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blankseplocked PETITION: Reduce fighter spam lag!
 
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CSFFlame
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 21:56:00 - [1]
 

This is the opinion of a fellow goon and I thought I'd share it as a petition, as it addresses important points
Quote:
Alright, here’s the scoop:

• A carrier can launch up to three times more drones than a normal ship at one time and MSes up to 5 times
• Drones increase server instability at an exponential rate
• Drones will auto-aggro and keep killing stuff, even if everyone else is lagged, making them “immune” to lag
• Lag really sucks
• Solutions like upgrading servers to alleviate the lag are expensive and fleeting at best, since as the capacity for fighters increases, more people will come in and reach the max capacity again (see: Jita overpopulation)

Carriers and MSes create an inordinate amount of lag because they can launch more drones than any other ship. While twenty normal ships may collectively launch 100 drones, twenty carriers will launch 300. At this point, trying to do anything in system becomes futile, where the server is so flooded that it can take more than 5, 10, or even 15 minutes to respond to player commands.

Since the number of interactions with the server is a value of n^3, lag increases exponentially with each new drone launched.

• 5 drones require 125 times more server calculations than just one. (5^3 / 1)
• 15 drones require 27 times more server calculations than five. (15^3 / 5^3)
• 25 drones require 125 times more server calculations than five, and 15,625 times more calculations than a single drone.

Reducing fighter counts could create profound improvements in server performance, and considering the same was done for normal ships in RMR, it’s not an outrageous request.

What we, the undersigned, want is just for CCP to acknowledge fighter spam lag as a priority issue and make fixing and adjusting it a goal in an upcoming patch, whenever that may be. Combat cannot occur as the game was designed without distinct and effective action from CCP.

The quote below is just an example of what could work, though whatever happens is not as important as making sure something happens. This idea can be scrapped if a better idea works just as well.

Quote:

1. you can only have 1 fighter delegated to your ship at once instead of 5. That means any ship with a fighter assigned only get to use that 1 fighter and no other drones.

2. Reduce maximum deployable fighters from a carrier at any time to 5.

3. Make the Drone Interfacing skill apply to fighters so that at level V fighters get +100% damage and +100% HP.

4. give motherships an added +20% to drone damage and HP per level on top of what they already have. The Nyx gets +25% per level to keep it as it is.

5. Drone Control Units; Since the DPS of the whole thing is determined first by multiplication and then adding stuff, giving DCUs a percentage-based increase to anything drone related won't scale properly for a mothership and in the end would make something either gimped or absolutely insane. As a cheap cop-out, make it so DCUs add +20 damage to each of the 5 fighters, which gives a +100 total damage with one DCU (same damage increase as is now) and +500 total damage with 5 DCUs. Only place where that breaks down is that it would a sort of a stealth nerf to the Nyx and Thanatos, since before they would get more damage out of the additional fighters they could use. The technical limitations behind this may make it impossible to get this to work properly without reworking Drone Control Units in general.

6. reduce the drone capacity on carriers and MSes appropriately, since they seem to be designed to carry only a limited number of fighters.


Other, more complicated changes are also an option, but the bottom line is that something has to change.

Welfare State
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:22:00 - [2]
 

Fighters are currently killing the server's ability to process larger battles. The epic scope of large-scale space battles in EVE is a large draw for me.

Please consider the solution above, and look into this and figure out a way to reduce the lag caused by fighters.

/signed

Fray
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:26:00 - [3]
 

I really can't think of any ways to fix the problem, but yeah

/signed.

Good luck with that :)

Maverus Penthark
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:27:00 - [4]
 

I also agree with this, as dying to a swarm of fighters when the lag is so high one can't do anything is not fun.

/signed

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:29:00 - [5]
 

sup

Elle D
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:30:00 - [6]
 

/signed

Ah crap now I have to log out and /sign this with my bob alt.

Tea Spoon
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:30:00 - [7]
 

signed

Fights where CPU controlled entities and not your actual paying customers are a majority in both numbers and combat power are becoming ever more common.

Xander Gael
Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:30:00 - [8]
 

/signed

they did it before when we whined they should do it now when we beg

Mihailo Great
Dublin Core
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:31:00 - [9]
 

signed

Pringlescan
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:34:00 - [10]
 

Simply this is the biggest obstacle to having big fun lag free fights.
/Signed

Teldi Beinew
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:34:00 - [11]
 

/signed

Ungdall
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:35:00 - [12]
 

/signed

It's too bad things like this have to happen. Masive drone clouds would be a reality in normal SPAAAAAAAAAACCCCCEEEE-WAARRSSS but unfortunatly due to issues it's not something that can be done without screwing over the game.

also, in before "stupid goons always whining"

Berrik Radhok
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:35:00 - [13]
 

/signed

Von Druid
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:38:00 - [14]
 

/signed

Marius Duvall
Amarr
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:38:00 - [15]
 

/signed

Citric Acid
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:38:00 - [16]
 

/signed


Elunas
Rare Astronomical Phenomenon Enterprises
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:38:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Elunas on 03/01/2008 17:39:33
Bleh, I used to agree but not anymore.

CootBoot
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:38:00 - [18]
 

/signed

personally, i think you should just make drones non-collidable and drastically reduce the number of computations done per each, but whatever; they are a lag problem so fix them however you can

Tevlent
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:39:00 - [19]
 

/signed

Nordvargr
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Maverus Penthark
I also agree with this, as dying to a swarm of fighters when the lag is so high one can't do anything is not fun.

/signed

Sort of like dying to a swarm of newbies in tech1 frigates is not fun.

/signed

Guido gezelle
Duragon Pioneer Group
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:43:00 - [21]
 

/

Len Jahad
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:44:00 - [22]
 

I've never been hugely bothered by ordinary server lag, because it effects everyone equally. The recent prevalence of enormous fighter swarms is a different issue, however. It's unbelievably frustrating to have fighters targeting your expensive fleet ship and watch it melt in seconds while the server struggles to catch up and allow you to do anything, and then watch the fighters continue to destroy other ships while no actual player-controlled ships are able to respond.

Moreover, as we've discovered in recent days, fighter swarms create a huge (and very unintended) equalizer between cap fleets. Although I can't blame BoB for using every fighter at their disposal to defend their systems, it also creates a frustrating situation. It is simply not safe for a dread fleet to engage when a certain number of fighters are operating in system, because dreads require direct player input and fighers cripple the ability to provide that input. It doesn't matter if the attacking cap fleet outnumbers the opposing cap fleet significantly, because once the server reaches its breaking point, no capital operation is worth the risk of losing half the fleet to crashes or lag paralysis. This affords the defender the ability to defend the system by simply having a critical mass of carriers and motherships in system, completely independent of anything the attacker does.

Of course, this ability existed before with conventional ships, but it's a good deal more difficult to reach that critical mass with single ships than it is when deploying 10-25 fighers apiece.

Schlieren Altiprlayle
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:46:00 - [23]
 

sure why not

Traverse Moonstalker
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:46:00 - [24]
 

/signed

Alexander Knott
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:49:00 - [25]
 

/signed

olzi
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:50:00 - [26]
 

/signed

Ouroboron
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:55:00 - [27]
 

Signed.

Salastil
Gallente
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:56:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Salastil on 07/09/2007 22:56:42
Reducing the amount of Fighters per carrier is stupid, and reduces their overall effectiveness in battle, the creator was stupid for thinking it is even close to being a viable solution as multiple targets are harder to pin down than one super high HP drone. However I do agree that the crippling lag needs to be checked into and become a focus of development over unneeded stuff as walking in stations. Oh and I also like the questionable math and statistics he came up with too.

Puppchen
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:56:00 - [29]
 

/signed

Colonel Ives
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.09.07 22:58:00 - [30]
 

Signed.


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