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blankseplocked Tired of desyncs? (not lag!). CCP logs show no loss?
 
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Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:13:00 - [121]
 

/signed

We are paying your salaries CCP. Get your **** together and quit selling a faulty product.

Mallikan
Gallente
Mercury Syndicate
Twilight Federation
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:28:00 - [122]
 

Kudos to Wrangler for giving good response in the thread.

Next, how many of you morons know ANYTHING about running a massive, single-sharded game? Yelling at CCP and making threats to fix something like desync is like yelling at scientists to figure out a cure for cancer and NOW! Since some of you appear to be ****ing geniuses on the matter, how about you fix it? Oh that's right, you're paying customers. So every car you've bought has been an experience in perfection? Or are you starting threads in the car forums? If you'd read the EVE news and the Issues threads you'd know that CCP is working on the issue.

I'm sorry I ever stumbled into this rotten thread. Evil or Very Mad

HostageTaker
Gallente
Band of Freelancers
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:38:00 - [123]
 

*snip* Please don't launch into personal attacks -Eldo

Fader Bane
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:44:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: AnarchistUK

Thank you for correcting this. Now sign this thread Cool


I'm not going to sign this thread. Based purely on the fact that Whining about desync's(which have been around forever, and were always treated as lag) and lag is not going to solve the problem.
....

Note: I have no qualifications in this field, and derived this, from what little knowledge I have on the subject, and some damned common sense. Flame away if you so desire.


actually desyncs seem to be a new thing or at least happen much more frequently now. if one looks back at when people started complaining about dsyncs in such large numbesr, one can see that it coincides with the release of revelations 2.

Vyyrus
An Eye For An Eye
Rule of Three
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:10:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Vyyrus on 02/08/2007 03:13:28
Edited by: Vyyrus on 02/08/2007 03:10:15
The whole priority thing is bs. I filed a petition for harrassment, one gm came and said that it was being investigated so I replied a second gm came and said the exact same thing and closed the petition without a response to why. So its obvious that the petitions are being handled if they give a....

Aldir Rundal
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:29:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Fader Bane
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: AnarchistUK

Thank you for correcting this. Now sign this thread Cool


I'm not going to sign this thread. Based purely on the fact that Whining about desync's(which have been around forever, and were always treated as lag) and lag is not going to solve the problem.
....

Note: I have no qualifications in this field, and derived this, from what little knowledge I have on the subject, and some damned common sense. Flame away if you so desire.


actually desyncs seem to be a new thing or at least happen much more frequently now. if one looks back at when people started complaining about dsyncs in such large numbesr, one can see that it coincides with the release of revelations 2.


That's the thing, they're not new at all, and have always been a part of eve. Their frequency and magnitude have increased since revelations 2, and I'm suprised it didn't happen earlier.

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:33:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...



Way to shift focus and not actually address the issue itself!

Edit your sig:
Wrangler
Community Spindoctor
EVE Online

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:43:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Price Watcher
Another bend-over-and-spread-'em fanboy heard from.



Only thing worse than a spineless alt posting is a spineless alt posting with poor reading comprehension skills.


Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:57:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Herculite
Originally by: Price Watcher
Another bend-over-and-spread-'em fanboy heard from.



Only thing worse than a spineless alt posting is a spineless alt posting with poor reading comprehension skills.




you owe me another mountain dew, that was the funniest thing i read all day Laughing

BoB is welcoem to come and hang out in heimatar when they want to just chill Laughing

sparkvolt
Praetorian BlackGuard
Posted - 2007.08.02 04:00:00 - [130]
 

You put a frog into boiling water it will (try to) jump right out.
You put a frog into cold water and slowly heat it up, it will stay in it and boil to death.

This is what I would say about old players and new players. Old players got used to the lag, game problems. People have been fighting before and people fight even now. The example above simply states that veterans took it for granted that they have to suffer with game performance and simply came to terms with the truth.

New players have very little experience with fleet battles. New players and new subscribers won't even see battle for months. Most they will see is small gate camps or pirates but that will not inflict enough frustration on them aside from feeling of loss due to their lost assets, or feeling of euphoria when they pop someone for the first time. Before they know it, they are hooked on PvP. They seek PvP to test their skills against other, more skilled, enemies. They find 0.0 based corp/alliance, they join up expecting a whole lot of pew pew and fleet battles. What happens? They get obliterated because their game for the first time ever completely went haywire. No enemies on the screen nothing to shoot, yet their ship is going down fast, something is killing it. Some phantom. Activate their tank mods, nothing. Try to warp, nothing. They meet their first REAL enemy. Desync.

But by this point they are already addicted. They invested time, they invested money. They can't just cancel now and walk away. After all they spent days and months training those skills to be effective. So they endure. They endure what no player should be made to endure. They start to optimize their own clients by turning off all cool effects, minimizing chat windows, closing overview, removing items from overview, turning off sound, they dull their game to a point where they're playing a modern age game with settings that even a Starcraft would put to shame.

In other words, they are doing everything in their power just to be able to participate in this thing called fleet battle. A feature very proudly advertised by game company. Game itself is engineered in such a way to require fleet battles. With number of new capital pilots every day it is only a matter of time before smaller ships are part of the history.

Yet, still exist those who are so inept, so ignorant, that they claim game is fine as it is. It is fine. It is fine if you don't mind sitting in station. It is fine if you are one of those who sits at trade hub and manipulates market. But for those out there that are fighting for a piece of space to call home, it is unacceptable.

What is even more unacceptable is the fact that company developing the game, or employees of such at least, treat their customers like robots that carry huge dollar sign on their forehead. Petitions are disregarded in such a quick manner and with simple reason: "Our logs do not show...". Perhaps your logs are not thorough enough? Perhaps your logs are configured in such a way to only log "certain" things.

When 100-200 people simply drop out of system, when your server has "lingering" sockets open, when requests for warp or mod activation from same client are hammered to server multiple times, that doesn't put ,not even an entry, into server log?

I find it hard to believe as I would find it near impossible to find "abusing" clients if server didn't log such things. It opens doors to many bigger problems and meta-gaming.

<sarcasm>
But then again, it is only a whine from yet another Sparta member. After all, fleet battle gurus out there say everything is fine. So we should be inclined to trust.
</sarcasm>

Some people are so far up Wrangler's ass, I cannot tell where they end and where he begins.
</walloftext>

Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 04:07:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Montague Zooma on 02/08/2007 06:07:10
This emphasis on subscription numbers is significant. I've had an epiphany.

Eve will always be broken. The key to CCP's business plan must be the notion that MMO players only stick with a game for about 7 months to a year. So all they have to do is make Eve play well enough to keep a player paying for about a year before quitting in disgust.

Adding new features to the game keeps it "interesting". If the features actually work, that's an added bonus. The new features constantly in development aren't really for our benefit...they're designed to snag new customers to replace us as we quit.

WoW has what...8 million subscribers? That makes for a lot of MMO players who are getting tired of their current game and want to try something new. Eve is different enough from every other MMO out there that it's virtually guaranteed attract the attention of players looking for a new kind of thrill.

CCP is banking on customer turnover. Their goal isn't to be the ultimate destination of gaming...just to entertain players for a year or so until they find something better. Thanks to the steady stream of refugees from the more successful MMOs, they'll see their subscription numbers grow at a healthy pace for years to come.

Eve promises an awful lot. But its success doesn't depend on actually delivering on that promise.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2007.08.02 04:31:00 - [132]
 

Wow, Wangler should not have given that kind of response here. Way to **** people off.

I strongly suggest people who are so worked up about this desynch issue simply cancel your subscriptions and stop whining. Are you addicted to the point that you NEED eve so bad, but yet hate it so much that you can get worked into a frenzy and not leave?

Just put a long skill train and quit for a while.

That's what the OP says to do. I don't know why so much ranting. Just do it. If your alliance all has the same opinion, let them do it too.

It hasn't affected me so I'm not going to. But I would, and I'm frequently close to doing so anyway.

Bein Glorious
SAKUMA DROP
ANAHEIM ELECTRONICS Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:02:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
non jewish


non-semetic

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:11:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Price Watcher
Right now CCP has no real competition in space combat simulators.

You have grown fat and lazy.

Well, everyone knows what happens when the lean and hungry come upon the fat and lazy.

A barbeque! Laughing

Some day you will have competition. It will be lean and hungry....

oh yes having 6 teams work on content and realeasing a patch every month while working on the biggest bug in the game while doing so much other stuff is lazy.

I work in the game field. it takes years to build a single game. it takes months to fix bugs a bloated code or epicness like EvE.
thwy are working on it. jezz.

eve isn't dying it's getting more popualr. and after you all leave and a patch is released that fixes dysync in 2 months I will luah because 2 months to fix a bug where instead of helping people whine is an amazing accomplishment.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Russell Simmons
Is Eve dying for another reason?
No, EVE is not dying at all. Be nice, it's 2 am...


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:16:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Harleigh
WOW .. so stumped for an answer you have to pick on a spelling mistake and use a cut and paste GM response ..

Then we wonder why there are code bugs ..
Well, it was a funny spelling mistake, I saw one Oveur made a while that was better, he spelled whether wether, which means castrated male sheep.

It's not a cut and paste GM response, we have different queues with different levels of priority, the senior GM queue is one of those, and once a petition is escalated to that queue it gets dealt with in the order it arrived, and obviously it can take more time to investigate some issues than others. That's explaining how the queue works.


the problem is they think your GPDS and can answer everyones questions at the same time!

have any oif you ever sat in line at a bank?
some people just cash a check, BAM, next.
some people start counting pennies out.

it's the same **** thing...

EFF ONEF1
Seek N Destory
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:20:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: AnarchistUK
Edited by: AnarchistUK on 02/08/2007 01:15:34
This game is borderline screwed. With so many ships, pods, implants being lost due to desyncs (not talking about normal lag here) since Rev 2. Patches have been released to address the desyncs (so CCP admit there are issues), only for their logs to show nothing when you lose your beloved ship. They give you the copy and paste treatment in petitions? Fine! I've set a long skill on both accounts and payments stopped. They want to fob us off with copy and paste? Then they don't get our money.

This is the only way for CCP to acknowledge, we don't want new shiney stuff, we want the damn game fixed and reimburse for THEIR server issues!!!

Set a long skill, end the payments, sign the forum. They can't ban us all!!!

*** EDIT *** This is PURELY about game mechanics, nothing to do with ANY alliance or war. This is about ALL OF US who've been given the same lack of support.

CCP - Don't gag my chars please. I did not swear at all!!!!!!!!! They gagged me because I pasted this link in Jita lol.

You have been gagged by GM Faolchu until 2007.08.02 01:36:09. GM Faolchu's reason was: Swearing in Public Chat Channels.

Freedom of speech!

*** Note **** On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.

desync example = you're at a gate, hit warp, client screen stays at the gate, but the server has warped you off.

lag example = you see the gate, but when hostiles jump in, you see nothing for 5 minutes.


You will be hard pressed to find a game that will have logs during a desync or server crash. As those logs disappear due to those issues.

Some games during those times will give a benefit of the doubt(BOD) reimbursement in some cases. And in almost all games that is up to their discretion. As BOD reimbursements can quickly get way out of control to the point that their resources are tied up giving out things they had no clue existed or happened in the first place. And all of that then has the secondary effect of greatly increasing the times it takes to respond (it is already a bit high ill give you that) to newer petitions that potentially could get solved a whole lot quicker.

Please note that reimbursements are NOT what you pay CCP for. You pay them for access to the game, thats it. It is entirely their goodwill that they do so, any game for that matter.

If youdo not like the way the game currently is, or disagree with the direction the game is going, by all means leave. That is your right as a consumer. However, it is NOT your right to impose on CCP what you want. Or even demanding they do it or you will leave. Its their game, if you dont like it, dont support it. But dont continue to pay and play then complain you dont like it. Thats just idiocy to continue to pay for something that does not satisfy you.

CCP has already acknowledge desyncs and server stability issues. In fact, the past patch addressed some of the issues and the next one is supposed to have a hardware upgrade to address some of those specific issues. So they are trying, and rather more quickly than any other MMO company out there is doing. Its the internaet, desyncs and lag happens in all games, its the reality of current technology. Either learn to live with it, or go create the solution yourself.

Case in point:

I happen to not like the automobiles FORD makes. However, I dont buy one of their automobiles, stand outside the dealership with a sign telling people they suck, then follow the next people who show up to buy inside and buy one myself.


CCP Wrangler, you are spot on. Dont let these people push you and CCP around.




MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:22:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
How did you fail at reporting bugs?

That's really arrogant and cold towards a paying customer.

Bug reporting is clumsy, stupid, and more trouble than a paying customer should have to put up with.

Perhaps you don't remember who really pays you. It's the paying customer.

Learn it, love it, live it.



I love the new bug report system, it gets you fast answers. terrific program. there are a lot of thingabout eve I don't like, like the petition system. but the bug reporting page is not one of them.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:30:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
non jewish


non-semetic


Nope. Non-Semetic and Gentile are different.

Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:42:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Ridley Tree on 02/08/2007 05:45:11
Originally by: EFF ONEF1
-sniped for length

CCP Wrangler, you are spot on. Dont let these people push you and CCP around.


And their customer service, given that CCP has acknowledged massive desyncs and given that CCP knows there are severe server issues, should err on the side of 'our logs don't show...' rather than 'Sorry about that. This is a known issue. Here's your ship back.'?

I'm sorry but if there is a known severe issue the Customer Service should not be saying 'oh, no logs. **** you, go away.' They should be apologizing out the ass and groveling as they give you your lost **** back.

Hey what do I know. I've never been a CSR. I've never delt with angry customers. I've never been a CSR supervisor. I never helped write the customer retention program for a company.

Oh wait, I have. Rolling Eyes

CCP makes a great game. Their creativity is amazing. I'm shelling out for two accounts. But to be painfully honest, CCP's customer service has to be one of the worst I've ever seen. Copy and pasted generic answers to almost every petition. Inconsistency is apparently rampant but we can't be sure because hey, CCP restricts you from quoting their customer service on the board. People keep playing this game despite of their Customer Service, not because of it.

Bein Glorious
SAKUMA DROP
ANAHEIM ELECTRONICS Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:45:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
non jewish


non-semetic


Nope. Non-Semetic and Gentile are different.


he still didn't hyphenate it

Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
Posted - 2007.08.02 05:53:00 - [141]
 

Nice answers Wrangler.
As for the OP: CCP has always said, desynch is a problem. But apparently you dont like to be constructive and rather whine on the forum.
If you dont like the game, quit for a while and see if they fixed the "problems" after a year. I agree fleet fights are broken and desynch is bad, but its not the truth that CCP doesnt care about it just because there IS this bug. They just cant fix it atm.

I personally had the best week in EVE since i started 15 months ago (and didnt suffer desynch btw).

Do the stuff in EVE thats not broken and leave the rest behind. Im doing fun stuff atm and only some (needed) boring stuff.

If EVE dies, be happy. There will be another, better spaceship MMO (without stackless python(?)).

Maybe im just less emotional about a game than other people?

Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
Posted - 2007.08.02 06:36:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...


It's too much work to hang onto the players that have been here 4+ years, as they are more demanding. I mean, why should CCP care? I pay the same ammount per month as the players who come & go every 6 to 12 months. How is a monthly sub from a 4 year vet like myself any better than from those 6 month turn-around players? News flash, it's not!

CCP will take the money any way they can get it... For every disgruntled long term vet that leaves the game, 5 bright eyed newbs are paying CCP a monthly sub for 6 months, who cares if they don't retain them, as long as they keep gaining subs, the accountants at CCP are happy, hence the comapny is happy. Screw the players who were the initial group who got CCP where they are today, we mean nothing to them, as we b!tch too much about the game flaws...


I hope this isn't the case, but I'm actually starting to wonder....

Sin Meng
Gallente
Creative Assembly
Posted - 2007.08.02 07:27:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: AnarchistUK
original post


EVE is uncharted territory. There is no manual or textbook example of this kind of game to refer to when **** doesn't work because it is the first of its kind, at least to this degree. It is therefore a never ending work in progress. Don't act like its supposed to be anywhere near perfect. Its your money, you're in control of what you spend it on, you have no one else to blame if you believe it is / has been poorly spent but yourself. If you don't like the product you're paying for, don't pay for it anymore, simple as that.

CCP is a company run by human beings who are quite capable of making mistakes, having poor judgment, and occasionally (wrangler) letting their tact slip. Did you read anywhere in the description of this game or the EULA that by paying the monthly subscription fee for this game that you are guaranteed never to be lagged, desynchronized, or given a copy and paste response from a GM? I sure didn't see any of that. When I signed up even after hearing and reading about all this "terrible stuff," I accepted that I'm pretty much paying for a beta, and I'm fine with that. I like being part of something different.

You on the other hand appear to have some idea in your head that if this product you're paying for isn't up to your self-defined standards, you're being robbed and need to whine about it. Your tagname fits you well. Judging by your lack of understanding of how this game called "being a consumer" works, you've probably never worked a minute in customer service, or at least not very well. On the topic of being gagged, your little rant doesn't belong in Jita local chat, its about as appropriate as an ISK seller spam. If you're going to stop playing, fine, but keep it off the forums. If you have something additional to say about it, theres a little tool with a text box you can use to say all this when you cancel the subscription.

Posting crap like this and placing the blame of your misfortunes on CCP is childish and shows lack of understanding of what landed you in the situation you're describing. 200+ player server crushing fleet combat was created by the player base, not CCP. Whether or not the gameplay designed by CCP encourages such masses (POS warfare) is irrelevant. You're playing in a sandbox with landmines. You know where the landmines are yet you step on them anyway. How is that CCP's fault?

And keep your bull**** taken for granted "freedom of speech [everywhere]" garbage to yourself, you clearly lack understanding of that as well. EVE is not the USA (or any other country that allows it) in a virtual form, it has its own set of rules which you agreed to when you bought this product. Yet you wave the concept around as if it some kind of global guarantee wherever you go. It is far from it, and you have a lot of nerve to think it should be entitled to you by default.

I would love for you to correct me, please show me you have something useful or relevant to say in a civil tone and I promise I will listen. I'm pretty sure CCP will as well. All I'm hearing from this is "This game has problems and CCP has failed to personally tell me that all ones that **** me off are being worked on. In light of that I quit, and you should too." In any event, I sincerely hope that you find a new product that lives up to your standards. Let me know if you do, it'd be one impossibly perfect little thing.

sliver 0xD
exiles.
Posted - 2007.08.02 07:31:00 - [144]
 

another lag post... maybe there is something wrong with the game...

"GM: We can`t seen anything in our logs, game is fine."

if there is the chance that in 2 or 3 months the game starts to run much beter. is there a chance players get there lost ships back? or are we to blame that the client goes fubar?

hantwo
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.02 07:46:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


so the best answer you can come up with to lag and desync is "na na na subscription numbers increasing" way to go batman

Milena Rage
The Aftermath
Posted - 2007.08.02 07:51:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: hantwo
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


so the best answer you can come up with to lag and desync is "na na na subscription numbers increasing" way to go batman


lol, and the numbers went up this month because CCP said they fixed desync.. we come back and ...Rolling Eyes

Milena Rage
The Aftermath
Posted - 2007.08.02 08:01:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?




I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.


QFT

Plutonian
Gallente
Intransigent
Posted - 2007.08.02 08:19:00 - [148]
 

I'm very surprised at CCP's official response to this issue; both in tone and content. I've come to expect a more... professional... response from such a large business entity.

Perhaps CCP really doesn't care if subscribers leave the game. As they said, they've got new ones coming in. A veteran pays just as much as a new player.

But I'd be very careful about word of mouth. Right now these guys are talking about the issue on your forums... which you (rightly) control.

What happens when they start spreading the word elsewhere? How will you control that? What effect do you think that would have on new subscriptions?

Jonathos
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.02 08:24:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.




What is all this about, everyone wants to say that Eve is just going straight to hell, can't you people at least try instead of making these posts that aren't even inflammatory enough to be considered a flame? It's just pathetic seeing all this energy going towards this end of Eve bull****.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 08:24:00 - [150]
 

waaaah another human made fun of just another whiner, waaah that human happens to work for a company, lets all whine about how bad it is for their image to be human Rolling Eyes

1 Billion Isk to the person who can make these children grow the frell up Laughing


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