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blankseplocked Tired of desyncs? (not lag!). CCP logs show no loss?
 
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Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:38:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
How did you fail at reporting bugs?

That's really arrogant and cold towards a paying customer.

Bug reporting is clumsy, stupid, and more trouble than a paying customer should have to put up with.

Perhaps you don't remember who really pays you. It's the paying customer.

Learn it, love it, live it.


He said he's canceling his account in protest. Hes not a paying customer.

AnarchistUK
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:39:00 - [92]
 

All I have done is create a thread, for those people who have nothing but copy and paste from GM's in the petitions, with regards to desyncs. Nothing more, nothing less. Forum trolls need not apply.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:40:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Price Watcher
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
How did you fail at reporting bugs?

That's really arrogant and cold towards a paying customer.

Bug reporting is clumsy, stupid, and more trouble than a paying customer should have to put up with.

Perhaps you don't remember who really pays you. It's the paying customer.

Learn it, love it, live it.


hardly cold, he asked for clarification on said statment, in which the poster said they failed at bug reporting

and frankly bug reporting in eve is easier than in alot of other mmo's, where the gm's are arses

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:40:00 - [94]
 

Actually, all you did is create forum whine about the desync #3,415. And nothing constructive.

Aldir Rundal
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:41:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Fader Bane
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: AnarchistUK

THEY HAVE NO STOPPED SKILL TRAINING WHILST ACCOUNTS ARE DISABLED.


I do believe the phrase: "Proof or STFU" would be appropriate.

My proof is in the patch notes.


do post the link.


Apologies, You are correct, this is a myth. After viewing the patchnotes it states:

"On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change."


AnarchistUK
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:45:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: Fader Bane
Originally by: Aldir Rundal
Originally by: AnarchistUK

THEY HAVE NO STOPPED SKILL TRAINING WHILST ACCOUNTS ARE DISABLED.


I do believe the phrase: "Proof or STFU" would be appropriate.

My proof is in the patch notes.


do post the link.


Apologies, You are correct, this is a myth. After viewing the patchnotes it states:

"On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change."




Thank you for correcting this. Now sign this thread Cool

Lady Natacha
Minmatar
Water and Power
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:47:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler


Desynch is being worked on, we've even had a thread in the Game Development Forum for a month asking for assistance, right here.




Right, but why bury this thread asking for player input in the Game Development forum and not in the Known Issues and Workarounds forum where it rightfully belongs and would actually get some visibility and actual player response? Would too many of those new subscribers see it maybe?

In the mind of the English-speaking common man:

development = new stuff
issues = bugs/problems

I really doubt anyone is looking for ways to solve their desync issues in a development forum.



Zantrei Kordisin
FinFleet
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:48:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:49:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Lady Natacha
Originally by: CCP Wrangler


Desynch is being worked on, we've even had a thread in the Game Development Forum for a month asking for assistance, right here.




Right, but why bury this thread asking for player input in the Game Development forum and not in the Known Issues and Workarounds forum where it rightfully belongs and would actually get some visibility and actual player response? Would too many of those new subscribers see it maybe?

In the mind of the English-speaking common man:

development = new stuff
issues = bugs/problems

I really doubt anyone is looking for ways to solve their desync issues in a development forum.





Try the dictionary before you talk about the definition.

Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:52:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Hmmm. The game today seems much less stable, more buggy and yet has far more players than when I began playing about two years ago.

So I guess the lesson learned is the more you break the game, the more people will pay to play it?

Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:52:00 - [101]
 

You know. The real question we should all be asking is

What is going to be the punishment of the developer who's typo created the desync bug?

May I recommend dumping them in a tub of molasses, then covering them in feathers and making them run around the office screaming something about someone replacing the fluid in their pod...

/gotta keep things interesting at CCP HQ after all
//would make for good EvE TV too....

Ggrimreaper
Dreamscape
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:53:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.



so me jumping into a POS fight shooting ppl then warping out to the sun shooting someone else there and warping back to the POS to my death.. and later reviewing combat logs seeing i never actually reached the sun... or if i did I died there.. as i never got warping to planet X moon X is lag is it???

NO THATS A DESYNC... so I suggest you stop assuming we don't know what we are talking about when we do...

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:54:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Mari Onette
You know. The real question we should all be asking is

What is going to be the punishment of the developer who's typo created the desync bug?

May I recommend dumping them in a tub of molasses, then covering them in feathers and making them run around the office screaming something about someone replacing the fluid in their pod...

/gotta keep things interesting at CCP HQ after all
//would make for good EvE TV too....

A typo would probably get caught by the compiler. Sadly I fear the desync bug is buried deep in the interactions between netcode, server code, and client code. Neutral

AnarchistUK
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:58:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.


Hitting warp, screen stays at gate, but the server warps you off. Yes that's a desync.

Another example, sitting at a gate at jump range, 20 people jump on you, you lag (this is expected for 5 seconds with only 20 people jumping in), you hit jump, sorry you're over 2500mtrs away (yet at 0km when they jumped in) amd your screen hasn't moved, yet the client is desynced and you can't jump.

Zantrei Kordisin
FinFleet
Posted - 2007.08.02 00:58:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Ggrimreaper
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.



so me jumping into a POS fight shooting ppl then warping out to the sun shooting someone else there and warping back to the POS to my death.. and later reviewing combat logs seeing i never actually reached the sun... or if i did I died there.. as i never got warping to planet X moon X is lag is it???

NO THATS A DESYNC... so I suggest you stop assuming we don't know what we are talking about when we do...


Yeah, that's a desync. Not seeing people jump into you isn't desync. It's just getting old with everyone that gets even the slightest bit of lag runs around screaming OMG I GOT DESYNChED!!!1!ELEVEN! About half the issues people have talked about here have actually been desyncs. Please, for the love of god, shouting desync about every issue is just getting old. The issue is lag, desyncs have always been around. Lag causes desyncs. And desync is just a ridiculously annoying word.

Lady Natacha
Minmatar
Water and Power
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:04:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Lady Natacha
Originally by: CCP Wrangler


Desynch is being worked on, we've even had a thread in the Game Development Forum for a month asking for assistance, right here.




Right, but why bury this thread asking for player input in the Game Development forum and not in the Known Issues and Workarounds forum where it rightfully belongs and would actually get some visibility and actual player response? Would too many of those new subscribers see it maybe?

In the mind of the English-speaking common man:

development = new stuff
issues = bugs/problems

I really doubt anyone is looking for ways to solve their desync issues in a development forum.





Try the dictionary before you talk about the definition.


If you are going to be a troll, then proof or STFU. I also never used the word "definition" so refer to the dictionary yourself and take some reading comprehension classes while you are at it.

Quote:
Known Issues & Workarounds
Connectivity, software and hardware issues.


Quote:

Game Development Forum
Test server feedback, comments to changes and fixes.


So which one of these 2 places above would you think to look for solutions to a problem you are having with the game software?


Price Watcher
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:05:00 - [107]
 

Wrangler is canceling his account? Are you stoned?

Originally by: Mari Onette
He said he's canceling his account in protest. Hes not a paying customer.

Goca
KAOS.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:06:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: AmusedVermin
Hmmm...

And the issue here is subscriptions. . . Rolling Eyes

Good call Wrangler. Hope all CCP are as sharp a cookie as you. Wink

/ signed
Well, that comment was about the idea some people has that EVE is dying because everyone is leaving, which isn't true. Wink


keep "fixing" the game like you "has" been and it may become true...
You have a monopoly right now, that could change someday, remember that.

Aldir Rundal
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:10:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: AnarchistUK

Thank you for correcting this. Now sign this thread Cool


I'm not going to sign this thread. Based purely on the fact that Whining about desync's(which have been around forever, and were always treated as lag) and lag is not going to solve the problem.

To be completely honest, whining about desyncs and protesting them until they're gone is absurd. In all aspects of Eve, your client has to remain in contact with the server. How does it do this? By sending small pieces of information. If this were Space-Pong Online, we wouldn't have a desync problem because of the small amount of information required for it to function.

In Eve, however, there is so much information to relay that it is very unlikely that your client is in constant real-time contact with the server.

For Example: Your ship is flying through an asteroid pocket with 5 asteroids(names a1 through a5), In that pocket, You must relay: Your ships speed, it's direction, Range to a1, Range to a2, Range to a3, Range to a4, and Range to a5.

Now, throw in querries: Is Ship touching a1? Is Ship touching a2? Is Ship touching a3? Is Ship touching a4? Is Ship touching a5? Are the modlues active? All of this has to be done simultaneously, within miliseconds of eachother.

Let's add another piece, shall we? How about thirty thousand players at the same time, accross multiple places, all doing Much Much Much More complicated tasks than that one. All needing to be comunicated to at the same time, all needing the same information, and in a perfect world, all in real-time.

So how do you stop this from making the game turn-based? You limit how much information you're sending every second, so that it is manageable for both the server and the client. Tada, you are then always Slightly desynced from the server. Throw in some more lag, heavy amount of information for, say, a massive fleet battle, and tada, major, more noticable desyncs.

The problem is solve-able, but don't believe for a second that you are going to get rid of it for good, or that this is anything new. I remember something from a very long time ago, something about this being public knowledge in the eve-community, but I could be wrong.

Therefore, Not Signed.

Note: I have no qualifications in this field, and derived this, from what little knowledge I have on the subject, and some damned common sense. Flame away if you so desire.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:12:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...

Aldir Rundal
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:18:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...


Wondered when you were going to show up Neutral

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:20:00 - [112]
 

in other news, DS is wasting forum bandwid... oh wait Razz

Sephron Kintaka
Genbuku.
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:23:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Sephron Kintaka on 02/08/2007 01:24:39
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Well, it was a funny spelling mistake, I saw one Oveur made a while that was better, he spelled whether wether, which means castrated male sheep.

It's not a cut and paste GM response, we have different queues with different levels of priority, the senior GM queue is one of those, and once a petition is escalated to that queue it gets dealt with in the order it arrived, and obviously it can take more time to investigate some issues than others. That's explaining how the queue works.

It was indeed a funny spelling mistake. Your response, however, was demeaning and inappropriate. I think by this point, any 35 million SP player knows how the senior GM queue works. The point Harleigh is trying to make is that the standard senior GM queue is unacceptable in this case.

While we wait "up to two weeks," we've lost a substantial portion of the alliance to account cancellations and the rest of the alliance has been demoralized by the state of the mechanics of the game. If our alliance had some kind of acknowledgment from CCP, some kind of recognition that this desynching is an issue and that it is being worked on...... it would really mean a lot to us. But the longer CCP takes to do that, the more we are loosing.... day by day. So far all we have are smarta** comments and cut and paste responses.

We are long-time customers of CCP Games. We are frustrated and angry. As a representative of CCP and the developers in charge of maintaining and improving the game.... we're all looking to you for help.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:28:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...


It's too much work to hang onto the players that have been here 4+ years, as they are more demanding. I mean, why should CCP care? I pay the same ammount per month as the players who come & go every 6 to 12 months. How is a monthly sub from a 4 year vet like myself any better than from those 6 month turn-around players? News flash, it's not!

CCP will take the money any way they can get it... For every disgruntled long term vet that leaves the game, 5 bright eyed newbs are paying CCP a monthly sub for 6 months, who cares if they don't retain them, as long as they keep gaining subs, the accountants at CCP are happy, hence the comapny is happy. Screw the players who were the initial group who got CCP where they are today, we mean nothing to them, as we b!tch too much about the game flaws...

Harleigh
Genbuku.
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:28:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.


Do i know what a desynch is ?

Ummm ..actually in R/L I am a Senior Engineer in a fortune 500 company specializing in database performance for large customers .. U ?

And no .. it is NOT lag .. lag is expected and understandable ..

Desynch is the issue here ..

Highlighted in this thread...

desynch issues with fleet warefare

It contains numerous posts validating the issue including a screenshot of the MOM kill today getting hit from a hac 24 Au away ..


MOM desynched

My rebuke is substantiated with expamples and peer acknowledgement .. you .. need to actually read OP before responding..




Now run along troll ..

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:30:00 - [116]
 

ok so t heres very little CCP can do about this apart from discovering the key to faster than light communications. perhaps the ramsan will help a bit

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:32:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Herculite on 02/08/2007 01:34:58
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Oh not a very good answer, not at all Sad

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Harleigh
Common courtosy would have someone atleast send a "yeah we are still working on it message" or are the Senior gm's that busy investigating bugs? ...

Wait .. i know .. maybe they are too busy in their alliances with all the wars going on ... whoops .. not allowed to bring that one up ... :P
Well, that's a bit of personal preference, some people complain if they get automated responses, some want it on a daily basis and some seems to want it hourly, but of course the senior GMs will get to that petition as soon as the ones that came in before are dealt with. But we do tell people that if a petition is escalated to the senior GM queue it can take a while because those petitions usually require a lot of investigation.


All I want to know is why you guys are fostering mega blobbing when your servers obviously have no chance in hell of handling it.

Fanjita
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:37:00 - [118]
 

the whole thing is screwed up we had a gang lost to desynch everyone petitioned 2 people got there ships back 3 didn't when asked the reason for this discrepency they then took the other two peoples ships away. thats another 5 long term players who wont be playing for much longer.

Buttes and
Posted - 2007.08.02 01:38:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Buttes and on 02/08/2007 01:38:36
Originally by: Harleigh
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Harleigh

/me covers herself in vasiline, and holds up a huge flaming billboard

<<<<DESYNCH>>>>

WE CAN"T SEE THE DAM HOSTILES JUMPING IN ON US A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME ..

Clear enough ?

You not able to read a friggin Thread title? or read the rest of the forum posts ?



I get the general impression that you aren't particularly bright.

Do you even know what desynch is? I bet half the people in this thread don't even have a clue. These issues aren't desynchs, desynchs are when your ships shows as being somewhere it isn't. That isn't the problem. This is lag.

Stop saying desynch, because these issues aren't ****ing desynchs.


Do i know what a desynch is ?

Ummm ..actually in R/L I am a Senior Engineer in a fortune 500 company specializing in database performance for large customers .. U ?

And no .. it is NOT lag .. lag is expected and understandable ..

Desynch is the issue here ..

Highlighted in this thread...

desynch issues with fleet warefare

It contains numerous posts validating the issue including a screenshot of the MOM kill today getting hit from a hac 24 Au away ..


MOM desynched

My rebuke is substantiated with expamples and peer acknowledgement .. you .. need to actually read OP before responding..




Now run along troll ..




I'm a blah blah blah with a blah blah blah .... wow really...I'm impressed that validates all your points.

Oh wait hang on a second.

What experience do you have with the eve code and server?? wait whats that...none...dear god say it ain't so.

So with your wealth of experience of the eve server maybe you could fix the issue instead of creating pointless forum posts when theres a thread asking for log servers and bug reports on it....oh wait you can obviously fix things faster by trolling here

Price Watcher
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:09:00 - [120]
 

Another bend-over-and-spread-'em fanboy heard from.

Originally by: Herculite
Edited by: Herculite on 02/08/2007 01:34:58
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Oh not a very good answer, not at all Sad

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Harleigh
Common courtosy would have someone atleast send a "yeah we are still working on it message" or are the Senior gm's that busy investigating bugs? ...

Wait .. i know .. maybe they are too busy in their alliances with all the wars going on ... whoops .. not allowed to bring that one up ... :P
Well, that's a bit of personal preference, some people complain if they get automated responses, some want it on a daily basis and some seems to want it hourly, but of course the senior GMs will get to that petition as soon as the ones that came in before are dealt with. But we do tell people that if a petition is escalated to the senior GM queue it can take a while because those petitions usually require a lot of investigation.


All I want to know is why you guys are fostering mega blobbing when your servers obviously have no chance in hell of handling it.


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