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blankseplocked Tired of desyncs? (not lag!). CCP logs show no loss?
 
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:42:00 - [211]
 

Thank you for posting, please send your stuff care of the heimatar services conglomerate, it will all go to the good cause of training new players not to whine like little babies who don't like hard candy and demand chocolate.

ET pwnedhome
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:44:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz
all I have seen in this thread is wrangler has tried to remain as courteous as possible even though I would imagine he is livid with the spoiled child throwing the rattle out the pram attitude that so many people are throwing around in this thread.

Arguing your point with the community manager is a particularly stupid and fruitless endeavor be thankful he has enough restraint not to bring the banhammer and go on a rampage.

Most people complaining in this thread are looking for someone to blame they're getting answers and just casting them aside and continuing on their long humorless ranting. Honest to God be thankful your getting any kind of response never mind its not the one you want to hear. Writing a post saying "I AM LEAVING" is pathetically insignificant considering for probably every single person who leaves and writes a thread whining about something, there is 10 or even 100 new subscribers to take your place. Take solace in the fact CCP is acknowledging you in any form.

I have experience desyncs in fleet fights and lost ships to it, unless you're flying faction fitted faction bs with HG pirate implants into battle, just get your head down and work to replace the loss, *****ing and crying about isn't going to get you your stuff back

/end rant (replying to this is equally pointless I probably wont read this thread before it falls off the face of the forums, the sooner the better)



You don't understand, do you? this "there is 10 or even 100 new subscribers to take your place" whilst an act of disturbing identity swapping - will KILL eve as the quality players vanish and the endgame dies. Sure, CCP may remain solvent with all that churn, but EvE, a game made as much by those who play it, will be long dead, and I don't think you are able to comprehend this subtle yet overwhelmingly important point.

Just look at WoW and juxtapose, would you dare say eve was alive and kicking if we had 8 million players in empire, all mission running and /dance with epic modules?

Never use the increasing playerbase retort, we all know it's the result of eve spammage on heaps of websites of late and nothing to do with improvements in the game.

My last point is that eve took a wrong turn with PoS warfare, it's slowly dawming on more and more people that it's pretty absurd and in the long run insanely repetative.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:45:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
Here is proof that the MC mothership was desync'ed. (Check out the range of the target that the Mothership has locked)

Will CCP be reimbursing MC for their loss????




No, they wont.

Besides, This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.

Sean Dillon
Caldari
Surreal corp
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:45:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Which shows you only care about the buck and not about your absolutely crappy services lately.

Hurm Turvan
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:46:00 - [215]
 

Wow, how old are you people? Are you getting your feelings hurt because you feel unloved by the people that produce your favorite game?

What does it matter if ďthey care aboutĒ veteran players or not?

You join the most market-oriented, cut-throat unforgiving MMO, and then act like CCP caring about the bottom line is some betrayal of its long-time customers?

The OP was trying to get everyone to cancel their subscriptions until a problem he cares about is fixed. That was intended to the threatening, and makes the assumption that CCP is doing less than it could to fix the problem because it is so confident in its income stream.

While the OP didnít say it, Nightbird stated something factually untrue which Wrangler corrected. You children took his tone as evidence that you are unloved, unappreciated, and taken for granted. All he said was you were wrong.

The way he said it may have had something to do with the intended insults thrown at CCP throughout this that they are somehow bad people because they are striving to produce a financially successful game. Bravo Wrangler.

Why do you look for love from developers? Do you need your pizza delivery guy to prove his affection for you too? Do your feelings get hurt when he makes a mistake with your toppings?

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.08.02 16:47:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz
all I have seen in this thread is wrangler has tried to remain as courteous as possible even though I would imagine he is livid with the spoiled child throwing the rattle out the pram attitude that so many people are throwing around in this thread.



Honestly I could not think of a worst response Wrangler could have had to that original post than the one he did.

I'm not part of the ass kissing school of customer relations, but to people who are getting rather annoyed with how the game has been performing the LAST thing you want to say is that subscriber numbers are up. There are things the devs have done that I didn't agree with but this is the first time I saw a dev post and thought that perhaps CCP isn't the company I thought it was.

Not to compare apples to oranges, but DAOC was a bigger game than EvE and seemed to have everything going for it. At some point their focus shifted from 'great game' to 'great game to make money off of'. A great game will make money, but great game to make money off of will make more money in the short term and then die. While the errors I think they may be making are not all the same kind of errors that killed DAOC, the feeling on how they are developing the game seems very similar. Instead of a 'how do we make the game better' it seems to be 'how do we keep the greatest number of people happy for the time being and what can we do to get more press'.

I really hope I'm wrong, I like EvE better than any MMO I've played and I'm old enough to have played them from day one, but if EvE really does have a 10 year plan I hope that plan is 'How do we make a game someone would want to play for 10 years' instead of 'How do we make a game that can keep 300k subscribers for 10 years'. The difference is subtle but obvious to anyone who has seen MMO development from the first muds and mushes to this.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:03:00 - [217]
 

It's all so funny

my job is customer service, and if the customer is throwing a tantrum they get what for, and oddly they still come back, because once they cool off, they realise how childish they are and that they deserved a verbal spanking.LaughingRolling Eyes But gamers refuse to act like adults far too after, its their way or the highway

(and for the record, I still have a job! my manager not only approves of my actions, she gave me a raise, no one, individual or company, has to put up with the sh** of a tantruming consumer wh***, the customer ISN'T always right)

Hurm Turvan
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:11:00 - [218]
 

Iím no fanboy, nor am I a programmer etc. but you folks seem to be reading too much into the devís actions.

The accusations in this discussion seem to be:

1. CCP had it in its power to avoid the desync bug, but didnít care enough to do it.

2. Wrangler proved just how heartless CCP is by contradicting a false statement in a flippant tone.

3. Somehow being a ďgreat gameĒ and a financially successful game are at odds.

4. Since CCP has a collective character flaw that allowed the desync bug to slip on to TQ, the only proper course of action is to immediately honor any and all petitions that mention the problem.

5. There is some objective way of evaluating the greatness of a game and the purity-of-heart of its developers that is unrelated to subscription numbers, people on-line etc and CCP is failing.

6. CCP is riding out its former success and cashing in, evidenced by the fact that some of the new stuff they made screwed up the old stuff.

If all of these were true, what would the game look like? If none of them were, how different would the devís action be from what they have been?

Have you stopped beating you wife?

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:16:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: AnarchistUK

Freedom of speech!



Laughing

ET pwnedhome
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:31:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: ET pwnedhome on 02/08/2007 17:31:29
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
It's all so funny

my job is customer service, and if the customer is throwing a tantrum they get what for, and oddly they still come back, because once they cool off, they realise how childish they are and that they deserved a verbal spanking.LaughingRolling Eyes But gamers refuse to act like adults far too after, its their way or the highway

(and for the record, I still have a job! my manager not only approves of my actions, she gave me a raise, no one, individual or company, has to put up with the sh** of a tantruming consumer wh***, the customer ISN'T always right)



The last time I phoned up customer service to whine I got a free set top box that could record TV programs and stuff. I don't actually use it however (because I keep forgetting to) but I had to know the company (virgin media) actually gave a damn about me, and how they responed to me whining (a very thoughtful and polite whine, ofc) encouraged me to stay. They proved to me "yes, we give a damn about you and your long term commitment to us". Made me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Nothing to do with where I put the set top box, I assure you.

In the case of Eve, people whining because their ships got blown up thanks to lag or the mother-of-grendel aka desynch, have every right to, as long as they are polite and lay out their concerns politely. The comment made by the CCP employee at the start of this thread is just shocking however.... Why? Because suddenly people who have been with CCP for years and breathed life into the virtual galaxy they host, get the impression that a the churn of random players are more important than what they have done, what they have built. I simply can't belive that in a game which struggles to keep up with the technical demands of necassary gameplay tactics, increasing player numbers was used to dismiss an arguement. The shark has officially jumped, or something.






Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:45:00 - [221]
 

I agree completely, in that if the customer is going to behave like an adult they will often get treated with even mroe courtesy than they need/require

however petetioning for the loss of something that exists in pixels is petty, and whining when you don't get it is BEYOND petty

ET pwnedhome
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:45:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Hurm Turvan
Iím no fanboy, nor am I a programmer etc. but you folks seem to be reading too much into the devís actions.

The accusations in this discussion seem to be:

1. CCP had it in its power to avoid the desync bug, but didnít care enough to do it.

2. Wrangler proved just how heartless CCP is by contradicting a false statement in a flippant tone.

3. Somehow being a ďgreat gameĒ and a financially successful game are at odds.

4. Since CCP has a collective character flaw that allowed the desync bug to slip on to TQ, the only proper course of action is to immediately honor any and all petitions that mention the problem.

5. There is some objective way of evaluating the greatness of a game and the purity-of-heart of its developers that is unrelated to subscription numbers, people on-line etc and CCP is failing.

6. CCP is riding out its former success and cashing in, evidenced by the fact that some of the new stuff they made screwed up the old stuff.

If all of these were true, what would the game look like? If none of them were, how different would the devís action be from what they have been?

Have you stopped beating you wife?




1) I believe CCP are doing everything they can to iron out that bug. Their mini-patch recently was worked great according to some mates.

2) was his statement flippant? does it reflect a deeper sentiment in CCP? we can't know for sure.

3) Nobody would say that, but in the mmo market it's pretty clear some games are just addiction machines designed to milk people of money. Been there, and wised up.

4) The bug is nothing to do with the people of CCP, they are not trying to break their own game. But broke it is so hey, lets keep those end game customers happy till we can fix it.

5) uhm don't understand, sozzle.

6) they did flaunt 4 year old awards on their website, the press release section is all very old '03/4 stuff, not really relevant anymore. Thier current round of adverts seem to be everywhere, lots of 5 day reactiveation trials, etc. The new content for me has been like adding random squares to a chess board and a piece that occupies 4 squares at once. it's just not chess anymore.


ET pwnedhome
Posted - 2007.08.02 17:54:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: ET pwnedhome on 02/08/2007 17:56:15
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
I agree completely, in that if the customer is going to behave like an adult they will often get treated with even mroe courtesy than they need/require

however petetioning for the loss of something that exists in pixels is petty, and whining when you don't get it is BEYOND petty



Pixels are not real? That's just like saying money is only paper, or that it doesn't even exist beyond our belief it has value which if you realise money is created out of thin air, on a simple promise to repay it...yeah money can start to seem far removed from the actual value of anything.

The fact is those pixels do exist, in isk as the currency of time, as a manifestation of the effort people put in and also as pieces on the game board; to think otherwise is absurd, how can they not exist? let's not get ontological about this, i'm really not up to it Razz. I'll agree there is a limit to how seriously you can take it, but as i've not yet threatened to kill anyone in RL, sue CCP or otherwise nuke Iceland, I don't think that limit has been reached.

I have however bought 120k firealarms in preparation for the latter.

Farham
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.02 18:17:00 - [224]
 

Quote:
That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Sure, if you are proud of Chinese ISK farmers pushing your numbers up.

That doesn't mean the desync issue isn't going to ultimately kill your game very quickly if it isn't resolved.


Jim McGregor
Posted - 2007.08.02 18:37:00 - [225]
 


CCP makes a game. Play it if you want too.

Complicated?

Zepher8062
Angels Of Divine Fury
Second Sun Rising
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:19:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor

CCP makes a game. Play it if you want too.

Complicated?



I give you props! this is the shortest, most down to Earth, comment that I have read on this thread. Unfortunately, the people who have had their share of whining in this thread don't think they want to stop.

I refer back to my metaphor In my previous Post:

To keep complaining in these threads is childish. You are the kid Wal-Mart who you hear screaming for a new toy in the Toy department. Then the Mother says no and the little whiners, I mean kid, screams even louder.

If you come into the Gym and **** and moan to me for hours on end while I am on the treadmill and Keep asking when I am not going to be fat anymore, Id be in the same Position as Wrangler to make comments as he did. Grow the hell up people. Its a frickin game. If you don't want to play, leave and play WOW or some crap. And don't say.."Ohh If i leave then CCP will be one less Subscriber.." BIG FRICKEN DEAL I'm sure a lot of us would be glad to see the door hit you on the way out Just so us people who like the game can get on the forums to look at some Blueprints and not run into one of you moaning.

Stop wasting your time spamming on the forums about how things should be better. Get on a plane, fly to Iceland, and fix it yourself. Until then..SHUT UP...PLEASE

ET pwnedhome
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:21:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Zepher8062
Originally by: Jim McGregor

CCP makes a game. Play it if you want too.

Complicated?



I give you props! this is the shortest, most down to Earth, comment that I have read on this thread. Unfortunately, the people who have had their share of whining in this thread don't think they want to stop.

I refer back to my metaphor In my previous Post:

To keep complaining in these threads is childish. You are the kid Wal-Mart who you hear screaming for a new toy in the Toy department. Then the Mother says no and the little whiners, I mean kid, screams even louder.

If you come into the Gym and **** and moan to me for hours on end while I am on the treadmill and Keep asking when I am not going to be fat anymore, Id be in the same Position as Wrangler to make comments as he did. Grow the hell up people. Its a frickin game. If you don't want to play, leave and play WOW or some crap. And don't say.."Ohh If i leave then CCP will be one less Subscriber.." BIG FRICKEN DEAL I'm sure a lot of us would be glad to see the door hit you on the way out Just so us people who like the game can get on the forums to look at some Blueprints and not run into one of you moaning.

Stop wasting your time spamming on the forums about how things should be better. Get on a plane, fly to Iceland, and fix it yourself. Until then..SHUT UP...PLEASE



a post about as constructive as hitting a brick with a hammer.

Zepher8062
Angels Of Divine Fury
Second Sun Rising
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:27:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: Zepher8062 on 02/08/2007 19:27:30
Originally by: ET pwnedhome
Originally by: Zepher8062
Originally by: Jim McGregor

CCP makes a game. Play it if you want too.

Complicated?



I give you...
....EASE



a post about as constructive as hitting a brick with a hammer.


How big of a hammer? Like a Nail hammer or a sledge hammer or a nut hammer...
Hey we're all from different places here Laughing

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:33:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...



Thats great. Glad to hear that.

now whats being done to fix the desyncs and when can we expect it to be fixed? Thats all anyone really wants to know.

Saladin
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:40:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


You really think this is the way to address your customer base? People may open new accounts when they have faith that CCP will eventually fix an EvE-wide issue such as this. But then posts like yours demonstrate that this faith is misplaced.

Mallikan
Gallente
Mercury Syndicate
Twilight Federation
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:53:00 - [231]
 

Very Happy I just realized the reason why I've come to love this post so much! See, if you're not lying, and you actually do leave, then YAY! The more of you childish noobs that think that desynch is something that CCP can figure out and fix with a flip of the "make the customers happy" switch, the better! This means less of the very same noobs that cry about lag and how CCP should fix lag (something caused by current tech limitations, not CCP). Also, most of the same noobs that pilot the FOTM ships and cry when they get nerfed.

Wow! My day just got 100 times better. By all means, if you think anything like AnarchistUK (the OP if you've forgotten), set a long skill and leave EVE. We'll be here when you come back from whatever crappy grindfest you decide to play. Twisted Evil

dr shark
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.08.02 19:57:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: dr shark on 02/08/2007 20:03:07
Edited by: dr shark on 02/08/2007 20:00:48

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Yeah, your right as YOU WERE RIGHT with

"EVE ment to be dark and harsh world"....ofc, thanks to your constant game "improvements" and closing one eye on those little annoying bugsRolling Eyes

If you are part of my corp, im sure i argued with you and calling you namesRazz


AND...PPL are leaving have nothing to do with current increase of new ppl
Neutral

Thank you for explaining me , with your post, why we cant hope for these fixes ppl asking about


get a life, and leave PR for somebody else

The Mantra
Caldari
Knights of Sovereignty
United Corporations of Eve
Posted - 2007.08.02 20:03:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Herculite
Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz
all I have seen in this thread is wrangler has tried to remain as courteous as possible even though I would imagine he is livid with the spoiled child throwing the rattle out the pram attitude that so many people are throwing around in this thread.



Honestly I could not think of a worst response Wrangler could have had to that original post than the one he did.




As far as I was aware, Wrangler was NOT responding to the orginal post.

Which is where many people seem to have made a mistake here. If he was referring to the OP it would have been an awful reply. but he wasn't :)

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2007.08.02 20:08:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


I think I found the reason why it's getting so laggy!

Yo, New people, go away!

:D

K'reemy G'udness
Posted - 2007.08.02 21:03:00 - [235]
 

This thread has taught me 3 things:

1. CCP is unable to properly QA their own product; they require the users to do their work for them.
(Of course, the users write most of the documentation, in the form of guides, so no surprises here.)

2. CCP doesn't care how many people quit the game because of quality issues, because, hey the subscription numbers keep going up.

3. A wether is a castrated sheep.

Did I miss anything?

Anyway, setting a long skill training, see you in a few months.

Treelox
Posted - 2007.08.02 22:28:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor

CCP makes a game. Play it if you want too.

Complicated?



Not complicated at all

So id like to formally annouce my desire to play the game that CCP made about 8-10months ago, and not the bovine scatology that CCP has called release for the last few months.

Simon Barrow
Durgarnir
Posted - 2007.08.02 22:35:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Ggrimreaper
i appreciate you need help finding desync cause, but you can't exactly run the logserver whilst waiting for a 200 man gang to jump in on you, as you need as much bandwidth as poss to reduce Lag..

were in a catch 22 situation with this..

run the logserver program and you increase Lag
don't run it you can't fix the issues...


How bout biting the bullet and handling the increased personal lag for a while until this issue is fixed? Or at least shut up if you dont want to help solve the issue.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2007.08.02 22:38:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Hi Wrangler
Since your checking numbers, and showing growth in the company.. Could you check the numbers on old accounts rolling out, vs new accoutns rolling in..

I have no doubt that the userbase is growing in numbers, but what I do wonder about is if the growth of new members is allowing us to skip the fact that older members have quit playing..

Regards
Deo

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.08.02 23:35:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Simple fact: Your like a dealer - you have addict players who cant bear to waste all their skill trainign so far - and have friends in game they dont want to leave.

You game is badly bugged but still playable - and very fun when everything works ok.

As long as you keep it half playable - the addicts will play it.

Please dont crow about subscription numbers and more people playing - its unbecoming.

SKUNK

Nicho Void
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.08.03 01:01:00 - [240]
 

Dear CCP, I demand a pony, a GI Joe, and a magical fix to desyncs. I have no database, game design, or even life experience of any kind, but I play video games and think you should fix it. It's not good enough that you've already put out multiple patches in an attempt to fix it...because those patches cause downtime in which I am forced to lead a regular human existence. This is unacceptable.

I'm calling my mother and telling her to cancel my subscription.


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