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blankseplocked Tired of desyncs? (not lag!). CCP logs show no loss?
 
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Freya Selene
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.08.04 13:04:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Untill there is another MMORPG released that catches the interest of your customer.

The OP does make a point. I myself been losing ships during strange events where some well known players will get there stuff reimbursed in no time. However all the times, my petittions where rejected. Maby i just have the wrong friends who knows.

As for the account subscriptions increase, aye he.. even i opend a 3th account. Couse the things i wana do i just cant handle with a single account. Bear in mind that at this moment there are no good MMORPG's for pvp'ers in the world of Internet. However there are a dozen about to hit the shelves. The reason a few other MMORPG's died, is cause the lack of customer support and game stability.

Signing off, Freya Sleene.

darkmancer
Posted - 2007.08.04 13:08:00 - [272]
 

As a personal experiance - ive lost a rigged up cerb to a MC fleet due to the rubber band effect, and a rook to 2 commandships due to nothing loading up when my small gang warped to gate (8 people i think).

Both recieved the usual cut n paste.

However on the flip side, all complex online games sometimes have issues. CCP can't agree to all petitions else the nimbies would whine every time they lost a ship, and make warfare pointless.

So what can CCP do? short term nothing, cut n paste is about the best they can do. long term, better tools and common sense.

A rook in a small gang warps to a gate and is engaged by 2 ships, does the rook jump though the gate? no, jam the enemy? no, mwd off? no, cloak no? fire at the enemy? no, target the enemy? no, sit still and slowly get pounded to pieces - yup.

Kinda hints that something was wrong doesn't it?

Manic Smile
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:06:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Braineater
Originally by: Manic Smile
Edited by: Manic Smile on 04/08/2007 11:17:11
let me reword that:

CCPs epic large fleet PvP craps out at under 30 people in an otherwise empty 0.0 system...

(Pictures of "Session change already in progress")



You jumped in, saw four reds at the gate, immediately decloaked and burned back to the gate in order to jump out and were almost killed?
There's a 30s timer after jumping in, during which you cannot jump back out. This is why a scout usually sits there until he decloaks and only then runs back to the gate. I've seen many a fast ship that immediately decloaked, ran, bounced and died.


Give me the benefit of the doubt please...I know I didn't explain it in detail but that was to save space. What happened is we were camping another gate in the same system in the Tri pipe praticing our FCing and all that. We were ****ing around with a shuttle and a Raven and waiting for the response when our scout reported 13 incoming with better ships. So we decided to run back the other way. So we warped to the gate, in the same system, headed by towards home to try and maybe engage if they came in sporadicly but Tri did it almost textbook with a mass warp in, 2 or 3 went through gate and then dictor droped bubble at gate. We were prepared for the dictor and all at 0 already but when I hit jump, waaaaaayyyy before quater shields...well you see the result.

There are no timers as I fired no shot and I was in system for over 10min. You can see the message clearly. Either there was a lag spike and I was dead long before I tried to jump or I desynced.

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:22:00 - [274]
 

Edited by: Erim Solfara on 04/08/2007 21:26:02
Originally by: AnarchistUK

*** Note **** On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change.


I sincerely hope this isn't being introduced...

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...



Too true seemingly :(

Manic Smile
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:38:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


It's good to know that the gold farmers with their alt armies are going strong and growing...

Seriously Wrangler I don't mean disrespect but how can you deny the problems of this game...it's like the "there's no global warming" administration with the ice melting all around us. People may not be quitting in droves because you still have the best damn real pvp space game around but not all this unrest is just talk. I'm sick of being told you see nothing 'on your server side logs' only to have you 'fix' the problem weeks later only to have the same problem repeat again after.

DRACO selen
The Executives
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:09:00 - [276]
 

I tryed to make a run with my hauler today... and this is what happened:


I arrived at a gate and clicked "jump"... nothing happend *click again* "session change in process"...
after about a minute i just saw this:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/975/28288391lm5.jpg
(noone in local, no npc's at the gate, what happend? why i'm taking dmg and why cant i swich on my shield booster?!)


after another 2 minutes i go frozen screen for about 10 sec and then this:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8656/totodernichtaw3.jpg
(killed by npc's wich were not at the gate, my iteron is a wreck the GSC i had in cargo dropped but i'm still piloting my "wreck"? look at the timestamp the concord mail is from 21:26 and my client show's 21:31)

after 5 minutes i tryed to relog and found myself in a pod in u-t.

Arngorf
Minmatar
Cahoots Foray
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:32:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

Bwahahahahaha! Owned. Very HappyVery Happy


LOL, Tarminic.

You sure know how to put things Laughing

me bored
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:38:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...

In other news, CCP doesn't give a crap about their subscribers, they only care about subscriber numbers. It appears they are learning from SOE, a very successful MMORPG develop--oh wait...


I salute you, brave forum warrior.

General Cane
Federation of Synthetic Persons
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:46:00 - [279]
 

Edited by: General Cane on 04/08/2007 22:52:33
Edited by: General Cane on 04/08/2007 22:48:04
wonderfull, a dev replying with a flame of subscription numbers. Thats really what we want. AND thats exactly what he meant about whats wrong with your customer support...

gratz ccp.

edit: and not to mention that i cant logon since 4 hours with 1 of my 3 accs... good work. now fix your damn fcking game and then come back and brack with your subscription numbers.

Manic Smile
The Scope
Posted - 2007.08.05 01:50:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: DRACO selen
I tryed to make a run with my hauler today... and this is what happened:


I arrived at a gate and clicked "jump"... nothing happend *click again* "session change in process"...
after about a minute i just saw this:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/975/28288391lm5.jpg
(noone in local, no npc's at the gate, what happend? why i'm taking dmg and why cant i swich on my shield booster?!)


after another 2 minutes i go frozen screen for about 10 sec and then this:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8656/totodernichtaw3.jpg
(killed by npc's wich were not at the gate, my iteron is a wreck the GSC i had in cargo dropped but i'm still piloting my "wreck"? look at the timestamp the concord mail is from 21:26 and my client show's 21:31)

after 5 minutes i tryed to relog and found myself in a pod in u-t.



Same problem as me. I can tell you what your petition response will look like:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/993614917_80d1e0dd7b_o.png

Ghost Reaper
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.08.05 02:34:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Out of curiosity howmany of them were GTC's and howmany were new subscriptions?

As for the servers not showing logs, thast just a standard response. The servers do show the logs, but its such a wide spread problem that they cant return the ships to everone. When the problem 1st arose, i got 2 megas back within a few days (desyncs in fleet fights 4tl).

FOr the main part they have solved a lot of issues were desyncing accaused, but lets not forget this was out before rev 2 was released, and normaly happend with super caps. And yet again, is mainly happening with super caps again.

On a side note, how can ur servers not show logs to it, as the servers show logs for damage messages and so on. Now for example if a user provides evidence, as in fraps or screenshots of this. You can check servers to see this person wasn't loged off, was taking the damage, and his screen doesnt show him being there, whats with that?

Gr

Britt Foxx
Posted - 2007.08.05 03:52:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: General Cane
Edited by: General Cane on 04/08/2007 22:52:33
Edited by: General Cane on 04/08/2007 22:48:04
wonderfull, a dev replying with a flame of subscription numbers. Thats really what we want. AND thats exactly what he meant about whats wrong with your customer support...

gratz ccp.

edit: and not to mention that i cant logon since 4 hours with 1 of my 3 accs... good work. now fix your damn fcking game and then come back and brack with your subscription numbers.



Thats it right there. Wranglers response stunk of raw arrogance. CCP has gotten so fat and lazy it's pathetic. This game has slowly gone downhill since the cold war patch a few years ago. When everyone votes with their feet as i have done(last day for me on this last account)then maybe they will get a clue. The only subscription numbers i personally care about are my accounts. I wont feed their greed beast anymore for this crap they call a game.

Fingapup
Posted - 2007.08.05 23:44:00 - [283]
 

Advertising provides the new subscribers. Bad game experiences do not deter as many people as are seduced by the shiny adverts.

But, sad to say, I have to agree with the original post. I could live without heat or boosters or even rigs if the game worked smoothly.

Newer Bigger Shinier isn't always the way to build a bus. Pay the Mechanic not the Body Shop!

Hayah Theos
Posted - 2007.08.06 00:42:00 - [284]
 

Edited by: Hayah Theos on 06/08/2007 00:44:40
Originally by: Mari Onette
Edited by: Mari Onette on 01/08/2007 23:40:47
Originally by: Ggrimreaper

with all due respect Wrangler I know of at least a dozen ppl from our alliance who have quit and i know of quite a few more thinking about it...




I thought Spartans were supposed to fight to the (node) death...

As an aside, I don't mind that older players are leaving the game. It means 1 less 3 year old player with a dreadnaught that I have to worry about. The loss of players with lots of experience is saddening, and it is saddening to those who knew the players, but from a gameplay standpoint it is not that bad, provided you are getting new players and retaining them (which ccp is doing a fairly good job at I'd say).

Old players leaving means that there is a power vacuum that newer players can fill. It's sad to see old faces go, but it's even cooler to meet new awesome people.

**************************

You are incorrect in your understanding of the situation. While "old players" may leave the game, their Toons rarely do. They are just sold or passed to the existing power structure to further solidify the BORG's death-grip on EVE.

And why all these negative comments about EVE? Don't you people know EVE is perfect "as is"? The FanBois say so...

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2007.08.06 02:46:00 - [285]
 

Edited by: w0rmy on 06/08/2007 02:50:37
Originally by: Manic Smile

let me reword that:

CCPs epic large fleet PvP craps out at under 30 people in an otherwise empty 0.0 system...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/993582079_6bd1873a53_o.png
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/993582201_1292b36f02_o.png
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1052/993582225_a705861787_o.png

And of course there is no desynce...it's all been 'fixed'

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/993614917_80d1e0dd7b_o.png

You know I realize could have been a huge lag spike but it's got the same effect of making PvP kinda pointless and it's not just me.



OMG WOW!!!!

Since I was there, and killed you, I can tell you things from what I saw...

Your gang jumped, except two of you, you sat stationary and allowed us to kill you, and it didnt take 9minutes :P

Nor was CurlUp and Terianna in system when myself and bob engaged you...


I seriously cannot believe (Having seen these screens shots, and having actually been there) that you did not get your ship back!

Actually, having filed petitions for this same thing myself, I unfortunately can Sad


But hey everyone, atleast we have EVE-Voice!!!!! Rolling Eyes


Originally by: Braineater
Originally by: Manic Smile
Edited by: Manic Smile on 04/08/2007 11:17:11
let me reword that:

CCPs epic large fleet PvP craps out at under 30 people in an otherwise empty 0.0 system...

(Pictures of "Session change already in progress")



You jumped in, saw four reds at the gate, immediately decloaked and burned back to the gate in order to jump out and were almost killed?
There's a 30s timer after jumping in, during which you cannot jump back out. This is why a scout usually sits there until he decloaks and only then runs back to the gate. I've seen many a fast ship that immediately decloaked, ran, bounced and died.




No, He and his gang warped from one gate, to the gate seen in the picture, where all his gang managed to jumped, except 2 ships, which appeared to attempt to play possum with us.



Captain Budwieser
LFC
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.08.06 05:01:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: w0rmy
I seriously cannot believe (Having seen these screens shots, and having actually been there) that you did not get your ship back!

Actually, having filed petitions for this same thing myself, I unfortunately can


yeah thats honest of you to say so
i was in a fight once, cant remmber exactly where, and we were all on a gate and a big old fleet warps in and everything slows right down and i spy this astarte in front of me so i go for it, me in a deimos drones out - and then the server finally buckles and we all desync

unlucky for that guy my guns were on and my drones out, i couldnt see his armour dropping but i knew he was dieing :)
(lol exploiter)

i stayed for a while and then i got a little red in my shield and clicked to warp out - 5 miutes later i did warp out, my shield dropping all the time - arrived at a planet my shield is still taking hits, lucky for me it stopped before armour and it was all good

i hope that guy got his ship back even tho he did make a nice kill mail :) cause all that time i knew damn well he couldnt even target me back

unless these problems are going to go away tomorrow its time to rethink the way GMs interact with the players and i think we have all had quite enough of "we cant verify" or "we checked our logs but..."
its not a free ride im arguing for but maybe just a little bit of fairness and if GMs have to work a bit harder to provide that then so they should

Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.06 05:20:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Manic Smile
Edited by: Manic Smile on 04/08/2007 11:17:11
let me reword that:

CCPs epic large fleet PvP craps out at under 30 people in an otherwise empty 0.0 system...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/993582079_6bd1873a53_o.png

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/993582201_1292b36f02_o.png

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1052/993582225_a705861787_o.png


And of course there is no desynce...it's all been 'fixed'

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/993614917_80d1e0dd7b_o.png

You know I realize could have been a huge lag spike but it's got the same effect of making PvP kinda pointless and it's not just me.


That is precisely what happened to me. Everything was fine one moment, and then my modules stopped turning on and off, and when my ship ran out of HP (Sleipnirs do that when you don't/can't turn on the shield booster), the ship wouldn't explode, and the only modules I could see were the ones that turned out to be destroyed. I even got the exact same cut/paste response. I requested escalation (and after the second time I asked, it was escalated). Still waiting on a response, but I'm not hopeful. Like I said before, it's a tough spot for the GMs when the logs show nothing, especially when they KNOW there's a problem that they can't quite locate. Of course, that doesn't make losing a ship to it any less sucky for us.

Captain Budwieser
LFC
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.08.06 05:41:00 - [288]
 

escalation means they read it and wonder down to the staff lounge where mr. important GM is feasting on donuts and watching tv and tell him they got one whos arguing and what should they do ?

"arguing eh? well our logs will show them! everything on our end was working with 101% effciency and the problem was caused by your isp/cache/p2p programs/software problems in general/hardware problems/network problems/honesty problems/owning up that the servers cant cope in some situation problems/the sun was shining and any other problems that "fall under normal game play, hardware or network problems on the customer end."

its not their server at all Twisted Evil

further...

"We regret to inform you that we have not been able to verify exactly what happened to you and thus are not able to reimburse you. We can only use our server logs for verification as this is the only secure information that we have. Unfortunately, they do not have the information that would be required for reimbursement in this case. I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and wish you a speedy recovery. "

whats that smell? keep alot of cows near CCP hq do they?

if the logs are really that bad how do CCP even know this problem exists ? from their point of veiw everything must be working fine - the logs clearly show nothing whatsoever

i do beleive they asked us to run log server in another thread and maybe that would help us with petitions.... ahhh drat! GMs dont accept player evidence do they ?

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2007.08.06 06:32:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: DRACO selen

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8656/totodernichtaw3.jpg
(killed by npc's wich were not at the gate, my iteron is a wreck the GSC i had in cargo dropped but i'm still piloting my "wreck"? look at the timestamp the concord mail is from 21:26 and my client show's 21:31)

after 5 minutes i tryed to relog and found myself in a pod in u-t.



ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

You got destroyed in one system, logged off, and logged back in in a different system?

oh my Confused

AnarchistUK
Posted - 2007.08.06 14:12:00 - [290]
 

Edited by: AnarchistUK on 06/08/2007 14:14:36
When desynced, you can still warp around (if the lag doesn't kill the right-click menu).

I was desynced in 1 battle, hit warp towards an outpost, but the screen didn't leave the gate. I waited 1 minute and right click to warp to a POS. I waited 1 minute and relogged. There I was... inside the POS. lol Laughing

1 account offline for 30+ days. This char goes offline soon Cool

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.08.06 14:17:00 - [291]
 

If you quit, will you finally quit bumping your useless, whiny thread? Rolling Eyes

Laah T'Sin
Caldari
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.06 14:43:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


Well I'm very glad for CCP but maybe an answer to our requests would have been nice..? Or is CCP saying that desync is good for the game? Or why do you defend your Devs by telling us that many people are creating new accounts? If thats true then CCP should have even more interest in fixing their game.. becuase all those new players will also sooner or later want to fight in "epic fleet battles" (as advertised by CCP) which are acutally not possible due to desycn.

When angry customers turn around and complain about loosing their assets and being told that a KNOWN BUG (see patch notes) does not warrent a reimbursment then I'm sorry but in that case not only the game is broken but the GMs that decide such things. Shocked

Laah T'Sin
Caldari
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.06 14:51:00 - [293]
 

Edited by: Laah T''Sin on 06/08/2007 14:56:51
Edited by: Laah T''Sin on 06/08/2007 14:51:32
Originally by: DRACO selen

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8656/totodernichtaw3.jpg
(killed by npc's wich were not at the gate, my iteron is a wreck the GSC i had in cargo dropped but i'm still piloting my "wreck"? look at the timestamp the concord mail is from 21:26 and my client show's 21:31)

after 5 minutes i tryed to relog and found myself in a pod in u-t.


Thats funny. Something like this happend to a friend of mine. He was flying a thorax, jumped into camped system, desynched/lagged up and then disconnected. After he relogged (about 10+ mins later) he had gotten a kill mail for his thorax but was actually still sitting in the supposedly destroyed thorax. He even was able to target people so he killed a few pods, got killmails for them, then was engaged and died again (and got a second killmail for his thorax with other items being destroyed or having survived then in the first KM). So basicly he podded 4 people with a ship that actually didn't exist at that time. The GM response was also as usual.. "nothing in logs" even thouh he could provide the GM with exact infos, screenshots and even the double-KM.

very strange... but hell... it's not the game.. it's our ISPs or maybe a collective hallucination..?Shocked

Eriol Hiiragizawa
Empyrean Warriors
Posted - 2007.08.06 16:12:00 - [294]
 

People appear to be confusing the statements "CCP has poor customer service" with "I put 'desync' or 'lag' in my petition and didn't get my ship back". Considering EvE as a game environment, I don't particularly trust the honesty of a majority of the people that play it.

In fact, doesn't the current problem of desync on TQ revolve around the fact that client and server aren't communicating properly with each other? If the client is doing one thing while the server throws it's hands in the air and declares everything just fine, then there will be no logs that constitute evidence whenever a reimbursement is concerned.

Giving the benefit of the doubt here just wouldn't work (Even though everyone knows, including CCP, that there's a problem), then anyone who lost a ship could just hit F12, put "desync" somewhere in the text box and get their ship back, regardless if it was a legit kill or a real problem.

Here's hoping the new server hardware and subsequent fixes clear the issues out.

Misses Gap
Caldari
The Lantern Mining Corporation
Posted - 2007.08.06 16:19:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Eriol Hiiragizawa
People appear to be confusing the statements "CCP has poor customer service" with "I put 'desync' or 'lag' in my petition and didn't get my ship back". Considering EvE as a game environment, I don't particularly trust the honesty of a majority of the people that play it.

In fact, doesn't the current problem of desync on TQ revolve around the fact that client and server aren't communicating properly with each other? If the client is doing one thing while the server throws it's hands in the air and declares everything just fine, then there will be no logs that constitute evidence whenever a reimbursement is concerned.

Giving the benefit of the doubt here just wouldn't work (Even though everyone knows, including CCP, that there's a problem), then anyone who lost a ship could just hit F12, put "desync" somewhere in the text box and get their ship back, regardless if it was a legit kill or a real problem.

Here's hoping the new server hardware and subsequent fixes clear the issues out.


Here is hoping that this issue becomes a first priority , i.e. higher than merely aquiring new subscribers to make up for those leaving because of it..

Gap

Yagyu Retsudo
Yagyu Holdings
Posted - 2007.08.06 16:31:00 - [296]
 

Edited by: Yagyu Retsudo on 06/08/2007 16:32:09
Originally by: Eriol Hiiragizawa
People appear to be confusing the statements "CCP has poor customer service" with "I put 'desync' or 'lag' in my petition and didn't get my ship back". Considering EvE as a game environment, I don't particularly trust the honesty of a majority of the people that play it.

In fact, doesn't the current problem of desync on TQ revolve around the fact that client and server aren't communicating properly with each other? If the client is doing one thing while the server throws it's hands in the air and declares everything just fine, then there will be no logs that constitute evidence whenever a reimbursement is concerned.

Giving the benefit of the doubt here just wouldn't work (Even though everyone knows, including CCP, that there's a problem), then anyone who lost a ship could just hit F12, put "desync" somewhere in the text box and get their ship back, regardless if it was a legit kill or a real problem.

Here's hoping the new server hardware and subsequent fixes clear the issues out.


Well TBH if you have not run into desynch you have not played much. While I agree with you in principle that reimbursing all ships can and WOULD be exploited, the current situation is unacceptable.

Don't even get me started on what causes the desynch, which I consider related the the problem some have with the clientside UI not updating damage information (ie suddenly youre in structure when you had full shields on your screen) If you check support they will go on about overclocking and CMOS batteries, but I know they're really scratching their heads as to the true cause.

I guess the point is since there is a serious problem, they need to do more to acknowledge it than reply 'lol sucks bout your ship killed in lag hole, no restitution for you!'

Otherwise people are going to stop playing, because noone wants to jeopardize investments of time in battles that end up being decided by who the server hijinks.

Eriol Hiiragizawa
Empyrean Warriors
Posted - 2007.08.06 16:37:00 - [297]
 

Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo
While I agree with you in principle that reimbursing all ships can and WOULD be exploited, the current situation is unacceptable.


Catch 22

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if the somewhat sudden announcement regarding new server hardware had something to do with the current problems. RAMSANs are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

Mark Hamill
Amarr
Galactic Waste Management
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:26:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Ggrimreaper
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Nightbird
/signed.

Your game is broken, and people are leaving. Your customer service is lacking, and it will be the downfall of this game.


That's strange, cause I just checked the subscription numbers, and apart from them increasing every month, this month had an even bigger increase than last month...


with all due respect Wrangler I know of at least a dozen ppl from our alliance who have quit and i know of quite a few more thinking about it...


Well, the average time a person stays with a MMOG is somewhere between 6 and 12 months, very roughly, so any corporation or alliance would have people joining and leaving at any time.

I'm not saying there aren't issues with EVE, though we do work hard to get things resolved, we're constantly working on improving hardware, software and content.

But I see the subscription numbers, and the idea that EVE is going to die because people are leaving is simply not true, those subscription numbers go up every month.


Mythic Entertainment had this same arrogant optimism once upon a time. They thought that they could continue to implement changes without listening to their playerbase and thought that the success of their advertising campaigns meant that the players liked the way they did things. The more they 'tinkered' with the game, ignored blatant bugs, made sweeping, unpopular changes and swung the nerfbat because they thought they knew what the players wanted, the more the playerbase got fed up. In a period of about 6 months, their new subscriptions dried up and their playerbase numbers dropped like a rock and never came back.

DAOC is now but a shadow of what it once one because of arrogant optimism just like this. Players will tolerate a badly operating MMO for only so long.

Continue to think that you can brush the problems the OP adressed aside, continue to think that you can point to subscription numbers as a justification for adding new things and not fixing what's broken, continue to think that your MMO is unsinkable Capt. Smith. and that iceberg is going to smack right into your wallet.

Laah T'Sin
Caldari
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:27:00 - [299]
 

Edited by: Laah T''Sin on 06/08/2007 17:29:41
Originally by: Eriol Hiiragizawa
If the client is doing one thing while the server throws it's hands in the air and declares everything just fine, then there will be no logs that constitute evidence whenever a reimbursement is concerned.


Ok i can understand that. And it's also clear to me why CCP can't just trust everyone that lost a ship to "lag" or "desync" but if the server sends you two kill mails for one and the same ship (with many minutes inbetween) then there should be logs for that or not? the ship destruction must have registered with the server in order to send you a kill mail so there must at least be evidence that two seperate kill mails were sent for one and the same ship (since i'm guessing every item has some form of unique ID so you'de have to see two kills for one ID or not?)

Oh well i don't care about reimbursments anyway.. i never made use of this option before since my ships are bought and fit to die. What i have problems with is the way CCP often reacts towards angry customers. Sure we (or at least i) sometimes loose perspective and get stupid but it's also not like we don't have some reasons for our rage... the quality of customer support is not exactly highly praised and the server stability / playability of EVE is also not one of legend so i think a "sorry" would kinda be the least you'd expect and certainly not a near-mocking reaction (which usually makes the imperession that the customer is telling ties to the GM and thats not very positive after your angry anyway for loosing something).

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.08.06 17:27:00 - [300]
 

I estimate that I've lost about 1b so far due to bugs/lag/desyncs in this game.

That's about 9 months worth of game time if I had used that isk to buy GTCs instead of replacing ships.

I'm just hoping some other decent space MMO comes out. Right now CCP basically has the space MMO scene covered, so if we don't like something all we can do is quit or keep plugging away. Maybe customer service would be better in Eve if CCP had some competition.


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