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LvxOccvlta
Posted - 2007.08.09 19:47:00 - [1591]
 

Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda

Ok. I'll take it seriously now.

The problem with the curse, and really nos in general, was that you could completely kill someones cap with little to no effect on yourself (sacrificing DPS is a BS excuse especially since the main problems are with drone boats where the majority of DPS comes from drones)

The pilgrim is a recon ship and still does that well, with the cyno bonus etc.
As for solo pvp etc. Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser imo (unless the BC+ has terrible fittings) and were meant to play more of a support role. This is less true for the Curse, but taking on well fit BSs is, well, BS.

I'm sorry all your time and money was spent training for something that will now be nerfed, but honestly now you're more in line with the other races and no longer a solo pwnmobile.

Any other points you'd like to bring up? I'll be happy to reasonably respond to them without sarcasm etc.

cheers

+1 intelligence


Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS?

Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that?

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.09 21:36:00 - [1592]
 

Originally by: LvxOccvlta
Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda

Ok. I'll take it seriously now.

The problem with the curse, and really nos in general, was that you could completely kill someones cap with little to no effect on yourself (sacrificing DPS is a BS excuse especially since the main problems are with drone boats where the majority of DPS comes from drones)

The pilgrim is a recon ship and still does that well, with the cyno bonus etc.
As for solo pvp etc. Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser imo (unless the BC+ has terrible fittings) and were meant to play more of a support role. This is less true for the Curse, but taking on well fit BSs is, well, BS.

I'm sorry all your time and money was spent training for something that will now be nerfed, but honestly now you're more in line with the other races and no longer a solo pwnmobile.

Any other points you'd like to bring up? I'll be happy to reasonably respond to them without sarcasm etc.

cheers

+1 intelligence


Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS?

Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that?


You can properly fly a bs in 4 weeks on a noob account? Tell me how, I've got 4 weeks to spare.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.09 22:23:00 - [1593]
 

Originally by: LvxOccvlta


Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS?

Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that?

8 months? What did you spend the time on? This "nerf" effected ONE module of which its largest size you could use your SECOND day of life in EvE. So the ship is worthless because of a module that took 2 days of training?

Kindof screams the module was over-powered if it takes 2 days to train yet its alteration completely destroys a command ship. Maybe it should have taken 100+ days to use Large NOS, since it takes that long to use BS-sized T2 weapons....

Pinpisa Jormao
Posted - 2007.08.10 00:20:00 - [1594]
 

Just popping in to say that if the NOS nerf goes through, ... it won't go through without serious Pilgrim boost. (or a lot of whine)

Pinpisa Jormao
Posted - 2007.08.10 00:24:00 - [1595]
 

Also

The more missile ships and less turret ships is a tracking disruptor nerf. So it's a Curse/Pilgrim nerf. This needs to be compensated by giving Amarr point laser defense which destroys all Caldari missiles. Laughing

WhiteTigerGod
Posted - 2007.08.10 00:55:00 - [1596]
 

OK this idea for NOS is total trash. It completely nurfs all ships that sue NOS and ust makes ships like NOS Domis and Curses total crap. No1 know who has read it has found any way to make the new NOS work with these ships and isnt worth it. I know at least 5 ppl right now who are going to sell their char if this patch goes through due to the fact their ship is pointless to fly now, and one of them is me. I implore you DONT DO IT PLZ!!!

wicker man
Wicked City Excavations
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2007.08.10 01:03:00 - [1597]
 

PLZ PLZ DONT KILL the Curse that ive worked so hard for, dont kill my myr, domi, or how bout my WHOLE AMARR RACE!
I do agree that nos might be a bit overpowered but this patch would make some ships total trash, can i get these SP points for amarr ships back somehow in minmatar ships now? just plz take some other way to go about nerfing the nos.

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.08.10 01:53:00 - [1598]
 

Originally by: Lee KyongAh

As for the Khanid changes well wonder why caldari don't use these missiles ???

Just a guess they are inferrior to standard missiles ...

Well I am gona try them out anyway



Once upon a time there where Ravens using 2x MWDs. CCP realised this must not be, so they nerfed Caldaris Mass and Agility. Then they Nerfed the 2x MWD.

Today Caldari are a slow race, often compared to station batteries.

With no speed there is no running away, and low speed with shield tank means no close combat becouse of Bad tackling and being kited. Therefor HAMs are not used much by Caldari Pilots.

Also HAMs with high PG usage doesnt fit well on Caldari Missile Boats with low PG.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2007.08.10 02:17:00 - [1599]
 

Khanid ships needed to be changed they never made alot of sense to me, kind of caught in a limbo but forcing amarr to use the missiles no one else uses and they don't have the skills for is laaaame.

Also to fix nos give ships nos slots, 1 for most ships, 2 for battleships, and 4 or 5 for the ships with a nos speciality, would solve 99% of the problems people have with nos and wouldn't ruin it.

Kaben
Posted - 2007.08.10 07:30:00 - [1600]
 

Originally by: LvxOccvlta
Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda

Ok. I'll take it seriously now.

The problem with the curse, and really nos in general, was that you could completely kill someones cap with little to no effect on yourself (sacrificing DPS is a BS excuse especially since the main problems are with drone boats where the majority of DPS comes from drones)

The pilgrim is a recon ship and still does that well, with the cyno bonus etc.
As for solo pvp etc. Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser imo (unless the BC+ has terrible fittings) and were meant to play more of a support role. This is less true for the Curse, but taking on well fit BSs is, well, BS.

I'm sorry all your time and money was spent training for something that will now be nerfed, but honestly now you're more in line with the other races and no longer a solo pwnmobile.

Any other points you'd like to bring up? I'll be happy to reasonably respond to them without sarcasm etc.

cheers

+1 intelligence


Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS?

Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that?


Anti-support support, this doesn't mean, bs killer of doom, maybe a 4 week old noob bs pilot, but a pilot who has spec'd in bs's, ummm, no. Better bring some backup for that one, but then again I don't see a whole lot of change, curse will still be a nice ship, but at least now it will be used in squads instead of soloing. As far as pilgrim goes, it's fine, it's a force recon, not combat. Read description that is on all force recons, it's purpose is to infiltrate, reconisance and capitol ship deployment, not combat recon. Though I do like that the devs are changing faction specific nos boats to include neuts.

As a gallente pilot, yes this hurts, but doesn't make my ships junk, just means I might actually fit guns to it (with at least 1 neut of course)

As far as the new khanid. I could post something on this, but I know after I do not many people will read it save for the ones that are liking the change. Personally I don't fly amarr and the new sac is looking sweet. Why because I fly Caldari and Gallente, sac is awesome. Don't say blah blah blah I shouldn't have to learn split weapon systems. I have an answer, don't and don't use khanid ships. If I don't want to learn drone skills then I don't learn them or fly the drone boats for gallente. If I don't want to learn rails for certain caldari ships then I don't learn it and don't use the rail boats.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.08.10 09:25:00 - [1601]
 

Originally by: ***er
Once upon a time there where Ravens using 2x MWDs. CCP realised this must not be, so they nerfed Caldaris Mass and Agility. Then they Nerfed the 2x MWD.

Today Caldari are a slow race, often compared to station batteries.



Caldari boats already had a lower speed and higher mass before the dual MWD ravens, they have them since the beggining. It's to give gallente ships a decent chance of catching them.

Design-wise, if one race has both the long-range racial trait and the fastest one, how are you supposed to beat them? That's why caldari boats are generally the slowest (and also why they have the longest base sensor range).

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2007.08.10 09:32:00 - [1602]
 

Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 10/08/2007 09:43:50
Originally by: Darius Amir
I know if this has been said before but I have a few issues with the new ships (Sacrilege). I'm not going to go on and on about how I have to give up my 5.1 million sp in gunnery and train up missiles if I want to keep flying my ship that I have been using up to now.


I have a few questions:

1) Speed: Why is this ship slower then Zealot? The Sacrilege is required to use close range weapons (Heavy Assault Missiles) while the Zealot can choose between long and short ranges (Beam and Pulse Lasers)? I think the ship needs to go faster then the Zealot but slower then the Vagabond.

2) Low Slots: Why does this ship have 5 low slots while the Maller has 6 and the Zealot has 7? If the Sacrilege is supposed to be a heavy tanker why does it have so few low slots? No other HAC has less low/mid/high slots then its base model. Why does the Sacrilege? This ship needs at least as many low slots as its base model, but I feel it needs 7 lows if it is supposed to be the tanking pure close range HAC.

3) Weapons: Why did the Sacrilege become a pure missile platform all of a sudden? Again no other HAC has its main weapons change so drastically from base to HAC level. A Vexor (drone boat) becomes an Ishtar (drone boat); A Caracal (Missile Boat) becomes a Cerberus (Missile Boat), and so on, and so on.

I know none of this will probably even get looked at by a Dev, but I had to say something. I feel like I have wasted a lot of time training Amarr. I know that they said they were going to fix lasers but a lot of us have been waiting for them to fix lasers for a long time and then we get this change?


1. Dunno why its slower than a Zealot, but it just got a lot faster and considerably lighter than it used to be. It's much faster than the Caldari missile platforms, which means it can actually get in range to use its HAMs. Either way, it's faster than most of the opposing cruiser force, including the poor (even shorter ranged) Deimos.

2. Take a look at its ungodly tanking bonuses. It's got the Amarrian T2 armor resists, plus 25%. Effectively another EANM II with maxed skills, and that bonus isn't stacking nerfed.

The Zealot might be able to fit a tougher tank by using all its lows for it, but the stacking penalties will probably swing the tide in the Sac's favor. The built in EANM definitely gives it a large edge over the Maller, as does its huge bonuses to Exp/Kin resists, armor's traditional holes.

Add in 33% more cap/second (25% to cap recharge equates to that) and no cap spent on weapons fire, and all that goes to the MWD and the tank.

Edit: Ran the Numbers in Quickfit.
Sac w/Thermic Hardener II, 3x EANM II 84.9/92.5/85.4/89.0
Zealot w/2x Thermic II, Kinetic II, EM II and 2x EANM II: 89.4/88.26/90.1/91.0
Maller w/Exp II/Kin II/Thermic II/2x EANM II 82.4/84.2/85.1/87.1

Tanks are quite comparable, but the Sac will have more midslots to make use of and more cap. Also, using only 4 slots including MAR II, the Sac will have a far superior tank compared to the other two.

3. They decided to go with Armor Tanking Missile Spammers as opposed to Shield Tanking Laser Boats. It's a little wierd, but it avoids the usual complications with a split weapons system. Better a focused (perhaps overly specialized) ship than one that lacks direction entirely. Even gets better DPS on cruiser-size targets and above with this change. Ran the numbers a few pages back.

I gotta say, I would hate Shield Tanking Laser Boats, you end up with the worst problems of Amarrian lasers combined with all the reasons that Caldari don't pvp (can't tank and tackle). And both because it shield tanks and because it's Amarr, it would be very CPU gimped.

This is NOT the 'Amarr Boost' or the 'Laser Boost'. They're still working on that, bit by bit. Someone a few hundred posts back called it the 'Khanid Unsuckification'. I would call it the 'Khanid Specialization'.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.10 09:50:00 - [1603]
 

Originally by: Kaben
anti-support support, this doesn't mean, bs killer of doom, maybe a 4 week old noob bs pilot, but a pilot who has spec'd in bs's, ummm, no. Better bring some backup for that one,...


So a BS can be only countered by other BS and can also counter a numerous amount of other ships but if other ships can do the same it is "wrong"? Yeah, right.

Quote:
but then again I don't see a whole lot of change, curse will still be a nice ship, but at least now it will be used in squads instead of soloing.


The problem with the curse is that it is not good in med+ sized gangs. The other recons are. Its limited gang usability was balanced by its increased solo usability.

Quote:
As far as pilgrim goes, it's fine, it's a force recon, not combat. Read description that is on all force recons, it's purpose is to infiltrate, reconisance and capitol ship deployment, not combat recon.


And it has dps boni because....? Force recons have a combat role. Having a reconnaissance role does not exclude that. Its like saying that BS should only be good for fleet combat.
Their description says that they are weaker there than combat recons, not useless.

Kaben
Posted - 2007.08.10 10:12:00 - [1604]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Kaben
anti-support support, this doesn't mean, bs killer of doom, maybe a 4 week old noob bs pilot, but a pilot who has spec'd in bs's, ummm, no. Better bring some backup for that one,...


So a BS can be only countered by other BS and can also counter a numerous amount of other ships but if other ships can do the same it is "wrong"? Yeah, right.

Quote:
but then again I don't see a whole lot of change, curse will still be a nice ship, but at least now it will be used in squads instead of soloing.


The problem with the curse is that it is not good in med+ sized gangs. The other recons are. Its limited gang usability was balanced by its increased solo usability.

Quote:
As far as pilgrim goes, it's fine, it's a force recon, not combat. Read description that is on all force recons, it's purpose is to infiltrate, reconisance and capitol ship deployment, not combat recon.


And it has dps boni because....? Force recons have a combat role. Having a reconnaissance role does not exclude that. Its like saying that BS should only be good for fleet combat.
Their description says that they are weaker there than combat recons, not useless.


1: No a bs shouldn't only be counterable by a bs, but these are anti supports supports, not uber killer.

2: not good in med sized gangs, strange how I always see it in med sized gangs, oh well, the ones doing it must be idiots. The prob is it can solo, and not just good, it can solo quite well compared to others in its class and not even quite well, extremely well. btw completely depleting your enemys cap in a gang isn't helpful to the gang. IDK about that, I would think this is a very helpful tactic for the gang. especially when going against super tanked ships in which cap is keeping it alive. BTW I have friends that use curse, they have said it is still viable in solo pvp with nos change.

3: saying what you just said states that bs's should be used in frig killing. BTW where does it state in bs description that its only a fleet ship, I didn't see this anywhere. Read the description in force recons. Or better yet I'll post it for visability.

Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships.

where is the part that says it's a combat vessle? I see lots of stuff in here more designed around logistics than combat. Now lets look at combat recon shall we?

Built to represent the last word in electronic warfare, combat recon ships have onboard facilities designed to maximize the effectiveness of electronic countermeasure modules of all kinds. Filling a role next to their class counterpart, the heavy assault ship, combat recon ships are the state of the art when it comes to anti-support support. They are also devastating adversaries in smaller skirmishes, possessing strong defensive capabilities in addition to their electronic superiority.

Look at that, lots of combat related stuf***e in there.


Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.10 14:33:00 - [1605]
 

Originally by: Kaben
1: No a bs shouldn't only be counterable by a bs, but these are anti supports supports, not uber killer.


Exept the ship falvour text in nothing which is relyable and quite often completely wrong.

Take for example the text of the damnation:

The Khanid Kingdom’s ships possess the most advanced shield generators available outside Caldari space, as well as fairly robust electronics systems. Their armor and hull, however, are rather weak and hard to modify.

This is on the command ship with the WORST shield of all and the BEST armortank.

Or, the myrmidon, the tier 2 BC which has the HIGHEST dps of all of them:

Worried that their hot-shot pilots would burn brightly in their eagerness to engage the enemy, the Federation Navy created a ship that encourages caution over foolhardiness. A hardier version of its counterpart, the Myrmidon is a ship designed to persist in battle...

Quote:
2: not good in med sized gangs, strange how I always see it in med sized gangs, oh well, the ones doing it must be idiots. The prob is it can solo, and not just good, it can solo quite well compared to others in its class and not even quite well, extremely well.


Yes, and in larger gangs it sucks compared to others in its class, and it sucks quite a lot.

Its energy warfare ability is pointless when targets die before they run out of cap. Its EW capabilities are suppar to the gallente and caldari recons. Minamatar recons are better speed gang counters. Gallente and minmatar recons have better dps.

Better solo performance <-> worse fleet performance.

Quote:
3: saying what you just said states that bs's should be used in frig killing.


It doesn't. They can however be used quite well for cruiser killing. But a cruiser killing a BS cannot be allowed according to your reasoning.

Quote:
Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships.

where is the part that says it's a combat vessle? I see lots of stuff in here more designed around logistics than combat.


Where is the part it says it doesn't? It shows you one *role* of it. it does not tell you thats the *only* thing they can do.
Guess what all force recons but the falcon have? A damage bonus. Why do you think they have it? Obviously because they are logistics based, right? Rolling Eyes

Your problem is that you are looking at the falvor text not on the ship bonuses and stats. Its like looking at the advertising of something instead looking at what it DOES.

Yulai Consulting
Posted - 2007.08.10 14:51:00 - [1606]
 

I just hope the Retrib will have one more mid slot for those amarr that wont play with the missile boat...

Richard Masterson
Virulence.
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.08.10 18:52:00 - [1607]
 

Just want to point out some problems that I see with the Khanid Mk II changes; no whining here. . .

Malediction:
Max targeting range - 18500m*(1.25)=23125m
I have a problem with the "tackler" variety of interceptor not even being able to use a 24km scram to the fullest extent. Yes, realistically you would not be able to maintain that distance, but you should be able to fly at the edge of the envelope without worry of losing your lock.
5% bonus to rocket damage per FF level
All well and good when you are under 10km from the target, but it is considered terrible practice to fly within 10 km of a ship that you are tackling, for fear of being webbed. While a pilot doesn't HAVE to fit rockets, they are losing their bonus if they fit standards. Even if they do fit rockets, they will realistically do no damage, because they will always fly out of range. Please consider a dual rocket/standard missile bonus.

Vengeance:
5% bonus to rocket damage per Amarr FF level
If this ship is to not field beam lasers or standard missiles (thus extending its range), I would suggest a speed bonus in order to allow it to close within rocket range. OR, possibly give it a MWD cap bonus a-la Thorax, instead of the cap recharge bonus.

Sacrilege:
Again, not fast enough to dictate range.


I only fly the Malediction, but I can tell you that if these changes go through as-is, I'd rather go back to flying a Stiletto. Oodles of lock range and CPU make for more versatility.




SouthernComfort45
Posted - 2007.08.10 21:56:00 - [1608]
 

Wow, it's good to see that the intended Amarr buff was coupled with a complete nerf of the only good Amarr ships, the Curse and Pilgrim. Great job CCP, maybe now you could reduce cap usage of lasers, you know, a real improvement to Amarr ships, instead of mildly nerfing nos domi/nos myrm setups while completely destroying the Amarr recon ships. Gallente pilots will adapt, being that their ships have good dps from blasters and drones, but their won't be an easy adaptation for the Curse/Pilgrim. As for the missile setups on Khanid ships, I'm intrigued, except for the fact that I have almost no missile skills.

vile56
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2007.08.10 22:43:00 - [1609]
 

mabey change talismans to amount able to drain?

PAcifisti
Rionnag Alba
Posted - 2007.08.10 23:17:00 - [1610]
 

Some people seem to forget that even HAM's have a long range t2 version that go easily to 50km and above with good supports. Ofc they come with lower dmg but isn't that how EVE works anyways? More range = less dmg.

I wouldn't whine for rangebonuses since I would dump the rangebonuses on caldari ships for a simple all dmg bonus on missileships (just like the ones you're getting soon). Goddamn kinetic, the highest baseresistances are always in kinetic and it has to be the "natural" dmg of caldari Confused

As a caldari pilot I welcome the nosnerf, now our shieldtanked and cap dependant ships might actually do something as they wont be nossed empty straight away. Curse and pilgrim will find their own place as they where way too overpowered before ( what other recon could take and kill bs in 1 vs 1 ? rook / falcon? lawl dps. Lachesis / arazu? perhaps with damps and long range scram if you are faster than your target, will take insanely long time though. Huginn / rapier? Hardly )

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.08.11 08:31:00 - [1611]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Kaben
anti-support support, this doesn't mean, bs killer of doom, maybe a 4 week old noob bs pilot, but a pilot who has spec'd in bs's, ummm, no. Better bring some backup for that one,...


So a BS can be only countered by other BS and can also counter a numerous amount of other ships but if other ships can do the same it is "wrong"? Yeah, right.

Come on mate you know better than that...Yes, a Battleship should only be counterable by another Battleship or something larger in solo combat.

Team that Curse up with say a Zealot and you have a good fight on your hands vs. a solo (not some noob NPC'er) Battleship.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.08.11 08:42:00 - [1612]
 

Originally by: Wyliee
for all of you that complain that a force recon shouldnt be able to solo kill a battleship - why the hell not?

takes a lot longer to learn to use and much more skill points.


I really don't buy that.

Sure you see 3 month old characters in Battleships, but to seriously solo in one (as you are referring to with the force recon) you need a good year + of training.

Hell, it's taken me two years of dedicated training to perfect one particular setup (Blasterthron), after 3.5 years there are still skills I can train further if I wanted to improve a Railgun setup/EW and I haven't even begun to branch out into Tech 2 ships or considered cross-training for other races ships...

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.11 09:15:00 - [1613]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Come on mate you know better than that...Yes, a Battleship should only be counterable by another Battleship or something larger in solo combat.


Why? Because it is OMG..a BATTLESHIP? It is just a shipclass.

And there are multiple other cruisers which can kill battleships solo, the vagabond or the ishtar come into mind.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.08.11 11:45:00 - [1614]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Come on mate you know better than that...Yes, a Battleship should only be counterable by another Battleship or something larger in solo combat.


Why? Because it is OMG..a BATTLESHIP? It is just a shipclass.

And there are multiple other cruisers which can kill battleships solo, the vagabond or the ishtar come into mind.
In short - yes.

It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is. Lone Battleships are still vulnerable to smaller classes, just you need to (well, duh) bring more than one and fight with coordination.

And I'm talking in general terms here, not some nub in a Battleship, not some highly-strung setup with huge drawbacks (fleet sniper anyone?), just a general purpose all-round-balanced-setup Battleship flown by a competent pilot - it should not be even a moderately difficult task to take on, it should be bloody difficult if not damn near suicidal in something that, at the end of the day, is simply a cruiser.

Sure other cruisers can kill a Battleship solo, but generally it required that, it be a specific flawed setup, a noob pilot or someone making a huge mistake. The Curse simply had it too easy (disabling turrets/capacitor and speed tanking) - now it doesn't.

Oh noes!...the sky is falling...

(or not, if you just bring a buddy along in say a Zealot, or maybe even a Sacrilege for the whole *go go! team khanid!!* thing...)

Luna Nilaya
Blood Works Inc.
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2007.08.11 15:10:00 - [1615]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade

Sure other cruisers can kill a Battleship solo, but generally it required that, it be a specific flawed setup, a noob pilot or someone making a huge mistake. The Curse simply had it too easy (disabling turrets/capacitor and speed tanking) - now it doesn't.



Yes, now(in the near future) it will simply suck.

Xyton Zatnox
Aku Soku Zan
Posted - 2007.08.11 17:05:00 - [1616]
 

Don't bring this bull.sh.it patch to tranquility. There are many possible solutions to NOS, this solution sucks balls... Which dev offered this solution?

Kaben
Posted - 2007.08.11 17:16:00 - [1617]
 

Edited by: Kaben on 11/08/2007 17:38:52
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Kaben
anti-support support, this doesn't mean, bs killer of doom, maybe a 4 week old noob bs pilot, but a pilot who has spec'd in bs's, ummm, no. Better bring some backup for that one,...


So a BS can be only countered by other BS and can also counter a numerous amount of other ships but if other ships can do the same it is "wrong"? Yeah, right.

Come on mate you know better than that...Yes, a Battleship should only be counterable by another Battleship or something larger in solo combat.

Team that Curse up with say a Zealot and you have a good fight on your hands vs. a solo (not some noob NPC'er) Battleship.


This was exactly my point, solo vs a player who has spec'd bs, you should have one hell of a fight on your hands. bring a friend or two and yeah, bs pilot should start sweating. But I guess the way this person talks Gabriel, me and many other bs spec'd pilots who have spent a year or more specializing our bs should join the bandwagon of all these "twink" flying ships and ask for ccp to reimberse our skills and invest them into something more foremidable on the battlefield, like a t2 cruiser, but we don't, cause when you fly "twink" you should already have the idea in your head the blunt end of the stick is gonna swing your way sooner or later.

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2007.08.11 20:55:00 - [1618]
 

Originally by: Xyton Zatnox
Don't bring this bull.sh.it patch to tranquility. There are many possible solutions to NOS, this solution sucks balls... Which dev offered this solution?


Its not like CCP reads through the forums esp on a 54 page post; let alone actually listen to the community and reconsider the changes. They will implement the Nos changes no matter what anyone says sadly.

I've been considering playing another game now that after this patch my charecter can only fly 1/2 of the ships it could once fly. Even with 3 NOS on my Abaddon the guns outdid the NOS so whats the point now if NOs wont allow me to steal cap 100% of the time most Amarr Laser ships will be at a disadvantage vs all the other races that didnt relaly need cap anyways to shoot. The Curse and Pilgrim will suck and those were 2 of the only ships that were worth flying.

I wish CCP would reconsider the NOS changes and find a better way. There are so many alternatives its rediculous.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.11 22:33:00 - [1619]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is.


Exept it isn't. A dreadnaught is also a shipclass up from a BS and cannot really do anything vs them.

Ship are not balanced in eve by "the higher you get the bigger the solopwnpower becomes". All ships are more or less specialists with certain strengths and certain weaknesses.

Kaben
Posted - 2007.08.11 23:09:00 - [1620]
 

Edited by: Kaben on 11/08/2007 23:13:51
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
It's two ship classes up, that's just the way it is.


Exept it isn't. A dreadnaught is also a shipclass up from a BS and cannot really do anything vs them.

Ship are not balanced in eve by "the higher you get the bigger the solopwnpower becomes". All ships are more or less specialists with certain strengths and certain weaknesses.


So a friend of mine, who is spec'd amarr bs, yes I mean spec'd, he has rank 5 bs, 7mil sp in gunnery, alot in mechanics, armageddon tanked out got shot at by a phoenix, one volley and he had 2/3rds of his armor left. Guess he just got unlucky right? good thing he was close to a station before the second volley hit, although loosing a geddon isn't really to big of a loss, but the point is there. Did he have his tank on, no, but he was thinking the same thing you are, dreadnoughts shouldn't do that much damage to a bs, good lesson that was well learned.

Unless you mean a dread in seige mode, though I don't see why a dread would go into seige mode for bs's, unless they hads sensor damps.


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