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Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.12 01:50:00 - [1621]
 

Edited by: Zaethiel on 12/08/2007 01:52:35
Originally by: Kaben
Edited by: Kaben on 11/08/2007 23:13:51
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is.


Exept it isn't. A dreadnaught is also a shipclass up from a BS and cannot really do anything vs them.

Ship are not balanced in eve by "the higher you get the bigger the solopwnpower becomes". All ships are more or less specialists with certain strengths and certain weaknesses.


So a friend of mine, who is spec'd amarr bs, yes I mean spec'd, he has rank 5 bs, 7mil sp in gunnery, alot in mechanics, armageddon tanked out got shot at by a phoenix, one volley and he had 2/3rds of his armor left. Guess he just got unlucky right? good thing he was close to a station before the second volley hit, although loosing a geddon isn't really to big of a loss, but the point is there. Did he have his tank on, no, but he was thinking the same thing you are, dreadnoughts shouldn't do that much damage to a bs, good lesson that was well learned.

Unless you mean a dread in seige mode, though I don't see why a dread would go into seige mode for bs's, unless they hads sensor damps.


#1 Phoenix is the only Dread that can actually directly attack a BS with succes. The rest just cant hit it.
#2 For the Phoanix to do decent damage to a BS it needs to be painted and the BS has to be webbed or sitting still.
#3 Your friends an idiot for letting a Phoenix shoot him let alone let one web and paint him and even dumber if he was sitting still at an undock point.
#4 The dread must be in siege which means your friend had 10 minutes to get a gang together to kill him.


Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.08.12 06:07:00 - [1622]
 

So when are the changes coming to the main server? I'd like to fly the sacrilege now please =P

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.08.12 12:50:00 - [1623]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is.


Exept it isn't. A dreadnaught is also a shipclass up from a BS and cannot really do anything vs them.

Ship are not balanced in eve by "the higher you get the bigger the solopwnpower becomes". All ships are more or less specialists with certain strengths and certain weaknesses.
Yes congrats on snipping the near entirety of my post, thus losing the message.

Yes, a Battleship should not, on average, lose 1 vs. 1 to a cruiser-sized platform, you have to bring more than one cruiser and then, you're talking about a fight - HAC plus Recon duo I keep mentioning that you keep ignoring.

The Dreadnaught example you brought up just further illustrates the point, it might not do much to the Battleship, but it's never ever going to lose 1 vs 1 to a Battleship - it shouldn't, it's a much bigger, slower, less mobile (immobile most of the time) target that attracts lots of fire - in short it has it's own host of vulnerabilities over the smaller class, and you can use the same logic as for the Recon vs. Battleship argument. Hence, why a Recon should never have it 'easy', or even 'moderate' trying to solo a Battleship (remember – talking normal balanced setups here with a competent Battleship pilot).

The Curse had it too good, now it doesn’t have it quite as good – bring a buddy in a Sacrilege if you’re going to seriously try to take down a competently flown Battleship, or be stubborn and try it solo with reduced odds of success.

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.08.12 13:57:00 - [1624]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is.


Exept it isn't. A dreadnaught is also a shipclass up from a BS and cannot really do anything vs them.

Ship are not balanced in eve by "the higher you get the bigger the solopwnpower becomes". All ships are more or less specialists with certain strengths and certain weaknesses.
Yes congrats on snipping the near entirety of my post, thus losing the message.

Yes, a Battleship should not, on average, lose 1 vs. 1 to a cruiser-sized platform, you have to bring more than one cruiser and then, you're talking about a fight - HAC plus Recon duo I keep mentioning that you keep ignoring.

The Dreadnaught example you brought up just further illustrates the point, it might not do much to the Battleship, but it's never ever going to lose 1 vs 1 to a Battleship - it shouldn't, it's a much bigger, slower, less mobile (immobile most of the time) target that attracts lots of fire - in short it has it's own host of vulnerabilities over the smaller class, and you can use the same logic as for the Recon vs. Battleship argument. Hence, why a Recon should never have it 'easy', or even 'moderate' trying to solo a Battleship (remember – talking normal balanced setups here with a competent Battleship pilot).

The Curse had it too good, now it doesn’t have it quite as good – bring a buddy in a Sacrilege if you’re going to seriously try to take down a competently flown Battleship, or be stubborn and try it solo with reduced odds of success.



Thats idiotic. Than nerf to hell the myrm because can kill a BS alone, and the artrate need to be completly removed from the game :P

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.12 14:28:00 - [1625]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Yes congrats on snipping the near entirety of my post, thus losing the message.

Yes, a Battleship should not, on average, lose 1 vs. 1 to a cruiser-sized platform, you have to bring more than one cruiser and then, you're talking about a fight - HAC plus Recon duo I keep mentioning that you keep ignoring.

The Dreadnaught example you brought up just further illustrates the point, it might not do much to the Battleship, but it's never ever going to lose 1 vs 1 to a Battleship - it shouldn't, it's a much bigger, slower, less mobile (immobile most of the time) target that attracts lots of fire - in short it has it's own host of vulnerabilities over the smaller class, and you can use the same logic as for the Recon vs. Battleship argument. Hence, why a Recon should never have it 'easy', or even 'moderate' trying to solo a Battleship (remember – talking normal balanced setups here with a competent Battleship pilot).

The Curse had it too good, now it doesn’t have it quite as good – bring a buddy in a Sacrilege if you’re going to seriously try to take down a competently flown Battleship, or be stubborn and try it solo with reduced odds of success.


Which message? Bigger = better? Because that is essentially all what you are saying.

To repeat myself, why? BSs are not more exepensive or skillintensive than t2 cruisers. The only argumentation you bring is "because they are battleships" like if that is some rule of nature.

Basically, you are only saying "It is so because I say it is", a.k.a. "hot air". You are stating your opinion and try to sell it as a rule.

Which it isn't. There are plenty of examples where a single smaller, more agile entity can alone kill a bigger, better armored and more powerful one, both ingame and in real life.

Real life examples would be a submarine vs a battleship or a anti-tank infantry against a battletank. Or ingame, a vaga, nanoishtar or nanocurse vs battleships.

The disadvantage of these entities is that they are specialized, there are not of much use outside the area they are good in. The eve examples do not work well vs multiple oponents and do not have a very good performance in gangs - unlike other ships, amongst them battleships.

I could with exactly the same argumentation (aka none) as you simply state that battleships should only work if they fly with an escort to defend it against smaller ships.

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.12 18:29:00 - [1626]
 

Edited by: Zaethiel on 12/08/2007 18:30:13
For the last god knows how many pages this thread has been rather offtopic with the whole blah blah this shouldnt be able to solo this blah blah Bull S. If Bigger = Better then no one would fly anything other than BS. The fact that a HAC or Recon can solo a crappy BS pilot makes the game a lot more interesting. Put that arguement to rest please.

Cant we just get back to *****ing about the MK2 and Nos changes?
It is the current thread topic and it really is a serious issue.

Dash Vanderhuge
Posted - 2007.08.12 18:45:00 - [1627]
 

Edited by: Dash Vanderhuge on 12/08/2007 18:48:27
I don't like the nosferatu change at all. Augmenting your own cap was most of the point of nosferatus, and draining the other guy's was a secondary, in my eyes. This change makes nos ineffective at both of those jobs, since it won't be able to drain much cap, and it won't reliably boost your own. Even if the developers are dead-set on those changes, CCP should at the very least consider adjusting the fitting requirements for energy neutralizers, as they are currently prohibitively high.


Edit: I also just recently got a character into a Curse/Pilgrim. The Pilgrim became less useful when the changes to ECM hit, since it lost most of its defensive capabilities. Now with nos being so severely nerfed, both the Curse and the Pilgrim will be much, much less useful. Please adjust them somehow to keep Amarr recons from being far and away the worst in the game.

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.12 19:45:00 - [1628]
 

Originally by: Dash Vanderhuge
Edited by: Dash Vanderhuge on 12/08/2007 18:48:27
I don't like the nosferatu change at all. Augmenting your own cap was most of the point of nosferatus, and draining the other guy's was a secondary, in my eyes. This change makes nos ineffective at both of those jobs, since it won't be able to drain much cap, and it won't reliably boost your own. Even if the developers are dead-set on those changes, CCP should at the very least consider adjusting the fitting requirements for energy neutralizers, as they are currently prohibitively high.


Edit: I also just recently got a character into a Curse/Pilgrim. The Pilgrim became less useful when the changes to ECM hit, since it lost most of its defensive capabilities. Now with nos being so severely nerfed, both the Curse and the Pilgrim will be much, much less useful. Please adjust them somehow to keep Amarr recons from being far and away the worst in the game.


Funny thing is the Curse was really the only Amarr ship best in its class. Every other class is taken by Gallente and Mimataar. After the Nos change Gallente will be back to having the best recon.

These Nos changes are lame. So many better ways to nerf Nos rather than completely anihilate its usefullness.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2007.08.12 20:01:00 - [1629]
 

Experiment on Damnation

Skills -
Gunnery V
Missile Launcher V
Medium Energy Turret IV
Heavy Assault Missile IV
Motion Prediction IV
Target Navigation Prediction IV
Rapid Fire IV
Rapid Launch IV
Surgical Strike IV
Ware-head Upgrades IV

These skills (Gunnery First then Missiles) are the skills that make each weapon equal in terms of skills. I have these skills on the test server.

Setup, 5 HAM Missiles and Terror Missile, 2 Heavy Pulse Lasers and Multifreq Lens

Damage report
Torrent Missile damage on a Serpentis Watchman - Low Point - 59.7 damage
Torrent Missile damage on a Serpentis Watchman - High Point - 62.2 damage
Heavy Pulse Laser damage on a Serpentis Watchman - Low Point - 49.4 damage (Barley scratch shot)
Heavy Pulse Laser damage on a Serpentis Watchman - High Point - 75.1 damage (Wasn't any "type" of shot)

Log of shots
[ 2007.08.12 19:09:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Terror Assault Missile hits Serpentis Watchman, doing 59.7 damage.
[ 2007.08.12 19:09:01 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Terror Assault Missile hits Serpentis Watchman, doing 62.2 damage.
[ 2007.08.12 19:08:59 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Heavy Pulse Laser I barely scratches Serpentis Watchman, causing 49.4 damage.
[ 2007.08.12 19:08:59 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Heavy Pulse Laser I hits Serpentis Watchman, doing 75.1 damage.

It's a shame I didn't get a wreaking shot.... Sad

Pulse Laser stats OUT OF THE BOX -
Rate of fire, 5.25 Seconds
Range - 4000m Falloff, 10,000 Optimal.
- Multifeq lens 50% reduction.
- Effective range - 2,000m Falloff, 5,000m Optimal - 7,000m

Heavy Assault Launcher OUT OF THE BOX - Rate of fire 8.00 Seconds
Range - 2,250m/s for 3 seconds. 6,750m

Pulse lasers Shoot faster, do more damage have greater range.. Why in EVE would anyone want to give up SO MUCH... it's ridiculous.

Leave us have our Turrets at least! Don't remove any Turret slots PLEASE....

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.12 20:30:00 - [1630]
 

If im not mistaken Serpentis are weak vs Therm and Kin. You used EM missiles with EM + Therm Crystals.

Try shooting an object with 0 resists and see what they do. All in all the new changes to MK2 wih HAMs are worse off than if they left them alone. Without being able to armor tank + fit damage mods Caldari ships will be extremely more effective DPS wise than the new MK2 ships.
I want my Lasers back too.

Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2007.08.13 00:05:00 - [1631]
 

Actually, they used terror missiles according to the quotes, and those are kinetic. I don't know why they said torrent above that. I'm guessing the log quotes are more accurate.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.13 01:33:00 - [1632]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 01:34:53
Originally by: SencneS
Pulse lasers Shoot faster, do more damage have greater range.. Why in EVE would anyone want to give up SO MUCH... it's ridiculous.


Actually HAMs have a greater range, you ignore that you get a FAR greater range bonus from skills for missiles compared to turrets. You get effective ranges of 13k for t1 and 60k for t2 jav hams.
The HAM damnation has below 12k worse dps than a (current with +50% range bonus) pulse damnation, but above that better dps. And it can also boost that dps more efficiently with damage mods.

Originally by: Zaethiel
Without being able to armor tank + fit damage mods Caldari ships will be extremely more effective DPS wise than the new MK2 ships.


Not a fair comparsion.

A cerb has after MWD, scram & injector 2 free slots free for a tank.
A sacriledge has after 3 damagemods also 2 free slots for a tank.

After those modules the cerb has 1 free low for a damage control or PDU and the damnation 1 feee med for a web or cap recharger.

Althogether I would say they are pretty well balanced vs each other.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2007.08.13 04:44:00 - [1633]
 

Edited by: SencneS on 13/08/2007 04:44:51
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 01:34:53
Originally by: SencneS
Pulse lasers Shoot faster, do more damage have greater range.. Why in EVE would anyone want to give up SO MUCH... it's ridiculous.


Actually HAMs have a greater range, you ignore that you get a FAR greater range bonus from skills for missiles compared to turrets. You get effective ranges of 13k for t1 and 60k for t2 jav hams.
The HAM damnation has below 12k worse dps than a (current with +50% range bonus) pulse damnation, but above that better dps. And it can also boost that dps more efficiently with damage mods.




LOL thank you for this because I wanted to wait until someone posted about the Almighty range of the HAM missile with skills.

T1 missiles the Range is 13,500 with level IV skills (I have these as well)

What is a real joke here and the reason why I wanted to wait is because I can fit... HEAVY BEAM LASERS!

Out of the box stats for Heavy Beam Laser
Rate of Fire - 6.000s
Optimal Range - 20,000 Shocked
Fall off - 8,000 Shocked
With skills it's range is - 33,600, Using Multifreq Lenses - 14,800

That's a good 1km longer then a HAM Missile with skills. So it shoots faster then HAM, has longer Range then HAM (This is not including the Current Damnation's 5% bonus to Optimal Range per level) It can actually shoot up-wards of 70km without mods and rigs. (Radio M Lenses)

Still has higher DPS then a HAM.

So thank you Aramendel for pointing out the superior range of the HAM missile Laughing

Come again!Twisted Evil

Edit:- Spelling

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2007.08.13 07:20:00 - [1634]
 

Yes, and you'll be doing oh so much damage with those Radio M crystals. . . Javelin sacrifices a good bit less DPS.

Damnation may be kinda borked, but the Sac is actually improved in terms of DPS over its old version.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.13 09:11:00 - [1635]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 09:13:44
Originally by: SencneS
That's a good 1km longer then a HAM Missile with skills. So it shoots faster then HAM, has longer Range then HAM (This is not including the Current Damnation's 5% bonus to Optimal Range per level) It can actually shoot up-wards of 70km without mods and rigs. (Radio M Lenses)

Still has higher DPS then a HAM.


Actually, nope.

A HAM with the 25% damage bonus of the damnation and jav hams does 32.4 dps per launcher with t2 launchers and maxed skills (spec at 4). 38 dps with t1 ammo.
A heavy beam does with conflag 36.2 dps.

85 (jav hams) * 1.25 (HAM skill bonus) * 1.25 (damnation bonus) * 1.1 (warhead upgrades) /6.4 (t2 ROF) /0.9 (missle launcher op) /0.85 (rapid launch) / 0.92 (HAM spec 4) -> 32.4

3.6 (HB damage mod) * 28 (gleam) * 1.25 (med laser) * 1.15 (surgical) * 1.08 (spec at 4) / 6 (ROF) /0.9 (gunnery) / 0.8 (rapid fire) -> 36.2.

Heavy beams outdamage HAMs only between 13-16k. And this is WITH the range bonus. Which is 50% btw, not 25%. The description is wrong, if you fit lasers on it you get a 50% rangebonus on them.
Before that t1 HAMs outdamage HB with gleam and above that jav HAMS do the same since its falloff will have reduced its dps. They only start to outdamage them again past 60k. And then you can use HEAVY MISSILE LAUNCHERS. Yes, you'll loose the HAM damage bonus. But HM still outdamage beams without it at that range.

------------

That being said, the damnation HAS problems, but not because of the HAMs. But because of its grid reduction. It is nice and fine if you want to use it as weapon plattform, but if you use it as gang bonus ship it runs into problems due to warfare links using 200 grid.

Rinaldo Titano
Caldari
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2007.08.13 12:34:00 - [1636]
 

Maybe is possible to get an answer on a 55 page thread from devs pls?
If u think to change something or what conclusion u made from the response, etc. Pls communicate with your customers

Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
Posted - 2007.08.13 15:37:00 - [1637]
 

Does anyone know when the patch is coming out that includes the NOS+Khanid changes?

Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
Posted - 2007.08.13 17:21:00 - [1638]
 

Can you hurry up and release the patch? I'd like to enjoy PvP a bit for once. Razz

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.13 18:02:00 - [1639]
 

Originally by: Cyan Nuevo
Can you hurry up and release the patch? I'd like to enjoy PvP a bit for once. Razz


Your sig says your an amarr pilot...
Itd be better if they shot the Dev that came up with the idea and never release the patch.
1/2 of the Amarr ships are getting downgraded and 2 of the best Amarr ships are geting nerfed beyond uselessness.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.13 18:07:00 - [1640]
 

Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Does anyone know when the patch is coming out that includes the NOS+Khanid changes?


The dev blog about the tourney states it will be at the 31st august partly because they want to do it *after* the rev 2.2 patch (which is the one with the current changes).

So its sometime between now and the 30th. I would guess either on the 21st or 28th.

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.13 21:02:00 - [1641]
 

The new Damnation Stats and Boni are awesome. Just awesome. More Grid then i ever can spend on Lasers, more Hitpoints then... oh. forget it. its all balanced now!

shhhhh...

Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
Posted - 2007.08.14 04:48:00 - [1642]
 

Yep, I'm Amarr and I'm really looking forward to this patch for two reasons: Khanid changes and nos nerf.

Imagine that!

Bellac
Posted - 2007.08.14 09:03:00 - [1643]
 

Edited by: Bellac on 14/08/2007 10:09:49
Edited by: Bellac on 14/08/2007 09:38:24
Edited by: Bellac on 14/08/2007 09:16:50
hmmm - well I have to say I am not sure about the cambat logic of the damnation bonuses - but I wonder if anyone with more experience could offer some feedback.

I dont see the logic behind having a really big slow ship, and giving it a bonus to missiles with a 14km range. OK it can withstand the pounding, but surely will never be able to keep in range of any target long enough to do any sustained damage. If the bonus is supposed to be heavy/assault missiles then thats really no problem but if its assault only I really do not see this working out at all, and would rather stick with lasers.

Edit
And looking at the info on the EvE fitting tool (if its accurate) there is just no where near enough powergrid either, but if on the other hand you fit heavy launchers instead with the lower powergrid everything is just dandy, except their is no bonus. A bad bonus is worse than no bonus at all IMHO and thats all that needs to be changed on Amarr ships in general to make them all OK.

And as for reducing the powergrid by 200 - well that just makes it difficult to fit 3 gang modules if thats the way you want to go with your setup.

Alot of problems on the horizon for this one - expect prices to tumble

Mr Smooth
Posted - 2007.08.14 11:47:00 - [1644]
 

So, having heard nothing from CCP for ages on this thread, is it safe to assume that the patch will be going ahead as initially stated at some time this month?

If that is the case, taking into account all of the not-so-positive-comments in this now rather large thread, can i just ask why CCP bothered with this dev-blog? Were they expecting that everyone would say "yes CCP that is a great idea" and "please go ahead and shaft the Amarr Recons"? It would appear that CCP is going to do what it wants anyway and of course, EVE being their game, they have every right to do so. What upsets me is the fact that they "pretend" to consult with their paying customers and then totally disregard the feedback that has been offered in good faith.

Come on CCP at least let us know what is happening with these proposed changes and hopefully prove me wrong.

Borasao
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.08.14 13:09:00 - [1645]
 

Originally by: Bellac

I dont see the logic behind having a really big slow ship, and giving it a bonus to missiles with a 14km range. OK it can withstand the pounding, but surely will never be able to keep in range of any target long enough to do any sustained damage.


No tacklers in your gang to hold the target down for you? It's a "fleet" command ship, after all Wink


Quote:
And as for reducing the powergrid by 200 - well that just makes it difficult to fit 3 gang modules if thats the way you want to go with your setup.


Yup... fitting 3x gang modules on the current Damnation makes me compromise a lot... dropping the grid is going to make it tough.

The devs said they were looking into things a while back... it would be nice to hear what they've found and any new ideas they may have, modified changes, etc.

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:00:00 - [1646]
 

Originally by: Mr Smooth
So, having heard nothing from CCP for ages on this thread, is it safe to assume that the patch will be going ahead as initially stated at some time this month?

If that is the case, taking into account all of the not-so-positive-comments in this now rather large thread, can i just ask why CCP bothered with this dev-blog? Were they expecting that everyone would say "yes CCP that is a great idea" and "please go ahead and shaft the Amarr Recons"? It would appear that CCP is going to do what it wants anyway and of course, EVE being their game, they have every right to do so. What upsets me is the fact that they "pretend" to consult with their paying customers and then totally disregard the feedback that has been offered in good faith.

Come on CCP at least let us know what is happening with these proposed changes and hopefully prove me wrong.


R U surpriced? I never saw other response from CCP. They make something. lot of peoples disagree, and they do it even than. They are like small childs. I would have right and right and right.......

U r just a paymachine, u dont have the rights communicating with them or make suggestions. U should just pay

Wyliee
Taurus Inc
THE KLINGONS
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:45:00 - [1647]
 

my guess is that these changes are going to go though no mater what.

i fly amarr, and in alot of cases i think the noz fixes wil help most ammar ships, but i would like to suggest some changes.

curse = stay the same..it is still usable with the noz nerf.

pilgrim = needs a powergrid increase so we can now fit medium cap boosters to keep the neuts alive.

zealot = loose the utility slot in high..im never gonna want to put a noz or neut there.. instead let it fit another lazer

Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)


Wizzkidy
Posted - 2007.08.14 15:56:00 - [1648]
 

Originally by: Wyliee
Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)


This is exactly what they are doing, No one liked HAM's there DMG is quite poor and there range is poor also, this is WHY no one used them even the caldari.

Yet Amarr are now forced to use HAM's cause we get a bonus even though HAM's suck in general - Devs - "I know what we will do, no one likes HAM's they where are new toy, since no one likes them lets force a race to use them - I have got it! Amarr they always complain about being gimped we will give them HAM's to use and make our new toy to be put in use" - even though HAM's are POOR POOR POOR.

Nice one CCP - good work

Borasao
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.08.14 19:23:00 - [1649]
 

Originally by: Wyliee
Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)



You do realize that if they open the bonus up for HML and HAML, the damage bonus will be limited to EM only, right? The HAML only bonus (as it is currently proposed) is a bonus to *all* damage types, which is kind of nice and should be obvious as to why. Plus, the dev post said that they'd revisit HAMs at some point to make them 'better' somehow.

Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
Posted - 2007.08.14 19:25:00 - [1650]
 

Not like it hasn't been pointed out many times already, but HAMs with the new Khanid ships' damage bonus are actually pretty nice...


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