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Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2007.08.14 03:46:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Magnum III
Originally by: Anglo
i like the death star idea... we should be able to make such stars/ship wich can move around in eve but would take 1 hour pr jump or something. but then it would also OMFGWFTPAWN an entire system upon arival. something wich would kill kill only capital ships.. now that ship/starbase would be ausome!

serious:
i sugest that ccp make a countership to the titan, a starship, wich would be a small craft but wich could do something against the titan, like neutralise its ddd. and then the titan would ofc get the old ddd back. but such a ship would be funneh


Yes, and Even in Star Wars one X Wing blew up the Death Star.

A Battle Badger blew up the second one Twisted Evil

BobFromMarketing
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.14 09:48:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Duskraven
Originally by: Moonlight Express
Edited by: Moonlight Express on 13/08/2007 16:07:26

Stealth bombers and bombs? Has anyone died to a bomb before? I can't say that I heard of any one, much less a fleet dyeing to a bomb. Anyone?

So again, the problem is there needs to be something to discourage blobbing. It has nothing to do with newer or older players. The game canít handle the blob anyway, why encourage it by design?


I find bombs absolutely delightful. See a bunch of ships pos repping? Lay down a bomb, your odds of catching several of them in it are pretty good even with the counter. Same for when a fleet jumps into a bubble camp. Once they start materializing drop the bomb, by the time it goes off most of them have come out of cloak and are furiously burning out of the bubble.

Also, using the bomb as a scare tactic is an amazing thing. Its a huge psychological weapon if used properly.

I completely agree,the problem that I have seen with the Bombs is the high cost, I would love to use them in battles, but if its gonna cost me 20+million for ONE bomb, why bother when I can just blob with 50 Alliance mates and go shoot them for free? If CCP would make bombs easier to access, it would perhaps make it a more feasible countermeasure to blobs.

Relaria Hossin
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.14 10:13:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 14/08/2007 01:20:20
The supercap changes were pretty good to be honest. Some ner***e was definately in order. (Now fix smarties so they kersplod everything like they did in the past!)

But ..

It is all well and good preaching the virtues of numerical superiority, and "nubs" grouping up to gank "vets", and I agree in principle, however, the servers just aren't up to the job.
At the moment numbers do not balance the field, they just swamp it, turning it in to a quagmire of lag. Battles are often determined by that lag, rather than tactics, numbers, or skills, and that is a shame.
I am all for huge battles, with the results determined entirely by the players rather than the whims of the server, and I look forward to the day that happens, as I assume do my enemies.

I would be genuinely interested to see how such fights would play out.


Everything in this post is true.

Velios
Minmatar
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2007.08.14 10:31:00 - [94]
 

I can't see what all the crying is about.

For me there are only two types of player: Empire Players and 0.0 Players.

Eve has always been the way that once empire players have the required skills they can operate on the same level as more experienced players as equals.

There are just a lot more players these days that meet the required standard to live comfortably in 0.0


Inthemix
Amarr
Haribo.
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:21:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Remind me how many titans Bob killed when it's pilot was logged on?


Remind me how many titan your masters killed before the nerf-patch?Neutral

Ugor Batarr
Minmatar
HeroinPixelSpace
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:41:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Lord Quad
Originally by: marakor
If you look at the patches that have been put in place and that they intend to bring in it seems to me that ccp seem to be against high SP and long term players having an advantage over a low sp players.


Thats the biggest problem with the game...the whole "I've played for 5 years, thus everyone who has played less than me is a total nub who I will look down upon, and how dare you want to play!" Seriously grow up...owning your account for a long time (or buying an old char) does not mean you are a better player, lots of old accounts have some very poor players...high SP players do have big advantages over new players, but it shouldnt be an "I Win button"...



So true, so true.
BTW, I also agree with all the others with similar posts.
And, BTW, lots of SP or the ability to fly (Super-)Capitals doesn't mean you're good player. Just ask the Fallen Souls Dreadnought Pilot losing his Naglfar yesterday Wink. If they fit all their capitals like that I'm not surprised that Tri ****d them so badly Razz.

cal nereus
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.08.14 16:50:00 - [97]
 

I want noobs to win. CCP apparently wants noobs to win. Is there a connection? Wink

RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
Posted - 2007.08.14 22:10:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: marakor
If you look at the patches that have been put in place and that they intend to bring in it seems to me that ccp seem to be against high SP and long term players having an advantage over a low sp players.

The newest patches have even allowed the ultimate anti-blob ship the titan to be all but useless unless you wish to lose it after a single shot. Alliances with a titan should be considered like a country with nukes not every country has them but the way i see it is that a large alliance that has gone to a lot of effort to recruit good ppl with high sp and build these super capitals should have the advantages they bring.

Eve has gone from a game that needed time and skill to actualy achieve somthing awsome like taking a system to a blob vs blob non-skill related laggy shoot em up.


Titan is a nuke, powerful but after use it's wasted. It can take out many people down the drain however, but has also a great affect as "terror" balance ship.

Jane Spondogolo
Amarr
NoobWaffe
Posted - 2007.08.14 22:28:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 14/08/2007 22:29:41
Originally by: Moonlight Express
Edited by: Moonlight Express on 13/08/2007 16:07:26

There's nothing wrong with giving newer players advantage to get in to the game and be useful in a short period of time. The problem is that the game encourages blobbing without a weapon to counter it.

Remote dooms device was one, but certain faction whine and harassed CCP and eve community on a massive smear campaign, that CCP caved in and nurfed it without giving an alternative to discourage blobbing. It is now back to the whom can put up and keep up more POS towers. That's the problem. Capitals are not worth the cost of putting them up on the battlefield, because they die to a blob that the POS towers attract. Stealth bombers and bombs? Has anyone died to a bomb before? I can't say that I heard of any one, much less a fleet dyeing to a bomb. Anyone?

So again, the problem is there needs to be something to discourage blobbing. It has nothing to do with newer or older players. The game canít handle the blob anyway, why encourage it by design?



The paradox of all this, is your either a Molle alt, or you have no ****ing idea how Titans actually affected the game.

I've never ever seen such a motivation to blob as the titan generated, nor have I ever seen so many veteran players quit in disgust at the game breaking they caused.

The Titan wasn't nerfed because of OMG WHINING NUBS. ASCN where not "NUBS" , Neither where D2. Both of them where murdered by single player piloted Titans. It was nerfed because it was a danger to eves survival as a viable long term game. You only need to look at Star Wars Galaxies (Combat upgrade) to see what happens when you leave that sort of brokenness un fixed. The game dies.

Psilocin
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.14 22:32:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: cal nereus
I want noobs to win. CCP apparently wants noobs to win. Is there a connection? Wink


More like Developer Alliance amirite

Jane Spondogolo
Amarr
NoobWaffe
Posted - 2007.08.14 22:55:00 - [101]
 

Actually heck, I have more to say on this topic.

The Titans where one of the stupidest things ever introduced to this game. They completely took away any incentive to work towards high SP goals for anything other than the dreadfully dreary capships. Before the age of Supercaps, players would be able to train up for , say, a T2 Sniping battleship, or a good fleet Hac, or maybe even a kick ass Command ship. You could take one into battle and really put that SP to use.

Now there almost is no point, because some fool is just going to set off a doomsday and your no better than the nub in the T1 ship. Specifically dead. So instead you bring along gimped battleships, that any newbie could fly, tanked towards one or two types of doomsday, and feel depressed that all that training was rendered worthless by one bad Dev decision. The Titan nerfed EVERYONE.

In the end, its due to a misunderstanding about weapons of mass destruction. In the real world, the reason nations don't fling nukes at each other willy nilly, is because the man with the "I WIN" button knows if he presses it, someones going to press HIS "I win" button, and bang! The wife and kids are dead, and the planet is now a glowing radiological mess.

But with Titans, effectively eves version of the H bomb, there was no penalty to it. You where a fool NOT to fire it off.

And that folks is unbalanced.

Now compare it with what I consider the most balanced super-ship in the game. The 1400 arty T2 Sniper. With that battleship you have 2 choices, you either tank it, and lose the sniping ability, but gain a much safer investment in survivability, or you take a risk, and pimp it with T2 mods and what not , and make something that can murder almost anyone your size and lower at a crazy range. Just watch out for that dictor.

I think the problem starts with the Carrier. The gain without risk factor of being able to sit in a pos, and assign fighters. That was a terrible decision, but one rectified later on. The Titan got that issue, and magnified the hell out of it. Bad Bad Bad move.

At least its partly rectified. Not quite, but I think a HP damage nerf and a little easier to tackle would make the titan just right. Lots of ownage, but with a risk that must be assessed soberly.

Berrik Radhok
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.14 23:30:00 - [102]
 

it's me, I'm one of the noobs in the OP

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.15 00:18:00 - [103]
 

ccp want noobs to be able to win because otherwise why start playing ?

Ituralde
Amarr
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.08.15 00:21:00 - [104]
 

Didn't CCP want BOB to win? Dear oh dear. Looks like its time to invest in yet another tinfoil hat.

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.08.15 00:26:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
ccp want noobs to be able to win because otherwise why start playing ?


that kinda makes sense. i don't think you can talk like that in this place.

Alias11
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.08.15 00:32:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: marakor
Unfortunatly that leads untimatly to a mega blob nap or alliance overpowering everybody and i hate that idea with a passion.


yeah lets just go dial up LV and see how that one worked.

"No Alliance can be found with 'Lotka Volterra' in the beginning of its name."

Oh wait I know another one we can call

"No Alliance can be found with 'Ascendant Frontier' in the beginning of its name."


hm.

Adm Tecumseh
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.15 06:17:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Niraco79



Stuff +

OMG i just realized that in this thread (who is almost a flaming thread) an AAA, a FIX, a Goon and a BOB just agreed on something.

THIS IS NUTZ THIS IS CAOD


Everyone wants to be able to play this game. Which means everyone wants it to be playable. Currently it is not playable to any great extent. This is something that I really don't understand. Because I have played this game since Beta and I have never seen it so difficult and laggy. I have been in some of teh greatest battles and experienced less lag then a 30 on 30 in omist just last week. And no amount of technique or hints help.

CCP really screwed up by double nerfing the Titan. Cancel remote DDD or let it be bubbled but not both. That is too much of a nerf.

To put it in perspective for you goons it would be like capping a systems population at 50. People, not just a couple but hundreds of people in this game worked collectively for long periods of time to build Titans etc. And now due to some poorly planned "balancing " act CCP has totally belittled their efforts.

I agree with a previous poster. There is no way anything should be able to bump a titan out of alignment short of a nano-dread.

There is no way a 3 mil sp player in a 7 million isk ship should be able to lock down a 65 billion isk ship.

But indeed that is where we are at. So Congrats CCP in your efforts to reduce the blob you actually managed to legitimize the blob as the only successful strategy in Eve.

Map Screen
Minmatar
Flat Earth Society
Posted - 2007.08.15 06:28:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
Originally by: Niraco79



Stuff +

OMG i just realized that in this thread (who is almost a flaming thread) an AAA, a FIX, a Goon and a BOB just agreed on something.

THIS IS NUTZ THIS IS CAOD


Everyone wants to be able to play this game. Which means everyone wants it to be playable. Currently it is not playable to any great extent. This is something that I really don't understand. Because I have played this game since Beta and I have never seen it so difficult and laggy. I have been in some of teh greatest battles and experienced less lag then a 30 on 30 in omist just last week. And no amount of technique or hints help.

CCP really screwed up by double nerfing the Titan. Cancel remote DDD or let it be bubbled but not both. That is too much of a nerf.

To put it in perspective for you goons it would be like capping a systems population at 50. People, not just a couple but hundreds of people in this game worked collectively for long periods of time to build Titans etc. And now due to some poorly planned "balancing " act CCP has totally belittled their efforts.

I agree with a previous poster. There is no way anything should be able to bump a titan out of alignment short of a nano-dread.

There is no way a 3 mil sp player in a 7 million isk ship should be able to lock down a 65 billion isk ship.

But indeed that is where we are at. So Congrats CCP in your efforts to reduce the blob you actually managed to legitimize the blob as the only successful strategy in Eve.


Boohoo, you'd think that people would notice they're bringing out the same ******ed arguments over and over. Who gives a **** how much the ship costs, based on isk arguments Entity should be able to fly his state raven into a high-sec system and annihilate everything including concord because his ship costs a truckload. Also go figure a dictor designed for stopping ships from warping, stops ships from warping... Shocked.

Titans are fine, lag sucks. Lag/desync is the only issue. A titan should die to a proper fleet, and now they do.

You whiners need to wipe the tears from your eyes, they're obscuring your sight.

Adm Tecumseh
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.15 07:01:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Map Screen
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
Originally by: Niraco79



Stuff +

OMG i just realized that in this thread (who is almost a flaming thread) an AAA, a FIX, a Goon and a BOB just agreed on something.

THIS IS NUTZ THIS IS CAOD


Everyone wants to be able to play this game. Which means everyone wants it to be playable. Currently it is not playable to any great extent. This is something that I really don't understand. Because I have played this game since Beta and I have never seen it so difficult and laggy. I have been in some of teh greatest battles and experienced less lag then a 30 on 30 in omist just last week. And no amount of technique or hints help.

CCP really screwed up by double nerfing the Titan. Cancel remote DDD or let it be bubbled but not both. That is too much of a nerf.

To put it in perspective for you goons it would be like capping a systems population at 50. People, not just a couple but hundreds of people in this game worked collectively for long periods of time to build Titans etc. And now due to some poorly planned "balancing " act CCP has totally belittled their efforts.

I agree with a previous poster. There is no way anything should be able to bump a titan out of alignment short of a nano-dread.

There is no way a 3 mil sp player in a 7 million isk ship should be able to lock down a 65 billion isk ship.

But indeed that is where we are at. So Congrats CCP in your efforts to reduce the blob you actually managed to legitimize the blob as the only successful strategy in Eve.


Boohoo, you'd think that people would notice they're bringing out the same ******ed arguments over and over. Who gives a **** how much the ship costs, based on isk arguments Entity should be able to fly his state raven into a high-sec system and annihilate everything including concord because his ship costs a truckload. Also go figure a dictor designed for stopping ships from warping, stops ships from warping... Shocked.

Titans are fine, lag sucks. Lag/desync is the only issue. A titan should die to a proper fleet, and now they do.

You whiners need to wipe the tears from your eyes, they're obscuring your sight.


Look who is whinning about whinning you frigging whinner.

Shadowsword
Gallente
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.08.15 07:40:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Shadowsword on 15/08/2007 07:40:21
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
Originally by: Map Screen
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
Originally by: Niraco79



Stuff +

OMG i just realized that in this thread (who is almost a flaming thread) an AAA, a FIX, a Goon and a BOB just agreed on something.

THIS IS NUTZ THIS IS CAOD


Stuff... Shocked.

Titans are fine, lag sucks. Lag/desync is the only issue. A titan should die to a proper fleet, and now they do.

You whiners need to wipe the tears from your eyes, they're obscuring your sight.


Look who is whinning about whinning you frigging whinner.



Doesn't change that he's right, ship price isn't a good argument for nearly invulnerables solopwnmobiles. CCP itself stated that several times.

If you want a game where equipment cost make you win almost everytime, you can go play Wow, create a lv19 night-elf rogue toon overstuffed with high-level enchants and rare weapons, and mash repeteadly the same button to win against new players.
Then you'll have your "I cost more, I should pwn you, Haha!" game.

Adm Tecumseh
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.15 07:51:00 - [111]
 

Don't confuse what I said. I am talking about the monetary value of the collective efforts. I am nor saying nor did I say that the most expensive ship and fittings should win. I am saying put it into perspective. A 100 kilo corpse should not cause a titan or almost anyother ship to bump out of alignment anymore then a **** ass dictor with **** ass skills should be able to hold it down.

Ugor Batarr
Minmatar
HeroinPixelSpace
Posted - 2007.08.16 11:16:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Ugor Batarr on 16/08/2007 11:19:56
Originally by: Adm Tecumseh
Don't confuse what I said. I am talking about the monetary value of the collective efforts. I am nor saying nor did I say that the most expensive ship and fittings should win. I am saying put it into perspective. A 100 kilo corpse should not cause a titan or almost anyother ship to bump out of alignment anymore then a **** ass dictor with **** ass skills should be able to hold it down.


And WHY NOT?
Your only arguments are AGAIN ISK and SP. And again somebody has to tell you that this is a bad argument at best - if it is one at all.
SP in EVE mean NOTHING as you didn't do anything for them but wait and pay your monthly fee. You can have ****loads of SP and ISK and still be the biggest noob having no idea how to fly the ships you can afford and fly (according to your SP).

Radgun
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.08.19 19:34:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Gungankllr
THIS IS MADNESS




THIS-IS-CAOD!

Franga
Caldari
NQX Innovations
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2007.08.19 20:52:00 - [114]
 

This thread rocks.

Franga
Caldari
NQX Innovations
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2007.08.19 20:53:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: cal nereus
I want noobs to win. CCP apparently wants noobs to win. Is there a connection? Wink


Freakin' DEV-HAXORZ!

unhealthyman
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.19 21:09:00 - [116]
 

Don't hate the player hate the game.

People don't blob because its the only way to win - no alliance out there turns down people from a fleet engagement. It is simply good tactics to bring all of your available force into a battle. If bob had more people turning up to fleet engagements, they'd be there too.

There would be no problem if eve could better handle 300 v 300 fights. But until (if) that happens, you can't penalise one side for daring to be a more active/popular/larger alliance.

Titans were clearly obviously broken. Anyone who disagrees either has no concept of what 0.0 fleet warfare is like, or is just sulking because they are on the side that lost out by the Titan nerf.

Xrensa
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.19 21:17:00 - [117]
 

The titan's "I WIN" button was alienating both newbies and vets, so that point is moot.

Avalloc
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.19 23:53:00 - [118]
 

Why do people keep leaving out the fact BoB got themselves into this bind. If you don't want multiple Alliances rallying to destroy you then maybe your Diplomats should work a little harder. Each and every pilot that plays the game pays to do so, and that means they deserve a fair shake whether they have a few million skill points or 50 million.

Stop crying about 'low skilled blobs' because if you look closer there are TCF, Snigg, RA, AAA, IAC, KOS, and Goonswarm in there who have 30m+ skill points each in the fight.

marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
Posted - 2007.08.20 01:01:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: marakor on 20/08/2007 01:12:18
Originally by: Avalloc
Why do people keep leaving out the fact BoB got themselves into this bind. If you don't want multiple Alliances rallying to destroy you then maybe your Diplomats should work a little harder. Each and every pilot that plays the game pays to do so, and that means they deserve a fair shake whether they have a few million skill points or 50 million.

Stop crying about 'low skilled blobs' because if you look closer there are TCF, Snigg, RA, AAA, IAC, KOS, and Goonswarm in there who have 30m+ skill points each in the fight.


Why have goons hijacked this thread it was never my intention to point a finger at either bob or goon as im not particularly enamoured of either of you.

My intention was to point out that game is broken simply because it cannot handle the load a 200 vs 200 or larger fleet battle put upon it it cannot handle 30 vs 30 most days.

Yes goons are gonna be pro titan nerf and pro blob lag because it suits your blob mentality and bob are gonna be against it for there own reasons.

But the fact remains that without fixing the game before making changes that encourage low sp recruitment and blobing ccp are ruining the whole experiance for a lot of ppl including the new players who have to rat there asses off just to get in a ship look at a frozen screen for 20 mins, crash and wake up in a clone vat.

marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
Posted - 2007.08.20 01:11:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Jane Spondogolo

The Titan wasn't nerfed because of OMG WHINING NUBS. ASCN where not "NUBS" , Neither where D2. Both of them where murdered by single player piloted Titans. It was nerfed because it was a danger to eves survival as a viable long term game. You only need to look at Star Wars Galaxies (Combat upgrade) to see what happens when you leave that sort of brokenness un fixed. The game dies.


Im sure i read on this forum about more than one titan being popped before the nerf so perhaps i should ask a rep from these murdered aliances who's were killed?.

Also im very sure eve has lost considerably more players to lag than it ever will to a titan and will proly continue to do so.


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