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DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:02:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 29/08/2007 13:23:46
CCP made a game that doesn't hold you're hand. Concord only provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were supposed to be 100% safe you wouldn't be able to gank people in high-sec in the first place.


EVE online

1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were meant to be 100% safe from your mistakes in high-sec "see 2)" then you would be 100% safe.

2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs

3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates.

4) Removed since it was too easy to misinterperet "completely my fault". I would like to add that I never meant that PVP was the only way, only that removal of Non-consentual PVP would mean the destruction of EVE as we know it.

5) Yes there is room for legitimate complaints here & there, but most of them don't conflict with the 3 "rules" above. Even so as it stands most of the legitimate complaints can be at least avoided "though not nessissarily destroyed" for now. If you use your mind, you'd be surpized what you can escape.


The day one of the above changes is the day I quit
This is to prove once and for all that CCP would lose far more players from ruining the game and giving into the whiners. Please /sign or /unsign so we have a clear unarguable yes/no or agree/disagree in addition to your comments.

.
.
.
/signed DubanFP

P.S. Feel free to foward any "I got ganked, change game to suit my own needs rather then me adapting to your game" whines to this thread so they're no longer able to say the game would be better otherwise. Oh and thank you CCP not being afraid of making a game where sucess actually means something.

redialer
Minmatar
The African Contingency
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:04:00 - [2]
 

strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit Cool

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:05:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03
Originally by: redialer
strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit Cool

please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them.

RtoZ
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:06:00 - [4]
 

If you quit can I have your stuff?

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:07:00 - [5]
 

"1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection"

unless the empires get ****ed at concord for not protecting people in time, so they buff them up in0.9 and 1.0

but don't go jumping the boat if this happens, they will NEVER completely protect and keep someone safe, they might just make them use shield transporters or some nonsense in 1.0 space some day or so forth.

small ships would still be targets.
and as long as there are no lvl 3 or 4 mission in 1.0 space it would work out fine.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:08:00 - [6]
 

oh wasn't clear:P

/signed

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:15:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03
Originally by: redialer
strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit Cool

please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them.


I thought "/signed" posts were labelled as unconstructive?

That said, i do agree with your points.

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:20:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:21:17
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03
Originally by: redialer
strive to learn your lessons hard some of you will benefit Cool

please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them.


I thought "/signed" posts were labelled as unconstructive?

That said, i do agree with your points.

You can add your own comments & agreements. I just want a clearly noticable /signed or /unsigned so a newb can look at a glance without having to look at all the details. And something that's undisputedly for or against my thread.

redialer
Minmatar
The African Contingency
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:27:00 - [9]
 

add sec ratings to your points :)

RtoZ
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:31:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: RtoZ on 27/08/2007 02:31:57
Quote:
4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better".


Translation: You can just kill a few NPCs and make isk and be richer than me, and I will get ****ed off. If you come and pvp (solo pls) me (and my gang) will gank you and rob you blind. CCP loves me and not you... I just don't know why they never call Crying or Very sad

This thread is pretty useless, the game is pretty clear that nobody undocked is 100% safe, everyone who plays the game for a few days knows it, and to me it just seems like another rabid pvp'er fishing for self validation. Also, there is nothing to /sign onto, you make a statement which is pratically out of the tutorials... This thread is just gonna fade into obscurity, like dozens like it have done before. Please don't make another one like it, be kind on my eyes Smile

Lorissanna
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:31:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:07:03
please /sign or /unsign. This is mostly to prove once and for all "undisputedly" that more people play because of these things then despite them.


No. The forums, as in any game, represent a small portion of the gaming populous. A /sign or /unsigned post is far from indisputable.

Arkios Odymei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:39:00 - [12]
 

/sign

JonnyWarhawk
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:39:00 - [13]
 

If the game didn't have the death penalties it has and the quality PvP and 0 space that it has it would be quite bad really. I'd quit too.

/signed

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:42:00 - [14]
 

/unsigned

You are painting with too broad a brush here. Yes there are those who seem to want Hello Kitty Online in space. Nevertheless there are many legitimate gripes on mechanics that are patently bogus. Here are a few for example:

- Remote Repping NPC rats to kill a pilot in hi sec while that pilot has NO ability to engage you (maybe they fixed that one...not sure).

- Low Sec Motherships with Officer Smartbombs that cover the gate (due to the ship's size and Officer mod extra range). SBs are specifically not supposed to be able to do that but they do in this case. The Mothership meanwhile is unstoppable. No way to effectively attack it without it getting away.

- Some guy can flips your ore into a new can using a shuttle. His ALT/mate then at leisure takes all with a hauler. You get to attack the shuttle. Rolling Eyes

- Insurance payouts to suicide gankers. The only argument I have seen for keeping this is to not penalize someone who makes a mistake in Empire and loses their ship (despite there being a warning to stop you from making that mistake).

Doubtless there are other examples. And you may agree or disagree with any or all of the above items. The point is they are legitimate complaints. They are not suggesting a freebie. Ore thieves can still do their thing, suicide gankers could still do their thing, gate camping Motherships could still do their thing and so on. But it would balance out a bit of the risk versus reward.

Bottom line is you cannot lump all complaints into, "Shutup carebear! Adapt or die!"

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:52:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:56:05
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
/unsigned

- Remote Repping NPC rats to kill a pilot in hi sec while that pilot has NO ability to engage you (maybe they fixed that one...not sure).
I'm pretty sure they did fix this one

- Low Sec Motherships with Officer Smartbombs that cover the gate (due to the ship's size and Officer mod extra range). SBs are specifically not supposed to be able to do that but they do in this case. The Mothership meanwhile is unstoppable. No way to effectively attack it without it getting away.
There are room for changes "like the difficulty of killing a MS", but you should still be able to avoid these if you know what you're doing.

- Some guy can flips your ore into a new can using a shuttle. His ALT/mate then at leisure takes all with a hauler. You get to attack the shuttle. Rolling Eyes
Jetcan mining was never intended. It's a creative use that's come into it's own. But essentually when you drop a can you're throwing the stuff out, of course people can take it. Hell there was a time when you didn't even have agression timers. The change was more intended for cans from NPC kills then jetcan mining anyways. Really jetcan mining is the walkaround here not the thieves.

- Insurance payouts to suicide gankers. The only argument I have seen for keeping this is to not penalize someone who makes a mistake in Empire and loses their ship (despite there being a warning to stop you from making that mistake).
This actually isn't nearly as profitable as people make it sound really. Most of the good stuff goes PoP. Anyways don't go around with 200mil or more stuff afk in an untanked ship and it's not a problem. This one above all your other thing IS YOUR FAULT if it happens.



There are legitiment complaints & need for balancing here and there. But if the thread can even remotely fall into one of the 4 categories in the main thread it's their fault more then anything else.

Anyways, at least thank you for expressing your opinion in a flame-free way. Even if i disagree with them.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.08.27 02:57:00 - [16]
 

If that is true how come npc corp characters can hide from direct pvp but still influence market pvp? Evil or Very Mad

Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.08.27 03:14:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 27/08/2007 02:22:41
CCP made a game that doesn't hold you're hand. Concord only provides consequences not absolute protection. If you were supposed to be 100% safe you wouldn't be able to gank people in high-sec in the first place.


EVE online

1) Concord provides consequences not absolute protection

2) If you screw up you actually pay for it. If you die 99.9999% chances are you did something to cause it. Fly with a poorly tanked ship with over 200 mil in loot? Go into low-sec without proper knowledge on what you're doing? Not pay attention to the rules & take from someone else's can? Join a strange gang? It's YOUR fault, not ours, not the pirates, not CCPs

3) The game does not hold your hand. You're responsible for your own losses, and assessing risk vs reward. Keep all your eggs in 1 basket? Ok, but you're accepting the risk, not us or the pirates.

4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better".

The day one of the above changes is the day I quit
This is to prove once and for all that CCP would lose far more players from ruining the game and giving into the whiners. Please /sign or /unsign so we have a clear unarguable yes/no or agree/disagree in addition to your comments.

.
.
.
/signed DubanFP

P.S. Feel free to foward any "I got ganked, change game to suit my own needs rather then me adapting to your game" whines to this thread so they're no longer able to say the game would be better otherwise. Oh and thank you CCP not being afraid of making a game where sucess actually means something.
Quite frankly the 99.8% of the active playerbase who never visit the forums have no issues with Eve or settle them with a petition.. They go about thier business having a grand ole time in this wonderful place CCP made for us.. Its just the 0.2% of "The Few and The Proud" forum warriors who make a fuss here about whatever they feel arsed about by starting a thread to get their daily attention ***** quotient.. Wink

/signed /unsigned whatever.. It doesn't really matter cause nothing thats not a sticky by a CCP employee on the forums doesn't have any value past the fleeting entertainment we get from reading them.. Except of course for the vanishingly rare insightful thread that appears every few months or so.. And even those usually get trolled to death in short order by the metagamers.. Very Happy

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2007.08.27 03:16:00 - [18]
 

really should rename "system security"

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.08.27 03:26:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Anyways, at least thank you for expressing your opinion in a flame-free way. Even if i disagree with them.


FYI I'd love to respond to your answers to my post but this is not the thread to get into all that (besides they have mostly been done to death anyway).

I just think people need to evaluate threads a bit better. There was one in Ships and Modules where the OP was clearly being sarcastic and many totally missed it and flamed away as if the person was being serious.

Some complaints are just whines. Some threads are clearly self-serving. Some are honest attempts at a change but poorly thought out (and some few are shockingly stupid even though you can tell the person somehow really thought it was a great idea). Some are honest attempts and well thought out. Even if you disagree with whatever the point is I think it serves EVE better if people draw these distinctions a bit better.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.27 04:19:00 - [20]
 

/signed

Even as a carebear I have a very deep appreciation for EVE's nature. If it changes, I'll have to find another way to spend my time.

Torlin Valric
Minmatar
Minmatar Mining Division
Posted - 2007.08.27 04:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

Quite frankly the 99.8% of the active playerbase who never visit the forums have no issues with Eve or settle them with a petition.. They go about thier business having a grand ole time in this wonderful place CCP made for us.. Its just the 0.2% of "The Few and The Proud" forum warriors who make a fuss here about whatever they feel arsed about by starting a thread to get their daily attention ***** quotient.. Wink




What he said

Awox
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better".


Say DubanFP, where did you get that 4.7 sec status from?

Judging by your killboard activity (pve fit raven losses especially) I would say you are just a carebear poser.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:07:00 - [23]
 

Can't really sign it, since it's not really taking everything into consideration and taking a bit of a one sided approach.

I'll say this though, EVE can be Hello Kitty Online if you want it to be. You never have to fight, if you don't want to, and use your brain in going about your business.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:15:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Awox
Originally by: DubanFP
4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better".


Say DubanFP, where did you get that 4.7 sec status from?

Judging by your killboard activity (pve fit raven losses especially) I would say you are just a carebear poser.

It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature.
At least you posted with your main.Laughing

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:19:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature.
At least you posted with your main.Laughing


*waves ePeen in the shape of a State Raven*

K'reemy G'udness
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:23:00 - [26]
 

/unsigned

I agree with you in spirit, but I think there are flaws in the mechanics that need to be addressed as well.

It really doesn't makes sense that 2 chars at war should be allowed in the same gang, for example.


Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:28:00 - [27]
 

I'd like to see some changes to how gangs work frankly. Being in an alliance gang and still not being able to intervene in conflict across corporations is pretty daft.

No I don't care for a second about some noob being suckered into a gang, that happens once.

Death Kill
Caldari
SolaR KillerS
UN1CUM
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:30:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: DubanFP

please /sign or /unsign.


Listen tool, if you have a thread where people post nothing but /signed then the mods will lock the thread for lack of constructive posting.


Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.27 06:08:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Tarminic on 27/08/2007 06:34:50
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Tarminic
It's not like he's waving his e-peen about, honestly. Even if he is a carebear, even if he did lose his mission Raven, it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate EVE's nature.
At least you posted with your main.Laughing


*waves ePeen in the shape of a State Raven*

I can't imagine that being popular with the ladies. Shocked

EDIT: t != r

Zoi Opia
Opia Investments
Posted - 2007.08.27 06:27:00 - [30]
 

It was all fine until this part:

Originally by: DubanFP
4) You can not just kill a few NPCs and feel sucessful. If you manage to kill, construct, or raid your way to the top it actually means something. You actually have to be "Better" then other REAL people to do "Better".


Who are you to say what people can or cannot do to feel successful? What some people do might not feel important to you, but it doesn't mean that they haven't achieved anything, or that the things they do are without a meaning. Sorry (not really), but I cannot sign this.


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