .. CCP nerf!!! Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

nooo we are blobed to hell NERF!! Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

nerf nerf nerf nerf Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Those smilies pretty much sum up what i did when i saw the goon whines ^^




James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.15 11:54:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: ElfeGER
- drone collisions should be removed (launching 500 idle drones might not lag the server to death but add cpu usage as well)

CCP should probably do this one first and then see how much lag it gets rid of. I'd be willing to bet a lot more then any other change.

Cmdr Sp0ck
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.09.15 11:59:00 - [369]
 

PATHETIC.

This is the only way i can describe the general Goonswarm community at this point in time.
You loose your ability to win fights using the traditional "lag out the system" tactic and you whine on the forums like little children. Had it been the other way around, nothing would happen cause neither would we come here crying like mad about it, nor would any of you goons complain.

You whined on the forums when our Titans DD'd you left right and centre so CCP would nerf them, now you whine so CCP can further nerf carriers. While you're at it, why don't you ask CCP to nerf BoB iga so that anyone who joins will automatically lose 80% of their SP's, only be allowed to fly T1 frigates, and only be able to fit 1 gun... Maybe then you'll be able to actually beat us 1 on 1...
Another solution could be to not attack our poses, then we wouldnt need to use carriers to repair them and could switch over to our Dreads. Laughing

I can only hope CCP disregards your whineage. It's sickening. No wait, it's beyond that.

Guys, grow up already! You've had more than enough time to do so by now.

jeffb
GoonFleet
Posted - 2007.09.15 12:21:00 - [370]
 

Edited by: jeffb on 15/09/2007 12:20:47
The OP is actually from the SHC forum and was written a long time before anything in 0oy happened. Nice troll though.

Cmdr Sp0ck
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.09.15 12:26:00 - [371]
 

Edited by: Cmdr Sp0ck on 15/09/2007 12:27:34
Originally by: jeffb
Edited by: jeffb on 15/09/2007 12:20:47
The OP is actually from the SHC forum and was written a long time before anything in 0oy happened. Nice troll though.


Yet you felt the need to make an EVE-O thread about it now. How curious, especially when the majority of people "signing" are goons... Rolling Eyes

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.09.15 13:11:00 - [372]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Sp0ck
Edited by: Cmdr Sp0ck on 15/09/2007 12:27:34

Yet you felt the need to make an EVE-O thread about it now. How curious, especially when the majority of people "signing" are goons... Rolling Eyes


What he said --^

Jesus HChrist
Posted - 2007.09.15 13:50:00 - [373]
 

lag sucks? try NOT bringing 400 ppl, 50 of which are in noob ships.

fecking whiners

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.15 13:56:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Sp0ck
Yet you felt the need to make an EVE-O thread about it now. How curious, especially when the majority of people "signing" are goons... Rolling Eyes


Well Bein's F&ID eve-o post was made here over a month ago. But please, continue to enjoy your tinfoil moment. Be sure not to include any constructive criticism or rational counter arguments, I'm sure your normal PvF warriors drooling about evil goonie nerf plots will do more to convince CCP.

[insert some emoticons here]

maria stallion
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:41:00 - [375]
 

It's kind of funny to see Goons want to reduce lagg, while history showed us they tried everything possible to create lagg to win a fight.

if you really want to reduce lagg why don't you try to bring even numbers to a fleet fight and not wait an hour extra to get 3 times as much as the oponent and after the fight whine about the lagg...

This just looks to me like, a small kid that can't win so he starts crying that the game is not fair. Start ordering your members to show up in decent ships or leave tehm behind, because bringing shuttles, rookie ships and pods to the battle is not reducing the lagg.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:45:00 - [376]
 

Originally by: maria stallion
It's kind of funny to see Goons want to reduce lagg, while history showed us they tried everything possible to create lagg to win a fight.

Goons don't want to reduce lag. They just want it to work only to THEIR advantage (after all the lag-blob is their invention).

When it doesn't they cry a lot Very Happy

Sir JoJo
Minmatar
x13
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:38:00 - [377]
 

all i see in this thread is Goons whine about lag which is highly amusing,
and second after that is CCP plzz make this Goonswarm Online.

i have faith in ccp and we all want lag reduced , but plzz goons mass whining every time u have a hard time just dont make u any better.

Menth
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:49:00 - [378]
 

Its not the fighters causing the lag. Its the 300-500 man blob that goonswarm has to bring to fight. like on 14/09/07 The server was fine with 300 in local. Goons try to jump in 300+ people. Server grinds to a halt. Not one fighter was used until at least 20 mins later. So no fighters have no effect on laggy fights as the lag is there anyways. They are rather handy at killing goons tho. Hence this thread.

wph0r
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:52:00 - [379]
 

Please change the topic to: "PETITION: Reduce Goonswarm forum spam!"

Ivan Hablovi
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
The Church.
Posted - 2007.09.15 16:55:00 - [380]
 

I admit that the sheer amount of fighters with one particular alliance is tremendous, I dont sign this since its only purpose is to undermine the high SP players capabilities, and for that, its obvious why this thread is more or less full of just Goon members.

And also. Fighters are not the reason for lag, in fights where there is +300 people, the lag is produced more from actual player actions.

Im ex-FinFleet member, and I remember fighting RAGOON back in the days, and I must point out, that back then, the lag was produced by ridiculous amount of simultanous jumpins, even the nodes went down like cardhouse in a hurricane.

So, if this thread is to reduce lag, I think its a failure to issue the actual problem. But in otherhand, as I see it. This is only another "Nerf High SP players who are Overpowered"

Last time this kind of thread was made, it was made by goons to nerf Titans, which had a good point in it. Titans were overpowered.

Now the actual "whine" in this thread, is that BoB has seemingly found a way to fight Goons in their own game, and its ****ing goons off.

Thats my 10 cents on this issue.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.09.15 17:38:00 - [381]
 

I'd be against these ideas for a few reasons:

It's a stop-gap fix with little effect in the grand scheme of things, been done before, didn't make that much difference.

Reducing the number of fighters nerfs carriers regardless what you do to hitpoints. Less drones to delegate, less to target, less to kill, can effectively engage less targets etc.

It would also be yet another nerf to CCP's anti-blob weaponry. Case in point would be titans, DDs were working to break up blobs and discourage super-blobs (especially on one grid), much whining happened, titans got nerfed; the second this happened the blobs grew again. Blobs = Lag. This "solution" exacerbates the issue of blob lag by nerfing a blob counter. Thereby cancelling out any gains achieved.

1 fighter delegated to a ship at one time? Laughing

Making people train up high rank skills to get back to where they currently are? Yeah that'll be a popular idea. I mean we've all seen in the past how much the eve community as a whole loves this approach to "balance" Rolling Eyes

Reduce the drone bay? A Domi can carry 2 waves of heavies and some assorted extras. A carrier can carry two waves of fighters [a limited amount] and some assorted smaller ones. This is a good thing. This is called balance

The only interesting idea i've noticed in this thread is removing drone collisions. Could be a good idea, but would give us immaterial drones, which does seem to me pretty silly, they should be solid objects (ideally a little more intelligent and capable of following orders than they are atm).


To summarise:

This idea: NO.

I say no to nerfing gameplay for such reasons. It's not a question of balance so shouldn't be a candidate for a nerf.

CCP are constantly trying to attack the Lag issues from every angle, the fact that nerfing of fighters hasn't been so much as mooted in god knows how many blogs and interviews does imply that it's not a profitable avenue of thought. Likely a drop in the ocean compared to the solutions they're working on.

COMPUTER SAYS NO, STOP WHINING.

Marvn Riley
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.09.15 17:41:00 - [382]
 

No.

This didn't come out until you lost a big fight. Now you're all whining about it.

Losing a battle doesn't make you game dev geniuses. It just means you lost. Get over it.

You jumped into a system with a prepared enemy, who had time to set their defenses to a tactical advantage. And got whipped in the process.

Don't cry that lag was an unfair advantage. I still remember the exploitative Bookmark bomb-shuttles you used to run, and the node crashing ftw against LV.

Pretty sure I would be seeing a completely different story if the winner/loser bracket had been flipped.

Which means you whine because you lost.

CCP can't fix you sucking. Sorry.

Marvn

MivMining
Gallente
NXS Industries
Posted - 2007.09.15 18:18:00 - [383]
 

Edited by: MivMining on 15/09/2007 18:19:01
So can we nerf T1 blobs? To the THREADNAUGHT!

Nova Cygni
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.15 18:56:00 - [384]
 

Edited by: Nova Cygni on 15/09/2007 18:56:53
you guys are right, those goons are complaining for no reason!

its not like BoB has ever been known to abuse broken game mechanics! they would never use the aggression timer to kill a titan, or abuse the clearly broken titan game mechanic, or POS bowl. And they CERTAINLY wouldnt use an absurd number of fighters just to lag nope nope. you guys are right.

oh wait? whats this picture i just found:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3491/fightersvr0.jpg

hmmmm.

Slaatibartfast
Forty Two
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:05:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: Slaatibartfast on 15/09/2007 19:05:05
Originally by: Nova Cygni
Edited by: Nova Cygni on 15/09/2007 18:56:53
you guys are right, those goons are complaining for no reason!

its not like BoB has ever been known to abuse broken game mechanics! they would never use the aggression timer to kill a titan, or abuse the clearly broken titan game mechanic, or POS bowl. And they CERTAINLY wouldnt use an absurd number of fighters just to lag nope nope. you guys are right.

oh wait? whats this picture i just found:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3491/fightersvr0.jpg

hmmmm.


Laughing

Damn those evil BoB and their h4xsploits!

I mean it's not like any sane person would choose to use capitals that can remote rep each other to fight other caps....that would be utter madness. Must just be to create lag which indiscriminately affects all and therefore would serve to shoot them in their own feet. Sheer tactical genius!

Rolling Eyes

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:05:00 - [386]
 

Originally by: Nova Cygni
Edited by: Nova Cygni on 15/09/2007 18:56:53
you guys are right, those goons are complaining for no reason!

its not like BoB has ever been known to abuse broken game mechanics! they would never use the aggression timer to kill a titan, or abuse the clearly broken titan game mechanic, or POS bowl. And they CERTAINLY wouldnt use an absurd number of fighters just to lag nope nope. you guys are right.

oh wait? whats this picture i just found:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3491/fightersvr0.jpg

hmmmm.


yeah .. finally u admiting you whining because u got OWNED and u had to win to come to the forums scream victory.. oh wait .. u cant can u ?
TO THE WHINEMOBILE you all read in the goons forum right?

Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:06:00 - [387]
 

Originally by: fire 59
Originally by: 1Of9
we cant oublob anymore .. CCP nerf!!! Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

nooo we are blobed to hell NERF!! Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

nerf nerf nerf nerf Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Those smilies pretty much sum up what i did when i saw the goon whines ^^






Very funny :D

Slaatibartfast
Forty Two
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:08:00 - [388]
 

Oh almost forgot;

Turret calculations create lag.

What about limiting each ship to one turret/launcher and adjusting/creating skills to up their dmg to the equivalent of current levels?

Oh wait, that's right, it's a crap approach to tackling lag.

Nova Cygni
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:10:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Slaatibartfast

Must just be to create lag which indiscriminately affects all and therefore would serve to shoot them in their own feet. Sheer tactical genius!

Rolling Eyes

Yes, because we all know that fighters dont auto target in lag or anything, so clearly where would the advantage be!

Bon Ali
Bon's Ecological Recycling
Posted - 2007.09.15 19:12:00 - [390]
 

Originally by: 1Of9

yeah .. finally u admiting you whining because u got OWNED and u had to win to come to the forums scream victory.. oh wait .. u cant can u ?
TO THE WHINEMOBILE you all read in the goons forum right?

I really hope english is your 9th language.


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