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Long Fang
Amarr
CCCP INC
Posted - 2007.08.05 15:18:00 - [1471]
 

Originally by: Borasao
Originally by: Long Fang
Originally by: Shadowsword


A standard Curse will remain a superb EW/general support platform, to have around in small gangs or fleets


Except now it can't fill its role as its not getting any boost to its NOS which is the entire point of the ship. As an EW boat it is only effective against turrets which many ships don't use, as an EW platform it is surpassed by both the Arazu and Rook which can effect ALL ships.


If you read really close and carefully, you'll see the bonus is to both NOS and NEUTs... not just NOS... and, last time I looked, NEUTs work against ALL ships.


No i didn;t notice anything that blindingly obvious Rolling Eyes

The point is with NOS the curse can damage its enemies and tank, with neut's this is not the case.
As far as working against all ships if you read really close and carefully you'll see that that comment was directly related to ew, and specifically how the curse is not an effective EW boat as it has a limited set of targets that it is effective against.

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.08.05 15:24:00 - [1472]
 

Originally by: zero2espect
ah i see still nothing from any of the "experts" on how any amarr ship benefits from this change. apart from having to run lower cap (no repair or shooting) than a target (who doesn't need cap to do anything but scram)

just checking.

will go back to lurking.

hint ladies and gents: forget all the focus on the pilgrim/curse (just understand that they are completely broken by this change). start examining your other ship setups and see what a difference it makes.

in quickfit or whatever, do a cap simulation on your standard zealot, prophecy, absolution, maller, harbringer, arbitrator, whatever. do it without the nos (and without anything else in the slot apart from a. empty or b. neut) - try to find a fitting that works - i cant. simulate yourself against a minmatar ship. then do a combat simulation and see how the damages, resists, times stack up.

if your results come out like mine, you'll apply for the beta to another game like i have.

it always bothers me when u have minmatar and gallente pilots telling us "no amarr is not broken by these changes". it also worries me when someone says everythings fine but they haven't even droppend amarr cruiser 5 yet.

and like i'm going to believe the developer who promises that obviously something will have to be done to the curse/pilgrim on the back of these changes when these changes, plus then ean2 debarkle, were supposed to be buffs for our race in the first place.....for 2 big changes (ean2 and nos) that are marketed at buffs for amarr they smell mightly like nerfs for nos domis/myrmies that just happens to break amarr worse.


Do you agree that the NOS was used better against amarr then for it?

Then with these changes NOS as a wpn against Amarr will be severly reduced to ashes.
NOS for amarr is also reduced but will still work in many cases to help you keep cap up at cost of your enemy.

Also Amarr doesnt have to worry about NEUTs as much as NOS since they are not as powerful and FIT best on amarr ships.

Capless wpns and tanks had an advantage against NOS before, and will still have that. However you can nos a passivtanker since hes not wasting cap you can use it to some advantage instead and perhaps kill his recharge 30% wich in the hardcore passive tanks isnt hard and if he has active hardeners wich most does hell have less resist after awhile.



Im not trying to say this is the amarr buff, but when ppl come in and say this will hurt Amarr more then others i believe they are wrong. Perhaps the experst you speak of can correct me if im wrong, im sure am no expert.
Didnt CCP say that this wasnt the LASER or Amarr fix? i also though amarr wouldnt get a single patch to improve them but they would try to boost em abit at the time?

Im just using my common sense here wich tells me Amarr isnt getting the short stick with the new NOS, sure there NOS doesnt work 100% for them anymore (althou still more often then others if they are so CAP hungry) but it wont for your enemie either, and some of the enemies ship will have severly reduced effect now (droneboats) and your CAP will be safer.
(excluding the curse/pilgrim here ppl since where talking about the general amarr fleet. I dont have much to add to curse/pilgrim. I believe most have proved alot that its getting the short stick).

Im probably have missed something and if i have that argues that amarr fleet actually hurts from the NOS above others then please enlighten me.

IamBen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:17:00 - [1473]
 

Its not a bad change, but the pilgrim/curse need a role change now. The curse/pilgrim is now completely useless with these changes. If another ship cant be shut down by a pilgrim that its just an expensive toy thats going to die everytime to a battleship or anything else.

IamBen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:20:00 - [1474]
 

Also, please dont force ships to be close range. Especially speed ships like the malediction and heretic. Nobody is stupid enough to come close with ceptors/interdictors. I dont know which person thought that up, but when you think about it, its REALLY stupid.

Argen Tano
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:21:00 - [1475]
 

Edited by: Argen Tano on 05/08/2007 17:22:06
You're right. Amarr isn't hurt more than others. Except for the fact that we _have_ to use nos and/or cap injectors (wich takes away a mid slot, from the race with the fewest mid slots) to compensate for broken lasers. And many amarr ships have a spare hi-slot. What would you have us put in that slot now? Neut? Not realy an option, due to obvious cap problems from broken lasers. Smartbomb? Same issue, cap cap cap.

So continue with the NOS you say? Seeing as we're always so low on cap, they should work right? Wrong! Defeating an amarr ship will be as simple as draining your own cap to a point (20-30%?), either using a neut yourself, or simply leave your reppers/boosters on. Only race that will have some difficulties with this, is galante. But at 0 cap, they're still better of than amarr, because of drones.

And this is not even adding the obvious, that it's complety ruining the curse, pilgrim and bhaal.

In all honesty. If this change is to go through. I think all amarr ships should be given an extra mid-slot, and the pg/cpu of a cap injector. Our ships may aswel come with the cap injector equipped right of market.

Can we have some more cargo space aswel then please?

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:38:00 - [1476]
 

Originally by: Argen Tano
Edited by: Argen Tano on 05/08/2007 17:22:06
You're right. Amarr isn't hurt more than others. Except for the fact that we _have_ to use nos and/or cap injectors (wich takes away a mid slot, from the race with the fewest mid slots) to compensate for broken lasers. And many amarr ships have a spare hi-slot. What would you have us put in that slot now? Neut? Not realy an option, due to obvious cap problems from broken lasers. Smartbomb? Same issue, cap cap cap.

So continue with the NOS you say? Seeing as we're always so low on cap, they should work right? Wrong! Defeating an amarr ship will be as simple as draining your own cap to a point (20-30%?), either using a neut yourself, or simply leave your reppers/boosters on. Only race that will have some difficulties with this, is galante. But at 0 cap, they're still better of than amarr, because of drones.

And this is not even adding the obvious, that it's complety ruining the curse, pilgrim and bhaal.

In all honesty. If this change is to go through. I think all amarr ships should be given an extra mid-slot, and the pg/cpu of a cap injector. Our ships may aswel come with the cap injector equipped right of market.

Can we have some more cargo space aswel then please?


Now you said a amarr ship HAS to have a nos and it also often have a slot for it. Good.
Now not many ships can put on Neutralizers with guns as they do with NOS today.
Not all ship, in fact very few can waste cap and function good without it.

Leave reppers and Booster on you say.. well good grief what should the ship do when its under 30% or lower.. it wont be able to tank **** anymore.. and what did it gain.. the amarr ship 1 or 2 nos doesnt work for it while you lost your whole tank?

I see the theory but do you really think there is a ship out there that would GAIN by killing its cap to make sure 1-2 NOS on its enemy ship doesnt work?

Ok so say there are ships that can effectively do this (i assume a shield tanked something has good proporties for it) Its not like hell automaticly win the figth with this daring tactic... I mean you still have your Cap and Cap recharge while he lost his to continue for probably far longer then he can tank with what he got left.

If a ships drain itself to under 30% your laser DPS even without the 1-2 nos running will cut him to pieces since he cant tank at all with no cap to use and no cap regen to speak of.

So it doesnt make amarr ships allpowerful, still they get advantages. And they dont have to worry about their NOS being outdone by 4-5racked NOS and stipet to parts by each and every NOSpilot.

Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:38:00 - [1477]
 

Originally by: CCP Fendahl
Anathema (Covert Ops)
Hardpoints: 2 launchers (+1), 1 turret (-1)


Seriously? Why?

I don't understand for the life of me why any of the cov-ops frigates get any weapons bonuses at all? You look at it... 2 high slots, and 2 primary high slot items required to even make a cov ops worth flying (anyone who fits 2 weapons is just asking to loose it almost instantly to pretty much anything with a Civilian gun or larger) those being your cloak and your scan/recon probe launcher.

If these frail little mayflies were ever expected to use a gun/drone/missile then they'd be, well, NOT covert ops, they'd be recon frigs.

CCP, why not use a little common sense and remove the weapon bonuses & hardpoints on these things... or add 3 hardpoints per each race's design and make them capable of doing more than sitting there watching/FRAPSing?

Tackle?
Yeah, they can be used for that (i've used 'em that way)... so put the bonuses there, not to their unused high slots.

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:40:00 - [1478]
 

Originally by: IamBen
Also, please dont force ships to be close range. Especially speed ships like the malediction and heretic. Nobody is stupid enough to come close with ceptors/interdictors. I dont know which person thought that up, but when you think about it, its REALLY stupid.


Agree. every speedtank pilot try to be outer webrange. Force them to be under webrange is almost so stupid as the nosnerf for the amarr recons.
Good work again :(

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2007.08.05 17:49:00 - [1479]
 

Originally by: IamBen
Also, please dont force ships to be close range. Especially speed ships like the malediction and heretic. Nobody is stupid enough to come close with ceptors/interdictors. I dont know which person thought that up, but when you think about it, its REALLY stupid.


Heretic now becomes a slow Flycatcher with a tank, and since a good pilot in a Flycatcher using rockets can tap someone out to 40+km with javelins, 16+ with rage, & 12+ with standard rockets I'd hardly call that 'close' range. Add in a few rigs & implants and those numbers can increase amazingly, but not outside the cone of 'typical' engagements (60+/javelin). And this is with rockets. Imagine what light missiles can do.

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.08.05 18:22:00 - [1480]
 

Edited by: ***er on 05/08/2007 18:24:15
Originally by: IamBen
Also, please dont force ships to be close range. Especially speed ships like the malediction and heretic. Nobody is stupid enough to come close with ceptors/interdictors. I dont know which person thought that up, but when you think about it, its REALLY stupid.


well... The sacri doesnt look like its meant for speed tank. Its meant for armor tank closerange.

Think of it as a blasterboat with better tank and lesser dmg?

If you want longrange bonus to it, its gonna be 5% to heavy missile EM dmg, instead of 5% All HAM missile dmg.

would you trade those bonuses?
I mean you can fit long range missies on it and shoot therm/kin/expl almost as good as if you decide to give it a long range bonus...

If it got reduced dmg bonus but the bonus given to all Heavy missies you still got the fact that fitting Heavy missiles on this will be very hard anyway, so all youll be really doing is gimping its closerange ability as a blaster-missie-boat and hardly increasing its range capabilities anyway...

Just a thought..

This is ofcourse only about the Sacri.
I dont want to say to much about the smaller ships couse frankly i dont have much of a clue about em, i just enjoy flying fast sometimes.

But not everyone and there mother will be fitting NEUTs and NOS wont stop small ships anymore.
Not everyone has midslots to fit Webs.. especially ships that want to stick out of webrange or even scram range.
And since everyone knows that inties will be outside web they dont fit it to counter it even when they in some extreem cases do have a midslot over...
But there are probably still to many webs out there that its still a major worry..

Well since every singel interceptor fears the webrange so much i accept, since i know not better, that it is true and it is 100% riddiculus.

MirrorGod
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.08.05 18:25:00 - [1481]
 

Edited by: MirrorGod on 05/08/2007 18:25:25
It's nice on paper but unless Nos is stlill broken on the test server, it's absolutely FUBAR in application. Made of fail and sadness. Make it stop.

Zorok
Cosmic Cimmerians
Usurper.
Posted - 2007.08.05 19:07:00 - [1482]
 

It would be nice if a CCP rep could at least comment on all these feedback we have given. I would like to know that they realize that this change has concerned a great deal of the Eve community at this point- more so than any other proposed change in the past. At the time of this writing, we're already up to 50 pages of comments. I have one more idea about the NOS- one that will make it a valuable tool throughout a battle. How about instead of the NOS ceasing to function when both ships caps are equal, the NOS goes into a reduced function mode where it can only drain half of the energy it could before until the defender's cap rises above that of the attacker. The beauty of this is that ships like the Curse that get bonuses to this module won't suffer and ships that don't have bonuses won't be able to NOS the opponent to death. But they will still be able to pull cap to at least add some power to their ship. Anyone else like this idea?
-Zorok

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2007.08.05 19:34:00 - [1483]
 

could work as well...
but then, any idea is better than what CCP has in mind....

Zorok
Cosmic Cimmerians
Usurper.
Posted - 2007.08.05 19:38:00 - [1484]
 

hahah agreed!

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.08.05 20:53:00 - [1485]
 

Originally by: Zorok
It would be nice if a CCP rep could at least comment on all these feedback we have given. I would like to know that they realize that this change has concerned a great deal of the Eve community at this point- more so than any other proposed change in the past. At the time of this writing, we're already up to 50 pages of comments.


They did answer, look posts 970 or so.

Zorok
Cosmic Cimmerians
Usurper.
Posted - 2007.08.05 21:45:00 - [1486]
 

Ahh yes thank you. It appears the devs are adamant about forcing these changes on the community. They don't appear swayed by the outcry. I see the one difference in what I believed about how the nos would work under their proposal is that the nos approaches diminishing gains as you and the nosed target approach the same cap % which is worse than I thought.
If they want to use diminishing gains then they shouldn't base it on the nosing ships cap. They could make diminishing gains come into effect as you drain them down to 0 cap but make it so that even a battleship with 5 large nos couldn't suck more than 80% of a small ships cap. I'm afraid that the nos won't even work defensively if they implement this idea. The problem is that ships that lack space in their mid slots that relied on the high slots for power will now be at a disadvantage. These changes will only make Minmatar and Caldari the flavor of the day.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.05 22:05:00 - [1487]
 

Wall of text

2-3 paragraphs make it far easier to read. WinkRazz

Wesley Harding
Posted - 2007.08.05 22:36:00 - [1488]
 

Fix the Impel please? More resists or cap bonii, the repair rate ones aren't very good.

xaja
Posted - 2007.08.06 01:07:00 - [1489]
 

Khanid ships:

I don't mind missile skills, as Amarr, I was forced early on to train everything but Amarr ships to be able to play effectively...


At the very least, CCP, if you change existing ships to where suddenly they use an entirely different weapon system:

do some SQL command that detects laser related rigs, like energy collision rigs etc, remove them from Khanid ships at patch time and place them in people's hangars!


or convert them in the missile equivalent... adapting to changes is one thing... loosing your stuff is another: rigs are too much effort and isk to get, to just have them ripped off.

galphi
Gallente
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2007.08.06 01:37:00 - [1490]
 

Edited by: galphi on 06/08/2007 01:52:21
The Heretic is really improved by these changes. The rocket barrage is freaking deadly, and the range and explosion speed boosts are very useful too. At first I thought the lack of the 25% armour resist bonus might hurt it up close, but it actually doesn't need it with all that speed, and it can generally stay outside webifier range too. Nine thumbs up! Very Happy

As for the Curse/Pilgrim, they're definetly weaker (as was intended, apparently), and are reduced to support ships, instead of being main tankers/pwners. 2 neuts + 2 nos seems to be the ideal setup, but naturally you can't take a lot of damage like this. Yeah... pretty vulnerable ships now actually.

Malediction is a great little inty now, tough as nails! Not sure about having to get in webifier range to actually deal damage though. Still, it survives close encounters better than others.

Kamel
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.08.06 01:59:00 - [1491]
 

Been playing eve since retail, my char had been fully trained to use amarr ships and now sudently i will find out what i cant fly half of the amarr ships T2.

I cant realy understand why a race what is focused using lasers can have so much ships swiched to use only misiles. The sacrilege was a such good ship like it was, why now cant have any turret on, what about the ppl who trained the M spec lasers skills at 5?

In my opinion is just because so many eve players have trained to play caldari ships and CCP is giving them a chance to fly a diferent race ships by keeping their misile skills on it.

I would like to see what would happend if a couple of caldari T2 ships would been swiched to full turret spec instead of misile. Prety sure the comunity wouldnt find that changes so lovely.


YetAnotherTradeAlt
Posted - 2007.08.06 02:32:00 - [1492]
 

Edited by: YetAnotherTradeAlt on 06/08/2007 09:36:26
I am gonna get flamed for this. . . Which is why I'm alt posting.

Here's an idea, redo the Pilgrim entirely, changing its focus from nos/neut to TDs. leave its T1 bonuses as they are but give it a T2 bonus of the cloak fitting and 25% to TD optimal per level. Up its max lock range etc. of course.

Max skills with Balmers nets you a range of 48*1.25*2.25=135km, plus falloff of 30km. Now, add two T1 ECM range rigs and you've got an optimal of 194.4km T2 ECM rigs, 210.9km. 70% penalty to optimal will really ruin a sniper BS' day, and rigged you're well in range of Megas, Hyperions, Tempests, Maelstroms, Abaddons, Apocs, and Armageddons. Falloff gives you some chance of even getting one of those 250km Rokhs. The 180km snipers go to about 60km and the 250km Rokh to 75, assuming your TD takes.

It loses almost all solo ability, but it becomes equal to the Rook if not surpassing it in a fleet warfare role.

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2007.08.06 03:22:00 - [1493]
 

Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 06/08/2007 03:24:17
Alright, I assume people have run the numbers themselves, but no ones posted em here.

Max DPS for the New and Old Sac

Assumes all skills maxed, 1 Damage Mod, and T2 gear. Drones are not included, as they are the same on both.

Old Sac

4x Heavy Pulse II, 2x HAML II, 1 Heat Sink II, using Conflagration M and Rage HAMs

DM for HPII: 3.6(Base)*1.25 (HAC V)*1.25 (M Laser Turret V)*1.15 (Surgical V)*1.1 (Pulse Spec V)*1.1 (Heat Sink II) = 7.827

RoF for HPII: 5.25 * 0.9 (Guns V) * 0.8(Rapid V) * 0.895(HSII) = 3.3831

DPS for all 4 HPIIs: 259.1 DPS, Alpha of 876

HAML II
Damage per Rage HAM: 120(Base) * 1.25(HAM V) *1.1 (Warhead Upgrades V) = 165
RoF: 6.4(Base) * 0.9(ML Ops V) * 0.85(Rapid V) *0.9(HAM Spec V) = 4.896

2x HAM DPS: 67.4, Alpha of 330

Total DPS (Old): 326.5 DPS
Total Alpha (Old): 1,206

New Sac

5x HAML II, 1x BCU II, Rage HAM

Damage per Rage HAM:
120 * 1.25(HAM V) * 1.1(Warhead Upgrades V) * 1.25 (Cruiser V) * 1.1 (BCU II) = 226.9

RoF
6.4 * 0.9 (ML Ops V) * 0.85 (Rapid V) * 0.895 (BCU II) * 0.9 (HAM Spec V) * 0.75 (HAC V) = 2.958 seconds

DPS from 5 HAM II w/ Rage: 383.5 DPS
Alpha: 1134.4

DPS from 5 HAM II w/ Navy HAMs: 367.5 DPS,
Alpha: 1087.1

Not bad for a 'nerf' eh? Gains 15% more DPS and damage types switchable on demand, but loses a lot of range. Still, HAMs have better range than cruiser blasters with skills, assuming they aren't using Null.

Now, add 50% its cargohold to allow for more HAM spammage.

Phaedruss
Rat Katchers inc.
Posted - 2007.08.06 04:03:00 - [1494]
 

Edited by: Phaedruss on 06/08/2007 04:07:12
Originally by: galphi

Malediction is a great little inty now, tough as nails! Not sure about having to get in webifier range to actually deal damage though. Still, it survives close encounters better than others.


Giving the malediction a missile system focus, or at least moving away from the split system was a good move, but I think you'll find the malediction will be utterly broken with the new changes. The rocket damage is all well and good but you can't damage what you can't hit. It's not just the range issue with it, the lack of a missile velocity bonus is crippling to a ship pretty much limited to rockets.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2007.08.06 07:33:00 - [1495]
 

Originally by: Kamel
Been playing eve since retail, my char had been fully trained to use amarr ships and now sudently i will find out what i cant fly half of the amarr ships T2.

I cant realy understand why a race what is focused using lasers can have so much ships swiched to use only misiles. The sacrilege was a such good ship like it was, why now cant have any turret on, what about the ppl who trained the M spec lasers skills at 5?

In my opinion is just because so many eve players have trained to play caldari ships and CCP is giving them a chance to fly a diferent race ships by keeping their misile skills on it.

I would like to see what would happend if a couple of caldari T2 ships would been swiched to full turret spec instead of misile. Prety sure the comunity wouldnt find that changes so lovely.




signed..

And that would never happen as probably CCP are mostly Caldari.. The whole khanid sucks big time.. Just redo the freaking backstory..

Irish Duff
Blackwater USA Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.06 07:41:00 - [1496]
 

Vengence : Nice change no more needs to be done here, tight fitting wise but good weapon system layout.

Sacrilidge : Again nice changes makes a big difference wit 1 weapon system.

Anathema\Heretic : Anathema didnt really need change but is good anyways\Heretic can acyually do some decent damage now.

Damnation : Tbh as an amarr player i believe this needs to loose 1 low and get an extra missile hardpoint and + 25 cpu. With the current changes its tank is still great but damage sucks compared to eos\claymore and vulture. Adding another missile hardpoint and removing a low will balance between uber gank + tank (limiting bcu slots)

Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.08.06 08:16:00 - [1497]
 

Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
Not bad for a 'nerf' eh? Gains 15% more DPS and damage types switchable on demand, but loses a lot of range. Still, HAMs have better range than cruiser blasters with skills, assuming they aren't using Null.


You gain range actually.

With conflag you'll have an optimal of 11.25 which is about the same as the max rage HAM range (although you are there in the end better off using navy ammo, the cap recharge penality is not worth the extra dps), with scorch you'll have an 33.75k optimal while jav HAMs reach till 60k.

Also, you do not need any cap to do this dps and get on top of that a cap recharge bonus from the ship.
Rage HAMs reduce this, but even with those you'll still have with the capuse bonus 85% of the current caprecharge. And I doubt that 4 HP2 will use only 15% of that.

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.06 08:21:00 - [1498]
 

Originally by: DUFFMANX
Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.


Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?

I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.

Irish Duff
Blackwater USA Inc.
Posted - 2007.08.06 08:35:00 - [1499]
 

Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: DUFFMANX
Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.


Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?

I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.


Personally i used to fly around using speed setup wit dual light beams and 1 point for range for tackle. Thats the most u could honestly get from it now with the upcoming changes u can either go with the bonus and fit rockets or u can fit standard launchers.

If u use standards obviously u dont get the 5% bonus to rockets but u get a nice long range missile spamming ceptor almost comparable to the crow. On the other hand if u use rockets u get awesoime close range dps but at close range 1 web and ur pretty much toast.

The idea of removing the utility highslot and adding a low means u can still vary between close or long range weaponary. But if u decide on sticking on cose range for the added bonus the low slots will give u a bit more o play with in terms or more armor or wotever u pref on that slot.

Example : 3 rl2, mwd2, web, scram, small rep, 200mm plate, adaptive nano plating, 2 overdrives or 1 od and 1 nano

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2007.08.06 08:59:00 - [1500]
 

Originally by: DUFFMANX
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: DUFFMANX
Malediction : Tbh i think this poor ceptor got shafted. Close range weapon sysem wit paper thin armor, i would propose that the utility highslot be removed and a low slot added with -9pg and -17 cpu. This will make it more balanced i believe and make people think bout new interesting ceptor setups.


Just a question, but what non close range weapons has the Malediction ever fit?

I'm still stoked about the Malediction 2.0, even after a week to mull it over. I cant even force myself to play on TQ, even with my skills being a month behind I prefer my SiSi setup.


Personally i used to fly around using speed setup wit dual light beams and 1 point for range for tackle. Thats the most u could honestly get from it now with the upcoming changes u can either go with the bonus and fit rockets or u can fit standard launchers.

If u use standards obviously u dont get the 5% bonus to rockets but u get a nice long range missile spamming ceptor almost comparable to the crow. On the other hand if u use rockets u get awesoime close range dps but at close range 1 web and ur pretty much toast.

The idea of removing the utility highslot and adding a low means u can still vary between close or long range weaponary. But if u decide on sticking on cose range for the added bonus the low slots will give u a bit more o play with in terms or more armor or wotever u pref on that slot.

Example : 3 rl2, mwd2, web, scram, small rep, 200mm plate, adaptive nano plating, 2 overdrives or 1 od and 1 nano



Reasonable, I definitely wouldnt argue against a 4th lowslot. I was just curious about the range comment because the 'sader has always had that niche' pretty much locked down. With the resist bonus and the rocket focus I'm not really afraid of web range like most people seem to be.

3x rocket II's - and if i can find the fitting for it a small nos
mwd/web/scram
DCII(or ENAM2 depending on skills)/ODII(or nano if not using polycarbons)/200mm RT(Credit to Cmdr Sy)
2x Polycarbon rigs(optional)

Super cheap sans rigs. Goes 4.7km/s without them, 6.3 with. Which is plenty fast for tackling, and even for catching non faction/snake ints(which we have the sader for).

If I suddenly got an extra low, sweet. Regardless, and I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with my spec, I think the new 'diction is concentrated win painted green.


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