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Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:00:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rells on 02/08/2007 16:25:04
Edited by: Rells on 02/08/2007 16:12:26
This post will be potentially long. The issues it contains can not be glibly passed off as "nerf this" or "buff that". If you wish to reply, I ask you to read the entire post first. Sometimes I have a habit of being wordy, as my corp members will tell you, but I always have a method to my madness. Also please note that I will talk about AGONY in a positive light but AGONY is actually a challenging organization to get into so this isn't a recruitment post. Information on that can be obtained on our web site or thread in the recruitment forum. Make no mistake about it, I am very positive about my corp as a whole, definitely not unbiased, but I don't think that diminishes the salient points.

I see a good deal of posts that call for the ner***e of this or that or the buffing of this or that. I also see any number of complaint posts about various things from blob warfare to cloaking in someone's home system to the "ease of piracy". Not surprisingly people want things to all go their way and often fail to see the impact on overall PvP of their pacet project.

Strangely, many of the people in this forum that are complaining seem to have missed a fundamental grasp of the principles of PvP in Eve. I constantly hear debates centered around which ship is "best" and "worst" with examples of one vs. one combat. However, Eve was never a one vs one game. It was always a game of teamwork and coordination that encouraged players to cooperate. This is the only MMOG out there where a bunch of motivated newbies 2 weeks into the game can take down a 4 year old player in his faction fitted battleship. The principles of this game dictate the concept of team warfare. To be effective you need combined arms, not just everyone in battleships. Nearly everything can be countered in one way or another. In fact one vs one encounters are most commonly either prepared, contrived incidents or massive overkill on one side or another. In general PvP you usually can't arrange to know who you are coming up against so you have to fit for general purpose encounters and work as a team. So any attempt to balance the game for one vs one PvP would necessarily have to imbalance it for teams. CCP needs to balance the game for teams and leave one vs one as contrived as it is.

So what is the synthesis for man of these posts about nerfing blobs or cloaks or, well you name it? In my opinion there are three main causes for the whines and the blobs. The causes are lack of motivation to think, risk averse pilots and finally pure self interest without considering the impact on the game as a whole.


Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:01:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Rells on 02/08/2007 16:01:57
Lack of motivation to think is something that I see gripping tons of pilots in the game. I have to practically beat it out of the newbies to AGONY but after they get to higher rank most of them have lost that destructive mentality. Many players merely wish to get in their big ship, go out in a big crew and "own all." When these players are confronted with a "blob" their only answer is to get a bigger blob or nerf the other guy's blob (but of course not theirs). Some players who want to one vs one the whole universe scream for the ner***e of blobs in general and decry the "decline of PvP" which usually means they can't just one vs one the whole world. Often gangs come into AGONY's home region and has interceptors, battleships, command ships and everything in between. Instead of *****ing and moaning for a nerf, we get in a pack of 10 to 20 destroyers. The opponent laughs when he sees us on his scanner, smacktalk is inevitable. After two or three passes where we flyby at 50km and instapop their interceptors, the laughing usually dies down. The key here is that we didn't fight the blob with a bigger blob or by whining for a nerf but with tactics. This is only one of many tactics we have to fight a blob with inferior force. Instead of thinking of the blob as insurmountable, you have to look at it with a discerning eye and see its weaknesses and be willing to exploit those weaknesses. Whatever the situation in the game, there is always some tactic to be found to defeat that situation. Those with a tactical mindset will do far more with far less than the blobbers.

More and more pilots these days tend to be "risk averse". The preponderance of players in Eve are very cautious with their ships and will only engage when the force is massively overwhelming. I find this one to be more than a little amusing, after all it is just play isk and play characters, not real lives at stake but you would never know that from the way some act. There is a corporation near where AGONY lives that practices this religiously. The corp in question opens up incredible amounts of smacktalk (often against the EULA) and calls AGONY cowards for not engaging them when they have 5 to 1 odds on AGONY. For example, they will assert that we have the same numbers of people in the system, as if 10 cruisers or below is a fair fight with 3 carriers and other ships. Naturally those fights we decline and we chose the right time and conditions to engage them. Their goal is to inflate their own egos and try to look cool to each other of course but it merely makes them look stupid. Leaving the individuals in question asside, people blob up to be safe, to make sure they dont lose their ship. No manner of changes you can make to the game will ever change that; CCP's attempts to change it are futile at best. The problem is that risk aversion can also be used against that target. Those interceptors in that blob probably felt pretty safe until we did flybys on them. Now whenever we come up on overview they will just jump away for their own safety (not that I blame them). We have psychologically turned the tables on the risk averse crowd. Unfortunately many of those that are risk averse come back to the forums and cry that this or that should be nerfed; suggestions like "CONCORD should be in lowsec" are born of extreme risk aversion. I push AGONY pilots to be very aggressive but to chose their battles. If they can warp in and blow up an assault frig at the cost of three tech 1 frigs, why not?

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:02:00 - [3]
 

Finally, many poeple are posting without any regard to the impact of their ideas on the game as a while. This action comes from the desire to improve one's personal situation and is thus entirely selfish. You could refer to this as the "give me the biggest gun but dont give it to anyone else syndrome" or perhaps "balance in favor of ME" syndrome. This manifests itself in people making suggestions without considering other impacts. For example, suggesting that they be able to use bubbles in lowsec to capture pirates and forgetting that those bubbles can also be used by the pirates. When such things are pointed out, the poster will consider some other route around the problem but again from an egocentric view of the game. A nerf to ECM is great for those that dont fly ECM ships and devastating to those that do fly it. The resuting wave of imbalances are often hard to fix.

When proposing a fix, a nerf or even just a change, the poster needs to think about what they are posting and consider that it doesn't fall into one of these three categories of posting. You should think about the impact of the post on the netire game, be sure it doesnt result either from trying to merely improve your personal situation or being risk averse or trying to fight against the unstoppable blob that is quite easy to defeat as it is. For the sake of the game, please dont post without thinking it out. The worst case scenario is that it gets implemented rashly. As CCP seems to prioritize based on the average whine level, you may inadvertently trigger a large whine parade and yet another of CCP's famous catastrophic changes.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:06:00 - [4]
 

I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:09:00 - [5]
 

unless they made nos hard to fit, take tons of skils, it was a good change.

I love the lastest nerf buff. but I can understand why buffing things would make you mad.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:11:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....


The problem was not that they needed changing but that the changes haven't been carefully thought through enough. The changes made are rash and lack testing and have forgotten their impact on other ships specialized for their usage. It is the ECM nerf all over again. ECM needed to be nerfed but the way it was done turned Caldari Recons into scrap metal.

iLoveYour TastyNoobTears
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:20:00 - [7]
 

Cry some more.
-
Please?
-
Pretty please!

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....


The problem was not that they needed changing but that the changes haven't been carefully thought through enough. The changes made are rash and lack testing and have forgotten their impact on other ships specialized for their usage. It is the ECM nerf all over again. ECM needed to be nerfed but the way it was done turned Caldari Recons into scrap metal.


BUT THE CURSE IS STRONGER NOW!

stop commenting on ships you know nothing about.
only the blood raider ships got the short bus.

try the ships and modules forum. peopl eare very happy with the changes there.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:23:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: iLoveYour TastyNoobTears
Cry some more.
-
Please?
-
Pretty please!


My fault. I forgot to mention the mentally challenged individuals that mindlessly roam the forums posting flames and other unhelpful things on perfectly reasonable threads, most often without bothering to read th thread at all. You can help by making the lives of the people like the one I quoted miserable to they quit the game and go back to another game that suits their minimalistic mentality.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:25:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Rells on 02/08/2007 16:26:11
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....


The problem was not that they needed changing but that the changes haven't been carefully thought through enough. The changes made are rash and lack testing and have forgotten their impact on other ships specialized for their usage. It is the ECM nerf all over again. ECM needed to be nerfed but the way it was done turned Caldari Recons into scrap metal.


BUT THE CURSE IS STRONGER NOW!

stop commenting on ships you know nothing about.
only the blood raider ships got the short bus.

try the ships and modules forum. peopl eare very happy with the changes there.


Sigh .. this post isnt primarily about the nos nerf. Christ, I suppose Ill just remove those sentences so poeple focus on the whole post not just the second paragraph.

Removed from first post. Paragraph 2.

Quote:
For example, the NOS nerfs now pushed through by the strong complaining crowd will cause untold imbalances in the game that will take months to rework into a balanced game. Certainly NOS needed to change but the way it was done was precipitous and the impact on other ships such as the Amarr recons seems to have been totally ignored. Ships that had used them heavily now will have their effectiveness and potential utility reduced and that will have to yet be balanced again with another change in an unending yo-yo.


iLoveYour TastyNoobTears
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: iLoveYour TastyNoobTears
Cry some more.
-
Please?
-
Pretty please!


My fault. I forgot to mention the mentally challenged individuals that mindlessly roam the forums posting flames and other unhelpful things on perfectly reasonable threads, most often without bothering to read th thread at all. You can help by making the lives of the people like the one I quoted miserable to they quit the game and go back to another game that suits their minimalistic mentality.


Mmmm yeahhh. That's the stuff..mmmmhmm
-
Deeeelish

El'jonson
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:26:00 - [12]
 

I agree with the Rells on this one, the constant nerfing and buffing depending who whines the loudest is very annoying. Nos does have a counter thats to stay out of range, so if your fighting against someone/some group or a ship type that uses nos you should learn to use this by engauging them from outside there nos range. This goes the same for everthing in eve. The only reason that things should need nerfing/buffing is when it involves new content which cannot be totally balanced before its released.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:27:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....


The problem was not that they needed changing but that the changes haven't been carefully thought through enough. The changes made are rash and lack testing and have forgotten their impact on other ships specialized for their usage. It is the ECM nerf all over again. ECM needed to be nerfed but the way it was done turned Caldari Recons into scrap metal.

Agreed that the Amarr Recons need re-visited, as does the Bhaal BS. My thought was a 7.5% per recon level reduction in Cap use for Neutralizers for those ships (and giving the Bhaal a bonus to Neuts); neuts are hard on the Cap, but doing this would give those dedicated ships a definite advantage and turn Neuts into their version of EW. With Recon 5 the Amarr recons could *almost* run a rack of neuts indefinitely if they dedicated to it like the Caldari have to now with EW.

I think CCP actually did think this through except for those specialized ships. This is a big time buff to your standard Amarr ship (who were always lowest on cap and most susceptible to NOS), very heavy tanks (which suck LOTS of cap) and a nerf to smaller "blobs" because a 5 vs 1 the individual ship can make full use of NOS while the attackers can't making the fight last longer and giving them a chance.

I think its a good nerf, but agree that a couple of ships seriously need their bonii altered to accommodate it...

tikinish
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I agree with your sentiment that EvE is a game of tactics, team-work and ability; right up until you tried to include NOS in it.

Maybe the NOS nerf was because 3 ships with NOS fitted could take down almost any ship or player, with minimal skills and no counter? How can a module, that you can use the largest size of the first day of creation, that is more effective than any other module of its "size", that both is an offensive weapon AND increases your own defensive ability, that is a 100% success against any opponent be even remotely considered "balanced"? Just curious....


The problem was not that they needed changing but that the changes haven't been carefully thought through enough. The changes made are rash and lack testing and have forgotten their impact on other ships specialized for their usage. It is the ECM nerf all over again. ECM needed to be nerfed but the way it was done turned Caldari Recons into scrap metal.


i actually read though your whole text.. all that crap to whine about nosses getting nerfed and about blobs having to be less effective.
which is two things that just NEED to be done..

first of, the nos change is almost perfect, lets see what it's perpose is:
1: to sustain own cap in a situation fighting something more powerfull:
2: to give you an advantage while fighting a bigger ship.
3: dragging the other ship down to your lvl.

what was it used for.
1:to kill the enemies cap.
2:to permanently keep you at max cap.
3: to have a all purpose weapon-
4:to disable the enemies weaponry and tank.

okey so now we look at neutralisers
what are they made for:
1: to kill the enermies cap.
2: to disable the enemies weaponry and tank.

now what where they used for.
1:nothing chose nos did it.
2: same as one

do i really need to stress it out more?!

besides the ships that where using it wher NEVER meand to use it as a primary weapon or to use it so they could make a parmenent nano speed tank.
it was misused so much, and it totally destroyid the reason why it was implemented.

ecm NEEDED that nerf, they where way overpowered before, and still as it is now they are very effective, the first ships to destroy in fleets seems to always be the ecm specialised ships, so don't tell me it is underpowered now;)
but now it is in balance.

the recon ships are made for support as EW machines NOT as an attacking dps force.
they are not meand to be soloing around, they are made for gruops and they are still Very effective.
the reason ecm was not used at this time is because other ew types are still shining so bright that ecm is useless compared to them..

dampers still need their nerf, webbers still need differend sizes and a sieze nerf type, so it is not all purpose..

....

now to blobs...
well..
this guy at first page bottom
called Deep Throat.

he makes quite the points which i do not care to repeat, so read what he says instead:)

and stop trying to hide a whine tread behind the millions word of text...
it's annoying to think that some one have something worth reading to say to find out that it is a freaking whiner that have NO intention in making the game balanced for the individuel OR for the gruops

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:40:00 - [15]
 

Sigh. Yet another nerf caller completely undissuaded by the post.

Damps dont need to be nerfed, you need to learn some tactics to counter them. Tracks dont need to be nerfed, you need to learn tactics to counter them. Webs dont need to be nerfed, you need to learn tactics to counter them.

ECM needed to be nerfed but the WAY it was done was totally horrible. The rook and falcon are now just junk. There was always a counter to ECM, you just needed to use your BRAIN. 5 damps on a Jamming ship is going to make that jamming ship have a very hard time indeed. Changing them so that they routinely miss on a battleship after deploying 6 jammers against the battleship is ridiculous for a ship supposedly specialized in that.

The problem is that people like you seem to think the game should be pure gank and tank. The EWAR and the other facilities add so much more richness to the game and the attempts to kill it off in favor of gank and tank frankly **** me off. Go ruin another game please, not this one.

The fact that you cant figure out how to defeat something is not a reason CCP should nerf it.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: El'jonson
I agree with the Rells on this one, the constant nerfing and buffing depending who whines the loudest is very annoying. Nos does have a counter thats to stay out of range, so if your fighting against someone/some group or a ship type that uses nos you should learn to use this by engauging them from outside there nos range. This goes the same for everthing in eve. The only reason that things should need nerfing/buffing is when it involves new content which cannot be totally balanced before its released.

I don't think the whining is really doing that much. I mean look at all the whining about industrial things that never get touched. It might SEEM like it, but it could just as easily be that CCP thinks so too...

New content will always need to be "balanced", that is a given (in spite of all the complaints that they nerfed "their" profits, etc). Also every module needs to be re-evaluated when new content comes out because they easily alter subtle balances. We absolutely don't want CCP to do like the Shadowrun or Mech Warrior PnP games did where every single update made everything else obsolete.

So I support the post, in most ways, and agree with the sentiments behind it. I don't see the situation quite as dire though ugh

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:45:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Rells
I push AGONY pilots to be very aggressive but to chose their battles. If they can warp in and blow up an assault frig at the cost of three tech 1 frigs, why not?

Generally? Because if I get podded, that's 40m (minimum) and probably closer to 150m, if not in the billions, of implants down the drain. That's why my carrier pilot never flies anything smaller than a well-tanked battleship anymore. As much as I love implants, they discourage the "throwaway ship" tactics; undocking in a 500k isk suicide frigate with a 1b isk clone is patently stupid. Perhaps that's a good thing, but the point is, it's something you have to consider before universally mocking people for not engaging in suicide tactics.

--P

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:56:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: Rells
I push AGONY pilots to be very aggressive but to chose their battles. If they can warp in and blow up an assault frig at the cost of three tech 1 frigs, why not?

Generally? Because if I get podded, that's 40m (minimum) and probably closer to 150m, if not in the billions, of implants down the drain. That's why my carrier pilot never flies anything smaller than a well-tanked battleship anymore. As much as I love implants, they discourage the "throwaway ship" tactics; undocking in a 500k isk suicide frigate with a 1b isk clone is patently stupid. Perhaps that's a good thing, but the point is, it's something you have to consider before universally mocking people for not engaging in suicide tactics.

--P


It isnt a suicide tactic. People get killed in the fight but that isnt their goal. And getting a POD out unless you are in a bubble is quite easy. Fortunately because every time I get podded I have to redo all my settings. Perhaps you should fly with fewer implants in or get a jump clone. This "risk adversity" of yours is of your own making, not CCPs. Rells routinely flys with two +4 implants for what I am training and if I get podded I just let the skill finish and no big deal. You can have your snakes and +5s and so on but if ou never do anything than sit in a carrier hoping someone will be stupid enough to agress you and warping out whenever someone shows up with more force then you would lead a boring life by our standards.

Cleric JohnPreston
Posted - 2007.08.02 18:04:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
Also please note that I will talk about AGONY in a positive light but AGONY is actually a challenging organization to get into


Genuine laugh out loud.

Richard Masterson
Virulence.
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.08.02 18:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Rells

More and more pilots these days tend to be "risk averse". The preponderance of players in Eve are very cautious with their ships and will only engage when the force is massively overwhelming.

........

For example, they will assert that we have the same numbers of people in the system, as if 10 cruisers or below is a fair fight with 3 carriers and other ships. Naturally those fights we decline and we chose the right time and conditions to engage them.

........

I push AGONY pilots to be very aggressive but to chose their battles.

.......

If they can warp in and blow up an assault frig at the cost of three tech 1 frigs, why not?


Rells, just wanted to point this out: You are preaching, "Fight smarter, not harder," but are teaching, "If you die, it's O.K. as long as you did more damage than the enemy." This is a conflict of interest. Yes, AGONY fly an assortment of T1 ships, but not always. Are you telling me that when your pilots fly T2 they have the same devil-may-care attitude?

The point you're missing: Many people don't view the loss of their ship as a ratio of damage inflicted to damage taken. They simply view it as, "I'm in a pod and I have to go get a new ship now." Truly fighting smarter, not harder means that you inflict losses on the enemy while suffering none yourself! This is why most people desire to fly T2 e-peens; their chance of survival is much higher.

Thus, when someone cries, "Nerf!" it is usually because the game has been unbalanced in a way (or at least been perceived to be unbalanced), that increases that individual's chances of dying, or of not killing the enemy. It's not, "Well, we can only kill 3 of their ships, to 4 of ours lost."

Now, some nerfs I agree with, and others I swore I'd quit the game over.

I've adapted.

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 18:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: Rells
I push AGONY pilots to be very aggressive but to chose their battles. If they can warp in and blow up an assault frig at the cost of three tech 1 frigs, why not?

Generally? Because if I get podded, that's 40m (minimum) and probably closer to 150m, if not in the billions, of implants down the drain. That's why my carrier pilot never flies anything smaller than a well-tanked battleship anymore. As much as I love implants, they discourage the "throwaway ship" tactics; undocking in a 500k isk suicide frigate with a 1b isk clone is patently stupid. Perhaps that's a good thing, but the point is, it's something you have to consider before universally mocking people for not engaging in suicide tactics.

--P


It isnt a suicide tactic. People get killed in the fight but that isnt their goal. And getting a POD out unless you are in a bubble is quite easy. Fortunately because every time I get podded I have to redo all my settings. Perhaps you should fly with fewer implants in or get a jump clone. This "risk adversity" of yours is of your own making, not CCPs. Rells routinely flys with two +4 implants for what I am training and if I get podded I just let the skill finish and no big deal. You can have your snakes and +5s and so on but if ou never do anything than sit in a carrier hoping someone will be stupid enough to agress you and warping out whenever someone shows up with more force then you would lead a boring life by our standards.

You misunderstand. If I warp in ten frigates, each with a 4.6m isk clone (which means they have fewer than 42m SP, so these guys aren't exactly uber), even without implants, if I lose three of them to take down an assault frigate, I'm out 13.2m in uninsured isk, plus the cost of my fittings. By the time I put two +3's apiece in their heads, we've spent over 60m isk to take out a T2 frigate.

Relying on the enemy not having 'dictors for your pod might work in your neck of the woods, but where I deploy, in the heart of supercapital country, it's a good day if the enemy has fewer than six on the field. More power to you for being willing to shrug off 40m isk for two +4's and a clone fee to take out a T2 frig, but I'm worried that you're being a little shortsighted in doing so.

--P

Peri Helion
Amarr
Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
I don't think the whining is really doing that much. I mean look at all the whining about industrial things that never get touched. It might SEEM like it, but it could just as easily be that CCP thinks so too...


Cant compare PvP changes and Industrial changes. Oveur has stated that EvE is a PvP game, nothing more and nothing less. So industrial whinage gets no attention due to the fact it isnt PvP (look at how long it took to get the silo bonuses on towers fixed, and everyone agreed it was an issue and nobody thought it shouldnt be fixed so it wasnt even controversial)

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
New content will always need to be "balanced", that is a given (in spite of all the complaints that they nerfed "their" profits, etc). Also every module needs to be re-evaluated when new content comes out because they easily alter subtle balances. We absolutely don't want CCP to do like the Shadowrun or Mech Warrior PnP games did where every single update made everything else obsolete.

So I support the post, in most ways, and agree with the sentiments behind it. I don't see the situation quite as dire though


But how is NOS new? Or what gameplay change was made that qualified as requiring a new analysis/balancing of it? Also, if Nos was so overpowered why didnt everyone fly nos domi? Why are there so many nano-setup ships if nos is the I WIN button? Most telling of all, why has it taken 4 years for CCP to correct this horrible game breaking imbalance?

Simple; it has nothing to do with game balance. It has everything to do with appearing to care and listen to the customers and throw them a bone. Rather than having the courage to stick with their game mechanic in the face of whinage, they capitulate in a policy of appeasement.




 

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