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blankseplocked i know why wow has millions of players and eve is so small
 
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:17:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: meritorious brown
Originally by: SiJira
you can play that entire game as if you are the only one on the server and other people are just npcs


my gosh. aren't you the little wow veteran?
no i havent even seen the game

Ok. You've just invalidated your whole post.
Neutral

]

Aye lol,
just for a change eh ?
WOW is actually made for group participation.
It was not designed to play solo.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:18:00 - [32]
 

You know why i like EVE ?

The PVP - The Risk, the ballsyness of the game. I guess thats why not many girls play it like wow but u know :) thats another thread.


I PLAY WOW FOR PVE

I PLAY EVE FOR PVP

Kind of. :) simple....

i killed 1000's of ppl on wow, but they never lost anything by it. It never cost them anything when they died.....just a free trip to the graveyard.

WoW is nice and friendly, EVE is badass. Icant ransom some1 for 50mill just to let them live in wow. LoL


theres so many differences in the game i cant beleive u are comparing them like this.


Try comparing it to STAR TREK ONLINE WHEN IT COMES OUT ^^

max bygraves
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:19:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:14:23
I play both games.

Have 2 EVE Characters and a 70 Warrior on wow. Im main tank for a guild so i cant really leave them :)


I like both, sure all u carebears here can stick wow cos it has like zomg 100,000,000 more players and eve only 30k on a nite.


But there totally different games, u cant really compare them and say WOW is gonna DIE EVE will live FOREVER.

No mate, wow got about 7/8years left init Guaranteed. Not sure about EVE we'll see how Star Trek Online goes ^^


LOL AND NO FK N WAY CAN U PLAY THE WHOLE ENTIRE OF WOW SINGLE PLAYER LMAO. Research before you say these stupid things else u just look like a ******.


words like END GAME - 40 man RAID. LoL id like to see you solo Tempest Keep the EYE that would be funny.


Solo Arena ? 1 VRS 5 lol . just lol, i dont even know why i bothered to reply in this thread. I like both games, for different reasons.

Im a console gamer, PC Gamer. Different Games on different platforms. Im hardcore mate, one thing tho. id say EVE has an older generation of players, not all but in general the kids tend to play wow.......because its abit more straight forward, abit more friendlier to the noob and easier to understand. I think those reasons alone make for the generation gap. i dunno :)


But point I Love them both, both have given me good times and good friends.


Peace


Anoter 7-8 years in WOW ?
ROFL
in fact actually it probably has,
The players are so stupid they will pay $40 dollars for each expansion just to get another 10 levels each year and more leet epix.
Sums the playerbase up tbh.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:20:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:14:23
I play both games.

Have 2 EVE Characters and a 70 Warrior on wow. Im main tank for a guild so i cant really leave them :)


I like both, sure all u carebears here can stick wow cos it has like zomg 100,000,000 more players and eve only 30k on a nite.


But there totally different games, u cant really compare them and say WOW is gonna DIE EVE will live FOREVER.

No mate, wow got about 7/8years left init Guaranteed. Not sure about EVE we'll see how Star Trek Online goes ^^


LOL AND NO FK N WAY CAN U PLAY THE WHOLE ENTIRE OF WOW SINGLE PLAYER LMAO. Research before you say these stupid things else u just look like a ******.


words like END GAME - 40 man RAID. LoL id like to see you solo Tempest Keep the EYE that would be funny.


Solo Arena ? 1 VRS 5 lol . just lol, i dont even know why i bothered to reply in this thread. I like both games, for different reasons.

Im a console gamer, PC Gamer. Different Games on different platforms. Im hardcore mate, one thing tho. id say EVE has an older generation of players, not all but in general the kids tend to play wow.......because its abit more straight forward, abit more friendlier to the noob and easier to understand. I think those reasons alone make for the generation gap. i dunno :)


But point I Love them both, both have given me good times and good friends.


Peace


9/10 wow players post in CAPS


So ******s like you can read the important bits and skip the rest.

Theronnos
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:21:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 14/08/2007 12:05:37
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
I could honestly make a big list of how EVE is just the same as WoW, and in parts WAY worse, but it would just get the old "No you fanboi go to wow!" arguments.

EVE players don't listen, not even at a fanboi level. Honestly. Look around.
would you really be honest?


I think i could look at things in a "non sided" manner, yes.

There are so many similarities in MMOs if you just can take a moment to step out of the, hmm, how to put it, "i like this one" puddle people tend to stand in.


True, there are many similarities. Though you need to look at general gameplay to see if it's fun or not. And yes, EVE has very harsh(bad?) gameplay/game mechanics. Though i think it's these harsh rules that that make us stay but also forces many to leave after the trial(I have seen this many times). I also think that many leave because it's a very unsocial game, as in that you don't have a character and that you don't have direct control over your ship/guns. (walking in stations might fix this)

Saying that WoW is bad means that your either a moron or that your talking about personal taste.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:22:00 - [36]
 

Truth is EVE is the only Space MMO. It has no 'competition' until very soon.


U know how many Wizards & Warrior MMO's ?? i not even go there.


SiJira
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:24:00 - [37]
 

interesting when i talk about wow people tell me to go to wow and when i say i havent seen it they tell me i dont know what i talk about - well lets see i know many people that do play wow and what they tell me and how they play shows what i said to be true im sure some of you are ex addicts and can agree if you have truely let go of that game

ill agree that its like talking about apples and oranges but im sure more people fit for pvp and go pvp in wow in these - organized - groups

while in eve people fit up according to what their gang will do and how they will do it best with what fits

anyways good luck to all the wow carebearsYARRRR!!

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:25:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Okano Hykeido
U know how many GOOD Wizards & Warrior MMO's ?? i not even go there.


Aye, fixed it a bit Very Happy

Also, space massives have been around. EVE is just the WoW of space MMOs.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:26:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:30:18
Originally by: max bygraves
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:14:23
I play both games.

Have 2 EVE Characters and a 70 Warrior on wow. Im main tank for a guild so i cant really leave them :)


I like both, sure all u carebears here can stick wow cos it has like zomg 100,000,000 more players and eve only 30k on a nite.


But there totally different games, u cant really compare them and say WOW is gonna DIE EVE will live FOREVER.

No mate, wow got about 7/8years left init Guaranteed. Not sure about EVE we'll see how Star Trek Online goes ^^


LOL AND NO FK N WAY CAN U PLAY THE WHOLE ENTIRE OF WOW SINGLE PLAYER LMAO. Research before you say these stupid things else u just look like a ******.


words like END GAME - 40 man RAID. LoL id like to see you solo Tempest Keep the EYE that would be funny.


Solo Arena ? 1 VRS 5 lol . just lol, i dont even know why i bothered to reply in this thread. I like both games, for different reasons.

Im a console gamer, PC Gamer. Different Games on different platforms. Im hardcore mate, one thing tho. id say EVE has an older generation of players, not all but in general the kids tend to play wow.......because its abit more straight forward, abit more friendlier to the noob and easier to understand. I think those reasons alone make for the generation gap. i dunno :)


But point I Love them both, both have given me good times and good friends.


Peace


Anoter 7-8 years in WOW ?
ROFL
in fact actually it probably has,
The players are so stupid they will pay $40 dollars for each expansion just to get another 10 levels each year and more leet epix.
Sums the playerbase up tbh.



Does it make u feel better ? by calling the wow player base stupid ? Id say that 99.9% of the earth's population is stupid mate just take a little look out your window. or watch the news.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:29:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:22
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:00
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
U know how many GOOD Wizards & Warrior MMO's ?? i not even go there.


Aye, fixed it a bit Very Happy

Also, space massives have been around. EVE is just the WoW of space MMOs.




Can u name one ? cos i dont remember anything like it Since Frontier Elite II on the amiga.



Good ones, hmmm Everquest I & II, Ultima Online, DaOC, Vanguard, Conan.....warcraft. To name but a few all had BIGGER player base than EVE. So u cant really call them crap.

Mangtraxx
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:30:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Mangtraxx on 14/08/2007 12:31:57
Originally by: Lady Trade
well i guess it's the old argument... just because 50 billion flies eat **** doesn't mean that it's more tasty then chocolate. Wink

But seriously:
WoW's sole purpose is to make a lot of money so it was developed not to be an all round great game but simply to fulfill as many peoples needs with the least amount of extra development time. EVE on the other hand was made to be a cool game and sometimes cool games are harder to learn and master then the mainstream ones. It's like free jazz VS. main stream music or a work of art VS. a poster of Pamela. One is cheap trash with a nice package/wide pants/good figure and the other tries to win you over with content and substance.

Oh and GOD FORBID that WoW ever dies... even if only 1% of the WoW players would try EVE then their negative vibes will break everything!


I agree with your sentiment but your points are wrong. You've got it the wrong way round in one sense - Wow is an all encompassing game, whereas eve serves a small niche. There are less things to do in wow, but its caters for a much larger and diverse groups of players despite this. The fact there is so much to do in eve, and the fact the game punishes players for mistakes so harshly, means it turns off large groups of gamers that would otherwise possibly enjoy the game. Yes there are more things to do / more way to make a living / eve is more complex than Wow, this doesn't mean Wow is trash.

I have been spending a lot of time around the games industry recently as i'm trying to get a job for a developer (attending conferences, seminars, trade shows etc) Wow has 8.5 million subscibers paying for the privalage to pay their game, it has turned the gaming world upside down. They money flowing from investors to mmo developers is massive, because of wows success. If you said to someone 5 years ago there'd be an mmo with 20 times the subscriber numbers any other game has ever reached at its peak, they have thought you were mad. It's because it has mass appeal, but still has depth and complexities enough to keep more mature or cerebral gamers happy (read: addicted). Don't be fooled by the semi cartoony visuals and the talk of 14 yr old wow players on gaming forums - wow is an exquisitely crafted game, with a great engine, fantastic artwork, great net code, and near perfect execution. They understand their market perfectly and have created a gaming crack cocain perfectly tailored for them.

Its not the game itself that gives it a bad repuation, its the playerbase. I doubt anyone will topple it within the next couple of years at least unless blizzard screw the game up somehow and (they're unlikely to do anyting stupid lest they break their money printing press) simply because it will be so hard to beat the guys they have working at blizzard (blizz cream off the very very best staff from other companies generally) and they can just keep releasing content to keep people happy playing longer. People who've played wow with half a brain can tell its a great game, even if they don't like it. I personally don't like the grind, or the non permanence, lack of any death penalty and inability to affect the world in a meaningful way, but I can still appreciate it as a prospective game artist.

I love seeing people post the "go play wow" comments on this forum, so deliciously ironic. The irony is in the the fact people here revile wow not for the game itself, but the people who play it - they dislike what they belive is wows playerbase. The people everyone hates are the rude little 14 your old scroats that play the game, or the guys who run round killing people going "omg lol pwned noob" and posting the O RLY? bird in the forums.

The "go play wow" people are exactly the sort of people and behave exactly the way which causes all the hate for wow in the first place. Everytime they say "go play wow", they're basically outing themselves as exactly the sort of little ****s that people here hates Wow players for.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:34:00 - [42]
 

Nice reply to the above poster. finally a guy with some sense :)

Sanzorz
Amarr
Mark Of Chaos
Posted - 2007.08.14 12:51:00 - [43]
 

I moved from WoW to EVE.

Several reasons. Most mmos are fantasy based and this was certainly a new shred of light for trying a different universe.

I had 6 level 60 chars in WoW before TBC. Addictive perhaps, but it's silly easy to level. When 10 more levels hitted the shelf, then I knew it was like going going all over again. In EVE you can just keep going all the time and still be part of the game. You wont experience much in instances in WoW if you aren't 70.

The lore in Warcraft was awesome, but sadly they are just twisting it more and more to silly parts to create more money. Sadly the old team who created most in the old Blizzard games left or has been fired. I can't complain about the EVE lore, because I hardly took my time to read about it.

The amount of time demanded in WoW was way too much for me in the end. EVE is easier to balance as it goes on offline with the training. WoW dosen't.

Ingame amount of time. As said...EVE can be more balanced whereas in WoW you had to dedicate ALOT of time getting consumables for the next raid depending on your class. It felt like worthless time, because instances shouldn't require these many consumables.

WoW was alot of fun to me, but now I just get the feeling it's taking another road. The lore is getting more and more fubared (just look at the changes for their new expansion) and the time required IF you wanted to raid cannot be balanced.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:05:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:22
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:00
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
U know how many GOOD Wizards & Warrior MMO's ?? i not even go there.


Aye, fixed it a bit Very Happy

Also, space massives have been around. EVE is just the WoW of space MMOs.


Can u name one ? cos i dont remember anything like it Since Frontier Elite II on the amiga.


Earth and beoynd was a complete space massive, starwars galaxies(in a sense) was one too, especially since spaceflight came in.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:22
Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 12:29:00
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Okano Hykeido
U know how many GOOD Wizards & Warrior MMO's ?? i not even go there.


Aye, fixed it a bit Very Happy

Also, space massives have been around. EVE is just the WoW of space MMOs.


Can u name one ? cos i dont remember anything like it Since Frontier Elite II on the amiga.


Earth and beoynd was a complete space massive, starwars galaxies(in a sense) was one too, especially since spaceflight came in.




Star Wars Galaxies was never really about space tho, Sure u could have space battles and do missions in space. Infact the space in the game was almost more advance than that of eve.....fact being you could walk around your YT1300(Falcon) But that game was never really about space. It happened on the ground, still does. You dont trade in space, u dont dock at space stations. Its ground oriented game with yeah some space flight. I wouldnt really call it a space MMO playing SWG since beta was a jedi knight untill they nerfd the game mechanics tried to port it to console (oh no please dont get me started with SWG)


Ok Earth and Beyond il let u have that one :)

coldplasma
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:18:00 - [46]
 

You've been complaining a lot about this game recently, I think you should leave and play WoW. Enjoy your level 70 cap.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:19:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Star Wars Galaxies was never really about space tho, Sure u could have space battles and do missions in space. Infact the space in the game was almost more advance than that of eve.....fact being you could walk around your YT1300(Falcon) But that game was never really about space. It happened on the ground, still does. You dont trade in space, u dont dock at space stations. Its ground oriented game with yeah some space flight. I wouldnt really call it a space MMO playing SWG since beta was a jedi knight untill they nerfd the game mechanics tried to port it to console (oh no please dont get me started with SWG)

Ok Earth and Beyond il let u have that one :)


Yeah, there were others aswell, but they were so supported/good that they were cancelled before launch or VERY quickly after.

Just saferto take fantasy up.

EVE was almost a flop aswell, it just managed to put the right things into release.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:26:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Sanzorz
I moved from WoW to EVE.

Several reasons. Most mmos are fantasy based and this was certainly a new shred of light for trying a different universe.

I had 6 level 60 chars in WoW before TBC. Addictive perhaps, but it's silly easy to level. When 10 more levels hitted the shelf, then I knew it was like going going all over again. In EVE you can just keep going all the time and still be part of the game. You wont experience much in instances in WoW if you aren't 70.

The lore in Warcraft was awesome, but sadly they are just twisting it more and more to silly parts to create more money. Sadly the old team who created most in the old Blizzard games left or has been fired. I can't complain about the EVE lore, because I hardly took my time to read about it.

The amount of time demanded in WoW was way too much for me in the end. EVE is easier to balance as it goes on offline with the training. WoW dosen't.

Ingame amount of time. As said...EVE can be more balanced whereas in WoW you had to dedicate ALOT of time getting consumables for the next raid depending on your class. It felt like worthless time, because instances shouldn't require these many consumables.

WoW was alot of fun to me, but now I just get the feeling it's taking another road. The lore is getting more and more fubared (just look at the changes for their new expansion) and the time required IF you wanted to raid cannot be balanced.



yeah i totaly agree with you m8, it takes alot of time. I have very good friends that left the game because they couldnt dedicate the amount of time it took to keep playing it End game. About the game lore tho, they havnt twisted it to much yet just changed a few minor things like maps from the old games. but not the lore itself. But i beleive they will be doing after this expansion or implementing more lore. The story of Arthas is about to be completed tho and finaly let people fight against him. They havent changed Arthas or Illidans lore in anyway or by adding Outland or Northrend to the game. These places have always been in Warcraft lore.

But i fear they will be doing in another expansion down the road......but i cant see myself playing warcraft for that long. Ive had enough of my time there now, completed almost all instances End Game and its enough for me now.....its just im main tank for the guild- alot of people have put in many many hours of time to get me the gear i have and to be able to do the things i can...me included. I cant bail out on them now just because im enjoying eve so much right now. So im playing both lol. Raiding in wow and playing eve also, good thing about eve is i can still lvl whilst offline imba. but thats just one thing.


just cut the smack talk people who have never even played wow. And i wouldnt even compare the two games, because they are totally different in my eyes as a gamer.

Okano Hykeido
Minmatar
No Compromise
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:28:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Okano Hykeido on 14/08/2007 13:31:19

Originally by: coldplasma
You've been complaining a lot about this game recently, I think you should leave and play WoW. Enjoy your level 70 cap.



sorry to give u the wrong understanding, no i love eve. i will enjoy my lvl 70 cap on wow also, its not about levels like eve really, skill comes into it. lol ill enjoy my tier 5 Destroyer set also. but i cant enjoy eve because omg i might say some nice things about wow? LoL


Just cut the smack talk about wow cos half the people here have never played it. I hated wow mate beleive me, but id never played it untill the killed SWG. then i actualy gave it more than 5minutes. Its very different to eve, read some more replies to get a better understanding of whats being said Coldplasma.

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:41:00 - [50]
 

Why is everyone so hostile??? While he worded it a bit weird, the idea is pretty sound.

WOW caters to the masses, and the masses don't like EVE that much. Ofcourse that's not all of it. Massive advertising, and the Blizzard name sure do a lot as well.

But they're games designed for completely different audiences, and while EVE may not be for adults, and WOW not for kids. If you look at the average age of the players of these 2 games, you will see that EVE does indeed attract a older playerbase ( I'm not saying more mature... really look at COAD )

Mangtraxx
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:42:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: coldplasma
You've been complaining a lot about this game recently, I think you should leave and play WoW. Enjoy your level 70 cap.


Originally by: Mangtraxx


I love seeing people post the "go play wow" comments on this forum, so deliciously ironic. The irony is in the the fact people here revile wow not for the game itself, but the people who play it - they dislike what they belive is wows playerbase. The people everyone hates are the rude little 14 your old scroats that play the game, or the guys who run round killing people going "omg lol pwned noob" and posting the O RLY? bird in the forums.

The "go play wow" people are exactly the sort of people and behave exactly the way which causes all the hate for wow in the first place. Everytime they say "go play wow", they're basically outing themselves as exactly the sort of little ****s that people here hates Wow players for.


Please see above. Only the 5th post after mine, lol.

Death Kill
Caldari
SolaR KillerS
UN1CUM
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:44:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: SiJira
wow cators to the single player gamers and console retirees
you can play that entire game as if you are the only one on the server and other people are just npcs

in eve even when using braindead tactics you will do better in a group

so in 5 - 10 years console retirees will start dying - wow dies
and the modern generation of pc gamers will find everything they wanted in EVE



xbox live you tool.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: SiJira
wow cators to the single player gamers and console retirees
you can play that entire game as if you are the only one on the server and other people are just npcs

in eve even when using braindead tactics you will do better in a group

so in 5 - 10 years console retirees will start dying - wow dies
and the modern generation of pc gamers will find everything they wanted in EVE



xbox live you tool.
lets not start a discussion about the downfalls of that - you tool Rolling Eyes

SiJira
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:55:00 - [54]
 

oh and to the guys claiming older people play wow
naive Rolling Eyes

Death Kill
Caldari
SolaR KillerS
UN1CUM
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:56:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: SiJira
wow cators to the single player gamers and console retirees
you can play that entire game as if you are the only one on the server and other people are just npcs

in eve even when using braindead tactics you will do better in a group

so in 5 - 10 years console retirees will start dying - wow dies
and the modern generation of pc gamers will find everything they wanted in EVE



xbox live you tool.
lets not start a discussion about the downfalls of that - you tool Rolling Eyes



I guess the PC will go down with it considering live will link pc and console gaming Rolling Eyes

SiJira
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:58:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: SiJira
wow cators to the single player gamers and console retirees
you can play that entire game as if you are the only one on the server and other people are just npcs

in eve even when using braindead tactics you will do better in a group

so in 5 - 10 years console retirees will start dying - wow dies
and the modern generation of pc gamers will find everything they wanted in EVE



xbox live you tool.
lets not start a discussion about the downfalls of that - you tool Rolling Eyes



I guess the PC will go down with it considering live will link pc and console gaming Rolling Eyes
read post 53 then get a clue that i meant console games of the old Rolling Eyes

JoDirt
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:14:00 - [57]
 

Wow is popular because Blizzard has created a lot of really great games, has spent a ton on advertising and has been established for many years now. Wow is a simple game but not everyone is looking for a session in critical thinking when they turn on the video games Laughing

Eve is also a great game however CCP doesn't spend as much on advertising, doesn't have the same level of financial backing. Eve has a very large learning curve which is always cited in the game reviews.

In closing - apples and oranges.




Paulo Damarr
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:26:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Okano Hykeido
Im hardcore mate


This speaks volumes LaughingLaughingLaughing

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:43:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: SiJira
oh and to the guys claiming older people play wow
naive Rolling Eyes


They do, as much as kids are in EVE.

Simple really, anyone thinking otherwise is a bit "dunduu". Very Happy

gpYUAN29
Posted - 2007.08.14 14:50:00 - [60]
 

YOU! SiJira! STOP POSTING! STOP POSTING NOW AND FOREVER! For the love of God stop posting.


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