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dpatyi
Posted - 2007.08.20 11:32:00 - [1681]
 

Khanid ships.
It is good idea to make ships focused to close range fight, but WHY to make them useless for long range, why it is good taking options away?Crying or Very sad
I can see many TARANIS pilots flying with railguns. that ship is intended to fight with blasters, BUT IT HAS HYBRID BONUS, AND NOT such a F##### STUPID THING LIKE BLASTER BONUS!!!!!! Mad
So the pilots got the FREEDOM to fit it close or long range! It works better close, but the decision lies within the hand of the player. That kind of freedom is why we all play this game.
I have stoped training amarr cruiser. SadSadSad

Koronos
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.08.21 13:55:00 - [1682]
 

Really really don't like the nos nerf, and the explanation for it doesn't make any sense. Its not a cap booster or a neutralizer, its a nosferatu, a vampire, stealing life to give the bloodthief strength. Omg missiles cause damage, don't use cap, are not affected by tracking or (certain degrees of) range, where's the compromise? lol. Nos are highslot, not midslot, so forget the cap recharge argument, they are an offensive weapon, and the compromise is that they don't do any damage, so you already have to use something else as well, now, you'll have to use nos, neut, AND something else, or kill your own cap and use them like less efficient neuts. Doesn't make any sense to me.

And, by the way, I very rarely fly nos-heavy ships, so this is not about "omg you're killing my favorite pwnmobile".

People who disagree with the nerf please try to test on sisi and report your results.

Koronos

If nos really are too powerful why not just make them less efficient?? Or stacking penalize their efficiency.

UnitedStatesOfAmerica
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.08.21 20:08:00 - [1683]
 

I don't get it.

I thought vampires are suppose to suck the life out of you and could do so till you die. "This makes the Nosferatus too powerful since there is no compromise involved." Wouldn't the compromise be you give up one of your high slots to have a Nos fitted which lowers your DPS? That's not a compromise? A Nos doesn't do much use if you can't break someones tank.

Ah well, hopefully this change falls thru but most of the changes I wish didn't happen, always happen. I do wonder if this change is pretty much equal to deleting the Nos out of the game.

Kravixx
Posted - 2007.08.21 21:33:00 - [1684]
 

Edited by: Kravixx on 21/08/2007 21:34:55
Edited by: Kravixx on 21/08/2007 21:33:33
Thanks for the amarr nerf, maybe ill just restart my measly 10 mil sp amarr character for a gallente if i want to pvp... or at least retrain guns and ships...

and i dont even care about the nos thing really, its the many amarr ships were losing to missiles...



edit: damn it i forgot to post as main

Johannes Alexodia
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.21 22:14:00 - [1685]
 

uhm ive never used nos and never will. It hurts me please remove it so all us Panzies can be carebears and do water sports. In fact make PVP illegal it hurts me and ruins my fun.

Freakin panzies Leave nos the way it is or Kill PVP all together In fact Shut eve down that will shut all the morons and idiots up. Make eve open only to those with Guts and a willingness to die. IN fact give the carebears there own little server with no weapons and they can mine without ever worrying about fighting.

Dont Nerf nos. Nerf eve

Eve is too fun to be left alone make is so dumb and boring it dies.

PS: every one who ever complained about NOS. Go play something like Hello Kitty Island Adventure. It should be mundane enough and peaceful enough to keep you happy.

-Signed Somone who has died by NOS, ECM, MISSILE FIRE, HYBRIDS, PROJECTILES, LASERS, RATS,



OH Wait
rats shoot back nerf them so they don't.

And dont flame my spelling cause i cant be bothered to correct it.

BTW i dont need to test the nos changes the whole explanation on it has ... N00BS cant take the heat. B

Another thing. if they nerf anything else CCP should rename it Self Blizzard II. Its all the Nerfing that blizzard does that makes me hate them. Oh the Doomsday Weapon can One hit wonder my Frig can you do it so that its damage is ralative to the ship it hits so if it hits another titan it explodes but my Battleship comes out unscathed.

Well if you dont like NOS the way it is QUIT!!!

Makhan
Posted - 2007.08.21 22:53:00 - [1686]
 

Originally by: Kravixx

and i dont even care about the nos thing really, its the many amarr ships were losing to missiles...


Boo freaking hoo, the khanid ships were just plain horrible, now they're finally getting a defined role with with use.

Marqui De'Xentura
The Perfect Storm
Posted - 2007.08.22 02:59:00 - [1687]
 

I think that the NOS changes are a step in the right direction. This still makes them viable and it brings the Energy Neutralizers back to the table more. This should also help bring Ammar back in to play more.

As for the Missile changes to Khanid ships. This is good and bad. 1 This complete screws over old players like myself that trained the 10mil in lasers with no choice but to train missiles bringing the majority in line with a brand new account. I think the other way that could balance out Ammar more would to be to keep the bonuses your proposing as far as resists and cap recharge, give some new crystals that bring some other damage types to the table. As it is now you will always know what your facing when you run up against say an Apoc or any other Ammar bship.

dpatyi
Posted - 2007.08.22 18:35:00 - [1688]
 

Originally by: Marqui De'Xentura
I think the other way that could balance out Ammar more would to be to keep the bonuses your proposing as far as resists and cap recharge, give some new crystals that bring some other damage types to the table. As it is now you will always know what your facing when you run up against say an Apoc or any other Ammar bship.


Great idea! The same for hybrids!

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.22 21:26:00 - [1689]
 

Originally by: Marqui De'Xentura
I think that the NOS changes are a step in the right direction. This still makes them viable and it brings the Energy Neutralizers back to the table more.


uummm if you use neuts on the target an kill his cap an yours at the same time what are u going to nos ? lol ,

so far i seen 3 BETTER ideas thrown around this thread ,
#1 nos hardpoints on all ships , gallente,mimatar,caldari have 1 slot an amarr have 2.
#2 sig raduis boost, just like MWD's if you fit 3 large nos your sig raduis is 1500 lol.
#3 add tracking an stacking penalty.

problem fixed ,solved, perfected w/e you wanna call it.

what is on test center is completly retarted.

just think of all the server side lag this will cuase.

an like the guys above said its a vampire module lol , some of you guys need to watch umm buffy or somthing to understand what a vampire is LOL Twisted Evil

galphi
Gallente
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2007.08.23 13:29:00 - [1690]
 

MISSILE RIGGINGS DON'T WORK WITH ROCKETS.

Was trying out the Heretic with some missile speed rigs and they didn't seem to do anything - the max velocity read the same. Is there a reason for this, or is it an oversight? I like the focus on rockets but the range extending skills and rigs are essential to prevent webifying Smile

I humbly request you make all the missile rigs (and hey, maybe even the BCU) work with rockets, I'd hate to have to resort to using standard missiles on the heretic 'cause I can't stay far enough away from the target with rockets Surprised

Wyliee
Taurus Inc
THE KLINGONS
Posted - 2007.08.23 15:02:00 - [1691]
 

Amarr is a sad story....
for along time they have been weak because of their cap dependency. in some ways the noz nerf is going to help alot of amarr ships.

i think im in the same situation as alot of ammar pilots

i have alot of skill points in lazers, armor and amarr ships

i am currently training battlecruiser5 for command then i will be able to fly and equipe all ammar ships well.

after the patch, my recons wil be screwed and the new missle ships wil be unusable to me, because i have no missle skills at all.

so im left in a situation whether to learn missles and invest 3-4 mil in them. OR train galenette ships so i can make good use of the gunnery skills i have..

after putting some info into evemon, i figured in 2 months i can fly a full t2 fitted mega.

and it be honest i think i will switch and train gal soon, sad becasue i love amarr.


what i want to know is... are gal ships next to be hit by the nerf stick? i would like to know b4 i waste my time training for them.

dpatyi
Posted - 2007.08.23 16:38:00 - [1692]
 

Well, the Nos was ower-powered, thats why you guys miss it so much...
There was no protection against it. It's a damage type, with 0% resist for it.

But we pay to have new and new tactical options to explore, not less and less...

galphi
Gallente
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2007.08.24 00:06:00 - [1693]
 

Yeah you got that right, as long as you had a lock and were in range, nos worked. Not sure that the change was the right one to make, but we'll see how it goes. I've flown the Curse for a number of months now but I can see how overpowered it was compared to other recon ships. This change reverts it back into a support vessel, which was obviously how it was intended. I was thinking of trying out a HAC anyway, we'll just have to adapt and try new tactics folks Very Happy

Vandagar
Posted - 2007.08.24 07:17:00 - [1694]
 

Originally by: galphi
Yeah you got that right, as long as you had a lock and were in range, nos worked. Not sure that the change was the right one to make, but we'll see how it goes. I've flown the Curse for a number of months now but I can see how overpowered it was compared to other recon ships. This change reverts it back into a support vessel, which was obviously how it was intended. I was thinking of trying out a HAC anyway, we'll just have to adapt and try new tactics folks Very Happy


I don't think so. Inty will be the new PWNMOBILE or "I win button" so I just train up inty skills...

galphi
Gallente
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2007.08.24 07:55:00 - [1695]
 

Well, we probably won't see dedicated nos ships anymore, but a battleship having 1 neutralizer on board is still an effective deterrent against smaller ships, so watch out Wink

Malvahne
Viziam
Posted - 2007.08.24 10:23:00 - [1696]
 

Persenoly I do not understand all the people who complain about the NOS nerf.

Nos = defensive module
Neut = offensive module

If you use nos to save your cap it will still work and if you used nos to kill other peoples cap you got nerfed well cry me a river ladies becous neuts do that job way quicker and better.

imo ofcours!

I love the nos nerf and I love the khanid changes so yay for ccp.

Caterpillar
AUS Corporation
CORE.
Posted - 2007.08.24 19:55:00 - [1697]
 

So, what happened to the promised changes to the curse and pilgrim to stop them being totally screwed by this patch? Did CCP forget altogether or have they just lost interest in listening to what its paying customers think. Please refrain from starting dev blogs CCP, you dont pay any attention to what is said in them so all you do is waste your paying customers' time, leaving valid issues unanswered. Another victory for the whiners i think. :(

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.25 01:21:00 - [1698]
 

Originally by: Caterpillar
So, what happened to the promised changes to the curse and pilgrim to stop them being totally screwed by this patch? Did CCP forget altogether or have they just lost interest in listening to what its paying customers think. Please refrain from starting dev blogs CCP, you dont pay any attention to what is said in them so all you do is waste your paying customers' time, leaving valid issues unanswered. Another victory for the whiners i think. :(


Only promised changes were to the pilgrim and the faction nos ships. If you're already upset by enough things dont go inventing more.

JaredC02
De Evil Shenanigans
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2007.08.25 05:42:00 - [1699]
 

Edited by: JaredC02 on 25/08/2007 05:53:37
Congrats, you've just ****ed up the Amarr race. Not only is the missile bonus completely pointless for the laser pilots everyone has trained up, but the Heretic is now by far the WORST interdictor in game. You force the Heretic to use rockets, and you give the flycatcher the ability to fit another light launcher... Extreme oversight, or purposely making Amarr pilots turn Caldari?

Oh, and to add to it, the way NOS SHOULD work IMO...

Assuming you're fighting someone, you would have no idea how much cap they have. Because of this, how can you know when to stop transferring cap? It makes no sense. What would make sense to me, would be to drain cap from the opposing ship until you cap reaches 100%, and have the NOS get progressively harder to get energy from as you get closer to 100%, or have the NOS get progressively slower on transfer as you get closer to 100%, much in the same way the cap regen/shield regen system works. Instead of having an amount transferred over a duration, have it a percentage recharge time while the module is active. Like a cap recharger or cap power relay, but only while active, and only while the opponent has cap to transfer.

Caterpillar
AUS Corporation
CORE.
Posted - 2007.08.25 07:40:00 - [1700]
 

Originally by: CCP Fendahl
As noted above, the ships still retain a significant advantage since they can neutralize cap more efficiently. Ships such as the curse can mitigate the Nosferatu equilibrium by spreading out the nosferatus and concentrate the neutralizers on a single target. If the fitting requirements on the neutralizers don't get adjusted in general, then we will most likely boost the fitting on these ships a bit since they have to be able to support neutralizers in order to function properly.


From page 33 of the dev blog. It took me a fair amount of time to find, as i said, CCP certainly don't appear to have spent a lot of time reading the comments or addressing them.

I guess i will park my amarr recons in my "museum to redundant ships" and wait for the next ship to get nerfed by an organisation that listens to whining noobs who want to blame the game mechanics when they lose a ship instead of the fact that they picked the wrong fight.

Damn right I'm upset.

kill unsight
Posted - 2007.08.25 11:08:00 - [1701]
 

The NOS change is wrong in my eyes, because nos is the only chance for a bs to get free on a frig attack.

The Scrambler and Webber will go off only when theres no cap left.

This means gankers+1:ganked-1 , thx again :(

BTW: if you would make fleet fights FASTER (more fps) you will have the same result to the econemy,
more ships get build, but fewer people get ****ed off.

--
Add a nice sig here.

General Paul
Atomic Heroes
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2007.08.25 13:49:00 - [1702]
 

As a caldari pilot who was training for the khanid AF/CS.. Im a little peeved I now have to train armour tanking skills...

Im slightly riled at being limited to HAM's (I have every other missile at specialisation 4)

Im downright ****ed that the Khanid ships have 5% to all missile types and Caldari have 5% to kinetic only..

Someone earlier mentioned the roles and description of the Khanid.. they now have crap shilding.. rockets that surpass Caldaries

Do the Caldari have a close range ship now? Or are they limited to fighting at upwards of 80KM > ?

AS for nosses.. a stacking penalty would have sufficed..

Roninwolfie
Posted - 2007.08.25 16:22:00 - [1703]
 

Is it just me or have some guys from SOE taken over ccp lol.

im seeing Similarities between how much thay care for there "paying customers" an how much SOE regarded theresEmbarassed

thay say there nerfing something hardcore an talk very little about it in the hopes it will just go away an when it doesn't they still ignore it an go ahead with the nerf like all is fine an well.

for those that don't know star wars galaxies had like 350k people playing it , an with all the nerfs it got over 3 years an there was a hell of a lot of them an 3 major revamps it now has like 40-60k left in it lol. i know its not a fair comparison but its how the down fall of a game starts.

i love eve an think its a great game.

The nos nerf is a no brainer , get rid of whats on test center tell the guy that came up with it to brain storm some more before he comes up with ideas like that an put 1 of these three options on test for us to try out,

#1 stacking penalty an tracking.

#2 sig radius of 400% per nos after 2 are fitted an the third nos will give 800% 4th 1600% , so mission runners with 1 aren't affected an a someone in a nos domi will have a bigger sig then a titan.

#3 make all ships have nos hard points, let amarr have 2 or more an the rest only one.

now them ideas that guys from this thread suggested are 1000 times better.

also are ccp going to nerf the bloodraiders an other rats that nos or is that coming l8ter , also has there been any testing to see how much extra lag this change is going to cause in major fleet battles an what not ?

I'm sorry if that came across as a flame Embarassed but its 2 am here Confused

just remember its never a bad thing to admit something isn't right an fix it before its too late , thats how you earn peoples trust an loyalty an they will always have faith you will do the right thing.Smile something SOE never understood Cool

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.08.25 18:59:00 - [1704]
 

The problem Devs are like STUPID LITTLE KIDS. They think out something, asking what u thinking, and if u don agree, than they ignoring u because this, but they even dont think about they can be wrong.

Pls devs try to be normal peoples and see if u make something wrong, or u r real so EXTREME STUPID?

Seymour Ancolater
Posted - 2007.08.26 02:16:00 - [1705]
 

Hi, I also think that a command ship has nothing to do in the first line, this should be the place for the assault ships or the field command ships.

I fly the damnation for about 1/2 a year and can tell you in advance that with its slow speed and the small range of the heavy assault missles I will certainly get outmaneuvered all the time !!!
So I think that the missle setup is a bad idea !

Gist Illuminatii
Posted - 2007.08.26 03:12:00 - [1706]
 

*sigh*

An Amarr pilot who is training up to use the Damnation so he can use heavy assault missiles... Oh and bought the curse so he could kinda maybe level out his opponent's cap whilst zeroing his own.

SephiriotH
LIGHTS 0UT
Rebellion Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.26 12:18:00 - [1707]
 

Edited by: SephiriotH on 26/08/2007 12:19:30
what will we have :
1. khanids will tank better than caldari. (they always did, but not it's even better)
2. khanids will do more dmg than caldari. (yeah, we are not using ONLY kinetic in pvp you know)
3. khanids will have faster lock than caldari. (they always did, but now the gape is just huge. somebody , plz enlight me - why the race which supposed to have the best sensors in game (caldari) have the most awkwardish ones? yeah, you hear me right , locking speed in most cases is MUCH MORE important than sensor strength.)

to summarise :
Amarrs have a great boost for pvp again. When Amarr pilots will have some skills into missiles - they will be better with missiles than Caldari , what an irony. (who cares about ability of long range missile combat? It only affects Battleship blob battles.)

Conclusion : I wish I knew better before klicking "Caldari" when I started eve...

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.08.26 13:48:00 - [1708]
 

Originally by: SephiriotH
Edited by: SephiriotH on 26/08/2007 12:19:30
what will we have :
1. khanids will tank better than caldari. (they always did, but not it's even better)
2. khanids will do more dmg than caldari. (yeah, we are not using ONLY kinetic in pvp you know)
3. khanids will have faster lock than caldari. (they always did, but now the gape is just huge. somebody , plz enlight me - why the race which supposed to have the best sensors in game (caldari) have the most awkwardish ones? yeah, you hear me right , locking speed in most cases is MUCH MORE important than sensor strength.)

to summarise :
Amarrs have a great boost for pvp again. When Amarr pilots will have some skills into missiles - they will be better with missiles than Caldari , what an irony. (who cares about ability of long range missile combat? It only affects Battleship blob battles.)

Conclusion : I wish I knew better before klicking "Caldari" when I started eve...



100% agree

5hadow 1
Posted - 2007.08.26 17:24:00 - [1709]
 

I think this is very stupid. Please correct me if I'm wrong but a Heavy Nos drains 150 from my cap but I only get 100 from the target ship. That gives me plus 50. A Heavy Neutralize drains 500 from my cap and his cap with no limit. But you can only drain a nos so the caps are equal. So why use a weapon that will only make you on even term with your target. The Nos didn't give you a big advantage but it still can drain a cap over time. So I guess everyone will be changing over to Neutralizer since CCP has chosen to Nerf another weapon due to newbee's and cry babies can't figure out the best way to brake a nos is ECM or dare I say TEAMWORK.

Tidas Andrommeda
We The People
Posted - 2007.08.26 17:52:00 - [1710]
 

Originally by: 5hadow 1
I think this is very stupid. Please correct me if I'm wrong but a Heavy Nos drains 150 from my cap but I only get 100 from the target ship. That gives me plus 50. A Heavy Neutralize drains 500 from my cap and his cap with no limit. But you can only drain a nos so the caps are equal. So why use a weapon that will only make you on even term with your target. The Nos didn't give you a big advantage but it still can drain a cap over time. So I guess everyone will be changing over to Neutralizer since CCP has chosen to Nerf another weapon due to newbee's and cry babies can't figure out the best way to brake a nos is ECM or dare I say TEAMWORK.


Nos does nothing to the users cap.

Nos was never meant to be a Neut as well.

This falls on deaf ears :(.


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